MS3: Anyone else miserable & depressed?

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My mission as an intern/resident:
1) for the med students: teach them, involve them, encourage them, challenge them, and let them go home early
2) for the staff, nurses, etc, who are intrusive/annoying/lazy: BERATE THEM

MUWAHAHAHA!

You will be the king of all interns, as far as your students are concerned. That said, your life will be miserable because those same inept, incompetent, horrible nurses/staff will stand in your way at every turn by slacking as much as possible changing lines, drawing labs, updating vitals/i+o's, etc, and will in all likelihood not be disciplined because it's easier to find residents than good nursing staff (plus their superiors are probably also anti-doctites anyway). And then you will become bitter and begin taking your frustration out on your students and everyone else below you. This is the nature of the medical profession. :mad:

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What can I say? Third year sucked and was one of the worst years of my life.
Heres a couple of things that kept me going.

1) You just have to take it one day at a time. Don't focus on "Crap I have to work the next 12 days in a row" or "I have how many more months of this." If you have to just focus on "OK I just have to get through rounds this morning and everything for the rest of the day should be ok."

2) Take time off for yourself. DO NOT LISTEN to some nazi like attendings and residents that insist that every waking moment must be spent studying. If your working 16 hour days go home and spend a few hours on yourself. Spend time with your SO, play Xbox, watch TV, whatever.

3) Never let anyone get to you on a personal level. If you do something wrong own up to it and take professional responsibility for it. Do not turn into some groveling man child in a white coat. Yes it's very easy to go into that sickening submissive mode that 3rd years are famous for. But you're an adult. Sooner or later that behavior is going to affect you and you are going to feel like crap.

4) Nurses are your friends. Took me a while to learn this but if your buddy buddy with the nurses you are almost untouchable on the floor. If the nurses adore you do you think the bully resident or attending is going to berate you for something small in front of them like they would another student?
 
lol

oh my god, yes the nurses most certainly are your friends.

i can't even begin to tell you how many useful little tidbits nurses have given me. believe me, make friends with them...yes, even the crotchety ones who need a smack upside their heads. because ya know what? they can make your life SOOOOOOO easy.

trust me..it might be too late during the rotation you're on now, but try it. next rotation make friends, be sweet, conversational,nice, etc etc to EVERY nurse you run into...even the ones who don't take care of your patients directly. they talk amongst themselves, just like we do, and if you're liked, they will bend over backward to help you out......

nurses rock
 
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3rd year sucks :thumbup:

Not since I was 6 have I had so many psyho-somatic and mental complaints to avoid going to school, worst part is now they don't work and I go anyways. Everyday is like a battle - try to duck and dive and avoid the land-mines. Peers are not much better.:thumbdown:

1.5 years and then freedom...right? NOTTTT newbiesss! It only gets worse...it only gets worse... it only gets worse :scared:
 
I forgot to add: my fav part are attendings and patients -- the rest is vile.
Patients are so sweet - I feel bad for them having to touch this rotten system. Poor babies.
 
Anybody who felt depressed/miserable during M3 find a niche in medicine that makes them happy--i.e. success stories for those of us who are not having the time of our lives on the wards? A career they can enjoy for the next 30 years? I never expected to enjoy every single waking moment on the wards, but it is a bit mentally taxing to question, day in and day out, when/if I'll find a field in medicine I can do long-term.
 
Anybody who felt depressed/miserable during M3 find a niche in medicine that makes them happy--i.e. success stories for those of us who are not having the time of our lives on the wards? A career they can enjoy for the next 30 years? I never expected to enjoy every single waking moment on the wards, but it is a bit mentally taxing to question, day in and day out, when/if I'll find a field in medicine I can do long-term.

Yes, I did.

Try to distinguish the precise reason for your misery. Are you irritated with the people on the rotation? Is it the nature of the diseases you see? Do you hate the patient population? Or is it something else? You have to figure out what hatred will get better with increasing status/responsibility, and what won't ever go away.

