MSTP Cycle 2011-2012 (URM Style)

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TTSBT

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Hello, everyone!

I am currently a college senior. I plan to apply to MSTPs as a URM female for the 2011-2012 application cycle. I am passionate about research and teaching, especially as means to profoundly benefit the lives of way more patients than I feel I could treat through solely practicing. However, I know myself and the fact that I won't really be comfortable committing to a lifetime of research without REALLY doing it full-time first. Therefore, although I will be graduating in May 2011, I opted to take a year off for full-time research before starting med school.

This my attempt to start an active thread for prospective, current, and graduated URM MSTP students to share concerns, advice, encouragement, etc. I don't know of a single URM female MD-PhD or MD who both practices and researches at my undergrad institution... so that perspective would also be incredibly valuable. Please, please, please feel free to offer any of the above. I'm praying that I won't be in this alone. :-D

I realize that this might seem a bit early, but I don't like surprises when it comes to handling business... and would like to learn as much about the MSTP process as possible before applications even open. Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Best of luck and blessings to those currently in the application process... I SERIOUSLY feel for each of you.

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Happy Holidays folks!

I'm a first year MD-PhD student, also a urm, also a woman. I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm happy to answer questions and share my honest opinion if you want it. The application process wasn't too long ago. When it comes to more future questions like (what's the transition from the PhD to wards like?) I can't speak from experience, but I can try to find out from older students in my program.

And TTBST, I think taking a year of is a great idea. I did it, a lot of people in my class have as well. You'll really get a chance to focus on research and see if it's what you want to do. You also are less likely to be burned out when you start school. Female, urm physician-scientists aren't very common, but they are definitely out there. One of the coolest part of the application process is meeting them and hearing about their experiences. Try to make sure you have a really good mentor, who is supportive of you. MD and/or PhD, female or male, urm or not, you need someone who is in research on your side.
 
I received a PM request to stop by this thread. Haven't posted on sdn in years, but always happy to give advice to other folks. I'm a female URM in my 5th year at an MSTP. I also serve on my program's admissions committee and work on urm recruitment, so I have a pretty good perspective on these issues. Let me know if anyone has specific questions (but please don't ask me about the status of your application at my university; I can't answer questions like that).

We're gonna be hard-pressed to find urm female physician scientist mentors anywhere (I have yet to interact with any that I can recall), so it's definitely frustrating and adds an extra level of stress to an already stressful process.
 
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I greatly appreciate your responses and willingness to help. Thank you so very much!

For starters... how did you decide to which programs to apply? My plan is to compare programs to make an applying list then research those on the list in detail to better prepare for applying to each. However, I'm not sure how to make a good apply list.

Things I've considered so far...
*Research - I'm really into immunology, so I have been looking into the faculty research interests in this area at different MSTPs. However, I am also open to other areas (except genetics, physics, or engineering). What is the best way to determine how strong programs are in specific areas?
*Location - Honestly, if the program's really strong in my area(s) of choice, weather isn't going to matter to me. However, I would like a program in a city where I can reasonably survive off the stipend. Do you know of any programs in particular where I should expect to not be able to live comfortably off of the stipend alone?
*Curriculum - I've been looking into how well the programs integrate medical and graduate years, including clinical refreshers during the graduate years, as well as the special requirements of MSTPs. Any other things I should be considering?
*Extracurriculars - It's really important to me to be able to get out and get involved in the community regardless of how busy I am with school. My ideal program would be one that encourages students to get involved, especially in the health of their surrounding community. Am I being to idealistic? Do MSTPs really have/make time for this?
*Program Rank - US News and NIH funding
=> I am below average for all programs (3.5 BCPM, 3.65 AO, 3.55 Cum... Taking MCAT in spring) but I'm not giving up hope... just trying to strategize a way of applying that maximize my chances as well. Any suggestions?
*Other Ideas? - I know that I must be missing alot of important things to consider in applying.

Again, thanks for your help!
 
I've heard from several of the medical students at my undergrad university that it's better to attend medical school in a city due to the better clinical exposure. However, I'm not sure if they're just biased because we are are in an urban area. Any thoughts on this? Any other less obvious implications for location in deciding on a medical school? Can you think of any real advantages/disadvantages in terms of the quality of medical education of attending programs in certain locations over others (rural v. urban, west v. east, south v. north, etc.)?

Thanks!
Oh... and Happy Holidays!
 
Warning! I write long responses, but I try to give thorough answers so bear with my long-windedness.

