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Worked at Target in HS and that is definitely inflated. It ranges from 80-150 before bonuses. Plus you never get to leave. Target basically owns you and you will be working for that money.
MWU-AZ vs. Other School + AEGD vs. Other school and NO AEGD
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I can’t find the source, but it was based on Target Superstores in the suburbs.
Store Operations Director - Process Operations - Minneapolis, MN - Target | Ladders
Target is hiring a Store Operations Director - Process Operations, with an estimated salary of $150000 - $200000. This Operations Management job in Operations & General Management is in Minneapolis, MN 55401.
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I can’t find the source, but it was based on Target Superstores in the suburbs.
Store Operations Director - Process Operations - Minneapolis, MN - Target | Ladders
Target is hiring a Store Operations Director - Process Operations, with an estimated salary of $150000 - $200000. This Operations Management job in Operations & General Management is in Minneapolis, MN 55401.www.theladders.com
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Saw an opening for a Walmart manager a while ago in my area and the job offered 300-400k + full benefits after factoring in all bonuses and what not if I remember correctly. BUT you had to work 90 hours a week in a v high stress / heavy workload environment.
Rather be a dentist w/ an office or two and a few NNN properties. The manager gigs are not worth it. Very few careers offer the true freedom and quality of life dentistry can offer imo.
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True, I don’t think anyone here would actually quit dentistry to become a Walmart manager lmaooo, I would rather drag my balls through a lava pit than deal with rowdy Walmart people
It just shows there’s a lot of ways to make good money in the US in 2020. It also shows that a dentist income of 150-200k isn’t all that high. Sites like US news should stop glorifying dentistry. And to be fair sometimes dental patients can be even worse than rowdy Walmart people
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Imagine what Amazon fulfillment center managers go through... talk about ultimate stress. I wouldn’t be surprised if those guys made $600-700k a year.
I guess there are high paying jobs out there - but you would (almost) have to pay your life for them in return. Bottom line, don’t get into dentistry for money - unless you are going to work very hard and have a serious delayed gratification.
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That’s right. Future dentists will have to work harder…..they’ll have to put in similar amount of work hours as the MDs in order to earn similar income as the MDs. That’s why I want my kids to pursue medicine because they don’t have a choice to work any day/hour that they want to like the dentists….they have to follow the policies at the hospital that they work for. There are also more specialties and subspecialties in medicine for them to choose. IMO, there are only 2 dental specialties that are worth pursuing: ortho and OS.
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OP. I'll just post this again. I get it. Your parents are paying for your school. If your parents are super affluent .... then by all means ..... do what you want. If your parents are just trying to help you, are somewhat limited financially ..... then DO YOUR PARENTS A FAVOR ..... and follow @schmoob advice. Your parents can then INVEST in your future along with INVESTING in a future practice. WIN. WIN.
Investing (buying) a good future practice will be more important than all the bells and whistles at MWU. Your future practice will generate immediate revenue and allow you to CHOOSE what other dental procedures CE to take. There are many successful GPs here that choose to do bread and butter dentistry (by choice) and are very successful.
This combination of no DS debt. Parents helping to purchase dental practice. Will allow you and your parents to consider outside passive income such as rental properties.
Run this by your parents. See what they say. It's their decision also. Make sure they are informed.
SIGNED: PARENT who is not super wealthy.
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That was so helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out for me man, it really means so much!
I had a feeling OSU did that based off of how many specialty programs they have! It’s good to hear things from someone who’s gone through it instead of just assuming! Thank you for that!
I was also thinking the same thing as you. If I attend MWU, going to an AEGD is not an option. The cost of MWU is so high, a pricey AEGD + 1 year of lost income on top is not really feasible.
*****I have a follow-up question for you: *****
Some people on this thread have made the counter argument that all of the extra skills and experience gained from MWU can be picked up in 1 year of practicing real dentistry.
Therefore, they argue that it’s better to go somewhere like OSU and then pick things up as you practice.
That makes sense to me.
BUT, what I’m kinda confused about, is how do you learn those things, for example you said; cutting a flap, bridges, CAD/CAM, etc. WHILE practicing on patients/ when you’ve NEVER done it before???
