Naive OD Students

[KHE]

If you are including OMD's then probably the reimbursements would go down. But the fact of the matter is that whenever there is an annouced decrease in the reimbursment for the ophthalmologic codes, the American Ophthalmology Association, and the American Optometric Association go to Congress to make sure it doesn't happen. In one year they turned a proposed double digit decrease into a slight increase. Other times they are not as sucessful, but to my knowledge Congress has never said anything about how much Dr. Smith at Wal-Mart charges when negotiating.

Yes....I understand that. I also understand that even if every single commercial OD charged $120 for a comprehensive eval, it would NOT make reimbursement from any 3rd party go up. I just think that those commercial docs will be seeing a lot less patients, and the refracting opticians will move in.

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[Ben Chudner]

I just think that those commercial docs will be seeing a lot less patients, and the refracting opticians will move in.

Now that's an interesting point. Imagine if all the commercial docs finally listened to Scott, McD, and Keith and went into private practice. It's my opinion that Lux and Wal-Mart would then lobby for refracting optician bills to replace the Rx's lost. Now an "eye exam" would cost $20 or less. How would that help the profession? Maybe, one way to look at commercial docs is that they are actually protecting us from what would be certain doom for us all.

I also wanted to post the Medicare reimbursements for cataract surgery from 2000 to 2007 to compare to eye exams. The following are for Indiana:

2000 - $701.67
2001 - $699.27
2002 - $632.42
2003 - $635.88
2004 - $652.28
2005 - $650.89
2006 - $648.83
2007 - $608.68

So in the time that eye exam rembursements increased by 15%, cataract surgery (not affected by what corporate docs charge) decreased by over 13%. Notice that there was big decrease in 2007 just like there was for eye exams.

The bottom line is that I don't know if corporate optometry is bad for us, but I have my own opinion about it. What I do know is that one of the effects of corporate optometry is not a reduction in insurance reimbursements. What I also know for a fact is that it is the private practice docs charging too little for eye exams that has kept VSP reimbursements down. It's funny how I don't hear complaints about that.

 

[qwopty99]

i've always wondered...

do PP docs really believe that "commercial optometry" would disappear if ODs stopped refracting in WM, Costco, Target, Sam's, Pearl, Sears, Iris, and Lenscrafters? their arguments tend to suggest this, but its so grossly naive.

a market exists for the type of services provided by an OD in a mall who is associated with an optical. this is a statement of "fact" and my evidence is the many examples we have in America of this situation, the very ones that PP ODs complain about.

as long as this market exists, then there will likely be people who are willing to provide that service. if u really want to discuss change, the question would be how to erase that market. you can't erase the providers - there will always be others who will step in to capture that market, who knows who they would be, but it would likely be unlicensed refracting opticians. think about how abolition was so successful in the 1920s.

as for fees - the commercial doc doesn't have nearly the expenses/overhead of the PP doc, so that's why they can charge less and still make a bottom line.

 

[qwopty99]

Now that's an interesting point. Imagine if all the commercial docs finally listened to Scott, McD, and Keith and went into private practice. It's my opinion that Lux and Wal-Mart would then lobby for refracting optician bills to replace the Rx's lost. Now an "eye exam" would cost $20 or less. How would that help the profession? Maybe, one way to look at commercial docs is that they are actually protecting us from what would be certain doom for us all.

lol. i replied to the thread before seeing this.

we think alike.

 

[Ben Chudner]

i've always wondered...

do PP docs really believe that "commercial optometry" would disappear if ODs stopped refracting in WM, Costco, Target, Sam's, Pearl, Sears, Iris, and Lenscrafters? their arguments tend to suggest this, but its so grossly naive.

a market exists for the type of services provided by an OD in a mall who is associated with an optical. this is a statement of "fact" and my evidence is the many examples we have in America of this situation, the very ones that PP ODs complain about.

as long as this market exists, then there will likely be people who are willing to provide that service. if u really want to discuss change, the question would be how to erase that market. you can't erase the providers - there will always be others who will step in to capture that market, who knows who they would be, but it would likely be unlicensed refracting opticians. think about how abolition was so successful in the 1920s.

as for fees - the commercial doc doesn't have nearly the expenses/overhead of the PP doc, so that's why they can charge less and still make a bottom line.