When it came to deciding where to apply, I sort of just applied everywhere. My PI at the time, who was involved with MD/PhD admissions at my undergrad, said apply everywhere and see what you get. My reasoning is apply to as many places that you have the time and money to apply to. (This is something to consider, b/c I ran out of money to go to my last two interviews, so I had to turn them down.) It will cost more time and money to reapply. I applied to 14 schools initially. I wouldn't be so focused, because it was during interviews and talking to students that I started to see what I liked and didn't like between different programs. I started with locations that I liked (think where you'd like to live now and when you're 30?), schools known to be strong in my area of interest (asking advisors and other faculty can help with this), and rankings to get an idea of what is considered a reach, in range, and safety so that this list is diverse.

Back to your bullet points:

*Location: As far as stipend, those can to change so I wouldn't worry about it until decision time. At interviews, you get a better sense of how students manage live on the stipend. I don't want to call out programs specifically (you can PM me for that), but I did decide against some schools in very expensive cities (NYC or Boston in particular) because I suspected that it was very hard to live in the city on the stipend unless I stayed in the dorms or lived in a tiny apartment. I was not loving the idea of being 30 and in a cruddy dorm. I would advise you to watch out for very expensive cities. (I will say Hahvahd has very nice dorms, but still...)

Regarding better experience, that probably is true that you'll see more variety of cases in cities. A lot schools definitely use it as a selling point. Also schools affliated with major medical centers are going to have a lot of variety because people travel from all over to be treated there.

*Curriculum: Penn actually has formal courses about the integration of science and medicine for its MSTP students, I can't remember if any other schools did. I have mixed feelings about extra courses and requirements. I think its very important to learn how to integrate science and medicine and I was all for anything formal to support that, but now that I'm a first year those extra courses, if not done right can detract from all the other stuff you have to learn and become really annoying. I'm a particularly grumpy first-year so it just might be me. ;-)

Most programs seemed to have the clinical refreshers, shadowing type programs during research years, I do think these are great to have. What might be ideal is if the programs offer but don't require additional things. Flexibility in a program is BIG. What you find important now and once you've started school could be very different, so flexibility can really help you get what you need out of the MSTP. During the application cycle, I really wanted to have a curriculum that allowed me clinical rotations before going into the research years.
*Extracurriculars: At most places you can absolutely be involved. I have a lot of friends in my programs doing other things. You don't have tons of free time, but you will have it and you can do what you want with it.
*Ranking: People may disagree with me, but all I will say is use this to make sure your list is diverse, but don't not apply somewhere b/c of rankings or scores. You have no idea how well (or not so well) things will go. I fully didn't expect to end up where I did, almost didn't apply. Just make sure you've got safeties too.

*Stats: I can't say much for stats besides, for MCAT 30 is the magic number. People absolutely get in with less (so don't give up if you don't reach that target), but if you can get at least 10 in each section you'll have an easier time. Your grades aren't bad, I think schools factor in your major and your undergrad institution when considering GPA. I have no idea how they do that though.

There's stuff that you want to consider while you're interviewing an deciding (I'll leave that for another long winded post though), but for now keep it general. Maybe look at the cost of applying and figure out how many schools you can afford to apply to. Once you have the number then you can get an idea of how many reaches and safeties you can have.

Hope this helps! :)

I greatly appreciate your responses and willingness to help. Thank you so very much!

For starters... how did you decide to which programs to apply? My plan is to compare programs to make an applying list then research those on the list in detail to better prepare for applying to each. However, I'm not sure how to make a good apply list.

Things I've considered so far...
*Research - I'm really into immunology, so I have been looking into the faculty research interests in this area at different MSTPs. However, I am also open to other areas (except genetics, physics, or engineering). What is the best way to determine how strong programs are in specific areas?
*Location - Honestly, if the program's really strong in my area(s) of choice, weather isn't going to matter to me. However, I would like a program in a city where I can reasonably survive off the stipend. Do you know of any programs in particular where I should expect to not be able to live comfortably off of the stipend alone?
*Curriculum - I've been looking into how well the programs integrate medical and graduate years, including clinical refreshers during the graduate years, as well as the special requirements of MSTPs. Any other things I should be considering?
*Extracurriculars - It's really important to me to be able to get out and get involved in the community regardless of how busy I am with school. My ideal program would be one that encourages students to get involved, especially in the health of their surrounding community. Am I being to idealistic? Do MSTPs really have/make time for this?
*Program Rank - US News and NIH funding
=> I am below average for all programs (3.5 BCPM, 3.65 AO, 3.55 Cum... Taking MCAT in spring) but I'm not giving up hope... just trying to strategize a way of applying that maximize my chances as well. Any suggestions?
*Other Ideas? - I know that I must be missing alot of important things to consider in applying.

Again, thanks for your help!
 
