Need help and advice about returning to school

[okyeah]

I just don't understand why Fresh Start is so important to you when you can likely accomplish the same goal in less years with coursework more representative of medical school in a postbac/SMP. Right now you want to go to Texas, wait forever, and do a whoooole other 4-year degree. You seem like you have your mind made up, and I understand wanting to start over, but you'll get to start over in med school! And you'll get there by doing a postbac and/or SMP. Your GPA is bad and needs repair, but it's not dismal - you can do GPA repair and be successful. Don't waste your time waiting, uprooting your life to move to Texas, and pursuing another bachelors when you don't have to do that.

Mostly for the safety of that path and money from my current job which I would be sacrificing if I took the masters route I guess.

Like if I failed a masters right now or even did average - it would devastate my entire life. $50-75k debt after leaving a great job I just started would pretty much end me.

Yes I really want to do a masters and just get on with it. But part of me thinks I’m going to fail and screw it all up. Part of me thinks if I just take some extra time to gain experience with CNA and volunteering it would make an airtight application. And redo undergrad and get a solid grasp on studying to score a high mcat too.

Edit: also I don’t really have a life here. Everyone I know moved and I can’t make any new friends in the area.

Am I wrong by thinking about it this way? I got like $35k of debt right now from undergrad and credit. Maybe I’m confused as to what’s going to happen if I fail? I’m just worried because I realized my B.S. was pretty useless when I graduated so that left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

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[Bonne Nuit]

Mostly for the safety of that path and money from my current job which I would be sacrificing if I took the masters route I guess.

Like if I failed a masters right now or even did average - it would devastate my entire life. $50-75k debt after leaving a great job I just started would pretty much end me.

Yes I really want to do a masters and just get on with it. But part of me thinks I’m going to fail and screw it all up. Part of me thinks if I just take some extra time to gain experience with CNA and volunteering it would make an airtight application. And redo undergrad and get a solid grasp on studying to score a high mcat too.

Edit: also I don’t really have a life here. Everyone I know moved and I can’t make any new friends in the area.

Am I wrong by thinking about it this way? I got like $35k of debt right now from undergrad and credit. Maybe I’m confused as to what’s going to happen if I fail? I’m just worried because I realized my B.S. was pretty useless when I graduated so that left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I do not want to be mean or inconsiderate, but it is becoming seriously difficult to communicate with you because you are so hyperfocused on a plan that doesn't make a lot of sense to the rest of us. It's really not a good use of time to keep entertaining your (several years in the future) scheme about Texas when you haven't even shadowed or gained any clinical experience yet. You're putting the cart way, way, way before the horse.

I think you need to go shadow a medical doctor for a few weeks, gain a few months of clinical experience, then come back and tell us what you think about all of it. It will be easier to discuss possible educational pathways with you once you've done this and you are able to have an informed conversation about why you want to pursue medicine.

Incidentally, clinical experience + volunteering does not in any way make for an "airtight" application - these are just bare minimum ECs that every single competitive applicant is expected to have. Some of the assumptions about medical school applications that you've communicated in this thread are giving me pause about your actual understanding of the application process. As you consider your future, I strongly encourage you to do a lot more research about how the nontrads that have come before you have built successful applications.

 

[deleted771945]

I would just do a formal, undergraduate level post-bac + 1 or 2 more semesters as needed. Take the MCAT the summer in between. Then apply strategically (MD and DO) in 2 years time.

 

[okyeah]

I do not want to be mean or inconsiderate, but it is becoming seriously difficult to communicate with you because you are so hyperfocused on a plan that doesn't make a lot of sense to the rest of us. It's really not a good use of time to keep entertaining your (several years in the future) scheme about Texas when you haven't even shadowed or gained any clinical experience yet. You're putting the cart way, way, way before the horse.

I think you need to go shadow a medical doctor for a few weeks, gain a few months of clinical experience, then come back and tell us what you think about all of it. It will be easier to discuss possible educational pathways with you once you've done this and you are able to have an informed conversation about why you want to pursue medicine.

Incidentally, clinical experience + volunteering does not in any way make for an "airtight" application - these are just bare minimum ECs that every single competitive applicant is expected to have. Some of the assumptions about medical school applications that you've communicated in this thread are giving me pause about your actual understanding of the application process. As you consider your future, I strongly encourage you to do a lot more research about how the nontrads that have come before you have built successful applications.

Fair enough. I’m just starting from scratch besides my degree. So I pretty much have no ECs or leadership or research.