Are all of you who didn’t learn these things in school just doing CE’s to learn this as time goes on? Or are you teaching yourself while practicing on patients
On top of this, I forget where, but I was reading a thread of dentists discussing Invisalign CE’s a while back saying the CE wasn’t enough and they still don’t feel comfortable/ knowledgeable/ confident enough to do it on their patients. Have you ever been in a position where a CE did not prepare you well enough to start preforming the procedure in practice?
—> How well a CE prepares you to handle real-world/ non-textbook cases is something I’ve really been stressing about when trying to answer this question. Confidence and Knowledge are huge imo. I don’t want to have to “guess” my way through my first few cases of a new-to-me procedure. Patients deserve better than that.
Thanks again for taking the time out to comment! I’ve been burning myself out ever since I posted this question looking into all kinds of things not normally mentioned in the pre-dent section like “% of class that went on to AEGD per school” and tax rules for dentistry (like how CE’s for new skills are no longer tax deductible beginning in 2018) etc etc. There are so many more factors involved that I never knew about! But what you said really helps clear things up a bit more. Thank You
No problem. It's true that you can pick up those skills one year out of practice - but will you? That depends on your situation. I think for most people, the answer is no. But not all. For example, two very close friends from my class are picking up those skills because one of them works with his mom, and the other found a practice with a great mentor.
No matter where you go, I would look for a place to work after school where you can be mentored. That is more crucial than anything, in my opinion. People that go through the Army AEGD-1 are supposed to be about 5 years ahead of their peers that go straight into practice, but it all varies, of course.
I learned all those skills with my mentors - I studied the cases beforehand, identified factors that were unique to those patients, presented to mentors, and went for it. It wasn't always pretty - sometimes it's still not. But whether we like it or not, someone has to be your first patient for each procedure. I'm still improving on things today.
In terms of CE, I would argue that a lot of time, it is NOT enough to just have the CE. I'd recommend trying to study the material, taking detailed notes, and observing someone else before attempting it yourself. I did this for TMD evals, and feel much better about discussing treatment options and troubleshooting with patients now. You can't just attend a CE course and say, "TMD? Night guard for you!" It takes practice and repetition. You learn as you go.
The best CE, hands down, are the ones where you actually do the thing you're learning about. These ones will make you much more confident. If you go to an implant CE with just lectures, it obviously won't compare to the $30,000 week-long course where you place 30 implants on actual patients, do sinus augmentation, membrane placement, and bone grafting. So consider carefully how you want to spend your time and money on CE.
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That was so helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out for me man, it really means so much!
I had a feeling OSU did that based off of how many specialty programs they have! It’s good to hear things from someone who’s gone through it instead of just assuming! Thank you for that!
I was also thinking the same thing as you. If I attend MWU, going to an AEGD is not an option. The cost of MWU is so high, a pricey AEGD + 1 year of lost income on top is not really feasible.
*****I have a follow-up question for you: *****
Some people on this thread have made the counter argument that all of the extra skills and experience gained from MWU can be picked up in 1 year of practicing real dentistry.
Therefore, they argue that it’s better to go somewhere like OSU and then pick things up as you practice.
That makes sense to me.
BUT, what I’m kinda confused about, is how do you learn those things, for example you said; cutting a flap, bridges, CAD/CAM, etc. WHILE practicing on patients/ when you’ve NEVER done it before???
Are all of you who didn’t learn these things in school just doing CE’s to learn this as time goes on? Or are you teaching yourself while practicing on patients
On top of this, I forget where, but I was reading a thread of dentists discussing Invisalign CE’s a while back saying the CE wasn’t enough and they still don’t feel comfortable/ knowledgeable/ confident enough to do it on their patients. Have you ever been in a position where a CE did not prepare you well enough to start preforming the procedure in practice?
—> How well a CE prepares you to handle real-world/ non-textbook cases is something I’ve really been stressing about when trying to answer this question. Confidence and Knowledge are huge imo. I don’t want to have to “guess” my way through my first few cases of a new-to-me procedure. Patients deserve better than that.
