Most Toxic Residency

[Tender2TheTouch]

My friend and I were trying to decide what was the MOST malignant residency (place and field together) in the entire US (p.s. we were pretty bored today waiting for admissions). So, is there a residency legendary for being so nasty and toxic to its residents? My guess would have been Duke general surgery (although have no experience with the place).

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[dragonfly99]

Oh, man. "Most toxic" is so in the eye of the beholder...
I'm sure it's some crappy prelim surgical program somewhere that keeps a bunch of FMG's for 1 or 2 years, doesn't teach them anything and scuts them out to no end with no teaching and works them way over the work hours doing nothing but scut work. I'm sure there are some big name places that treat people pretty sh*tty because they can, too, but usually those places have some kind of pride to the point they won't let people leave without learning stuff.

 

[Apollyon]

I can vouch that it is NOT Duke general surgery. Certainly, it is really tough there, but the residents are total studs, and are up to the task.

 

[Buzz Me]

I can vouch that it is NOT Duke general surgery. Certainly, it is really tough there, but the residents are total studs, and are up to the task.

But a malignant program can turn out good residents.

 

[Apollyon]

But a malignant program can turn out good residents.

That is completely true, but good raw materials make good residents. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

What I mean is that, despite a crushing academic atmosphere, people there (mostly across the board) (and by "there", I resist stating the name again, lest a troll or other harp on it, irrespective of context) don't wither or complain, and, if they're beaten down, they don't show it, they don't whine (at least about the things that make a place "malignant"), and a significant number remain for fellowship (like the "Decade with Dave", since renamed). Although possible, it is highly unlikely to get ~1000 masochists together in one place.

 

[Law2Doc]

...Although possible, it is highly unlikely to get ~1000 masochists together in one place.

Actually I think there are several events like that annually at various S&M clubs in the Village.

As for malignancy, it's not just a matter of oppressive hours. Working 100 hours/week and loving every minute of it doesn't constitute malignant. I've experienced a situation where the hours were very high but I would consider it one of the more benign places.

Malignancy is a culture. It comes from the top down. It means you have a program director or higher who is an SOB and treats people like crap, and this trickles down to the chiefs who treat their charges like crap, and all the seniors treat their interns like crap. It also translates to very little useful learning, because rather than the "see one, do one, teach one" attitude, nobody is going to be willing to "teach one", so it's more of a "do one, screw it up, take abuse, get in line to abuse the next guy who fails" attitude. There is no teamwork in a truly malignant place. And ON TOP OF THAT, because people aren't pulling together in the same direction, the hours tend to be bad, because it's harder to get stuff done. So it's a culture of disrespect and abuse, and with those attitudes often comes longer hours and lack of teaching. Some of the top programs in the country have gotten in trouble with the hours, but unless the folks are complaining about abuse and respect issues, I don't think they rise to the level of malignancy.

 

[Old_Mil]

Malignancy is a culture. It comes from the top down. It means you have a program director or higher who is an SOB and treats people like crap, and this trickles down to the chiefs who treat their charges like crap, and all the seniors treat their interns like crap. It also translates to very little useful learning,

One of the biggest favors you can do when you're on the interview trail is keep your eyes and ears open for SOBs...and avoid them.

 

[fergustsi]

One of the biggest favors you can do when you're on the interview trail is keep your eyes and ears open for SOBs...and avoid them.

If you can't spot the SOB in the interview day, does that mean it is you?

 

[dragonfly99]

One of the biggest favors you can do when you're on the interview trail is keep your eyes and ears open for SOBs...and avoid them.

I agree with this. However, sometimes it is quite hard to tell on the interview trail. Just as applicants with crappy personalities and bad work ethics can often "fake it" well enough to fool interviewers, a lot of nonsupportive program leaders/administrator types know how to put on a good act at interviews.

 

[maceo]

any program in NYC 10 years ago.. MALIGNANT. thats where the laws came from NY STATE cuz the hospitals were so ****ed up. the medicine residents were screaming NO MAS, NO MAS.