Edit: or letters of rec. I’m guessing I don’t have a clear idea on how long these would take to accomplish and add on. Maybe it’s easier to do than I’m imagining.

But yeah either way I’ll setup shadowing asap.

 

[okyeah]

I would just do a formal, undergraduate level post-bac + 1 or 2 more semesters as needed. Take the MCAT the summer in between. Then apply strategically (MD and DO) in 2 years time.

I have no letters of rec so I guess I’d have to take some college classes and ace them first to progress to that next. Also curious if I’d have to quit my job for this. I’m guessing I would.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I have no letters of rec so I guess I’d have to take some college classes and ace them first to progress to that next. Also curious if I’d have to quit my job for this. I’m guessing I would.

Fair enough. I’m just starting from scratch besides my degree. So I pretty much have no ECs or leadership or research.

Edit: or letters of rec. I’m guessing I don’t have a clear idea on how long these would take to accomplish and add on. Maybe it’s easier to do than I’m imagining.

But yeah either way I’ll setup shadowing asap.

LoRs will not be hard to get when you’re back in school. Try as hard as you can in your classes, attend office hours, be friendly and engaged, make connections with your professors. If you find a professor you like, take as many classes with them as you can. Nontraditionals with work experience are usually pretty good at building these types of professional relationships.

 

[Shotapp]

I'm in favor of a diy post-bac. Fresh restart is a time sink and you lose more money (delaying potential physician salary) then you save if you go that route (even if Texas schools are cheaper). You're not mentally and academically ready for an SMP so I wouldn't recommend that either.

If I were in your shoes, I would take and get mostly As in 30-40 credit hours worth of upper level science classes, while volunteering/gaining clinical experience, get a solid MCAT score (easier said than done) and apply broadly to DO schools (faster path to becoming a physician).

 

[okyeah]

I'm in favor of a diy post-bac. Fresh restart is a time sink and you lose more money (delaying potential physician salary) then you save if you go that route (even if Texas schools are cheaper). You're not mentally and academically ready for an SMP so I wouldn't recommend that either.

If I were in your shoes, I would take and get mostly As in 30-40 credit hours worth of upper level science classes, while volunteering/gaining clinical experience, get a solid MCAT score (easier said than done) and apply broadly to DO schools (faster path to becoming a physician).

Yeah, I’m realizing how difficult it will be to get As if I jump back into higher science with being gone from school for 4 years. I have no idea how or what to review and focus on for material from earlier classes like chem and physics to make sure my base is okay. I’m guessing khan academy is not enough. Are there any resources you may recommend?
I actually still need to take organic chem I and II plus lab and biochem, so there’s about 13 SH of pre reqs that I know I gotta ace.

Edit: I also am guessing I have to quit my job to do this right? How does one pay for a diy post bacc?

 

[deleted367183]

Believe it or not, I actually like the ExamKrackers MCAT prep books for review. I think I have some pdfs hidden away—let me know if you have trouble finding them.

I wouldn’t quit your job just yet. It sounds dumb, but if you’re single, 2 classes a semester may be fine. I did it and it really cut into time with my boyfriend!!!

And you pay with Stafford Loans (I think now just called Direct Loans?). Register as a second degree student to become eligible.

 

[okyeah]

Believe it or not, I actually like the ExamKrackers MCAT prep books for review. I think I have some pdfs hidden away—let me know if you have trouble finding them.

I wouldn’t quit your job just yet. It sounds dumb, but if you’re single, 2 classes a semester may be fine. I did it and it really cut into time with my boyfriend!!!

And you pay with Stafford Loans (I think now just called Direct Loans?). Register as a second degree student to become eligible.

Thank you!! So if I just get the “chemistry manual” from examkrackers, that will give me a solid review up to organic chem? As well as organic chem itself I guess?

I’ll probably order the whole set. I’m just super worried that these 3rd party resources don’t focus on what’s important to the profs in my classes or something but maybe that’s just paranoia.

 

[deleted367183]

Thank you!! So if I just get the “chemistry manual” from examkrackers, that will give me a solid review up to organic chem? As well as organic chem itself I guess?

I’ll probably order the whole set. I’m just super worried that these 3rd party resources don’t focus on what’s important to the profs in my classes or something but maybe that’s just paranoia.