Thank you! I am glad to see that my point was not lost. For the record, I dislike corporate optometry, but I do not dislike corporate optometrists. This is why I continue to confront some posters when they attack the OD's. I've noticed that Watson has done the same on ODwire and I completely agree with him. The problem is not the OD's. This mode of practice is not going away. The problem is the number of graduates which appears to be increasing. You want to blame someone, lay off the corporate OD's and attack the schools. For those of you that think we have a nationwide oversupply problem today, imagine what would happen if every current corporate doc (not to mention all of the future grads) went into private practice tomorrow.

 

[IndianaOD]

I'd be careful here, the powers that be get a might upset when folks post PMs they've received without getting the sender's permission. While I certainly don't often agree with you, you do at least generate discussion and I'd hate to see you banned/post held.

The poster was asked and was told it would be removed at any time if he/she wanted it to.

I don't really care about being banned. The censorship on this site is already almost unbearable. It would just be a loss to the students that I would help. I get quite a few postive PMs that I never share.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The poster was asked and was told it would be removed at any time if he/she wanted it to.

I don't really care about being banned. The censorship on this site is already almost unbearable. It would just be a loss to the students that I would help. I get quite a few postive PMs that I never share.

Fair enough, looking back I should've PMed you that instead (my apologies on the public nature of it).

That being said, do you really find the censorship here that bad? Other than the OD v. MD threads (which aren't going to be changing anyone's mind anytime soon), I haven't noticed too many threads being closed/deleted that hadn't degenerated into pointless arguments.

 

[Caffeinated]

you can't erase the providers - there will always be others who will step in to capture that market, who knows who they would be, but it would likely be unlicensed refracting opticians. think about how abolition was so successful in the 1920s.

I think you might mean "prohibition" - when alcohol was outlawed by the 18th Amendment (1919). Abolition was the movement to outlaw slavery, which culminated in the 13th Amendment (1865).

 

[qwopty99]

lol.

ur right.

i'm not american. can u tell?

 

[IndianaOD]

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Use this time to reflect on becoming a REAL Doctor of Optometry!

 

[Caffeinated]

lol.

ur right.

i'm not american. can u tell?

I saw a commercial yesterday for Dewar's. They are promoting the upcoming 75th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition - December 5th.

Happy Repeal Day.

 

[IndianaOD]

In a change of pace for this thread, I'd like to get some student input. I'd like to hear how students are planning for their future after graduation. I've had quite a few PMs from students who have their head's in the game, but when I was on faculty as a resident I was amazed at how many fourth years had NO plan with 2 months until graduation.

How are you going to find a job/career?
How are you going to attract patients in a crowded market? (much harder than it seems, you can't just be a good OD and fill your schedule).
What would you like to see organized optometry set as its priorities?
What do you say to a patient who says "oh you're not a REAL doctor"? As an aside ODs are truly the only "Eye Doctors" out there. Ophthalmologist IMO are "medical doctors who do eye surgery".

 

[IndianaOD]

Ah, nobody cares about those questions and I figured there would be no responses.

I would like to keep this thread alive as I have gotten positive PM responses.

 

[docwatson]

Ah, nobody cares about those questions and I figured there would be no responses.

I would like to keep this thread alive as I have gotten positive PM responses.

Probably would help to post a new thread. I think students have been conditioned to ignore this one.

 

[IndianaOD]

Probably would help to post a new thread. I think students have been conditioned to ignore this one.

There is always new blood coming and going . If they ignore our advice may they stew in a vat of commercial unprofessionalism.