Thanks again for taking the time out to comment! I’ve been burning myself out ever since I posted this question looking into all kinds of things not normally mentioned in the pre-dent section like “% of class that went on to AEGD per school” and tax rules for dentistry (like how CE’s for new skills are no longer tax deductible beginning in 2018
This is the unspoken truth of dentistry. You are practicing on patients. There are many dentists out there who have never done the procedure before, who will either have taken a non-patient course or watched a youtube video and perform the procedure right afterwards. The difference in a program is if you screw it up, you have someone to bail you out. In PP, either you bail yourself out or you have a specialist bail you out. Not everyone has the balls or guts to think on the fly like that and will shrivel into a helpless ball when things go wrong. We're lucky that dentistry is not rocket science. If you have a strong foundation and understanding of the fundamentals of dentistry, you can bail yourself out of anything. That is what it means to be a doctor. Even with all the training the world, the world(s) best specialists can still screw up to where you cannot proceed with that specific treatment modality. This is why in weekend courses, they tell you to stick with simple, refer the hard. One, it's not worth your time, Two, you might get in over your head.
I think it all depends on your level of training/understanding and your confidence level. If you're the type that panics and needs an instructor to hold your hand all the time, a program would be better. If you're the type that thinks they should obturate a tooth with burnt paper points (a classmate did this), then you should go into a program.
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Also, as a side note - OSU is likely in for some big changes (hopefully). They just spent about $95 million on additions to the dental school, so perhaps it will be epic. Might change some things for new students.
dentistry.osu.edu
Postle Hall Expansion | College of Dentistry
Welcome to Ohio's only state-supported dental school. The Ohio State University College of Dentistry has embraced its public purpose of educating exceptionally capable and compassionate dental hygiene and dental professionals, providing care to patients, conducting cutting-edge research, and...
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Will the tuition go up? That’s the only question that really matters.Also, as a side note - OSU is likely in for some big changes (hopefully). They just spent about $95 million on additions to the dental school, so perhaps it will be epic. Might change some things for new students.
Postle Hall Expansion | College of Dentistry
Welcome to Ohio's only state-supported dental school. The Ohio State University College of Dentistry has embraced its public purpose of educating exceptionally capable and compassionate dental hygiene and dental professionals, providing care to patients, conducting cutting-edge research, and...
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Hello Everyone,
Before I ask my question, a little back-story:
I got accepted into MWU-AZ. I have no desire to specialize and only want to go into general dentistry. For those that are unfamiliar with the program, it is a private school that is from what I've seen, one of, if not THE most advanced dental schools in the country. The school was opened a little over 10 years ago and they have all of the latest tech for students to use and learn. They also do not have any speciality programs, so when complicated cases come in requiring something like an implant or bone grafting, they have their DMD students do it instead of one of their speciality students. Students at this school also seem to do a substantially higher amount of procedures/cases than students at other schools and the school also allows you to get certified in a bunch of different things such as Invisalign before graduating, which I haven't seen at any of the other schools I have interviewed at offer. Not going to lie, their sales pitch did blow me away. That being said, their COA blew me away too
*My parents will pay for everything so I will not pay any interest or have any loans. Flat out, it should cost us about $500k over 4 years ($10,500/ month). This is including tuition increases and living expenses.*
I talked to recent grads from OSU, NYU, and CWRU during my shadowing experiences and they all told me AEGD's are essential as schools don't train you enough clinically and they don't feel prepared enough to tackle things on their own. However, after touring MWU, I really don't think anyone from here would need to pursue an AEGD if they made the most of their experience.
Now for my QUESTION:
Do you believe the higher tuition would be worth it? Is it worth paying around $120k more for the 4 years, but then going straight into corporate dentistry and making $120-150k instead of doing a AEGD? Or would you rather go to the cheaper school, and then spend an additional year (of lost income) doing an AEGD? Orrrrr would you just do 4 years at a cheaper state school and then go straight into corporate dentistry and learn/ gain experience on corp's dime while also making $120-150k??
My goal is to own my own clinic 2-3 years out of dental school and I want to be the most knowledgable dentist possible so I can take on as many cases as I can. Basically I'm just looking for guidance on what path would make me the best dentist while also being the most cost-effective.
