All Branch Topic (ABT) Military OMFS

[NJ_Doc]

Hello Everyone!

I am currently a pre-dental undergraduate student. I have been pretty interested in the specialty recently (facial trauma, oncology, and cleft lip/palate) and thought I would come on here and ask around before I plan on shadowing a oral surgeon in my area. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with being an oral surgeon in any branch, or knows someone who is, and can share some of their experiences with me.

I've always wanted to serve and plan on applying for HPSP next cycle when I apply so I was wondering what are the daily duties of an oral surgeon in the military? Time in hospital or pulling molars? and I'm also curious about deployments(day to day duties and cases like trauma)? I know its very early to think of specializing but any knowledge would help. Thanks in advance!

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[NMC2010]

I can't speak of being an oral surgeon, but it's much easier to get into OMFS in the Army than on the outside world. You need 60+ CBSE, 3.5+ GPA, and this year they didn't have enough applicants to fill the spots. If you get in right out of school, your time commitment will be 8 years (4 for residency, 4 for concurrent payback). Every year that you don't do concurrently with HPSP will be another year added on - so if you apply for it after you have already been in for 2 years, you'll still have 2 years of original HPSP contract, plus the 4 year residency, 4 year ADSO (2 + 4 + 4 = 10 years). You can moonlight once you've completed the residency, idk about during.

 

[NJ_Doc]

I can't speak of being an oral surgeon, but it's much easier to get into OMFS in the Army than on the outside world. You need 60+ CBSE, 3.5+ GPA, and this year they didn't have enough applicants to fill the spots. If you get in right out of school, your time commitment will be 8 years (4 for residency, 4 for concurrent payback). Every year that you don't do concurrently with HPSP will be another year added on - so if you apply for it after you have already been in for 2 years, you'll still have 2 years of original HPSP contract, plus the 4 year residency, 4 year ADSO (2 + 4 + 4 = 10 years). You can moonlight once you've completed the residency, idk about during.

Thanks! That’s good to know. I’m still not sure whether I will apply to a speciality right after school or serve as a general dentist.

 

[Tooth Ferry]

Thanks! That’s good to know. I’m still not sure whether I will apply to a speciality right after school or serve as a general dentist.

In my own experience, a lot of people go into dental school thinking they want to do OMFS but then the grind of years needing to excel in school and dental simulations (not including stuff like research/shadowing/volunteering), followed by another 4 or even 6 years of further education/sleep deprivation, removes that desire from them, myself included. This doesn't even include 10+ years of living under the military's rules, regulations, and bureaucracy.

If find that you're deadset on OMFS, that is you won't be happy doing anything else dental, then the military will definitely make it easier for you to become an OMFS because the applicant/selected ratio is so much more favorable to the former.

Good luck

 

[questionasker1071]

I can't speak of being an oral surgeon, but it's much easier to get into OMFS in the Army than on the outside world. You need 60+ CBSE, 3.5+ GPA, and this year they didn't have enough applicants to fill the spots. If you get in right out of school, your time commitment will be 8 years (4 for residency, 4 for concurrent payback). Every year that you don't do concurrently with HPSP will be another year added on - so if you apply for it after you have already been in for 2 years, you'll still have 2 years of original HPSP contract, plus the 4 year residency, 4 year ADSO (2 + 4 + 4 = 10 years). You can moonlight once you've completed the residency, idk about during.

Where did you find these numbers?

 

[Tooth Ferry]

If you apply for it after two years of paying back the military, you still owe 2 years for dental school. (2) Then 4 years of OMFS residency (4), followed by paying back 4 years for the residency = a further 10 years in the military.

Also @NMC2010 if you don't have BOLC/DCC complete prior to graduation, you will need to 'snowbird' for a year at the location of your OMFS residency, making it a 9 year time commitment in total.

 

[ShortShortsDad]

I can see how this would be confusing for a dental student so I’m going to try to simplify.