For myself, I broke down my misery like this:

1) Internal Medicine - liked the diseases, liked the intellectual exercise, hated the rounds in ways I can't even begin to describe, hated hours of conference every day (Verdict: you can't get away from endless rounding, so this was out)

2) Family Practice - Hated the outpatient clinics, hated the lack of acuity, hated doing health maintenance (Verdict: Screw FP, I'll never go back)

3) Psych - Loved the patients, hated the attendings/residents (Verdict: Almost went for it, but you have to like your coworkers, so I passed)

4) Ob/Gyn - hated the patients, docs, nurses, diseases, clinic (Verdict: To this day, I can't even talk to anyone in Ob/Gyn without wanting to punch them in the face)

5) Peds - Liked the pathology, liked the people, hated the parents (Verdict: you can't avoid patients in peds, so forget it)

6) Surgery - Loved the OR, neutral about the people, hated the abuse (Verdict: More power = less abuse, so this is what I did)

It's working out okay so far.
 
This thread was inspired by the "MS3: anyone else not learning anything?" thread. For the record, I feel that despite its numerous problems and learned helplelssness, I have actually learned a lot thus far in MS3, though I've only completed two rotations.

Then came psych, which was a great demonstration of the other political demon: uncontrollable grades. I really loved psych workwise and told the attending that I was seriously considering entering the profession. I volunteered to pick up extra patients, write extra learning issues, generally do any extra work that she needed, etc. I regularly asked her how I was doing and if there was anything I could improve on. (I wasn't being a gunner, btw b/c she only has 1 student at a time so i was not screwing anyone over). She always said I was doing great, doing top level work, etc. My evaluation came back a bit later: 85/High Pass. She also said that my "weakness was clinical interviewing" I had never heard this before from her, and I felt it was a pretty damning comment especially if I did try to match in psych. I tried to ask her to meet to discuss her eval of me, and she stood me up or cancelled 3 times. The only saving grace was that I completely threw her under the bus at the attending evaluation session. Basically I told the course director in nicer language that she was a backstabbing b*tch on wheels. They said they'd look into it, but who knows what will really happen. Just my luck to get one of the nation's only malignant psychiatrists.

Just a thought, maybe your interviewing skills were subpar only your 2nd rotation in and during a niche rotation, and throwing an attending under the bus probably made you look like the problem and not them (i.e. justified their evaluation of you to the course director).

I like to say that 3rd year is more an existential crisis than anything. Everyone is really smart, and they study A LOT. 80% correct on STEP1 is about a 262, 80% correct on an OBGYN shelf exam is only 68th percentile. As you have observed, it's not exactly like you can just study clinical skills and get better. You really have to struggle to learn, try things you're bad at, look stupid a lot. Whereas in 1st-2nd year clinical settings you get a lot of positive feedback, you come to realize that this is because those preceptors expect almost nothing of you. As you become a 3rd year then a resident, attendings expect a lot more of you, and tend to give you more harsh and real feedback. You have to develop a thick skin and toughen up, and if you walk around thinking that this interaction or that comment is going to ruin your career, you will go crazy. In fact a lot of attendings are much more interested in how you respond to adversity than they are in you being amazing at everything the first time.

I of course wanted to be great at everything and had high expectations of myself. But it was helpful to see that everyone struggles, literally at every level. I've seen interns struggle to present the way their attendings want them to, I've seen residents struggle assisting in surgeries they're unfamiliar with (fellows too), I've seen fellows struggle (like REALLY struggle) to suture laparoscopically in the rectum, only to have their attending say that it took him even longer the first time he tried to do the same thing, I've even seen experienced attendings struggle, for example the other day I saw an anesthesiologist try for a long time and fail to get an arterial line on a very sick patient. They all get frustrated, but one of the fellows said something that really stuck with me. She was doing colonoscopies and if she went a little too slow, the attending would come in and take over, and she said, "I wish he would let me struggle" (eventually he took over less often). But this made me realize that rather than fear or dread things that I will struggle with, I should realize that this is when I am learning the most, and that through the struggle I will both learn and toughen up. It is actually a privilege to be allowed to struggle in medicine, because that is when you will learn the most and fastest.
 
Just a thought, maybe your interviewing skills were subpar only your 2nd rotation in and during a niche rotation, and throwing an attending under the bus probably made you look like the problem and not them (i.e. justified their evaluation of you to the course director).

