MD MIT grad 3.57/Sc 3.40, MCATx3, [advice on applications]

[freemontie]

I don't like being surrounded by dinguses. Particularly dinguses who rely on their daddy's job to get them what they want.

Also doctors who look down on doctors who "just" want to treat patients.

I explain this because I find it fun, not because I think it will change any of you:
Some unbiased observers would consider you the arsehole. You're the one who expressed disgust at him being in your (future? hopeful?) med school class and that you "vomitted all over your computer". Some might also call me an arsehole for calling some of you out so bluntly. But OP has not proven any assholeness yet unless you consider too-high aspirations arsehole-ish. Nor is there any evidence he's using his daddy's job for anything nor is there any evidence he would look down on doctors, or anyone, with "lesser" aspirations (if you even want to use that word, which he didn't.)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I explain this because I find it fun, not because I think it will change any of you:
Some unbiased observers would consider you the dingus. You're the one who expressed disgust at him being in your (future? hopeful?) med school class and that you "vomitted all over your computer". Some might also call me an dingus for calling some of you out so bluntly. But OP has not proven any assholeness yet unless you consider too-high aspirations dingus-ish. Nor is there any evidence he's using his daddy's job for anything nor is there any evidence he would look down on doctors, or anyone, with "lesser" aspirations (if you even want to use that word, which he didn't.)

The dude specifically cited his father's job and his "connections" as reasons why he would get into a top med program.

 

[Lawpy]

@efle and @hopefulERdoc251, what are your qualifications? Are you guys still in college? I'm looking for advice from people who may have better inside as a med student or beyond. I'm quite aware of theoretical stuff.

I have my path in medicine already well planned out since a long time ago. Going to DO and low tier medical school is perfectly fine for someone who just wants to treat patients everyday. Yeah that's great but my aims are a bit different. My background is well thought out to be involved in the innovation side of medicine, and using medical practice to spur ideas, provide expertise and knowing what problems to tackle. I agree it's a business minded decision, but my goals are to be a leader/innovator. Who can innovate in a field they barely know? (many new medical startups are lead and advised by doctors)

Lots of changes are coming in the near future to medicine, and we'll need more technically trained doctors to run the show.

It's not like I'm not taking your guy's advice. I already added 12 more schools to my list in the mid tier range. If it needs to be, I can do med school anywhere and then go to a better residency program. After all many of our connects are either department chairs or well known in the society, directors of fellowship/residency training, etc.

So I'm not sure what's going on exactly here, but if you want to receive opinions/advice only from adcoms, medical students/residents/attendings, your best bet is to consult them individually via PMs. But @Goro already addressed your concerns so it's really up to you.

No one is stopping you from applying to top schools, but do keep in mind that your low sGPA and 3x MCAT with declining verbal will hurt you. If you feel it's a minor issue and believe connections can help you, by all means go for it.

I don't like being surrounded by dinguses. Particularly dinguses who rely on their daddy's job to get them what they want.

Also doctors who look down on doctors who "just" want to treat patients.

I understand your frustration, but realize that no one is forcing you to read the thread and comment on it, so it'd help if you calm down and ignore it.

 

[mw18]

I just went through this process, mind you with a much different background (state school) and much different stats (38 mcat, 14 verbal), and I got snubbed at PLENTY of the schools on your list, OP. You have a tremendous background, but almost everyone who gets interviewed at the top tier does. They also have top notch stats. I'm not saying you can't get in to one, but it would be surprising. Seems like Mayo would be your best shot (dad) among the higher tiers; but since they're one of the most selective schools in the country I would say if they're your best shot, you don't have a great one.

But if you've got that eff-you google money and you want to apply to every school in the country - go nuts. I think you'll probably find your acceptance somewhere in Ohio though.

I'm not gonna knock you for wanting to be on the business/engineering side of medicine, but, man, it's a lot of work learning to do something you don't really want to spend your life doing. That's one hell of a sacrifice from someone leaving the mountaintop (google). Best of luck to you with all those secondaries and with the app cycle.

 

[efle]

I actually do think this will be an interesting case study, if OP would be willing to make and update an MD apps for us throughout his cycle!