While your civilian colleagues are often applying for a program which starts in ~6 months, for the military OMS you’re applying ~18 months in advance. This means that as a senior dental student if you are accepted before you graduate dental school you will do a year of general dentistry as a “snowbird” before starting OMS residency. This can be waived if the stars align: you’ve completed BOLC, there’s an open spot, you’re already at or slotted for that location, etc. It used to be very rare but now as not all spots are filled it’s more common (but not guaranteed, as hopping up a year pushes the problem of unfilled slots back a year group).

If your are a 3 or 4 year HPSP recipient it doesn’t really matter how much if your commitment you’ve paid back: you’ll owe 4 years from when you’ve finished residency. The caveat is if you’ve completed your ADSO (payback commitment) before starting residency as you can sign a retention bonus before starting (although you’ll still owe 4 years after finishing residency). It gets complicated if you’re ROTC + HPSP but hopefully if that’s you then you’ll know more about what you owe.

The stats listed above for OMS applicants are not fixed in stone and different than what I’ve heard. The most recent application cycles had “minimum requirements” but they were flexible and still encouraged applying. The Army is surprisingly holistic and if your numbers aren’t stellar they will still accept you if you’ve demonstrated a strong work ethic and other academic achievement. That being said, if you fail to meet standards as a resident you will be kicked out. But you absolutely do not need a 60+ CBSE or 3.5 GPA. You do need a strong letter from an oral surgeon though.

 

[vellnueve]

It’s common to apply as a third year and start right after graduation.

Also of note if you are sent out service then the 4 years are paid back separately from any other commitment you have.

 

[Coagulation]

If you apply for it after two years of paying back the military, you still owe 2 years for dental school. (2) Then 4 years of OMFS residency (4), followed by paying back 4 years for the residency = a further 10 years in the military.

Also @NMC2010 if you don't have BOLC/DCC complete prior to graduation, you will need to 'snowbird' for a year at the location of your OMFS residency, making it a 9 year time commitment in total.

In this scenario, is it possible to have the two remaining years of regular dental school payback to occur concurrently with the first two years of OMFS residency? Meaning that once you finish OMFS training, you'd owe only 4 years of payback?

Thus:
first 2 years of active duty = first 2 years of dental school are paid back
first 2 years of OMFS residency = 3rd & 4th year of dental school paid back (dental school obligation now paid off). BUT you have now accrued two new years that now need to be paid due to the residency.
then remaining 2 years of OMFS residency = accruing the last 2 residency years that now need to be paid back
then after residency = doing the 4 years of payback for the OMFS residency

Essentially: 2+4+4 = 10 total years

It sounded like from your statement it was: 2+4+2+4 = 12 years all together (2 for school, 4 for residency, 2 for remainder of school, 4 for res. payback)

Maybe it depends? Just curious

 

[Tooth Ferry]

You do not p

In this scenario, is it possible to have the two remaining years of regular dental school payback to occur concurrently with the first two years of OMFS residency? Meaning that once you finish OMFS training, you'd owe only 4 years of payback?

Thus:
first 2 years of active duty = first 2 years of dental school are paid back
first 2 years of OMFS residency = 3rd & 4th year of dental school paid back (dental school obligation now paid off). BUT you have now accrued two new years that now need to be paid due to the residency.
then remaining 2 years of OMFS residency = accruing the last 2 residency years that now need to be paid back
then after residency = doing the 4 years of payback for the OMFS residency

Essentially: 2+4+4 = 10 total years

It sounded like from your statement it was: 2+4+2+4 = 12 years all together (2 for school, 4 for residency, 2 for remainder of school, 4 for res. payback)

Maybe it depends? Just curious

You are not paying back your dental school obligation while the military is paying to train you. You CAN pay back a residency and a dental school obligation concurrently.