Thank you! This is great! I am also quite long-winded, so I understand. Even if I weren't, I still welcome any and all advice, long and short. I've spent some time making a list of schools. The list I started with was HUGE, including MSTPs and non-MSTP MD-PhDs. After knocking off the schools I absolutely do not see myself attending based on location, reputation, aspects of the program, and research interests, the list is at 30. I'm sure that I will be able to narrow the list down even more as I get further into the process, especially after visiting most of these places for the first time. However, I am trying to decide whether or not to aim to apply to even less schools from the start.

On one side, I hear people say 30 is too many when it comes to finances and secondaries. Honestly, I plan to get my AMCAS verified in June and focus solely on secondaries until they're complete. I won't let the burden of secondaries hold my back. However, I am a bit worried about wasting money applying to so many. I will say that my favorite programs are ALL top programs, so if I had to narrow done the list, I'd also be greatly decreasing my chances. I figure I'd rather spend the money to apply broadly once than to narrow the list and risk not getting in at all, given my lower than average stats. Rest assurred, although I have favorites, I could honestly see myself at 26 of the programs... the other 4 are safety measures. What do you think? Is 30 a bit much or justified? Also, I am not obligated to reveal my apply list to the schools, correct? Would you recommend me to not let schools know that I'm applying so broadly? I'm not sure if it looks bad or makes me seem indecisive. Can you think of any disadvantages to applying to 30 schools other than the things previously mentioned?

Also... on finances... I worked hard and saved big time for medical school applications and interviewing before even hearing about FAP. I thought I was going to have to go at it alone... so I saved instead of eating for months. :-D JOKING! No, seriously, thank God for hardwork and FAP! I am eligible for 14 free primaries under FAP. Therefore, I'd only be responsible for the other 16. I heard that most schools waive secondary fees for FAP applicants. Does anyone know if I'd be eligible for secondary waivers only from the 14 schools covered by FAP or also from the extra 16? I looked at the other threads on this, but couldn't find a definite answer. I know that I'll have to call up each school to see if they offer a secondary waiver, but the eligibility is something I'm not comfortable asking about... or maybe, I could ask AMCAS if no one here knows. I'm just trying to get a realistic idea of the upfront application costs. Oh, lord... and then there's interview expenses! How did you do it all without going completely broke?

Thanks!
 
So I do think 30 is too many. I applied to half as many any people were telling me that was too many. The thing is even with the fee waivers, applying to 16 schools is a lot of $$, and you probably do have to ask each school for a secondary waiver (estimate $80 per secondary, some were $100). Also applying to 30 schools is tedious. You don't want to risk burning out writing that many essays (while you can reuse and tweak a lot, with that many schools it'll probably get unwieldy). Even if you start in June. My AMCAS was submitted in July and I think my last secondary was submitted by the end of august/early september. Some schools send secondaries whenever and it's easy to get backed up. Also, when interviews come around schools only have so many dates so scheduling gets crazy and you may end up turning down interviews. More importantly burn out...interviewing is physically and mentally exhausting. You want to be your best at every one of them, but that might be hard by interview number 17.

I totally support applying everywhere you'd want to go, but you do have to make cuts because there is a point of diminishing returns. In retrospect I wish I had applied to fewer schools because I hadn't realized the amount of time and money it would consume. I could possibly see 15-20 max, even that'd be a lot. But 30 is nuts, don't do that to yourself.

You are not obligated to tell schools where you're applying, and they have no way of knowing (although I think they do talk a little). When they asked where else I was applying I either mentioned less competitive places or just vaguely say all over. You don't have to say more, I don't recommend that you do. If they don't think you'll go there they will more likely wait-list or reject.

I was working all last year and I sold my car to pay for the costs. But I ended up canceling 2 interviews at the end because I ran out of $. (I was working outside the country so it was travel cost more but still). I had 13-14 schools initially.

If you're having trouble cutting down the list, you could PM me your list. I might have interviewed at some of them, and I'd be willing to share my observations of the schools that I visited.



Thank you! This is great! I am also quite long-winded, so I understand. Even if I weren't, I still welcome any and all advice, long and short. I've spent some time making a list of schools. The list I started with was HUGE, including MSTPs and non-MSTP MD-PhDs. After knocking off the schools I absolutely do not see myself attending based on location, reputation, aspects of the program, and research interests, the list is at 30. I'm sure that I will be able to narrow the list down even more as I get further into the process, especially after visiting most of these places for the first time. However, I am trying to decide whether or not to aim to apply to even less schools from the start.

