NBME CBSE

[cementoenamel junction]

is the NBME CBSE exam that OMFS applicants take the same one the US MD Students take before the USMLE Step 1? If so, doesn't that skew the Scores?

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[DustFreeEraser]

Even if it were the same one that US MD students took and skewed accordingly, if everyone were skewed, is anyone actually skewed?

 

[cementoenamel junction]

Even if it were the same one that US MD students took and skewed accordingly, if everyone were skewed, is anyone actually skewed?

oooh good point, but I was more referring to since US MD students have already learned the content in-class on the CBSE exam, while [most] dental students haven't, wouldn't the results be skewed?

 

[DustFreeEraser]

OS schools only use CBSE when accepting dental students so everyone would be skewed the same, i.e. how MD students do on CBSE has zero impact on your chances at OS.

 

[deleted913442]

oooh good point, but I was more referring to since US MD students have already learned the content in-class on the CBSE exam, while [most] dental students haven't, wouldn't the results be skewed?

CBSE scores follow the MD bell-curve (they've been given the CBSE exams in the past that we take). Hence why average Step 1 score is a 232 and average CBSE for dental students is around a 165 (tougher for dental students in our situation).

 

[IOPEU]

CBSE for medical students is designed so that the mean is around 230-232 with standard deviation of 20.
Also CBSE for medical students is designed to yield a normal distribution (bell-curve)
When dental students (OMFS applicants) take CBSE (older version of CBSE as far as I know), they are graded as same method/curve as those medical students. Note that these scores from dental students do not get added to CBSE results from medical students. Basically two different populations.
The fact that dental students who take legit medical courses inevitably do better than those who don't get to take medical courses is evident in the mean (~165) and SD (~32). The overall mean is much lower than that of CBSE for medical students because obviously this test is for medical students who take medical courses. The standard deviation is much greater because some dental students will do as good as medical students (or even better) while many dental students will find this exam almost impossible at least in the beginning because of a lack of medical background.

 

[Big Easy OMFS]

The CBSE score is scaled to represent the predicted USMLE Step 1 score. However I doubt the medical school mean is 230-232 because it is used to asses their knowledge prior to Step 1, typically medical students take the exam before they start their dedicated thus we should expect a lower score for medical students then their USMLE Step 1 score

 

[Ivy.ch]

Yes, we use their curve. But you don’t need to attain their level scores to be competitive. If you score 70th medical percentile among medical students, that’ll put you in 99th percentile if OS applicants.

 

[deleted972255]

Yes, we use their curve. But you don’t need to attain their level scores to be competitive. If you score 70th medical percentile among medical students, that’ll put you in 99th percentile if OS applicants.

Speaking of percentiles, I have a question. Is an 80 considered really good on the CBSE still? The average seems to be around 55-57 with a SD of around 11.5-12 for every test. That would mean an 80 is 2 SDs from the mean, making it 97/98th percentile. That would mean very few people score 80+, but it seems like a lot of people are scoring that high, based on what I hear from people who just were on the residency interview trail. They said a lot of people showed up with 80+ scores. It makes me wonder how many people are applying with an 80+every application cycle and what someone should shoot for.

 

[IOPEU]

Speaking of percentiles, I have a question. Is an 80 considered really good on the CBSE still? The average seems to be around 55-57 with a SD of around 11.5-12 for every test. That would mean an 80 is 2 SDs from the mean, making it 97/98th percentile. That would mean very few people score 80+, but it seems like a lot of people are scoring that high, based on what I hear from people who just were on the residency interview trail. They said a lot of people showed up with 80+ scores. It makes me wonder how many people are applying with an 80+every application cycle and what someone should shoot for.

1SD above mean is a little below 70 (1SD above mean therefore around 16.5% of people)
Most people take this test 2-3 times before they apply.
Most people, once they score above 70, will not retake it.
If we assume 2 times of test taking before applying, that means 16.5*2 = 33% of people in the applicant pool will have score above 70
If we assume 3 times of test taking before applying, that means 16.5*3 = 49.5 of people in the applicant pool will have score above 70

 

[Life of Pablo]

1SD above mean is a little below 70 (1SD above mean therefore around 16.5% of people)
Most people take this test 2-3 times before they apply.
Most people, once they score above 70, will not retake it.
If we assume 2 times of test taking before applying, that means 16.5*2 = 33% of people in the applicant pool will have score above 70
If we assume 3 times of test taking before applying, that means 16.5*3 = 49.5 of people in the applicant pool will have score above 70

But this is assuming that the people breaking 70 are in YOUR applicant pool. Plenty of D2s, D3s, and D4s take the exam at the same time. Therefore, I would assume that the numbers you provided are slightly higher since you're including test takers from 3 different applicant pools. For example, 7 D2s at my school this year broke 70. Our scores would skew the mean for the D3 and D4 applicant pool when we are not applying with them.

Let's run some quick numbers assuming everyoe who breaks 70 is ONLY in your applicant pool:

100 people want to do OS so 100x .84 = 84 people didnt break 70 so they take it again
84x .84 = 71 people did not break 70 so they take it again
71 x .84 = 60 people did not break 70 after their 3rd time.

So after 3 times 40% of applicants broke 70. Again, this is assuming everyone who breaks 70 is in your application pool. This is also assuming that everyone who wants to do OS is able to take it 3 times. Many people take it late and have only 1-2 opportunities to take the exam. A final assumption is that everyone retakes it if they dont get a 70. I'm sure there are plenty of people that score in the 60s and are content.

This is anecdotal evidence but I highly doubt that 50% of the applicant pool is breaking 70 each year lol based off the scores I've seen of applying D4s from the last 2 years at my school.