 

[ShortShortsDad]

@vellnueve That’s nice of the Navy to let you in right out of school, but unfortunately it’s not happening often with the Army. Even if you have completed BOLC before graduating (not many people did and this will be almost impossible soon with BOLC being extended so much longer) it’s still not happening often in the Army. I completed BOLC before starting dental school and was accepted into OMS while in school and still had to snowbird. Things are changing but it seems the Army makes it a bit harder this way. On a totally separate note another thing I really respect about the Navy is the Credentialing tour for new grad GPs - while I don’t have personal experience my colleagues have had great things to say and it seems like a near free 1yr GPR without the ADSO.

@Coagulation The math is really simple. However many years you work as a general dentist (for Army this is usually at least 1 as the snowbird) plus 4 years residency plus 4 years payback. Consider 9 years minimum of being in the Army, longer if you take longer to get accepted. Things change with ROTC / West Point plus HPSP, post residency fellowship, or the really rare civilian residency but if you’re going down that road it’s really a career of 20 that you’ll probably be doing. Also after 10 years of service you can transfer GI bill to a child and get free college for them so it’s usually worth investing the 10 years

 

[Badgers2]

@ZD26 I have some questions for you regarding OMFS in the Army. Some of these questions are rather broad. I realize things will change depending on the individual, but I'm looking for information on the "average Army oral surgeon." Anyone in the military OS community is welcome to chime in.

• I've followed a couple of your post breaking down payback for OMFS residency and I understand the whole snow-bird process. However, I did 4 years ROTC in undergrad so I'm looking for clarification on how that changes things. Would that year of snow-birding work to pay back a year of my ROTC commitment? I recognize that I'm probably going to end up doing 20 years by the end of it but I would like to know how it all breaks down, especially considering how long I would be pushing back my ability to get a retention bonus. Here's how my math looks with my current understanding of the situation:
  • 1 year snow-bird (1st year ROTC)
  • 1st-3rd years of residency (2nd-4th years ROTC) *ROTC commitment complete
  • 4th year of residency (1st year HPSP)
  • 3 years working as OMFS (2nd-4th years HPSP) *HPSP commitment complete
  • 4 years working as OMFS (4 years of residency) *Residency commitment complete
  • Total: 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 4 = 12 years
• How do you feel the Army OMFS residency compares to civilian residencies? Are the residents exposed to the scope of procedures that any resident at any other program would be exposed to?
• Is the scope of procedures done by oral surgeons in the Army fairly broad? Is it dependent on location? Dependent on individual? I just assume a location like Fort Jackson would be extracting 3rds from soldiers entering basic training all day. But I could be completely off.
• Do surgeons work in clinics similar to a private practice? Or, are all surgeries done within a hospital setting?
• What is the work/life balance like for an Army OS? Is it mostly 8hrs a day, weekends off, and some time on-call? Or, it is closer to random work hours with a significant amount of time on call?
• Being a 4 year program, what do the duties of the residents look like for each year?

Any information would be helpful!

 

[ShortShortsDad]

@ZD26 I have some questions for you regarding OMFS in the Army. Some of these questions are rather broad. I realize things will change depending on the individual, but I'm looking for information on the "average Army oral surgeon." Anyone in the military OS community is welcome to chime in.