 

[Ben Chudner]

If they ignore our advice may they stew in a vat of commercial unprofessionalism.

That actually made me laugh. Very funny.

 

[IndianaOD]

Students,

You have to understand my motivations.

I do not want you to have a rude awakening during your fourth year that this profession is not at all what you thought it was. I thought I was well informed and was still caught off guard a bit.

This seems to be a very "everyone for them self" profession, to my disappointment. ODs are very apathetic and don't care if it doesn't affect them directly. Personally, I think working commercial is very selfish. It's instant gratification at the expense of your colleagues who are trying to improve the profession.

I went in to school thinking that private practice jobs would be easy to find, and being from a small town I never realized how many commercial places existed. I would have never thought you couldn't fill your schedule just by being a good Doc. Instead you have to convince people an eye exam is worth more than a haircut.

I truly wish you all success. Just research what you are heading towards.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Students,

You have to understand my motivations.

I do not want you to have a rude awakening during your fourth year that this profession is not at all what you thought it was. I thought I was well informed and was still caught off guard a bit.

This seems to be a very "everyone for them self" profession, to my disappointment. ODs are very apathetic and don't care if it doesn't affect them directly. Personally, I think working commercial is very selfish. It's instant gratification at the expense of your colleagues who are trying to improve the profession.

I went in to school thinking that private practice jobs would be easy to find, and being from a small town I never realized how many commercial places existed. I would have never thought you couldn't fill your schedule just by being a good Doc. Instead you have to convince people an eye exam is worth more than a haircut.

I truly wish you all success. Just research what you are heading towards.

Indiana, I don't think anyone questions your motivation. I believe the majority of the private practice OD's that post here have the interests of the students first and foremost in their minds. I have said multiple times that I agree with most of what you, Watson, and McDaniel post here. Where I think we differ is our approach.

I don't begrudge the corporate OD's for their decision to go into corporate. I unfortunately think there are legitimate reasons why new grads feel they have no choice but to take a corporate gig. I am happy this happens? Absolutely not. I do not like corporations like Wal-Mart and Lux having so much influence on how OD's practice optometry.

I agree that students need to do more research earlier in their career than 4th year. I truely believe that if students took the time to network from day one in optometry school they would not only find private practice opportunities, but I think they may even be able to create ones that may not have been there otherwise. I believe this is the way we will decrease the number of grads that enter the corporate abyss.

 

[still_confused]

private practice docs must have a bigger diplomas then the commercial ones

 

[KHE]

Indiana, I don't think anyone questions your motivation. I believe the majority of the private practice OD's that post here have the interests of the students first and foremost in their minds. I have said multiple times that I agree with most of what you, Watson, and McDaniel post here. Where I think we differ is our approach.

I don't begrudge the corporate OD's for their decision to go into corporate. I unfortunately think there are legitimate reasons why new grads feel they have no choice but to take a corporate gig. I am happy this happens? Absolutely not. I do not like corporations like Wal-Mart and Lux having so much influence on how OD's practice optometry.

.

I also don't think people question the motivation, I just think people would prefer to receive advice from docs who have actually been around the block once or twice instead of someone who has been out of school for 6 months. At the very least, I think they would prefer to not be lectured on any perceived naivete they may have by someone who has been out 6 months.

 

[qwopty99]

I would have never thought you couldn't fill your schedule just by being a good Doc. Instead you have to convince people an eye exam is worth more than a haircut.

BINGO.

optometry is about selling. selling yourself, selling your glasses, selling your store.

i was a bit disappointed about that actually.

 

[eyestrain]

Pretty much every job is about selling.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

I also don't think people question the motivation, I just think people would prefer to receive advice from docs who have actually been around the block once or twice instead of someone who has been out of school for 6 months. At the very least, I think they would prefer to not be lectured on any perceived naivete they may have by someone who has been out 6 months.