I am but a lowly senior in college, though I really suspect several years browsing SDN actually makes for a better set of knowledge than the status of being in med school does when it comes to questions like where am I competitive.

Honestly freemontie, we're all dinguses. I realize I often judge in addition to trying to be helpful. I still stand by everything I said earlier though, given a few of OP's comments it does make sense to really carefully consider the medical route - even if he ends up at a midlevel MD there is no guarantee of success in academia or becoming a leader/innovator etc, and if he would be miserable treating patients it may be better to seek leading and innovating in the engineering side of things.

 

[L33TFR33K]

I agree, it'll be interesting to see the results.

@Mwoods18 Thanks, Congrats on Hopkins. I agree its a big sacrifice and Ill be happy to do it. Theres lots of cools stuff going to be happening; robotic surgery, nanotech, 3D printing etc that will be pretty cool to do in medicine.

@ChrisMack390 Maybe if you're nicer to me ill share some with you

 

[ChrisMack390]

I'll get in by working on my application, not by asking my daddy or yours. Thanks though.

 

[Nietzschelover]

OP, why are your V scores so low, in your view? Doesn't seem to fit with the rest of your profile.

And perhaps you will become the leader of the next technological frontier in medicine, but even so, what are you getting out of coming across as you are with comments like "med school just another hoop to jump through"? Are you brilliant but with deficits in social awareness, or just a cocky SOB? And even if you are the latter, what are you getting out of protraying that here.

In defense of @freemontie, as a new poster, it is true that the parrotting from the pre-med student adcoms can become annoying. I commented on Goro referencing "most adcoms think D1 is a vitamin" (which was a variation on a similar gyngyn characterization) in part because of the likelihood within a day or two that one of the pre-meds would start using Goro's line. Seriously, some start using the exact same phrases from the real adcoms with the same cadence. "I can't recommend Northstate." Anyway, for the newer posters, are the pre-med experts appointed by SDN? Are they interns for SDN? Have all of them been guaranteed admission themselves or are all above some MCAT threshold like 37 or 520+?

 

[L33TFR33K]

@ChrisMack390 Of all the flavors you can choose and you pick salt.

 

[L33TFR33K]

OP, why are your V scores so low, in your view? Doesn't seem to fit with the rest of your profile.

And perhaps you will become the leader of the next technological frontier in medicine, but even so, what are you getting out of coming across as you are with comments like "med school just another hoop to jump through"? Are you brilliant but with deficits in social awareness, or just a cocky SOB? And even if you are the latter, what are you getting out of protraying that here.

In defense of @freemontie, as a new poster, it is true that the parrotting from the pre-med student adcoms can become annoying. I commented on Goro referencing "most adcoms think D1 is a vitamin" (which was a variation on a similar gyngyn characterization) in part because of the likelihood within a day or two that one of the pre-meds would start using Goro's line. Seriously, some start using the exact same phrases from the real adcoms with the same cadence. "I can't recommend Northstate." Anyway, for the newer posters, are the pre-med experts appointed by SDN? Are they interns for SDN? Have all of them been guaranteed admission themselves or are all above some MCAT threshold like 37 or 520+?

Hmm I'd have to say I changed my strategy for verbal quite drastically after the first time and choked on the verbal parts when they came around. I'd have to say I scored perfect 36ACT reading and writing way back when, so I assume its specific to the mcat verbal. I assume that being able to score well on the science portions means you can at least read decently well Not trying to give any excuses, however.

I'm not trying to be cocky, I was just explaining my view of med school in relation to my plans. I see an MD as part of the stepping stone to other things. Just like there's many other hoops to jump through after med school. Apologies

 

[ChrisMack390]

@ChrisMack390 Of all the flavors you can choose and you pick salt. Tsk tsk. Look man I'm pretty sure I can hold my own. I was born into medicine, not warmed up to it. Might as well use the resources I have and do something cool with it. Not trying to sound arrogant or anything, I'm just stating what I have to work with here.

I know someone just like you in real life. Double legacy - got easily accepted into her parents' alma mater despite her lackluster numbers. "Knew" she would be this fantastic researcher and run the show at some prestigious hospital.