• I've followed a couple of your post breaking down payback for OMFS residency and I understand the whole snow-bird process. However, I did 4 years ROTC in undergrad so I'm looking for clarification on how that changes things. Would that year of snow-birding work to pay back a year of my ROTC commitment? I recognize that I'm probably going to end up doing 20 years by the end of it but I would like to know how it all breaks down, especially considering how long I would be pushing back my ability to get a retention bonus. Here's how my math looks with my current understanding of the situation:
  • 1 year snow-bird (1st year ROTC)
  • 1st-3rd years of residency (2nd-4th years ROTC) *ROTC commitment complete
  • 4th year of residency (1st year HPSP)
  • 3 years working as OMFS (2nd-4th years HPSP) *HPSP commitment complete
  • 4 years working as OMFS (4 years of residency) *Residency commitment complete
  • Total: 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 4 = 12 years
• How do you feel the Army OMFS residency compares to civilian residencies? Are the residents exposed to the scope of procedures that any resident at any other program would be exposed to?
• Is the scope of procedures done by oral surgeons in the Army fairly broad? Is it dependent on location? Dependent on individual? I just assume a location like Fort Jackson would be extracting 3rds from soldiers entering basic training all day. But I could be completely off.
• Do surgeons work in clinics similar to a private practice? Or, are all surgeries done within a hospital setting?
• What is the work/life balance like for an Army OS? Is it mostly 8hrs a day, weekends off, and some time on-call? Or, it is closer to random work hours with a significant amount of time on call?
• Being a 4 year program, what do the duties of the residents look like for each year?

Any information would be helpful!

I think you have the timing about right but I'm not sure if you either count the years in residency or double count the years after. Either way I think it comes out to about 12, but that is a case worth asking a recruiter about

Army residency scope is different than civilian but by how much depends on what you're comparing to. Overall military residencies place more implants, do way more grafting (hip, BMP, BMAC, auto/allo block, money is no object), do more sedations/teeth cases, get more autonomy off service (lots of anesthesia, skin-to-skin gen surg cases), see younger/healthier patients for the most part, do way more orthognathics, do much more cosmetics (from Botox/fillers/laser to bleph/brow/facelift), and focus much more on academics (a full day per week vs civ maybe a couple hours of dedicated time depending on the program). On the flip side we do less trauma on average, less point-and-pull / less infections (Medicare/Medicaid walk in off the street stuff), almost no cancer/recon/microvascular, and don't spend any of our time teaching dental students.

Scope depends on location and mission. Almost no military oral surgeon will be full scope unless fellowship trained and that's not too common. Those at teaching locations do the most, if you're at a hospital it depends (likely mostly teeth/titanium with occasional orthognathics/trauma), but if you get stationed at a location without a hospital you'll be doing straight bread and butter private practice style but at a snail's pace.

All residencies are hospital based. Most leave residency to a hospital but a not insignificant number of locations are clinic-only.

Resident hours are comparable to civilian but call with on average will be a little to a lot less. Staff hours are variable. Teaching locations are nice ~7-4 while rotating staff call. It all depends if you're the only guy at a hospital you can be on call a lot but not actually get called in much. Working pace is slow, assistants are unionized so expect to do way fewer cases than a civilian OS would.

Schedule I posted on another forum, its a lot of text so linked below:

OMFS Residency Daily Schedule

Just curious if some of you could shed light on the average daily schedule of an OMFS resident. I understand you’re at the hospital for 12+..? hours a day. Do you usually work weekends? Are there exams and classes for 4-year programs, or is it all hands on learning? When you get home from the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Badgers2]

I think you have the timing about right but I'm not sure if you either count the years in residency or double count the years after. Either way I think it comes out to about 12, but that is a case worth asking a recruiter about

Army residency scope is different than civilian but by how much depends on what you're comparing to. Overall military residencies place more implants, do way more grafting (hip, BMP, BMAC, auto/allo block, money is no object), do more sedations/teeth cases, get more autonomy off service (lots of anesthesia, skin-to-skin gen surg cases), see younger/healthier patients for the most part, do way more orthognathics, do much more cosmetics (from Botox/fillers/laser to bleph/brow/facelift), and focus much more on academics (a full day per week vs civ maybe a couple hours of dedicated time depending on the program). On the flip side we do less trauma on average, less point-and-pull / less infections (Medicare/Medicaid walk in off the street stuff), almost no cancer/recon/microvascular, and don't spend any of our time teaching dental students.