You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 

[IndianaOD]

I also don't think people question the motivation, I just think people would prefer to receive advice from docs who have actually been around the block once or twice instead of someone who has been out of school for 6 months. At the very least, I think they would prefer to not be lectured on any perceived naivete they may have by someone who has been out 6 months.

Depends if you define residency as school. It doesn't take much experience or intelligence to see the problems. Experience isn't everything, I just figured it out before others. Its not hard to put it together talking to colleauges and OD friends. At least I didn't get so down on optometry I had to take a haitus.

Anyone that's even in their 4th year of school will hear the perception problem we have from commercial. Its not hard to personally experience that there are too many ODs out there. Ken, it took you quite awhile to get lucky.

Many new grads can treat twice as many visual problems as a doc with 40 years of "experience". A lot of "experienced" ODs don't even know how to bill medically.

I believe your statment is inaccurate.

 

[qwopty99]

Pretty much every job is about selling.

whatever.

if ur an MD who has a wait list of 12 months for surgery, then i would disagree.

the activity that occurs in such an office is best described as the practice of medicine, moreso than the practice of selling.

if u want to argue by experience. i currently work in an MD office. we don't need to sell. anything. the wait times are through the roof just to get in. this MD could suck rocks as an MD (good thing he doesn't), and we'd still be busy.

if u practice in an underserviced jurisdiction, or provide a limited service, then u don't need to do much selling. but there will still be a lot of buying. this is not the job scenario for most urban optometrists.

fine. but if u want to still argue that "every job is about selling", then optometrists have to sell MORE than MDs do.

that is one disappointing aspect of optometry.

 

[eyestrain]

whatever.

if ur an MD who has a wait list of 12 months for surgery, then i would disagree.

the activity that occurs in such an office is best described as the practice of medicine, moreso than the practice of selling.

if u want to argue by experience. i currently work in an MD office. we don't need to sell. anything. the wait times are through the roof just to get in. this MD could suck rocks as an MD (good thing he doesn't), and we'd still be busy.

if u practice in an underserviced jurisdiction, or provide a limited service, then u don't need to do much selling. but there will still be a lot of buying. this is not the job scenario for most urban optometrists.

fine. but if u want to still argue that "every job is about selling", then optometrists have to sell MORE than MDs do.

that is one disappointing aspect of optometry.

So go to med school.

 

[qwopty99]

gee. that's a witty response.


eyestrain: is there anything in your life that u find disappointing?

So go jump off a bridge.

 

[KHE]

Depends if you define residency as school. It doesn't take much experience or intelligence to see the problems. Experience isn't everything, I just figured it out before others. Its not hard to put it together talking to colleauges and OD friends. At least I didn't get so down on optometry I had to take a haitus.

Anyone that's even in their 4th year of school will hear the perception problem we have from commercial. Its not hard to personally experience that there are too many ODs out there. Ken, it took you quite awhile to get lucky.

Many new grads can treat twice as many visual problems as a doc with 40 years of "experience". A lot of "experienced" ODs don't even know how to bill medically.

I believe your statment is inaccurate.

Indiana,

Of course a residency counts as a year of school....I guarantee you that in 5 years, you'll think the same thing.

When I graduated, I was awarded some kind of scholarship for commitment to enter private practice which was awarded based on my knowledge about and desire to entire private practice as an owner. I can say with near certainty that I was as prepared and knowledgable about the field as any graduate in my cohort.

Almost 8 years later, I can also say with near certainty that someone 6 months out of residency doesn't know **** from shinola about the world "outside of school" no matter how many ODs they have spoken to, no matter how many trade journals they have read, no matter how many online forums they are part of, etc. etc. etc.

And that's not an attack....in retrospect, I too didn't know **** from shinola when I was 6 months out of residency, though I was pretty convinced I did.

So Indiana, just calm down a little bit and dial the rhetoric down a notch or two. I sense your passion, and it's commendable but you're rantings I fear are doing much more harm than good. Most people are just going to tune you out because you are starting to sound like those guys who stand on the street corner in Times Square yelling REPENT!! REPENT!! THE END IS NEAR!!