She got slammed by the USMLE and now has no idea what to do with her life.

#karma

 

[L33TFR33K]

I know someone just like you in real life. Double legacy - got easily accepted into her parents' alma mater despite her lackluster numbers. "Knew" she would be this fantastic researcher and run the show at some prestigious hospital.

She got slammed by the USMLE and now has no idea what to do with her life.

#karma

Maybe I can hire you to take the USMLE for me then?

 

[rocklobstr]

I think you need to seriously consider your career path. Your comments show about zero interest in practicing medicine, and you're looking for people to just say what you want to hear. You also come across as sounding very entitled and uninterested in medicine (e.g., money is no problem, DO is not an option, you have a stronger business application than medical application, I don't want to just treat patients, the top heavy list despite close to zero chance of acceptance at a top 20, your "connections" in medicine, pre-occupation with prestige, etc.).

That being said, I think your application would be great for bio-medical engineering, business, medical administration, etc. You could be a great innovator and leader in any of these fields. Think about what you really want your outcome to be. Don't go to medical school to just know about the field, that makes no sense.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Both of your back and forth comments are as classy as your current medical school status... classless. You want to prove people wrong, act better.

It is a disgrace to the field of medicine that in all likelihood this clown actually will get into Mayo or similar.

 

[rocklobstr]

It is a disgrace to the field of medicine that in all likelihood this clown actually will get into Mayo or similar.

If (s)he gets an interview, (s)he will need to fake an attitude about being caring, compassionate, and having actual personal interest in medicine. Otherwise, no school will take them. Schools can get technical super academics for a dime a dozen.

 

[ChrisMack390]

@rocklobstr, you are thinking of people who don't have their mommy or daddy on the faculty of a med school.

 

[rocklobstr]

@rocklobstr, you are thinking of people who don't have their mommy or daddy on the faculty of a med school.

It really depends on the admissions committee. There is a big push in medicine to decrease social inequality, and letting in someone for the sole reason of their mom or dad working there would be unethical at best. I don't think many adcoms would think, "hey this person has okay stats, but his parents work here so we'll take him over the other 200 people who show true dedication to medicine and have better stats." But maybe I'm just an optimist.

 

[efle]

It really depends on the admissions committee. There is a big push in medicine to decrease social inequality, and letting in someone for the sole reason of their mom or dad working there would be unethical at best. I don't think many adcoms would think, "hey this person has okay stats, but his parents work here so we'll take him over the other 200 people who show true dedication to medicine and have better stats." But maybe I'm just an optimist.

You're an optimist. The value of swapping for a different matriculant vs the value of keeping important faculty content

 

[rocklobstr]

You're an optimist. The value of swapping for a different matriculant vs the value of keeping important faculty content

Well, the parents can only have so much pull at so many institutions, unless their nationally recognized experts or something. So they may get into the home institution of their parents. Apart from that, I don't think other schools wold put much weight on it. Thousands of applicants have double MD parents.

 

[efle]

Well, the parents can only have so much pull at so many institutions, unless their nationally recognized experts or something. So they may get into the home institution of their parents. Apart from that, I don't think other schools wold put much weight on it. Thousands of applicants have double MD parents.

True I'm speculating from what OP has said that they have a parent high up at Mayo, which does tend to be full of heavy hitters in research

 

[rocklobstr]

True I'm speculating from what OP has said that they have a parent high up at Mayo, which does tend to be full of heavy hitters in research

Well, lets hope Mayo is true to the "patient centered health care" piece of their mission statement.

 

[Goro]

OP is already starting out with deficits. That, combined with internet persona traits that are hard for people to mask in real life, make OP's career in Medicine somewhat problematic.

But I'm also getting a whiff of one of these:

 

[candbgirl]

What a great pic!!! You may just be right.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

I think OP is compensating for multiple deficits in real life including

1. His verbal score
2. His personal traits
3. maybeeeee something else a little below the belt as well-it's ok bud, the future plastic surgeons here will take care of that


Regardless, OP seems to be a troll seeing as he created his account today. If he has that much time on his hands, then god bless him and whatever endeavors he wishes to pursue in his career.