Any input or opinions would be greatly appreciated
There is no shortcut to experience or a good AEGD/GPR. Just because you do a few more crowns or endos or whatever at MWU vs another school it doesn't mean much in the long run. Just because you place a few implants as a D4 doesnt mean you are competent in them and can do it in private practice upon graduating. It's a whole different thing when there is no faculty to turn to or bail you out. Dentistry is hard, and fancy schools with new equipment won't make you any better than the new grads at some old run down state school on the east coast with specialty programs. Every school has its pros and cons.
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I think those numbers are inflated/inaccurate. Maybe if you're referring to regional managers with several years of climbing up the ladder at these fast food chains..but these big manager jobs come with fierce competition. My best friend was a manager at Mcdonalds and made 45k...and worked like CRAZY. There aren't many 24-26 year old chipotle managers making 100k ...meanwhile theres plenty of 25-26 year old average bottom of the class dentists who went to state schools making 150k out of school, with their loans paid of by early 30s and then have financial freedom. Just trying to be realistic if we are offering alternative career paths
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Statistics show dentists don’t reach financial independence that early, the retirement age has been rising for a while now. Student loans + practice loans + doctor lifestyle takes a toll on the finances.
Saying that dentists will reach financial independence by early 30s is pretty unrealistic especially for the next generation of dentists.
If you want to reach FI by early 30’s go into investment banking not dentistry or medicine.
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A simple google search can confirm this:
Chipotle $95k:
Chipotle Employees Can Make <em>How</em> Much Per Year?
Chipotle Employees Can Make <em>How</em> Much Per Year?
Taco Bell $100k:
Taco Bell to test $100K salary for general managers
The QSR will implement the new base pay at select company-owned locations later this year. It also added a minimum of 24 hours of paid sick leave for all employees.
Walmart average is $175k (top tier makes $300k):
Walmart says its US store managers make an average of $175,000 a year
On Wednesday, Walmart released its first Environmental, Social and Governance Report, disclosing the average salary of U.S. store managers and how much hourly workers make by comparison.
$300k is probably underpaid to manage a workforce of 200-400 people working at each Walmart store.
There are other high paying jobs out there...
In-N-Out Burger managers: $170k
Amazon L7 and L8 managers: $400-700k
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The question is how easy is it to get one of these highly paid manager jobs? What are the requirements? I am pretty sure you cannot just walk in with the application and walk out with a $150-200k manager job offer. If it's that simple, I would tell my kids to forget about school and go ahead play the video games with their friends.A simple google search can confirm this:
Chipotle $95k:
Chipotle Employees Can Make <em>How</em> Much Per Year?
Chipotle Employees Can Make <em>How</em> Much Per Year?www.huffpost.com
Taco Bell $100k:
Taco Bell to test $100K salary for general managers
The QSR will implement the new base pay at select company-owned locations later this year. It also added a minimum of 24 hours of paid sick leave for all employees.www.restaurantdive.com
Walmart average is $175k (top tier makes $300k):
Walmart says its US store managers make an average of $175,000 a year
On Wednesday, Walmart released its first Environmental, Social and Governance Report, disclosing the average salary of U.S. store managers and how much hourly workers make by comparison.www.cnbc.com
$300k is probably underpaid to manage a workforce of 200-400 people working at each Walmart store.
There are other high paying jobs out there...
In-N-Out Burger managers: $170k
Amazon L7 and L8 managers: $400-700k
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Now that's funny. I didn't know you had a sense of humor.
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People who have worked in retail or one of these jobs know the reality of it. Grass is always greener right?
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To be fair, getting into dental/medical school is definitely no walk in the park either
I always used to think everyone should stay in school, go to college and beyond, because this is what I've been spoon fed all my life: More Schooling = More Success. However, as I grow older and experience the world for myself, I see things differently now. Schools are really expensive, and a lot of my peers are learning the hard way that what their parents taught them isn't true, just because they have all these degrees and all this education it doesn't mean that they will be successful in life. Some people are just not meant to go to college, likewise, some people are not meant to go through dental education (for example if they got into a school which costs 600k+ and they have no parental assistance), and that's perfectly fine!
Your kids are different, because they have you as a parent. Most kids are not that fortunate
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Anything worth doing is never a walk in the park. Dentistry definitely lost some glitter over the years - more than any other 6 figure jobs for sure.
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I'm curious, do you think dentistry is just going through a rough patch right now?