On one side, I hear people say 30 is too many when it comes to finances and secondaries. Honestly, I plan to get my AMCAS verified in June and focus solely on secondaries until they're complete. I won't let the burden of secondaries hold my back. However, I am a bit worried about wasting money applying to so many. I will say that my favorite programs are ALL top programs, so if I had to narrow done the list, I'd also be greatly decreasing my chances. I figure I'd rather spend the money to apply broadly once than to narrow the list and risk not getting in at all, given my lower than average stats. Rest assurred, although I have favorites, I could honestly see myself at 26 of the programs... the other 4 are safety measures. What do you think? Is 30 a bit much or justified? Also, I am not obligated to reveal my apply list to the schools, correct? Would you recommend me to not let schools know that I'm applying so broadly? I'm not sure if it looks bad or makes me seem indecisive. Can you think of any disadvantages to applying to 30 schools other than the things previously mentioned?

Also... on finances... I worked hard and saved big time for medical school applications and interviewing before even hearing about FAP. I thought I was going to have to go at it alone... so I saved instead of eating for months. :-D JOKING! No, seriously, thank God for hardwork and FAP! I am eligible for 14 free primaries under FAP. Therefore, I'd only be responsible for the other 16. I heard that most schools waive secondary fees for FAP applicants. Does anyone know if I'd be eligible for secondary waivers only from the 14 schools covered by FAP or also from the extra 16? I looked at the other threads on this, but couldn't find a definite answer. I know that I'll have to call up each school to see if they offer a secondary waiver, but the eligibility is something I'm not comfortable asking about... or maybe, I could ask AMCAS if no one here knows. I'm just trying to get a realistic idea of the upfront application costs. Oh, lord... and then there's interview expenses! How did you do it all without going completely broke?

Thanks!
 
I greatly appreciate your responses and willingness to help. Thank you so very much!

For starters... how did you decide to which programs to apply? My plan is to compare programs to make an applying list then research those on the list in detail to better prepare for applying to each. However, I'm not sure how to make a good apply list.

Things I've considered so far...
*Research - I'm really into immunology, so I have been looking into the faculty research interests in this area at different MSTPs. However, I am also open to other areas (except genetics, physics, or engineering). What is the best way to determine how strong programs are in specific areas?
*Location - Honestly, if the program's really strong in my area(s) of choice, weather isn't going to matter to me. However, I would like a program in a city where I can reasonably survive off the stipend. Do you know of any programs in particular where I should expect to not be able to live comfortably off of the stipend alone?
*Curriculum - I've been looking into how well the programs integrate medical and graduate years, including clinical refreshers during the graduate years, as well as the special requirements of MSTPs. Any other things I should be considering?
*Extracurriculars - It's really important to me to be able to get out and get involved in the community regardless of how busy I am with school. My ideal program would be one that encourages students to get involved, especially in the health of their surrounding community. Am I being to idealistic? Do MSTPs really have/make time for this?
*Program Rank - US News and NIH funding
=> I am below average for all programs (3.5 BCPM, 3.65 AO, 3.55 Cum... Taking MCAT in spring) but I'm not giving up hope... just trying to strategize a way of applying that maximize my chances as well. Any suggestions?
*Other Ideas? - I know that I must be missing alot of important things to consider in applying.

Again, thanks for your help!

I think I'm a bit late on this, but here's my experience (female disadvantaged applicant):

Research--Check the US News and World Report for your areas of interest (ranking of programs by area). Also, check with schools to find potential mentors at the school (very helpful if several researchers are doing research which interests you).

Location--Avoid NYC (except Mount Sinai and Yeshiva--student housing rather than NYC housing) or any big city without student housing. They are expensive, and a slightly higher stipend will not compensate for the cost of living.

Curriculum--Some programs have separate courses for MSTP students than the normal MD students (more research-based). Yeshiva does that. Most schools (well-established programs) have some integrated parts for MD/PhD students (great for mentoring from older students, too!).

Extracurriculars--I'm involved in about a dozen different activities during my medical school years. If you go to a school with Pass/Fail grading system, you may have more time for volunteering/mentoring/research during medical school.

Program Rank-- Don't worry about the stats you have. MD/PhD programs tend to focus on research above everything, as well as variety in their programs (area of research, URM, women, region of country). These help schools keep their funding or attain MSTP status. Do well on the MCAT (30 is a good number, 33 seems to be good enough for most MSTPs), and you'll be fine with substantial research and a desire to enter academic medicine.

I applied to every school which had the PhD options of interest to me (non-traditional areas) and ranked them according to my experiences at their interviews/location (I hate winter). I applied to about twenty programs, had interviews at 15, went to 11 interviews. I would rather spend money applying the first time and not have to apply again than try to apply to a few, not get in, and apply to quite a few the next year.

I don't want to call out programs either (just PM me if you want to chat more), but I will say that Johns Hopkins has an amazing mentoring program for URMs (Dr. Carson is really nice and stays involved in mentoring students) and that U Miami has quite a few URM students as well...

If you want to know anything more or chat about experiences, just PM me :) I love helping out :)
 
Nope! You're never too late to offer great advice and insight... thanks! This was very helpful.