Scope depends on location and mission. Almost no military oral surgeon will be full scope unless fellowship trained and that's not too common. Those at teaching locations do the most, if you're at a hospital it depends (likely mostly teeth/titanium with occasional orthognathics/trauma), but if you get stationed at a location without a hospital you'll be doing straight bread and butter private practice style but at a snail's pace.

All residencies are hospital based. Most leave residency to a hospital but a not insignificant number of locations are clinic-only.

Resident hours are comparable to civilian but call with on average will be a little to a lot less. Staff hours are variable. Teaching locations are nice ~7-4 while rotating staff call. It all depends if you're the only guy at a hospital you can be on call a lot but not actually get called in much. Working pace is slow, assistants are unionized so expect to do way fewer cases than a civilian OS would.

Schedule I posted on another forum, its a lot of text so linked below:

OMFS Residency Daily Schedule

Just curious if some of you could shed light on the average daily schedule of an OMFS resident. I understand you’re at the hospital for 12+..? hours a day. Do you usually work weekends? Are there exams and classes for 4-year programs, or is it all hands on learning? When you get home from the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Thank you for your response and for tagging that post! I would say 90% of the information I have on Army OMFS has been from reading your posts so I really appreciate it.

 

[Recip]

I agree with the above statement by ZD. I did externships at three civ programs. I can only speak to where I trained, but in my opinion, we come out much stronger than civilian counterparts.

Trauma depends on where you train. DOD has one Level 1 trauma center where AF and Army train. If you are lucky enough to go there, you will be involved in trauma all 4 years. Trauma is fairly steady there, so residents stay busy. They also have a burn unit there where you spend time doing a lot of burn recon - skin grafts, local and regional flaps, and several micro cases.

You will do less infections DOD wide, everyone you treat has access to care and go to the ER every time they get some nasal congestion. Most of the time you are treating subperiosteal or small vestibular infections. You only need to do a few big multi space infections to be comfortable. I got 75 patients w/ multi space infections on rotation, 4 true Ludwigs - 2 with extension into the mediastinum, 3 nec fasc, ton of lateral, retrophyarneal, subman spaces.

Walter Reed has a couple micro/ablative guys, not sure how much they do. Most of the ENT residents have to do on rotation to get there cancer numbers. I would agree that its weaker in that regard. We did a lot of benign cysts and tumors, resections for various pathology, and salivary cases as they come up.

As fair as what year looks like as a resident, they are structured differently based on location so you would have to visit the programs individually.

After residency, it really depends where they send you.

 

[Badgers2]

Just wanted to throw an update out there if anyone is ever in a similar situation with ROTC/HPSP/residency. I got confirmation from the recruiting integration officer of the Dental Corps that the snow-bird year does work to pay back the the ROTC commitment. In short, the math I went through in my post above is correct.

 

[D1Bound]

@vellnueve That’s nice of the Navy to let you in right out of school, but unfortunately it’s not happening often with the Army. Even if you have completed BOLC before graduating (not many people did and this will be almost impossible soon with BOLC being extended so much longer) it’s still not happening often in the Army. I completed BOLC before starting dental school and was accepted into OMS while in school and still had to snowbird. Things are changing but it seems the Army makes it a bit harder this way. On a totally separate note another thing I really respect about the Navy is the Credentialing tour for new grad GPs - while I don’t have personal experience my colleagues have had great things to say and it seems like a near free 1yr GPR without the ADSO.

@Coagulation The math is really simple. However many years you work as a general dentist (for Army this is usually at least 1 as the snowbird) plus 4 years residency plus 4 years payback. Consider 9 years minimum of being in the Army, longer if you take longer to get accepted. Things change with ROTC / West Point plus HPSP, post residency fellowship, or the really rare civilian residency but if you’re going down that road it’s really a career of 20 that you’ll probably be doing. Also after 10 years of service you can transfer GI bill to a child and get free college for them so it’s usually worth investing the 10 years

Would you mind if I sent you a message?