From what I've read something similar happened in the 1970s: busyness was down, saturation was high, income stagnating. However, the market corrected itself eventually. Schools closed down, saturation issue was fixed. Dental expenditures rose at a high rate. By the 90s, dentistry was a great career again.
To me it seems the 2010s is similar to the 1970s, same problems. Saturation, stagnating income, dentists not busy enough. My guess is that the 2020s could be the same as the 1980s. Schools closing (application #'s have already been dropping the past few years), higher expenditures, lower saturation due to schools closing and smaller classs sizes
In fact, based on this graph it seems dental expenditures per capita are rebounding, which is good news.
Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services
Graph and download economic data for Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services (DENSERPCHCSA) from 2000 to 2021 about dental, healthcare, medical, health, expenditures, per capita, services, and USA.
fred.stlouisfed.org
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According to the ADA, 2 in 3 dentists reported their patient volume stayed the same or went down in 2018 compared to 2017. 1 in 4 reported they are not busy enough. This is only going to get to worse with more new grads entering the workforce.I'm curious, do you think dentistry is just going through a rough patch right now?
From what I've read something similar happened in the 1970s: busyness was down, saturation was high, income stagnating. However, the market corrected itself eventually. Schools closed down, saturation issue was fixed. Dental expenditures rose at a high rate. By the 90s, dentistry was a great career again.
To me it seems the 2010s is similar to the 1970s, same problems. Saturation, stagnating income, dentists not busy enough. My guess is that the 2020s could be the same as the 1980s. Schools closing (application #'s have already been dropping the past few years), higher expenditures, lower saturation due to schools closing and smaller classs sizes
In fact, based on this graph it seems dental expenditures per capita are rebounding, which is good news.
Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services
Graph and download economic data for Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services (DENSERPCHCSA) from 2000 to 2021 about dental, healthcare, medical, health, expenditures, per capita, services, and USA.fred.stlouisfed.org
Majority of states have a moderate to a very competitive dental insurance market - which is associated with low practice ownership, and more large group practices and corporate offices. This trend will also continue in the long term.
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Holy cow there is some extreme disconnect from reality in here. Retail managers do not make much more that $100k. I worked in fulfilment at Amazon from 2014 - 2015 and Target retail management 2015 - 2016. I can tell you from experience there is no retail managers at Target that are making anywhere close to 200k. Straight out of college we were paying kids 45k - 49k plus benefits. Even the district managers who were oversaw 7-8 stores were not making 200k. I have a friend at WalMart and their compensation is on par with Target.
There is no one that works in an Amazon FC making 500K - 700k, not even remotely close. When I worked there, the average turnover for an Area Manager was 9 months. I routinely worked 80 hour weeks, had over 100 employees, and all of this was on night shift. I have friends who are still there and starting pay for kids coming straight out of college is more than Target but not much more since they no longer give stock grants. Dentistry can be a way better option than these jobs. To give you some perspective, compared to my old jobs, dental school has felt like a vacation and been relatively easy.
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So for Walmart managers making $175k/year on average - you are disagreeing with the company’s own report on that compensation?
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I looked it up, and Amazon L7 and L8 managers do indeed make over 400-500k. Cold Front was telling the truth.
In fact, L8 managers can make up to 1 million a year in total compensation. It's nuts!
Amazon Software Engineer Salaries | $165K-$611K+ | Levels.fyi
Software Engineer compensation at Amazon ranges from $165K per year for SDE I to $611K per year for Principal SDE. The median compensation package totals $190K. Get a look into the base, stock, and bonus package breakdowns as well as Amazon's standard stock vesting schedule.
www.levels.fyi
That being said, I wouldn't want to be an Amazon manager anyways. The work just doesn't interest me, like dentistry does. I'll have a much higher chance of success in a career I'm passionate about than a career I hate.
However if you're only in it for the money, being an Amazon manager ain't a bad deal.... even lower level managers (L5-L6) are making 200k+
I looked it up, and Amazon L7 and L8 managers do indeed make over 400-500k. Cold Front was telling the truth.
In fact, L8 managers can make up to 1 million a year in total compensation. It's nuts!