Research - I used US News to help me, of course. Now, I'm looking into each school on my list for 5+ favorite mentors. If I can't find at least 5, then I'm scratching them off the list.

Location - I figured the NYC thing, but I just wanted to gauge whether people still thought it was worth it despite the huge cost of living. Also, places in CA scare me financially. This is good to hear that you also have similar reservations. I just never want to look back and regret not applying, but quality of life is a BIG DEAL for me, especially if I'm going to be packing up and leaving all I know for 7+ years. So, I have zero NYC or West coast schools on my list. Also, I cut out places I just know I don't want to live (e.g., Iowa).

Curriculum - Yes... I will make it a point to really look into these options whenever I interview. So far, all of the schools on my list seem to be about even in terms of curriculum. A few schools have really stood out for me, though, correct me if I'm wrong or if these are not unique... (1) Duke - condensed pre-clinical curriculum (2) Mayo - some clinical training before and during grad years (3) Penn - major flexibility in exploring/deciding graduate programs


Extracurriculars - Now that's good to know! I wouldn't have thought of that... but it makes sense. I will see which schools are true Pass/Fail schools. Question though... if they're truly P/F, how do they decide who's top of the class? They just don't rank at all or they use USMLE or something else?

Program Rank - Thanks! This makes me feel better. My P.I., an MD-PhD, is also under the impression that I could easily get into MSTPs. Let's just say... I'm confident but I'd rather air on the side of caution than arrogance.

ON APPLYING - My sentiments exactly--> I would rather spend money applying the first time and not have to apply again than try to apply to a few, not get in, and apply to quite a few the next year.

Thanks so much!
 
I have a new question... everyone please feel free to chime in: What is your take on applying to MSTPs with a specific interest versus applying with broad interests?

I have a several interests. I'm just not sure how to convey them to MSTPs without appearing indecisive or unfocused:

(1) Immunology - I have been doing immunology research for two years now and really enjoy it. I LOVE my current project dealing with transplantation and could see myself getting into broader areas of immunology, especially autoimmunity. Also, in my mind, it is one of the most relevant and applicable areas of research to medicine in general. A doctor taking time to understand and research immunology just makes sense to me. However, I am more interested in preventative measures and preserving health. I get the idea that most of well-funded immunology research these days is targeted at disease. Also, after taking an immunology graduate course last semester, I was a bit annoyed by the emphasis on memorizing complement activation, death pathways, signaling pathways, transcription factors, and all of the other tedious things instead of truly understanding and applying facts to concepts. I don't know... maybe this was just my experience rather than how it is across the board. Don't get me wrong though... I learned a ton from the class. I am still fully intrigued by my project and many of the projects I learned about through the class.

(2) Biochemistry - I am taking biochemistry now... LOVE it! Now, I am starting to think about possibly getting a PhD in a very basic science, like biochemistry. I feel like the knowledge gained in biochemistry is the basis for immunology and everything else that goes on in the body. I think I would be happy getting a PhD that really helps me get those basics down.

(3) Medical/Sociocultural Anthropology - I am an Anthropology and Biology major. Although majority of my classes have been in the sciences, I have also taken classes in cultural and medical anthropology. I am very interested in understanding and contributing to the effort to lessen the gap apparent in healthcare disparities. Naturally, as an African-American women, I am most interested in the health concerns specifically facing African-Americans, women, and those belonging to both groups. Although some people don't believe in it, arts and humanities such as anthropology work wonders in helping us make sense of our world and each other. I especially love critical medical anthropology, which calls for analyzing the role culture differences play in the creation of particular healthcare disparities. Two concerns with this: 1. I can't find a single MD-PhD in anthropology who actively practices medicine. Does this even happen? Those at my undergrad institution use their MD to inform their anthropology research but no longer practice medicine. 2. Wouldn't I have to apply to most schools by designating this interest since it is non-traditional? Would that greatly slim my chances of being accepted?

(4) Nutrition - Disclaimer: Perhaps the recent intensity of this long-time interest is coming from the fact that I watched Food, Inc. recently and felt so helpless... Regardless, I think that nutrition is something that everyone has in common. It is incredibly relevant to the health of all of us. Not everyone can afford the fancy drugs that drug companies and research labs produce, but everyone has to nourish their body. Also, this is something I've always struggled with... knowing I shouldn't be eating certain things because my family has a history of diabetes, but not really making the time to learn about healthy alternatives. Given my other interests in biochemistry and anthropology... I could see some kind of collaboration between either of these areas and nutrition.