You're way too soon out of school to be as cynical as you are.....calm down a little bit.

 

[broadway]

I agree completely. When I first graduated my dad told me to go work for a few people before I go work for him. I thought I had all the answers on how to improve his business . I was wrong.

 

[IndianaOD]

Indiana,

Of course a residency counts as a year of school....I guarantee you that in 5 years, you'll think the same thing.

When I graduated, I was awarded some kind of scholarship for commitment to enter private practice which was awarded based on my knowledge about and desire to entire private practice as an owner. I can say with near certainty that I was as prepared and knowledgable about the field as any graduate in my cohort.

Almost 8 years later, I can also say with near certainty that someone 6 months out of residency doesn't know **** from shinola about the world "outside of school" no matter how many ODs they have spoken to, no matter how many trade journals they have read, no matter how many online forums they are part of, etc. etc. etc.

And that's not an attack....in retrospect, I too didn't know **** from shinola when I was 6 months out of residency, though I was pretty convinced I did.

So Indiana, just calm down a little bit and dial the rhetoric down a notch or two. I sense your passion, and it's commendable but you're rantings I fear are doing much more harm than good. Most people are just going to tune you out because you are starting to sound like those guys who stand on the street corner in Times Square yelling REPENT!! REPENT!! THE END IS NEAR!!

You're way too soon out of school to be as cynical as you are.....calm down a little bit.

I bet I get as many appreciative and positive PMs from my postings as anyone else on here. Since I don't know crapola, why did I get several job offers from ODwire docs who exclaimed I understood the profession much better than most.

Others can continue in ignorant bliss, its fine unless you wake up to a realistic nightmare....and hey I like my career....just wish it was better.

and Ken buddy, what happened. Your rhetoric was every bit as strong as mine before. Did getting a lucky break (deserved) completely turn your outlook on the profession around?

If we let this thread die, there will be a near duplicate one pop up months down the road. That's life though. I am satisfied with the benefit it has given several students.

 

[Tippytoe]

Optometry is the worst $130,000/yr job in the world (conundrum-- perhaps). Brain-dead work but easy money. You just have to put your mind in a constant day-dream state 40-50 hours per week for, oh, 40 years or so and repeat after me (120 times per week), "which is better, 1 or 2" and "presbyopia is_______" ).

And most importantly, (to an insurance clerk on the phone in Fargo), "yes, this patient does have a medical condition and yes she should be covered and yes you should have paid this claim 4 months ago. Could you please--ah, pretty please-- pay me because if you don't, I'm gonna.................call again".

Also, you'll get used to saying, "sure, here is your spec Rx. Yea, I saw that buy-one-get-3-free ad too at Lensmartcrafters. Good luck. What. Yes, you can have your brothers/mothers/and cousins Rx too."

And don't forget, "Yes ma'am, I'll be happy to fit you in blue contacts like your cousin got at the flea market. But there will be a cost (then wait for all hell to break loose). Then wait for the letter from an attorney demanding you release a CL rx that you never even fit (true story)

But it's all good. Could be digging ditches or laying bricks. I'll be fine financially (very good actually, lest you think my comments are out of failure). Just wish I didn't sell myself so intellectually short. Even the most difficult stuff in Optomety is childsplay.

 

[KHE]

I bet I get as many appreciative and positive PMs from my postings as anyone else on here. Since I don't know crapola, why did I get several job offers from ODwire docs who exclaimed I understood the profession much better than most.

Others can continue in ignorant bliss, its fine unless you wake up to a realistic nightmare....and hey I like my career....just wish it was better.

and Ken buddy, what happened. Your rhetoric was every bit as strong as mine before. Did getting a lucky break (deserved) completely turn your outlook on the profession around?

If we let this thread die, there will be a near duplicate one pop up months down the road. That's life though. I am satisfied with the benefit it has given several students.