Amazon Software Engineer Salaries | $165K-$611K+ | Levels.fyi
Software Engineer compensation at Amazon ranges from $165K per year for SDE I to $611K per year for Principal SDE. The median compensation package totals $190K. Get a look into the base, stock, and bonus package breakdowns as well as Amazon's standard stock vesting schedule.
That being said, I wouldn't want to be an Amazon manager anyways. The work just doesn't interest me, like dentistry does. I'll have a much higher chance of success in a career I'm passionate about than a career I hate.
However if you're only in it for the money, being an Amazon manager ain't a bad deal.... even lower level managers (L5-L6) are making 200k+
Level 8 directors do not work in the fulfilment centers, they oversee a US region of Amazon centers. This would be on par with the CEO of a large DSO. The link for your level 5-6 is for engineers who work at corporate or on the west coast. Extremely high cost of living with a lot of their compensation is in stock grants and benefits. These are not people who work in the fulfilment centers. I left as a level 5. Level 5 - 6 operation managers in the fulfilment centers do not make 200k+.
So for Walmart managers making $175k/year on average - you are disagreeing with the company’s own report on that compensation?
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175K is not anywhere close to 300K, not even close to 200K.
- It's an average so it lumps those extremely high cost of living areas with those that are not.
- That's total compensation, not salary
- The store manager is the highest level in the store. There's usually only one of them per store
I agree with y'all that it's not bad money. I was very comfortable when I worked for Amazon and Target but they come with other opportunity cost. There is no work life balance. These jobs are a lifestyle. The business need comes first. Divorce is very high. You will work most holidays. If you think managing a small dental staff is stressful, imagine managing hundreds of people. I've fired more people than most dentist will work with their entire career. I can't speak much to dentistry yet, but I can tell y'all about this other side that you think is so much greener.
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If the economy continues to grow, and therefore people see opportunity elsewhere, it will help in the self correction because students will have access to an easier path to financial success without all of the sacrifice required to be a doctor. Culturally, I think that kids who are growing up on Netflix will also be less inclined to attempt medical/dental simply because they aren’t inundated with garbage television programming that idolizes the concept of being a doctor, unlike network television, which is a revolving door of doctor/police/firefighter/lawyer television shows; if it isn’t in the ethos, these jobs will be an afterthought because kids will see other scenarios in a positive light and be drawn to those careers from an early age.I'm curious, do you think dentistry is just going through a rough patch right now?
From what I've read something similar happened in the 1970s: busyness was down, saturation was high, income stagnating. However, the market corrected itself eventually. Schools closed down, saturation issue was fixed. Dental expenditures rose at a high rate. By the 90s, dentistry was a great career again.
To me it seems the 2010s is similar to the 1970s, same problems. Saturation, stagnating income, dentists not busy enough. My guess is that the 2020s could be the same as the 1980s. Schools closing (application #'s have already been dropping the past few years), higher expenditures, lower saturation due to schools closing and smaller classs sizes
In fact, based on this graph it seems dental expenditures per capita are rebounding, which is good news.
Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services
Graph and download economic data for Medical Services Expenditures per Capita by Provider: Dental Services (DENSERPCHCSA) from 2000 to 2021 about dental, healthcare, medical, health, expenditures, per capita, services, and USA.fred.stlouisfed.org
Realistically, I can see the trend in saturation continue, but again, based on the two points I highlighted, I could see things changing, the same way that you pointed out that they did, many decades ago.
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I'll be curious to see the ADEA dental school applicant statistics for the 2019 cycle to see if the applicant #'s really are decreasing. The number of applicants in 2007 was 13.7k for 4.6k seats, and in 2018 it was 11.3k for 6.1k seats. The number of seats are growing but the # of applicants are decreasing.
The acceptance rate is also increasing, from 33% in 2007 to 54.5% in 2018. In comparison the acceptance rate for med school is around 40%. If the acceptance rate gets too high for dental school (~70%), then that will severely devalue the dental degree imo
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It’s interesting to see that even though more students are being accepted, that statistically (GPA, DAT) the trend has been that schools are accepting more and more competitive students; but as you point out, with more schools being added, if there was the combination of also having less applicants; it seems likely that schools will have to accept less competitive applicants. How much less competitive though, is a good question that these programs will have to ask themselves when trying to fill seats, as it could open them up to risk of students who may not be able to handle the rigor of the science courses, and will only truly know later on in their dental school careers due to there being only 1 integrated board exam. Now we are thinking like school deans lol.