Anyway, I wish they released the numbers so we would actually know lol

 

[spdental]

I think it's worth noting that many of the examples seen on the forum aren't the norm. We continuously see people breaking 70s, 80s, and 90s on here making it seem like it's the usual; however, there's a large population pool that isn't on SDN that do not consider 70s and 80s as regular scores.

I saw the same thing with the DAT. When I was applying for dental school I thought that I had to get a 23+ to apply because everyone on here was scoring that, but in reality a lot of people I know got into good schools scoring 18-22.

 

[deleted913442]

Speaking of percentiles, I have a question. Is an 80 considered really good on the CBSE still? The average seems to be around 55-57 with a SD of around 11.5-12 for every test. That would mean an 80 is 2 SDs from the mean, making it 97/98th percentile. That would mean very few people score 80+, but it seems like a lot of people are scoring that high, based on what I hear from people who just were on the residency interview trail. They said a lot of people showed up with 80+ scores. It makes me wonder how many people are applying with an 80+every application cycle and what someone should shoot for.

I scored a 47 first time and 81 second. Just need to keep in mind that people can retake it, so those percentiles aren’t totally accurate.

Shoot for a 70 and you’ll be good. 450 people apply for 260 spots usually. Breaking a 70 will probably put you in the top 35% so youd have a great chance of matching.

Agreed to what spdental said too. I didn't let a soul know I hit 47 first time, but brought up my second score during my post-exam write-up.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[cementoenamel junction]

I scored a 47 first time and 81 second. Just need to keep in mind that people can retake it, so those percentiles aren’t totally accurate.

Shoot for a 70 and you’ll be good. 450 people apply for 260 spots usually. Breaking a 70 will probably put you in the top 35% so youd have a great chance of matching.

Agreed to what spdental said too. I didn't let a soul know I hit 47 first time, but brought up my second score during my post-exam write-up.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN

Once the OMFS applicant is invited for Interview, does GPA/CBSE/Class Rank play any role in the Ranking of the applicants, or is it just based off of the performance of the Interview?

 

[Life of Pablo]

Speaking of percentiles, I have a question. Is an 80 considered really good on the CBSE still? The average seems to be around 55-57 with a SD of around 11.5-12 for every test. That would mean an 80 is 2 SDs from the mean, making it 97/98th percentile. That would mean very few people score 80+, but it seems like a lot of people are scoring that high, based on what I hear from people who just were on the residency interview trail. They said a lot of people showed up with 80+ scores. It makes me wonder how many people are applying with an 80+every application cycle and what someone should shoot for.

80 is a great score. Put yourself in the program directors shoes. If you have two applicants, one has an 86 and the other a 79 on the cbse. Both are clearly very smart and will pass step 1 when they take it. How would you decide between the two? Probably by their interviews and how you see them fitting your program.

 

[deleted913442]

Once the OMFS applicant is invited for Interview, does GPA/CBSE/Class Rank play any role in the Ranking of the applicants, or is it just based off of the performance of the Interview?

No one honestly knows. if a 69 and 86 both got invited to an interview, I would think that if it is close and both performed similarly then the 86 would get it. But if the 69 knocks the interview out of the park vs the 86 then they could absolutely take the spot.

Higher score gets you more interviews though. People at my school who broke 70 maybe only got 12/20 interview (which is amazing - goal is 10 interviews). Other students who broke 80 probably got 18/20 interviews. Thats where the score definitely comes in handy - guarantees you more interviews (i've not been through this process but this is what I've heard from people)

 

[Life of Pablo]

Once the OMFS applicant is invited for Interview, does GPA/CBSE/Class Rank play any role in the Ranking of the applicants, or is it just based off of the performance of the Interview?

This paper published has the answer: https://natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2018programreport.pdf

While class ranking/transcripts/nbme scores are most important when giving an interview, when program directors were asked what's the most important factor in ranking applicants "applicant response to interview questions" and "perceived interest in our program" were both higher on their list than class ranking and standardized scores. That makes me think that your GPA is still important, but not as important once you get the itnerview.

 

[IOPEU]

But this is assuming that the people breaking 70 are in YOUR applicant pool. Plenty of D2s, D3s, and D4s take the exam at the same time. Therefore, I would assume that the numbers you provided are slightly lower since you're including test takers from 3 different applicant pools.

But this is assuming that the people breaking 70 are in YOUR applicant pool. Plenty of D2s, D3s, and D4s take the exam at the same time. Therefore, I would assume that the numbers you provided are slightly higher since you're including test takers from 3 different applicant pools. For example, 7 D2s at my school this year broke 70. Our scores would skew the mean for the D3 and D4 applicant pool when we are not applying with them.

Let's run some quick numbers assuming everyoe who breaks 70 is ONLY in your applicant pool:

100 people want to do OS so 100x .84 = 84 people didnt break 70 so they take it again
84x .84 = 71 people did not break 70 so they take it again
71 x .84 = 60 people did not break 70 after their 3rd time.

So after 3 times 40% of applicants broke 70. Again, this is assuming everyone who breaks 70 is in your application pool. This is also assuming that everyone who wants to do OS is able to take it 3 times. Many people take it late and have only 1-2 opportunities to take the exam. A final assumption is that everyone retakes it if they dont get a 70. I'm sure there are plenty of people that score in the 60s and are content.

This is anecdotal evidence but I highly doubt that 50% of the applicant pool is breaking 70 each year lol based off the scores I've seen of applying D4s from the last 2 years at my school.

Anyway, I wish they released the numbers so we would actually know lol

lol I agree with you that 50% is way exaggerated.