I had plenty of job offers too...the number of job offers you get means little in this business. It's easy to get a "job."

As far as my attitude change goes....it hasn't changed as much as you might think....I just think I have a bit more perspective now to realize that ranting and raving accomplishes next to nothing. You'll realize that one day....hopefully.

 

[IndianaOD]

I had plenty of job offers too...the number of job offers you get means little in this business. It's easy to get a "job."

As far as my attitude change goes....it hasn't changed as much as you might think....I just think I have a bit more perspective now to realize that ranting and raving accomplishes next to nothing. You'll realize that one day....hopefully.

Never! Mwa ha ha. Ken, someone has to do it, it might as well be me for the present time.

I have come to realize that there have to be people strongly on one side, otherwise the "middle" will go the other way. For example, there have to be outspoken conservatives to keep the "middle" from heading more liberal.

 

[docwatson]

Never! Mwa ha ha. Ken, someone has to do it, it might as well be me for the present time.

I have come to realize that there have to be people strongly on one side, otherwise the "middle" will go the other way. For example, there have to be outspoken conservatives to keep the "middle" from heading more liberal.

Nah, you're still young--that's why. Give it a few years. You'll give up. It happens to all of us.

 

[stevemc1]

I'm almost 40 and getting more fanatical by the day.

 

[IndianaOD]

any new lurkers to address?

 

[eyepoker]

How are you going to attract patients in a crowded market? (much harder than it seems, you can't just be a good OD and fill your schedule).

I don't know...how do you do it?? my boss, a general OMD tries to make personal connections to pts, and spend a lot of time with them, sometimes up to 1 hr of undivided attention to pt after dilation, but she still tries hard to keep her patients.

What would you like to see organized optometry set as its priorities?

Maybe more elective/minor/anterior surgery?? fight for more "minor surgical" rights with adequate training in OD programs/residency.

What do you say to a patient who says "oh you're not a REAL doctor"? As an aside ODs are truly the only "Eye Doctors" out there. Ophthalmologist IMO are "medical doctors who do eye surgery".

this is why I am frustrated today.....I always chat with patients when I do my part of the exam, sometimes chatting involves talking about my plans for OD programs, most pts are nice and ask specifics about what OD programs offer, after I told them that "ODs are primary care doctors for the eye, and if surgical procedures are needed, pt will be referred to OMDs." pt often understand it/or appears to understand. BUT, they are ALWAYS one or two old/old fashion pts that comment "so you are not a REAL doctor," or "oh so you will become an optometrist, that's great!!, so you will be dealing with glasses and stuff".....

well, today is one of those unfortunate days that I got 4, 5 (idiotic) comments like this in a role...... although I pull myself together well enough that all the pts liked me (Oh...Dr. X, your assistant is so nice and so gentle when she examined me...bleh bleh bleh....), I very much want to punch my stuffed animals when I got home....

Starting OD program this fall, I am proud of becoming part of this profession,
and I am sure that one day I won't be affected by comments like this, but today is just not that day, and I needed to stay away from those comment for a while, sleep it off, and tomorrow will be a new start.....

just need to vent a little bit....

 

[IndianaOD]

Thanks for your feedback eyepoker.

 

[IndianaOD]

Man, there hasn't been anything intersting on the optometry forum in a couple of weeks.

 

[gochi]

haha...you should start a thread called "KHE's bio resurrected, part 2"

 

[gochi]

Man, there hasn't been anything intersting on the optometry forum in a couple of weeks.

You're trick actually worked

 

[DrRobs]

I don't know...how do you do it?? my boss, a general OMD tries to make personal connections to pts, and spend a lot of time with them, sometimes up to 1 hr of undivided attention to pt after dilation, but she still tries hard to keep her patients.