 

[HarryH00d]

:troll:

 

[Grace184]

IT seems you've edited your posts, but it appears that you were once a Google intern, now telling people like ChrisMack that you have all this money. You don't really work for Google. You're an intern. If you're as good as you think you are, they would have hired you on the spot.

 

[ZedsDed]

In the words of the Big L: 'that's, like, your opinion man'. You're posting like you have every possibility figured out. For all you know maybe he dreams of using his name-brand education and work experience to go into healthcare technology via venture capital or private equity. Or maybe he wants neurosurgery-or-bust. Or maybe whatever. Realize he didn't ask you to be point man for his life path decision.

Here's a more reasonable list:

To answer @efle's question: OP has a < avg sGPA and is a 3x MCAT taker who did NOT improve. OP's choice making abilities may be questions by MD Adcoms, and MCATs even more so.

EDIT: Many Adcom members consider EMTs to be glorified taxi drivers.


OP should include some DO schools, Oakland-B, Western MI, all OH schools, ALL FL schools, wake, VCU, EVMS, Loyola, Creighton, Rush, MCW, SLU and Tulane, because beggars can't be choosy.

And to freemontie, better tone down the hostility, because I can see you're starting to go off the rails again. That sound you hear off in the background is the banhammer being cocked.



Drexel University College of Medicine
Georgetown University School of Medicin
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Temple University School of Medicine
The Ohio State Univ. Coll. of Med.
The University of Miami School of Medicine
The University of Toledo College of Medicine
USF Health Morsani College of Medicine
University of Central Florida COM
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Florida

Well, nice knowing ya montie. Good call Goro!

 

[Banco]

OP, why are your V scores so low, in your view? Doesn't seem to fit with the rest of your profile.

And perhaps you will become the leader of the next technological frontier in medicine, but even so, what are you getting out of coming across as you are with comments like "med school just another hoop to jump through"? Are you brilliant but with deficits in social awareness, or just a cocky SOB? And even if you are the latter, what are you getting out of protraying that here.

In defense of @freemontie, as a new poster, it is true that the parrotting from the pre-med student adcoms can become annoying. I commented on Goro referencing "most adcoms think D1 is a vitamin" (which was a variation on a similar gyngyn characterization) in part because of the likelihood within a day or two that one of the pre-meds would start using Goro's line. Seriously, some start using the exact same phrases from the real adcoms with the same cadence. "I can't recommend Northstate." Anyway, for the newer posters, are the pre-med experts appointed by SDN? Are they interns for SDN? Have all of them been guaranteed admission themselves or are all above some MCAT threshold like 37 or 520+?

No, everything on here is an opinion. Some opinions are more informed than others. Whenever someone asks for advice in WAMC, it is just that, advice with some sort of reasoning behind it. They don't have to follow it.

 

[WedgeDawg]

No, everything on here is an opinion. Some opinions are more informed than others. Whenever someone asks for advice in WAMC, it is just that, advice with some sort of reasoning behind it. They don't have to follow it.

Additionally, just because you have or don't have a certain MCAT score or have or have not yet gotten into medical school doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not you can give good advice to people.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Additionally, just because you have or don't have a certain MCAT score or have or have not yet gotten into medical school doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not you can give good advice to people.

Of course. But when some assume (presume?) the role of one of the lead advice givers, and the tone is so self-assured, coming across as almost jaded or annoyed, then I think it's reasonable to ask what the person's credentials are. Seeing fellow applicants show exasperation towards applicants for screwing up in some way or aiming too high is a little much. And certainly getting to the point of mimicking the tone and words of the real adcoms can be a little misleading if the posters seeking help aren't aware that the "expert" is really just another applicant like them.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Of course. But when some assume (presume?) the role of one of the lead advice givers, and the tone is so self-assured, coming across as almost jaded or annoyed, then I think it's reasonable to ask what the person's credentials are. Seeing fellow applicants show exasperation towards applicants for screwing up in some way or aiming too high is a little much. And certainly getting to the point of mimicking the tone and words of the real adcoms can be a little misleading if the posters seeking help aren't aware that the "expert" is really just another applicant like them.