 

[ShortShortsDad]

Sure thing, sent you a DM

 

[havefunsometimes2]

Sure thing, sent you a DM

Hello, would it be possible if I can get in contact with you as well? I tried to DM but I was unable to.

Thank you so much

 

[AKtoTXstudent]

I can see how this would be confusing for a dental student so I’m going to try to simplify.

While your civilian colleagues are often applying for a program which starts in ~6 months, for the military OMS you’re applying ~18 months in advance. This means that as a senior dental student if you are accepted before you graduate dental school you will do a year of general dentistry as a “snowbird” before starting OMS residency. This can be waived if the stars align: you’ve completed BOLC, there’s an open spot, you’re already at or slotted for that location, etc. It used to be very rare but now as not all spots are filled it’s more common (but not guaranteed, as hopping up a year pushes the problem of unfilled slots back a year group).

If your are a 3 or 4 year HPSP recipient it doesn’t really matter how much if your commitment you’ve paid back: you’ll owe 4 years from when you’ve finished residency. The caveat is if you’ve completed your ADSO (payback commitment) before starting residency as you can sign a retention bonus before starting (although you’ll still owe 4 years after finishing residency). It gets complicated if you’re ROTC + HPSP but hopefully if that’s you then you’ll know more about what you owe.

The stats listed above for OMS applicants are not fixed in stone and different than what I’ve heard. The most recent application cycles had “minimum requirements” but they were flexible and still encouraged applying. The Army is surprisingly holistic and if your numbers aren’t stellar they will still accept you if you’ve demonstrated a strong work ethic and other academic achievement. That being said, if you fail to meet standards as a resident you will be kicked out. But you absolutely do not need a 60+ CBSE or 3.5 GPA. You do need a strong letter from an oral surgeon though.

@ZD26 Do you know what the "minimum requirements" were? I am a DS3 and set on pursuing OMS. I talked to a recruiter last year but he did not know much about joining as a dentist or pursuing a speciality with the military. I had some questions for you and would like to know if I could DM you?

 

[Tooth Ferry]

@ZD26 Do you know what the "minimum requirements" were? I am a DS3 and set on pursuing OMS. I talked to a recruiter last year but he did not know much about joining as a dentist or pursuing a speciality with the military. I had some questions for you and would like to know if I could DM you?

So you want to join the military and then apply for OMFS? You need around a 50 minimum plus strong letters to get in.

 

[ShortShortsDad]

Its typically not a great idea to direct accession with the goal of becoming a specialist. In all probability you'll have to work as a general dentist for a minimum of 1 year and most likely at least 2 before starting the program. Then do 4 years of residency and pay back 4 years. So you'll probably be in for 10 years, which will allow you to transfer a GI bill to a child (solid benefit but maybe the only significant one) but doing another decade is not usually a good financial decision so retirement pay isn't really worth it and you won't have the benefits of having the Army pay for your loans (there are some loan forgiveness programs but I'm not an expert and nothing beats free with HPSP).

Specializing is good for a lot of HPSP folks but not a great move for someone in your shoes, you're giving up a lot of time and freedom for no guarantee of getting what you want out of it.

But to answer your question, min CBSE 50 but maybe 60 to be competitive. Class rank and GPA matter but not as much as in the civilian world. You will need at least one solid externship but it only really matters if you do it at a military hospital so you can have a military OMS write your letter, a program director writing the letter will hold even more weight.

 

[D1Bound]

Its typically not a great idea to direct accession with the goal of becoming a specialist. In all probability you'll have to work as a general dentist for a minimum of 1 year and most likely at least 2 before starting the program. Then do 4 years of residency and pay back 4 years. So you'll probably be in for 10 years, which will allow you to transfer a GI bill to a child (solid benefit but maybe the only significant one) but doing another decade is not usually a good financial decision so retirement pay isn't really worth it and you won't have the benefits of having the Army pay for your loans (there are some loan forgiveness programs but I'm not an expert and nothing beats free with HPSP).