Initially, I had planned to apply to MSTPs seeking an immunology PhD. I honestly just love learning... period... as nerdy as that sounds. As long as there is something in a field that I can latch onto and really be excited/passionate about, I could see myself doing it. The only things I ABSOLUTELY would not be happy doing are Physics, genetics, biostatics, or any intense math (with the exception of biomedical engineering). Now, I am undecided and wondering how in the world I am going to convey this to adcoms in a way that still makes them want me. Please help!
 
(3) Medical/Sociocultural Anthropology - I am an Anthropology and Biology major. Although majority of my classes have been in the sciences, I have also taken classes in cultural and medical anthropology. I am very interested in understanding and contributing to the effort to lessen the gap apparent in healthcare disparities. Naturally, as an African-American women, I am most interested in the health concerns specifically facing African-Americans, women, and those belonging to both groups. Although some people don't believe in it, arts and humanities such as anthropology work wonders in helping us make sense of our world and each other. I especially love critical medical anthropology, which calls for analyzing the role culture differences play in the creation of particular healthcare disparities. Two concerns with this: 1. I can't find a single MD-PhD in anthropology who actively practices medicine. Does this even happen? Those at my undergrad institution use their MD to inform their anthropology research but no longer practice medicine. 2. Wouldn't I have to apply to most schools by designating this interest since it is non-traditional? Would that greatly slim my chances of being accepted?

I too am an African-American female who majored in biology and anthropology. I've thought about going the MD/PhD route but decided I want MD-MPH dual degree route with a possible research fellowship down the road, eg the NIH loan repayment program for health disparities research.

Paul Farmer, co-creator of Partners In Health, got his MD/PhD with medical anthropology from Harvard medical school and still is an attending physician and teaches medical anthropology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_farmer
 
It sounds as if you really love immunology (which doesn't preclude nutrition or anthropology--lots of schools have epidemiology department that collaborate with basic scientists in this area). I'd suggest sticking with that for most schools to which you will apply. I can't think of an MD/PhD program that doesn't allow that area of research...

That being said, there are some wonderful programs which allow for a PhD in anthropology or nutrition. (U Kentucky has a PhD in nutrition as an option; UCSF, Stanford, U Chicago, UIC, and a few others offer anthropology.) Dr. Paul Farmer might be a good one to talk with if you are really serious about pursuing anthropology. He's a very down-to-earth kind of guy (a few of my friends and one of my advisors know him well), and I bet he'd be willing to give you some advice on how to do it. I don't know of any other MD/PhD anthropologists who practice and do research, but I'm sure that there a few out there (probably doing field work abroad).

Epidemiology might be another field of interest, as epidemiologists are sort of a high-brid between basic science and social science (probably could mix all of your interests)...
 
Glad someone made this thread!

It is great to see so many very intelligent black women pursuing this route...however my background is a bit different.

I graduated 08 with B.S. Biology(Southern HBCU) and for the past 3 yrs I have been roughly doing spotty jobs and now am doing a 1yr internship/research gig. I have uncovered a lot of my weaknesses---time management---and also a lost desire or drive---maybe age-related. Being that I am 25, and most ppl my age have given up on their "dream careers" due to not being accepted...I feel quite lonely in these endeavors. I did attend the 10th annual ABRCMS conference and it rejuvenated my confidence, desire, and drive as it was my first time to see so many refined and well spoken black aspiring professionals/researchers.



Back to reality, I have a 2.58 BCPM, 2.94 cum gpas and no MCAT(applicable). When I am done with this program I will have 1yr of clinical research with data management under my belt. Unfortunately, this program has not allowed in any way to help me become competitive in the MD/PhD route...at this age do I even try being that it could possibly take 3yrs or so to revitalize my stats?
Discouraged I am, but then my data manager states that she went back for her PhD at 30...and another colleague has gotten his PA degree as well as PhD. So many options!

I wanted to try and utilize this (NIH-PREP) program to get me in the door, into a PhD program, and then from there apply MD-PhD...this is very non-traditional and I phoned the schools that I was interested in and they pretty much said its feasible but I could sense this type of approach was not well-planned or supported by the different institutions.

Another blow to my plans was my feeble GRE score, of 870....470 verbal, 400 Quantitative.....but most of this is due to poor time management and I will be re-taking it soon.

I talked with the Pre-health coordinator here and I do not like her "generic" advice. She pretty much says I could get into any PhD program with the research I have now, the 3.12 GPA (this is my school GPA--AAMC GPA is grader)...and with a 1100+ on the GRE and for me to do the PhD and if I still wanted MD to simply do it after the PhD. Talking to other people do not help too as most of my PREP cohorts are saying drop the "MD" go for the PhD only.


Research: I too, like the above mentioned...share an interest in socio-cultural and medical anthropology, nutrition, immunology, genetics, and neuroscience. So I have very broad interests. But I do lean more towards nutrition and its relation to the many health disparities that I have worked on....so I may look into epidemiology or some basic science that kind of encompasses most of these interests.