I agree that tone is important to control and not falsifying credentials (even inadvertently) ensures that no one is misleading anyone else, but I don't think any of this stuff is done on purpose, and in my experience, tone seems to become more of an issue after the first round of "advisor"/"advisee" interaction where the latter argues something with the former even after the former explains to them that they are holding a view or perspective that is not conducive to this process. That's the point where it starts to get heated, and I can see how it might aggravate someone if they're trying to help and their advisee is being unnecessarily contentious. I would definitely agree that a healthy skepticism is important in every aspect of life, but taking that skepticism and applying it in places where it might not be warranted (some might say appreciated) may cause some friction.

 

[Banco]

Plus we always have multiple opinions on this board. I agree that advice should be given in a way that doesn't sound overly negative/discouraging - no one wants to hear how bad their application is, so it is tough to say it without coming off as crass.

 

[Doug Underhill]

I'm enthusiastic about this applicant, actually. A 3.57 in engineering from MIT is probably harder to get than the SDN bog standard 3.95 in bio from State U. Working at Google is an awesome and unique "superstar" EC (unless they made Google Plus, in which case it's a negative). The only problem is their MCAT. A 9 in VR is OK: going from a 9 to two sub-8s raises some questions.

I honestly think you can get in at a mid-top tier program with those credentials. When you think about it, the MCAT is there to provide standardization and to serve as a dress rehearsal for massive tests like Step 1. This applicant doesn't need standardization with a good GPA from a world-famous brand like MIT. As for Step 1, the odds are still heavily in their favor that they'll pass, although they are a higher risk in that regard.

I would definitely apply to programs that "superscore" the MCAT- i.e. the ones that take the best score in each section across all tests scored. You are very strong under that metric.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Agree with you @WedgeDawg, and even agree with your hint in my direction in your last phrase. That said, it would seem important to know how "advisors" become "advisors." Sounds like it is entirely self-appointment, and I guess it doesn't matter what that self-appointment is based on. If this is wrong, please correct me. And there is even a difference between persons like yourself who has successfully navigated through the whole process and a @Banco (I believe already part-way through med school) and active applicants.

 

[Banco]

Agree with you, and even agree with your hint in my direction in your last phrase. That said, it would seem important to know how "advisors" become "advisors." Sounds like it is entirely self-appointment, and I guess it doesn't matter what that self-appointment is based on. If this is wrong, please correct me. And there is even a difference between persons like yourself who has successfully navigated through the whole process and a @Banco (I believe already part-way through med school) and active applicants.

I guess it is up to the discretion of the poster to be critical of the advice they are getting. Anyone can post on this forum.

And NO I am going to start med school soon. I made a mistake when I changed my status because I didn't know there was a "medical student (accepted)" version but it's too late to change now

 

[WedgeDawg]

Agree with you @WedgeDawg, and even agree with your hint in my direction in your last phrase. That said, it would seem important to know how "advisors" become "advisors." Sounds like it is entirely self-appointment, and I guess it doesn't matter what that self-appointment is based on. If this is wrong, please correct me. And there is even a difference between persons like yourself who has successfully navigated through the whole process and a @Banco (I believe already part-way through med school) and active applicants.

That "hint" actually wasn't directed at anyone in particular just a general observation. Agree that different levels of experience provide for different perspectives, but the main thing I want to get across is that the absence of being at a certain threshold (whether that's getting into medical school, passing step 1, getting your medical degree, etc) doesn't in itself preclude a poster from giving good advice, particularly as it pertains to applying to medical school (which is why I take issue with comments that discount application advice merely because the advice giver is still a premed).

 

[Nietzschelover]

That "hint" actually wasn't directed at anyone in particular just a general observation. Agree that different levels of experience provide for different perspectives, but the main thing I want to get across is that the absence of being at a certain threshold (whether that's getting into medical school, passing step 1, getting your medical degree, etc) doesn't in itself preclude a poster from giving good advice, particularly as it pertains to applying to medical school (which is why I take issue with comments that discount application advice merely because the advice giver is still a premed).