Specializing is good for a lot of HPSP folks but not a great move for someone in your shoes, you're giving up a lot of time and freedom for no guarantee of getting what you want out of it.

But to answer your question, min CBSE 50 but maybe 60 to be competitive. Class rank and GPA matter but not as much as in the civilian world. You will need at least one solid externship but it only really matters if you do it at a military hospital so you can have a military OMS write your letter, a program director writing the letter will hold even more weight.

That's crazy how a 60 CBSE is competitive when the civilian residencies need 70-75. Wow

 

[ClandestineDime]

Its typically not a great idea to direct accession with the goal of becoming a specialist. In all probability you'll have to work as a general dentist for a minimum of 1 year and most likely at least 2 before starting the program. Then do 4 years of residency and pay back 4 years. So you'll probably be in for 10 years, which will allow you to transfer a GI bill to a child (solid benefit but maybe the only significant one) but doing another decade is not usually a good financial decision so retirement pay isn't really worth it and you won't have the benefits of having the Army pay for your loans (there are some loan forgiveness programs but I'm not an expert and nothing beats free with HPSP).

Specializing is good for a lot of HPSP folks but not a great move for someone in your shoes, you're giving up a lot of time and freedom for no guarantee of getting what you want out of it.

But to answer your question, min CBSE 50 but maybe 60 to be competitive. Class rank and GPA matter but not as much as in the civilian world. You will need at least one solid externship but it only really matters if you do it at a military hospital so you can have a military OMS write your letter, a program director writing the letter will hold even more weight.

Is it common to ask a program director or other OMS attending for a letter of rec after doing an externship? I plan on externing but only for 5 -7 days each. I worry that wouldn't be enough time to feel comfortable asking for an LOR. What do you think? Any tips?

 

[ShortShortsDad]

Is it common to ask a program director or other OMS attending for a letter of rec after doing an externship? I plan on externing but only for 5 -7 days each. I worry that wouldn't be enough time to feel comfortable asking for an LOR. What do you think? Any tips?

Yes it’s common to ask, especially in the military as it carries more weight. If you don’t interact with the PD much you should at least have one informal interview or meeting. If the residents like you they’ll probably be the ones to write the letter so keep that in mind. Otherwise there are many threads on how to approach an externship which are worth looking at

 

[ClandestineDime]

Yes it’s common to ask, especially in the military as it carries more weight. If you don’t interact with the PD much you should at least have one informal interview or meeting. If the residents like you they’ll probably be the ones to write the letter so keep that in mind. Otherwise there are many threads on how to approach an externship which are worth looking at

Thank you!

 

[Veni vidi vicii]

I can't speak of being an oral surgeon, but it's much easier to get into OMFS in the Army than on the outside world. You need 60+ CBSE, 3.5+ GPA, and this year they didn't have enough applicants to fill the spots. If you get in right out of school, your time commitment will be 8 years (4 for residency, 4 for concurrent payback). Every year that you don't do concurrently with HPSP will be another year added on - so if you apply for it after you have already been in for 2 years, you'll still have 2 years of original HPSP contract, plus the 4 year residency, 4 year ADSO (2 + 4 + 4 = 10 years). You can moonlight once you've completed the residency, idk about during.

Are people only who got the HPSP allowed to apply to the army omfs? Or can I just attend a school and apply to the army as well to keep my options opened. Another question is why do you have to payback those 4 residency years. Regular omfs programs just pay you so it doesn’t make sense to me that you have to pay those 4 years back.

Also, does the Air Force and navy offer omfs programs as well?
Sorry if the questions are stupid just eager to find information

 

[ShortShortsDad]

Are people only who got the HPSP allowed to apply to the army omfs? Or can I just attend a school and apply to the army as well to keep my options opened. Another question is why do you have to payback those 4 residency years. Regular omfs programs just pay you so it doesn’t make sense to me that you have to pay those 4 years back.