Maybe more elective/minor/anterior surgery?? fight for more "minor surgical" rights with adequate training in OD programs/residency.



this is why I am frustrated today.....I always chat with patients when I do my part of the exam, sometimes chatting involves talking about my plans for OD programs, most pts are nice and ask specifics about what OD programs offer, after I told them that "ODs are primary care doctors for the eye, and if surgical procedures are needed, pt will be referred to OMDs." pt often understand it/or appears to understand. BUT, they are ALWAYS one or two old/old fashion pts that comment "so you are not a REAL doctor," or "oh so you will become an optometrist, that's great!!, so you will be dealing with glasses and stuff".....

well, today is one of those unfortunate days that I got 4, 5 (idiotic) comments like this in a role...... although I pull myself together well enough that all the pts liked me (Oh...Dr. X, your assistant is so nice and so gentle when she examined me...bleh bleh bleh....), I very much want to punch my stuffed animals when I got home....

Starting OD program this fall, I am proud of becoming part of this profession,
and I am sure that one day I won't be affected by comments like this, but today is just not that day, and I needed to stay away from those comment for a while, sleep it off, and tomorrow will be a new start.....

just need to vent a little bit....

I know your frustration, I work for an OD though and I have the same feelings, the feelings of a tech "in training". I can't imagine how it feels being in an MD office, because when ppl who were previous MD patiends come to an OD they are ALWAYS apprehensive when I take their history, but I always let the OD I work for know these feelings when I prep her, and she ALWAYS wins them over. I have had a great example bc of that. I have had a great example mostly bc, my OD does what she can for EVERY patient she sees, she specializes in Low Vision, Binocular Vision, and Neuro Rehabilitation....so therefore I Have bee blessed just by that respect but I have also been blessed by knowing that my OD does not get afraid to refer patients to MDs as needed and she is not afraid of patients who are "afraid to see her" because they don't want to "betray" their MD bc the state told them they needed "adaptive equipment". when it comes down to it, I have learned thing I never thought I could do, and I know I can do all of these things because I care about my patients the same way she does.

She knows I am going to be a good OD because the start of being a good Doctor is knowing your patient and CARING about your patient, no matter how much time you spend on them. The people who come to you willl always come to you, if you are a good doctor. That parallels in every field, its unfortunate the general public has met a lot of doctors who don't listen completeley (and I'm saying this in any field of doctor) to know exactly what it is they are looking for until its too late. A good doctor will recoginze what their patient needs to do regardless of what they need and make sure they refer them to the proper care they need in order to obtain that. Thats what makes a good doctor in any field, too bad there has to be comepetion. The patients matter first and foremost if you can recogize that, you will be a good doctor, even if you don't make money and have to stuggle.....karma is real.

 

[eyestrain]

The people who come to you willl always come to you, if you are a good doctor.

Yeah, until their insurance changes and you aren't a provider. I'm convinced that being a "good doctor" has little to do with anything.

 

[IndianaOD]

Yeah, until their insurance changes and you aren't a provider. I'm convinced that being a "good doctor" has little to do with anything.

Pure truth there!

 

[gochi]

Yeah, until their insurance changes and you aren't a provider. I'm convinced that being a "good doctor" has little to do with anything.

Well, being a "bad doctor" has a lot to do with anything.

 

[diams]

Like I said, the apathy on this forum causes me to only be active once in awhile. If you check some other posts I attempt to help when useful.

I could give advice on how to look for a job etc, etc, but there would be 5 views and it would disappear from the forums.

If the students get uncomfortable about their future they will be more likely to get informed and be more successful.

I actually considered staying in academia because I love teaching the students. However, I was passionate about optometry and wanted to try private practice and work my way up the AOA structure or state politics. BTW my residency coordinator stated I was the best resident that he ever had, both in clinical and teaching terms.


The students can do whatever they want with my rantings. I believe my posts have a lot less fluff than 90% of the posts on here.

Oh an as for my part. I helped 2 OD students find private practice positions.