So, where do I go? Because of my low science gpa it is very evident that I do not have a solid grounding on the basic sciences so for me, I need to rectify that even before I do a PhD..let alone MD/PhD....however, I am 5yrs from being 30 so do I just do the PhD and forgo the MD? or do MD and forgo the PhD?...if age was not a consideration than I would without a whim do both degrees but I would be lying if I didn't state that being a "professional" student is not my goal or what I want...meaning, I do not want to be in school all my life....and yes I know within these fields---science and medicine---its a life-learning pursuit/job....but still, I don't want to be in school ALL my life.

Any help, suggestions, comments, etc will be well received!


Thanks

EWO
 
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ewo,

Since you cGPA is very close to a 3, you could spend your time refining your GRE, and spending time at the Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs thread especially the stickies. There are some URM Special Masters programs (SMPs) out there, such as the Hampton Medical Masters program, and some are just 1 year in duration; an SMP, if done successfully, can improve your application greatly. Spending time crafting a great personal statement about what you have learned in your experiences in relation to medicine, your goals in medicine, and current drive would definitely help.

Also, how is 1 year of full-time clinical research not competitive? pre-MD/PhD students usually have around 2 years of research, but since they usually do it in school most do it only part-time. Plus, whether it's clinical or basic usually doesn't matter to adcoms; as long as you show dedication to research that's what matters.
 
Also, how is 1 year of full-time clinical research not competitive? pre-MD/PhD students usually have around 2 years of research, but since they usually do it in school most do it only part-time. Plus, whether it's clinical or basic usually doesn't matter to adcoms; as long as you show dedication to research that's what matters.

I don't normally post here, but I hope I can help a bit. For MD/PhD programs, clinical research is not what is typically considered. The majority of students are working on basic science projects, and clinical/epidemiological/sociocultural research will not help (in general) in MD/PhD admission. However, it will help in MD admission.

To Ewo: It would help for you to decide on what you want to do for a career. Do you want to do clinical work and see patients? Then you know you need to go to medical school. Do you want to also do research? If it is clinical research, then the MD is all you need. If you want to do basic science research, an MD is fine for that, but an MD/PhD program would provide integrated training.

It is NOT commonplace to join a PhD program as a means of entrance into an MD/PhD program. You should consider this as an impossibility (it just does not happen). It is relatively common for an MD student to join an MD/PhD program. MD/PhD programs are typically not completed in order to pursue epidemiological/socio-cultural research but rather designed for basic science research (ie: how this mutation affects this protein structure which affects this interaction with... etc). Please come read the MD/PhD forum (including stickies) and feel free to ask questions there.

Definitely figure out what you goals are in a career, and then figure out what steps you would like to take. A PhD is NOT a requirement at any means to do research, especially clinical research, and I fear you may not meet your expectations or waste time if you entered a PhD program with the hope of someday seeing patients.

I hope this help, and best of luck!
 
I've had a completely opposite experience with what StIGMA posted. I don't have basic research in my background. Never a problem, even for top MD/PhD programs. They look for diversity in research; most applicants enjoy basic science research and, thus, have research in these areas. If you can get something published, a lot of programs will notice your potential in research.

As for the GPA, MD/PhD is a little more lax with GPA and MCAT as long as you have amazing research and are competent in the sciences/math. I'd suggest raising the GRE score as much as you can and try a master's with a high gpa (maybe MPH or basic/social science). Also, URM/disadvantaged applicants are sought after for these programs, as many people applying are males, white, and middle class; programs need us to keep/attain MSTP status.

Don't worry about your age. Most of us take some time off, and I've known students in their 30s admitted to programs. We're in it for the long-haul, so a few extra years isn't a big deal...
 
To everyone: Hey guys I have read over every one's comments and views and I appreciate you all. I have quite a hill to climb and I know it will take an additional 2-3yrs. It has been mentioned a lot of times about socio-research, that is not what I currently do nor is it what I plan to do.
Again I appreciate everyones kind words and suggestions and for those of you who are truly set on this road I wish you nothing but success and hopefully it will come a day where it won't seem so foreign to see URM's in the academic realm as well as URM MD-PhDs.


P.S. I am speaking heavily with UIUC-Urbana Champaign because their MD/PhD program have a long-standing history of educating physicians with all sorts of diverse research interest and not just basic science and I feel this could potentially be the type of foundation and program that I could successfully become a part of. I am also trying to get concrete answer as to how plausible the PhD switch to MD-PhD could be. Also there are two more schools that allow this that are not MSTP funded but are MD-PhD so maybe it is more feasible outside of the NIH-funded route....I will keep you all inform, regardless I know this will not be easy.