The organic book is particularly good.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

I totally understand it. The entry to my manufacturing career was absolutely brutal. It kinda whipped me into shape for any type of work ethic issues I had before. Also it has completely opened my eyes up to reality of work life.
The way I see things is that, either way it won't matter as long as I return and achieve extremely high marks. If I don't get into MD I can do DO. If I don't feel like either of those I can fall back on Physicians assistant or Pharmacy. I might be wrong though, am I? I'll be honest, I hate the area I live (I definitely do not belong here) and want to use this plan as a safe way to escape this place.

You have still not convinced me why you want to go into medicine. I have sat on the admissions committee when I was a medical student and you need to give a valid reason why you are willing to drop your life right now and pursue this massive undertaking. Telling me that you don't like where you live puts up a red flag that you do not really understand what you are entering.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

As you can see from my signature, I am as nontraditional as you can get. And in my humble opinion you are putting the cart WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before the horse. You are talking about grades, SMPs, moving to a new state, etc. But you never mentioned WHY you want to go into medicine right now? Do you really know what medicine is like right now??? Not even the medical students know what is happening.

I just finished working 12 our of the last 14 days and it is like a war zone. Even if the patient came in with something completely unrelated, they would be positive for COVID and the COVID unit is full. And those that did come in with COVID and needed an ICU, were intubated, paralyzed, and prone within a few hours and within days on dialysis. The average stay for a patient in respiratory failure due to COVID is at least 3 weeks in the ICU.

I would come home and drop into bed exhausted (lucking we have a tele-doc coverage at night) and not see my kids because it was not only late, but I had to be up at the ass crack of dawn to do it again. I am up to my hairline in debt and now I have two kids in college and we are getting laughed at when we ask for financial aid. You see, no one take into account MY debt, only my income. The stress is through the roof when there is a crashing patient in the ED and there is literally no where to put them and I have 3 boarders in the ICU and there is no where for them to go. Nurses are on their last rope and the attitudes are flying around. I don't know what it's like in the office but with people asking for tests, waiting to see their physician and there is a 3 month wait, adding a tele-doc component so now there are more people to see.

There are not enough nurses available to staff the number of patients so they are bringing in the national guard in some places but not others. Nurses leaving in droves to get more money as travelers and now there are no extra people available to cover when the units get overwhelmed. Medications are running out and it will take time to replenish and any day now they are going to tell you that we have to go back to using our masks for 1 week since there is a shortage again.

This is not meant to be discouraging but to be bluntly honest that you have not said one thing to convince me that this is what you are willing to not only give up an income for, but put yourself in $300,000-$400,000 in debt. My advise, get out there and see what it is really like. Not what the propaganda tells you and make an informed decision. If you do not, and you get into medical school and regret it you have not only put yourself in debt but you took a seat from someone who does not. And if you complete medical school and don't want to be a doctor then you have really shoved the pole up your anal sphincter when it comes to paying off a massive debt and potentially not have the income to cover it.

 

[okyeah]

As you can see from my signature, I am as nontraditional as you can get. And in my humble opinion you are putting the cart WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before the horse. You are talking about grades, SMPs, moving to a new state, etc. But you never mentioned WHY you want to go into medicine right now? Do you really know what medicine is like right now??? Not even the medical students know what is happening.

I just finished working 12 our of the last 14 days and it is like a war zone. Even if the patient came in with something completely unrelated, they would be positive for COVID and the COVID unit is full. And those that did come in with COVID and needed an ICU, were intubated, paralyzed, and prone within a few hours and within days on dialysis. The average stay for a patient in respiratory failure due to COVID is at least 3 weeks in the ICU.

I would come home and drop into bed exhausted (lucking we have a tele-doc coverage at night) and not see my kids because it was not only late, but I had to be up at the ass crack of dawn to do it again. I am up to my hairline in debt and now I have two kids in college and we are getting laughed at when we ask for financial aid. You see, no one take into account MY debt, only my income. The stress is through the roof when there is a crashing patient in the ED and there is literally no where to put them and I have 3 boarders in the ICU and there is no where for them to go. Nurses are on their last rope and the attitudes are flying around. I don't know what it's like in the office but with people asking for tests, waiting to see their physician and there is a 3 month wait, adding a tele-doc component so now there are more people to see.

There are not enough nurses available to staff the number of patients so they are bringing in the national guard in some places but not others. Nurses leaving in droves to get more money as travelers and now there are no extra people available to cover when the units get overwhelmed. Medications are running out and it will take time to replenish and any day now they are going to tell you that we have to go back to using our masks for 1 week since there is a shortage again.