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Yeah I noticed that too. Despite the acceptance rate being higher, the average DAT and GPA has been rising. I'm not really sure how to interpret this though, it seems that there is less people competing for more spots, but for some reason the average stats needed for acceptance are rising. These next 10 years will probably show a lot about what the future of dentistry and dental education is all about.
If dental schools start accepting applicants with 2.5 GPA's and 15 AA's as the norm just to fill seats, then it would be pretty concerning for the patients imo. I have a lot of peers in that academic range and I can tell those are not the type of people I want operating on me or my teeth. I don't believe high grades make a good dentist, however low grades may show a lack of motivation, work ethic, and maturity needed to become a good dentist.
My friend has been working as a Transportation Area Manager at one of Amazon warehouses in the Midwest for a few years. She makes nowhere near $100k. A quick search can show you the average salary for that job title is around $70k, slightly lower or higher depends on location. She has an awful schedule, works a lot of night shifts, always tired from work. I would not want that job at all.
Another friend has been working as a Software Engineer at Amazon Seattle since 2014. He started at around $95k, and now he’s at $140k which is similar to what a new dentist makes. But he’s also an incredibly smart, talented computer science guy. Not all CS people graduate and get those sorts of jobs that make that much money. Whereas your average or even below average dentist can make $130-140k in their first year relatively easily.
Another friend has been working as a Software Engineer at Amazon Seattle since 2014. He started at around $95k, and now he’s at $140k which is similar to what a new dentist makes. But he’s also an incredibly smart, talented computer science guy. Not all CS people graduate and get those sorts of jobs that make that much money. Whereas your average or even below average dentist can make $130-140k in their first year relatively easily.
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deleted903013
I feel like most desirable careers are getting saturated. Pharmacy, law, dentistry, any STEM PhD, and there even seem to be DO schools popping up. Bachelor's degrees use to mean something, now they mean next to nothing because everyone has one. People know there's money to be made in higher education.
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schmoob
Strong words. But there is a holistic admissions approach for a reason. People have circumstances that can affect their grades.
For example, I got into dental school with below average stats. But I also had a demanding full time job, a family to support, wife, and two small children. Have you ever tried studying physics at 3am while feeding and changing a newborn and knowing you need to get ready for work in two hours? Not everyone has the same circumstances and me getting into dental school with below average grades was damn well not because of a lack of motivation, work ethic, or maturity. You need to at least touch a typodont before making generalizations about dentistry.
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Way to grasp at a strawman argument. Not every kid with below average stats has all the problems you mentioned. And a lot of above average students have to deal with all the problems you mention. It's ironic how you call me out for generalizing, but you do the exact same thing. How do you know students with high grades don't go through hardships in life? I know I've personally been through hardships in life way worse than anything you have mentioned, but I don't use that as an excuse.
I support a holistic admissions process. I'm sure there are low stat applicants being accepted today who will make great dentists, better than a lot of high stat applicants. Circumstances definitely matter. Please notice how I said low grades may show a lack of motivation and work ethic. There are obviously outliers like yourself and that's why a holistic admissions process exists. I figured since this is a doctor forum I wouldn't have to spell everything out, but I suppose I should have been more pedantic.
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schmoob
You’re not a doctor
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Stu, you're a dentist. Don't try and get fancy
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deleted903013
DDS = Doctor of Dental Surgery
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Dentists are doctors...don’t try and belittle your profession of choice. Maybe once you start school you’ll understand.
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Damn I guess you guys have never watched The Hangover
It was a joke..... tough crowd haha
It was a joke..... tough crowd haha
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schmoob
Haha I didn’t get the reference
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deleted903013
I've never seen the movie so I had no chance at getting it haha
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It's all good. I recommend watching the entire Hangover trilogy, really fun!
And for the record, I agree, dentists are doctors.
And for the record, I agree, dentists are doctors.
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Gotta love how every thread on here turns into an argument unrelated to the OP
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I get it now haha...to busy studying that I haven't watched a movie in a long time! lol
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Just like at the beginning of every new EPL season for Arsenal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Logged in just to lol at this.