P.P.S Do not misunderstand. I have both basic science interest as well as clinical but hesitate on getting a basic science PhD due to the time demand but I am hearing alot about schools like Baylor and others that push for a more translational aspect or dissertation...so that the student can make their research have medical relevance or be more medically applicable.
 
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Hey! I'm going to go ahead and resurrect this page because I've been following for such a long time! I'm also interested in an MD/PhD program, but I have my own reservations about the degree program. It just seems that based on data from 2008-2010, that the number of people in MD/PhD programs that are black is ridiculously low. I just wanted someone to comment on why this is the way it is. I'd also like to find out whether these programs are actually worried about these statistics? Also, do programs take into consideration the applicant's rigor of curriculum in terms of admission? Would love to hear a response! :D

And I guess a little background on myself: junior, bio + english double major and chem minor, location: SC, 1.5 years of research in animal facility (awesome microscopic surgeries), GPA: 3.67.
 
To everyone: Hey guys I have read over every one's comments and views and I appreciate you all. I have quite a hill to climb and I know it will take an additional 2-3yrs. It has been mentioned a lot of times about socio-research, that is not what I currently do nor is it what I plan to do.
Again I appreciate everyones kind words and suggestions and for those of you who are truly set on this road I wish you nothing but success and hopefully it will come a day where it won't seem so foreign to see URM's in the academic realm as well as URM MD-PhDs.


P.S. I am speaking heavily with UIUC-Urbana Champaign because their MD/PhD program have a long-standing history of educating physicians with all sorts of diverse research interest and not just basic science and I feel this could potentially be the type of foundation and program that I could successfully become a part of. I am also trying to get concrete answer as to how plausible the PhD switch to MD-PhD could be. Also there are two more schools that allow this that are not MSTP funded but are MD-PhD so maybe it is more feasible outside of the NIH-funded route....I will keep you all inform, regardless I know this will not be easy.


P.P.S Do not misunderstand. I have both basic science interest as well as clinical but hesitate on getting a basic science PhD due to the time demand but I am hearing alot about schools like Baylor and others that push for a more translational aspect or dissertation...so that the student can make their research have medical relevance or be more medically applicable.

So, I just found this thread and I am so glad for the OP and all of the contributors!

First to EWO...please, please don't give up hope!! I too graduated in 2008 and after being rejected from all the MD/PhD programs I applied to (not prepared at all--24Q MCAT, cGPA: 3.23, sGPA: 2.89), I became super discouraged. But, I kept going and spent the next couple of years becoming a better applicant (click on my MDApps on the side to read some of my bckgrnd...) and I am grateful to be able to say that I will be matriculating in to medical school this Fall!

Which brings me to my next comment...I have always loved doing basic science research. By the time I start school I will have done about 4 yrs of it (including 2 years in undergrad, with a third author publication). I did not apply MD/PhD this year, partly because of fear of rejection again and partly because I, too, felt I was now too old to pursue this type of 7-8 yr program. But now I'm about 90% sure I would like to apply to my school's MD/PhD program after my first year in med school!

So, to anyone that may know...is getting into the MD/PhD program at schools after one's first year common? Would I be able to do it at all? And if so, how would the funding work?

Any advice is appreciated! Thanks so much!
 
So, I just found this thread and I am so glad for the OP and all of the contributors!

First to EWO...please, please don't give up hope!! I too graduated in 2008 and after being rejected from all the MD/PhD programs I applied to (not prepared at all--24Q MCAT, cGPA: 3.23, sGPA: 2.89), I became super discouraged. But, I kept going and spent the next couple of years becoming a better applicant (click on my MDApps on the side to read some of my bckgrnd...) and I am grateful to be able to say that I will be matriculating in to medical school this Fall!

Which brings me to my next comment...I have always loved doing basic science research. By the time I start school I will have done about 4 yrs of it (including 2 years in undergrad, with a third author publication). I did not apply MD/PhD this year, partly because of fear of rejection again and partly because I, too, felt I was now too old to pursue this type of 7-8 yr program. But now I'm about 90% sure I would like to apply to my school's MD/PhD program after my first year in med school!

So, to anyone that may know...is getting into the MD/PhD program at schools after one's first year common? Would I be able to do it at all? And if so, how would the funding work?

Any advice is appreciated! Thanks so much!


You can do this if you get all honors as a m1. Easier said than done, but if the program is being reviewed and doesn't have many urms they may make an exception (much like how the posters above are somehow getting accepted with 3.0s and 24 mcat which blows my mind).
 
Go to the UIUC website and under the medical scholars tab find Tony Jiminez- he is a recruiter for the program and he will answer all of your questions and put to rest any concerns.
 
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