This is not meant to be discouraging but to be bluntly honest that you have not said one thing to convince me that this is what you are willing to not only give up an income for, but put yourself in $300,000-$400,000 in debt. My advise, get out there and see what it is really like. Not what the propaganda tells you and make an informed decision. If you do not, and you get into medical school and regret it you have not only put yourself in debt but you took a seat from someone who does not. And if you complete medical school and don't want to be a doctor then you have really shoved the pole up your anal sphincter when it comes to paying off a massive debt and potentially not have the income to cover it.

I still have to wait to setup shadowing because I got COVID but I look forward to seeing what it’s like on the ground.
I just had an idea that I would like to help people, especially the ones with chronic pain, because my life was basically ruined when I hurt my back in college and I suffer from chronic pain right now and will forever (lumbar facet arthropathy). I empathize with people struggling with pain. So I’m sure it’s a little naive sounding to do this but seeing as I don’t see myself getting married or having much of a personal life ever in the future, I’ll spend my free time on school and changing careers. I’m going to take orgo I this fall to start off slow and test the waters.

 

[HAHAHA0483]

Bro stop sounding like a robot

“If not the hospital, then find a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. Medical school admissions committees want to see that you're compassionate for the vulnerable because this is a big demographic you'll be working with during and after medical school” like bro what if you’re doing it just because somebody said do it then you need help, they’re people they can tell if you’re truly compassionate or not lol

 

[esob]

So, just to throw my experience out there, I used AFS to wipe out old grades. For reference, w/o AFS, my GPA was ~3.5, my MCAT was 1 point above the median for accepted applicants my year. I applied out of state with my non AFS GPA and got lots of DO interviews including a couple acceptances. I got exactly zero out of state MD interviews despite applying broadly and to schools which, even with my GPA, I was at least above their 25th percentile for matriculants. I got I think 7+interviews to Texas MD schools and multiple acceptances with the exact same application with the exception that I had a 4.0 because of AFS. The caveat is, ofc, that many out of state MD schools are biased against granting interviews to Texas residents due to the fact that residents accepted to Texas schools rarely go OOS b/c of our low tuition. I'm also old as moses, so that probably factors in somewhere.

Anecdotally, I also went to UG w/ someone who pushed an app w/ a median MCAT and a ~ 3.0 and got either 1 or zero II's. I helped him invoke AFS and he took 1 class then reapplied w/ his new GPA. He got multiple II's and multiple acceptances.

That said, it's a very small sample set that we are working with for AFS but I would say in general the big picture for AFS is that if you have a subpar GPA, a decent mcat, and the ability to crush your new classes, it can make sense for some people, particularly if you are stuck on getting an MD vs a DO.

 

[Psychresy]

Hey everyone. I want to make this as brief as possible. I'm a 28 year old single guy. I completed an undergrad degree in Human Physiology in 2018 and my cumulative gpa was 3.19 with 124 semester hours. My science gpa is below a 3.0, maybe around a 2.7 or 2.8.

Since I graduated I have been bouncing around a few jobs and settled on working in manufacturing. I actually have a career in the company I'm currently in, but I am just thinking of using this as a way to save a lot of money to go back to school to become a doctor. I have a LOT of real life experience and soft skills that most people don't have entering medical school.

I want opinions on if my previous undergrad work will just hamstring me completely on this mission. I was planning to redo 4 years and hopefully just ace everything. My previous gpa was caused by several major problems in my life (quite a bit out of my control). If I got close to a 4.0 for a complete redo of undergrad - would you guys think I'd have a strong application? I want the cold hard truth! I'm not really doing it for the money, I think I belong in medicine and career fulfillment is important to me.

Almost 10 years ago I was in your shoes. My grades were actually a little worse. I questioned if I could actually do this but said F it, I'll regret never knowing. So I went back and took all the pre reqs at local community college. My "post bacc" gpa was a 3.9 and took about two years to complete. my mcat was average for a state MD school - good, not great.

Ultimately I ended up getting a lot of rejections but ended up getting an acceptance. Fast forward nearly ten years and here I am with the end of residency just 18 months away.

At the time, I felt old. Almost too old to do this. But the thing is you're going to be 38 one day. You can be 38 and working in manufacturing or you can be a 38 year old doctor. Saying it that way doesn't sound so old anymore.

IF you are ready to commit to 8-10 years of dedication, I say you absolutely go for it. It sounds cheesy as hell, but there are days I catch a reflection of myself at work and I still can't believe I did it. I feel immensely proud of myself probably for the first time in my life. You can have that too if you're committed to the effort required.

Best of luck.