I like to say that 3rd year is more an existential crisis than anything. Everyone is really smart, and they study A LOT. 80% correct on STEP1 is about a 262, 80% correct on an OBGYN shelf exam is only 68th percentile. As you have observed, it's not exactly like you can just study clinical skills and get better. You really have to struggle to learn, try things you're bad at, look stupid a lot. Whereas in 1st-2nd year clinical settings you get a lot of positive feedback, you come to realize that this is because those preceptors expect almost nothing of you. As you become a 3rd year then a resident, attendings expect a lot more of you, and tend to give you more harsh and real feedback. You have to develop a thick skin and toughen up, and if you walk around thinking that this interaction or that comment is going to ruin your career, you will go crazy. In fact a lot of attendings are much more interested in how you respond to adversity than they are in you being amazing at everything the first time.

I of course wanted to be great at everything and had high expectations of myself. But it was helpful to see that everyone struggles, literally at every level. I've seen interns struggle to present the way their attendings want them to, I've seen residents struggle assisting in surgeries they're unfamiliar with (fellows too), I've seen fellows struggle (like REALLY struggle) to suture laparoscopically in the rectum, only to have their attending say that it took him even longer the first time he tried to do the same thing, I've even seen experienced attendings struggle, for example the other day I saw an anesthesiologist try for a long time and fail to get an arterial line on a very sick patient. They all get frustrated, but one of the fellows said something that really stuck with me. She was doing colonoscopies and if she went a little too slow, the attending would come in and take over, and she said, "I wish he would let me struggle" (eventually he took over less often). But this made me realize that rather than fear or dread things that I will struggle with, I should realize that this is when I am learning the most, and that through the struggle I will both learn and toughen up. It is actually a privilege to be allowed to struggle in medicine, because that is when you will learn the most and fastest.

This thread is from 2007 and getunconscious was last active over 5 years ago.
 
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This thread is from 2007 and getunconscious was last active over 5 years ago.
I sometimes wonder when reading this kind of threads - how it went for OP, would be interesting to hear lol
 
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The 3rd year of medical school was the low point of medical school for me. PGY-1 sucks more in a different way, but is way more intellectually satisfying. PGY-2 in PM&R is its own world of suck and I think was the low point of my medical career thus far in general. It's not too hard to find people (myself included) who enjoyed MS1 an MS2 more than MS3. You are in control of your own time and you really do feel like you are learning a ton.
 
The 3rd year of medical school was the low point of medical school for me. PGY-1 sucks more in a different way, but is way more intellectually satisfying. PGY-2 in PM&R is its own world of suck and I think was the low point of my medical career thus far in general. It's not too hard to find people (myself included) who enjoyed MS1 an MS2 more than MS3. You are in control of your own time and you really do feel like you are learning a ton.

I think there are people who find studying hours and hours satisfying and I suspect they don't really like a submissive position you are as a student while during MS3 - that's why they find it miserable.
Another group of people (like me lol) - we hate MS1 and MS2 just because it's not fun living in a library and in addition we are more ok-ish with bending over during MS3 as we know that we need time to learn and it's ok to be tossed around until we become attendings ourselves.
I have a classmate who is a club president, almost a gunner lol and I think he is in 1st category. After our patient encounter (osce) he was very disappointed. He didn't like how proctor schooled him about "wrong" way of doing SOAP, because he was taught to do it a bit differently. Mi-self on the other hand was happy, because I focused on a patient interaction and tried to enjoy it, as for me it was a long needed "fresh air" after so many studying and exams. Maybe I can adapt better to a environment where everything is not exactly the way you are taught or maybe it's something else, not sure. Proctor schooled me too, but I accepted it without any internal dilemma haha.
I'm just saying MS3 could be miserable if you are a gunner or aiming to the top and instead of enjoying different experience you start to punish yourself, study your ass off same as in MS1 and MS2 trying to perform 100% and then still not getting 100% on some rotations. For me MS3 is a chance to learn and sometimes get honors pass, but for other folks it may be a hell trying to keep same 25% top rank in their class they once had. I'm sure there are other reasons, but expectations and "gunnerism" can potentially negatively affect mood of a fellow MS3 imho
 
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