Also, does the Air Force and navy offer omfs programs as well?
Sorry if the questions are stupid just eager to find information

You can apply as a senior dental student already under the HPSP scholarship or while on active duty (having done HPSP and practiced as a dentist for a bit or as a direct accession yo the military). As a civilian you cannot apply direct to OMS.

Army, Navy, and Air Force have programs, some are merged between multiple services and infrequently Public Health dentists can apply for OMS.

Of course you have to pay back your residency time, what would be the incentive to the military for training a surgeon who could leave the military as soon as they graduated residency? This has been covered extensively in these forums so you can search and find detailed info on how payback works.

 

[D1Bound]

Does anyone know if military oral and maxillofacial surgeons ever deploy with special forces units?

 

[ClandestineDime]

Does anyone know if military oral and maxillofacial surgeons ever deploy with special forces units?

I have not ever heard of that. Closest thing to that, that I have heard is that there is a Destroyer with an OMFS on it. Its job is to pick up injured Marines off the coast of China and bring them back to an aircraft carrier.

 

[D1Bound]

I have not ever heard of that. Closest thing to that, that I have heard is that there is a Destroyer with an OMFS on it. Its job is to pick up injured Marines off the coast of China and bring them back to an aircraft carrier.

Are you talking about a potential war with China in the future or has that actually happened already?

 

[ClandestineDime]

Are you talking about a potential war with China in the future or has that actually happened already?

Not sure what conflicts are currently going on, but the Destroyer does exist in association with the carrier that is outside the South China Sea.
And I only know what I have been told. I do not know this information first hand. Just heard it from some attendings.

 

[Tooth Ferry]

Does anyone know if military oral and maxillofacial surgeons ever deploy with special forces units?

Never. OMS exists in the military for readiness (extracting wisdom teeth) and trauma downrange. If you deploy, it will be to a field hospital for maxillofacial trauma.

If you want to do special forces, you can do the bravo program (2-year AEGD). Each of the SF groups has a dentist and Delta Force (CAG) has one, too.

 

[D1Bound]

Never. OMS exists in the military for readiness (extracting wisdom teeth) and trauma downrange. If you deploy, it will be to a field hospital for maxillofacial trauma.

If you want to do special forces, you can do the bravo program (2-year AEGD). Each of the SF groups has a dentist and Delta Force (CAG) has one, too.

What do the 2 year comp dentists do with special forces?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What do the 2 year comp dentists do with special forces?

Amalgam restorations and telling them to quit dipping.

Big Hoss

 

[ESPN907]

Amalgam restorations and telling them to quit dipping.

Big Hoss

My dream job!😱

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Amalgam restorations and telling them to quit dipping.

Big Hoss

Pretty baffling for me when I treated special forces (and I treated a lot where I was stationed). They have the largest ego and think they are the ultimate bada**, but whine like babies in the chair. One joked saying that if they added dental treatment to SERE training it would be way worse.

 

[D1Bound]

Amalgam restorations and telling them to quit dipping.

Big Hoss

Can you do that while wearing night vision

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Can you do that while wearing night vision

“This one’s deep. I’ll need the Dycal.”

Big Hoss

 

[schmoob]

Does anyone know if military oral and maxillofacial surgeons ever deploy with special forces units?

Never. You are not a combatant and are a huge liability. OMS and any dentist/physician are useless outside the wire and will only get in the way. That’s 18D’s are for.

Pretty baffling for me when I treated special forces (and I treated a lot where I was stationed). They have the largest ego and think they are the ultimate bada**, but whine like babies in the chair. One joked saying that if they added dental treatment to SERE training it would be way worse.

Haha! That’s because Hoss is right, they all dip.

My SERE class actually didn’t have any Operators. A bunch of pilots, divers, flight crew, and a few young Force Recon guys. I think a dental chair would’ve been a nice break!