Hi ,
Since you are a successful practicing OD.I wanted to ask you for help in terms of how to get into a private practice without doing a residency. I am at Michigan College of Optometry and this is my first year here.I definitely need help in terms to starting at a private practice right after school and i definitely don't want to go into corporate unless i have to(like not finding anything after school except corporate).I know you mentioned you have helped two other ODs , so i was wandering if you could help me.I didnt know when is a good time to start looking into private practice .Also I am not from Michigan , I am from the Southwest so i was hoping you would help me in terms of how do i look for a job in the Southwest after i have graduated from Michigan College of Optometry.

 

[gochi]

Hi ,
Since you are a successful practicing OD.I wanted to ask you for help in terms of how to get into a private practice without doing a residency. I am at Michigan College of Optometry and this is my first year here.I definitely need help in terms to starting at a private practice right after school and i definitely don't want to go into corporate unless i have to(like not finding anything after school except corporate).I know you mentioned you have helped two other ODs , so i was wandering if you could help me.I didnt know when is a good time to start looking into private practice .Also I am not from Michigan , I am from the Southwest so i was hoping you would help me in terms of how do i look for a job in the Southwest after i have graduated from Michigan College of Optometry.

You've been admitted into Optometry school so I'm gonna assume you are more intelligent than the average human. With that said, learn how to spell and seriously, get off your a$$ after 3 years and look for a job. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, so don't be offended.

 

[IndianaOD]

Hi ,
Since you are a successful practicing OD.I wanted to ask you for help in terms of how to get into a private practice without doing a residency. I am at Michigan College of Optometry and this is my first year here.I definitely need help in terms to starting at a private practice right after school and i definitely don't want to go into corporate unless i have to(like not finding anything after school except corporate).I know you mentioned you have helped two other ODs , so i was wandering if you could help me.I didnt know when is a good time to start looking into private practice .Also I am not from Michigan , I am from the Southwest so i was hoping you would help me in terms of how do i look for a job in the Southwest after i have graduated from Michigan College of Optometry.

I helped others because they were opportunities I can accross while looking for myself. As a resident I knew what my 4th years were looking for and matched them up. If you are private practice minded I would make sure to join ODwire.

At this time I'm happy because I like what I do, not setting any income records but hopefully that will follow.

Keep in touch with the frame and CL reps as well.

 

[QPublic]

I happened to peruse the OD forum today, out of curiosity. As a practicing clinical psychologist, I can't help but notice a number of common or similar issues we face (eg, turf wars, but instead of with opthamology, it's with psychiatry for us/sometimes not being viewed as a "real" doctor; question of oversupply, shrinking reimbursements, disillusionment after graduate school, etc.) A major issue for psychologist, IMO, is the glut of non-doctoral level folks (social workers, counselors, other varieties of 'therapists') competing for the same territory, despite having significantly less training. Our field as a whole, in my opinion, has done very little to maintain exclusivity in terms of scope of practice. To my limited knowledge, this is not an issue for optometry. Or are there PAs/APRNs that try to practice in this area?
Anyhow, as I said, I just sort of wound up reading this thread and wanted to comment.

 

[IndianaOD]

I happened to peruse the OD forum today, out of curiosity. As a practicing clinical psychologist, I can't help but notice a number of common or similar issues we face (eg, turf wars, but instead of with opthamology, it's with psychiatry for us/sometimes not being viewed as a "real" doctor; question of oversupply, shrinking reimbursements, disillusionment after graduate school, etc.) A major issue for psychologist, IMO, is the glut of non-doctoral level folks (social workers, counselors, other varieties of 'therapists') competing for the same territory, despite having significantly less training. Our field as a whole, in my opinion, has done very little to maintain exclusivity in terms of scope of practice. To my limited knowledge, this is not an issue for optometry. Or are there PAs/APRNs that try to practice in this area?
Anyhow, as I said, I just sort of wound up reading this thread and wanted to comment.

There are some over-zealous opticians out there. Don't forget those.