I agree with this as well, and I'll drop this (for now) after just saying the following. A pre-med student and/or applicant actually could be the best advice-giver. To me, being really good involves knowing your stuff, really reading the poster's WAMC material very closely with an ear for any nuances or exception-to-the-rule type material, offering thoughts and a list that aren't cookie-cutter (i.e. just listing the same 15-20 low tiers because it's convenient), referring elsewhere at the limits of one's knowledge and where indicated. In general, I have found that ALL of the advice givers hit most of those most of the time. That said, I do not think a pre-med and/or current applicant should be coming across with a tone as though they are a real adcom with 30 years of experience who acts like he or she is tired of hearing yet another WAMC that disappoints in some way.

 

[Nietzschelover]

I guess it is up to the discretion of the poster to be critical of the advice they are getting. Anyone can post on this forum.

And NO I am going to start med school soon. I made a mistake when I changed my status because I didn't know there was a "medical student (accepted)" version but it's too late to change now

You're excellent.

 

[Goro]

So freemontie got herself banned? Yup, I have to crow...saw that bus coming.

 

[efle]

Ill be shocked if the MIT name and an internship at Google overcomes 32/29/32 with sub-8 V's and a 3.4sGPA on an Asian applicant enough to impress high tier schools, and that's coming from a very big fan of considering undergrad difficulty. If OP isn't a troll their cycle will be fun to follow ! Hope to be proved wrong

 

[Doug Underhill]

Well, the attitude is concerning, at any rate. We're not going to know if the person was rejected for personality issues or MCAT issues, although we could use pre-secondary/pre-interview rejections as a proxy for the latter.

 

[efle]

Well, the attitude is concerning, at any rate. We're not going to know if the person was rejected for personality issues or MCAT issues, although we could use pre-secondary/pre-interview rejections as a proxy for the latter.

Yeah basically I'm interested to see if he gets Top 10 interviews, assuming he still applies to most of them like he originally planned

 

[ChrisMack390]

If his father is really Mayo faculty, he will get into Mayo. That is how the world works, is it not?

 

[efle]

If his father is really Mayo faculty, he will get into Mayo. That is how the world works, is it not?

I dunno, if he says something in the interview like "I really don't want to treat patients every day" it could cancel out a lot

 

[ChrisMack390]

True. I guess the question would be whether he gets minimal interviews or a series of interviews and rejections.

 

[Grace184]

Ill be shocked if the MIT name and an internship at Google overcomes 32/29/32 with sub-8 V's and a 3.4sGPA on an Asian applicant enough to impress high tier schools, and that's coming from a very big fan of considering undergrad difficulty. If OP isn't a troll their cycle will be fun to follow ! Hope to be proved wrong

Haha yea at this point I'm going with troll....Google does a ton of biomedical engineering it's just not called "Google." They probably didn't tell him about it because he's a sub par candidate for the job and most likely interviewed as such. You don't need an MD to do his life plan- that's idiotic. Before Google my brother designed and and trained the military on how to use their software. He's not in the military. Nothing OP said made sense.

 

[efle]

Haha yea at this point I'm going with troll....Google does a ton of biomedical engineering it's just not called "Google." They probably didn't tell him about it because he's a sub par candidate for the job and most likely interviewed as such. You don't need an MD to do his life plan- that's idiotic. Before Google my brother designed and and trained the military on how to use their software. He's not in the military. Nothing OP said made sense.

I dunno, I feel like a good troll would've played up the narcissism and daddy-will-get-me-in thing a little more. I suppose 6/10 for moderately believable

 

[ZedsDed]

I dunno, I feel like a good troll would've played up the narcissism and daddy-will-get-me-in thing a little more. I suppose 6/10 for moderately believable

I've met people with OP's attitude and worse IRL. The lines between troll, narcissist, and idiot all blend together in modern academia.

 

[efle]

I've met people with OP's attitude and worse IRL. The lines between troll, narcissist, and idiot all blend together in modern academia.

Makes me wonder which of the three I am...or are they not mutually exclusive

 

[Gandyy]

redacted.