Military medicine improving???

[elderjack21]

Based on my own and my family’s personal experiences within the military medicine bureaucracy (read: completely subjective), military medicine has improved over the last few years.

My kids never wait more than half a day for an appointment at the peds clinic now.

I don’t have to go to sick call for a same day appointment; I just call and schedule it for the same day.

My wife has never had a problem getting in at our military clinic or getting referred off post when needed.

Most notably, the civilian staff is much more responsive when we need help.

Tricare has even been helpful when I had to call to see why the off-post clinic kept send us bills for something they had already been paid for.

When I first joined, things sucked pretty much all-around.

I saw doctors while in Iraq and Afghanistan as well, no problems there (granted I wasn’t seriously injured, which would pretty much make me hate any healthcare system).

Anyone else notice a trend of improvement?

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[R-Me-Doc]

What branch and what base are you at?
And what timeframe are your talking about? I think things hit rock bottom in about 2005; I got out in 2006 -- maybe things are looking up now?

X-RMD

 

[alpha62]

nothing like the imminent threat of a transfer to EPW camp or TOE unit to keep the work force in line.

It kept Col. Klink in a state of compliance.

I imagine the threat of being sent to the front out of your soft CONUS assignment is a time tested method of keeping the slaves in line.

 

[elderjack21]

My first experience with military medicine was in 97' and include up to the present. Currently stationed in North Carolina at Fort Bragg (Army).

Granted, most of the care is provided by civilians now, but they are still making do with same military leadership in charge of them.

Perhaps the bitter old military docs getting out has made things better for the rest of us? j/k

 

[alpha62]

I was an MTF contract civ PA for the army until 2001. I worked my ass off, partly because I was prior service and a reservist at the time and I knew what it felt like to be on the other end.

the other civ. contractors weren't worth much. The Civ. nurses were a huge pain in the ass. Most of the civ. contract Docs, Midlevels had no prior military exp. They sucked. They refused to see pts sometimes, less than skills capable.

I just said screw it and went back on active duty to get away from the whole scene, as far as I could get at the time.

 

[BomberDoc]

milmed improving???? Seriously, are you smoking CRACK?!?!?!?

... or are you just stupid?

It has never been worse than it is today... and tomorrow is even further down the path toward hell. Each new day is the worst it has ever been. To think otherwise is to be a *****, or leadership... which is one and the same.

Really??? You think it is better??? I want to slap the s#it out of you for even thinking this. Your parents should be ashamed for producing someone so dumb.

 

[elderjack21]

milmed improving???? Seriously, are you smoking CRACK?!?!?!?

... or are you just stupid?

It has never been worse than it is today... and tomorrow is even further down the path toward hell. Each new day is the worst it has ever been. To think otherwise is to be a *****, or leadership... which is one and the same.

Really??? You think it is better??? I want to slap the s#it out of you for even thinking this. Your parents should be ashamed for producing someone so dumb.

Classic response from someone who is upset with their own life choices. You are a military doc; you are part of your own problem.

I am sure your patients must be very impressed with your maturity and ability, as a leader (officer) to improve your workplace. Your comment actually reminded me of the mindset of some of the officers that have worked over me. Arrogant, unable to be flexible enough or creative enough to fix problems, only interested in complaining about how bad things are, and generally a total a$$ that makes life worse for the rest of us.

I must be part of the leadership…the man keeping you down…hahaha, brilliant response!

 

[USAFdoc]

Based on my own and my family's personal experiences within the military medicine bureaucracy (read: completely subjective), military medicine has improved over the last few years.

My kids never wait more than half a day for an appointment at the peds clinic now.

I don't have to go to sick call for a same day appointment; I just call and schedule it for the same day.

My wife has never had a problem getting in at our military clinic or getting referred off post when needed.

Most notably, the civilian staff is much more responsive when we need help.

Tricare has even been helpful when I had to call to see why the off-post clinic kept send us bills for something they had already been paid for.

When I first joined, things sucked pretty much all-around.

I saw doctors while in Iraq and Afghanistan as well, no problems there (granted I wasn't seriously injured, which would pretty much make me hate any healthcare system).

Anyone else notice a trend of improvement?

I spoke with my nurse about 2 months ago. (from when I worked at the USAF MTF). She still works at the MTF but quit working in the Family Medicine clinic. She told me things there (FP clinic) are worse than ever.

 

[NavyFP]

I think that you will find successes and failures throughout the system and it will mostly be depenant on the individuals where the rubber meets the road. If you have a clinic director who is politically savvy enough to get the higher management to leave them alone, much can be accomplished and the clinic and its patients will thrive. If the person running the referral management center is customer focused, good things can happen there too. There is just too much variablity. I think discounting Elderjack's experiences are just as foolish as accepting there are places where it is bad. Yesterday, I had a patient who said the clinic I was working in was the best they had ever been. That was her point of view. Mine would be slightly different in that I feel the level of service/care has actually decreased in the past 3 years. I am still happy to have my family seen there, but it is not as good.

Respectfully disagree, but good experiences are not worthy of attack.

 

[sethco]

Classic response from someone who is upset with their own life choices. You are a military doc; you are part of your own problem.

I am sure your patients must be very impressed with your maturity and ability, as a leader (officer) to improve your workplace. Your comment actually reminded me of the mindset of some of the officers that have worked over me. Arrogant, unable to be flexible enough or creative enough to fix problems, only interested in complaining about how bad things are, and generally a total a$$ that makes life worse for the rest of us.

I must be part of the leadership…the man keeping you down…hahaha, brilliant response!

I have to agree with BomberDoc, although his response may have been a little abrasive.

Things are definitely not better and only seem to be getting worse everyday, at least at my MTF. Access is poor, retention rates suck, continuity of care is non-existent. In addition, since we are a bare bones MTF, we have to refer most patients off base for specialty care. Any provider around here that takes Tricare usually concerns me, especially with reimbursements the way they are. Most decent civilian providers have stopped taking Tricare and the ones that still take it generally are either just opened a new practice, are desperate for patients, or have other problems related to competence. We have tried to have specialist removed from the Tricare referral list and it is like pulling teeth.

On another subject, I was thinking how so many problems in the MTFs could be solved by simply adding a $10 copay to all clinic appointments. I know the retirees and dependents would probably have a heart attack at just the thought of copays/deductibles, but think about it. Access would certainly improve because patients would be more selective about the problems they come to the clinic for (Just an assumption). If there was anyway to possibly do this, this would be the simplest measure where I would start.

 

[elderjack21]

Well, I am glad to at least have started a discussion on the topic. My comments are based off of my location and branch.

I am not sure what MTF is, but seems to be something Air Force related.

Fort Bragg seems to have been investing money into improvements here for medical care. Many of the docs are deployed and have been backfilled with civilians, who for the most part understand the sacrifice the Soldiers and their families are making here. (We lose a few Soldiers each week in Afghanistan and Iraq)

The improvements here may be more political than anything since this installation has faced a huge amount of deployments for the GWOT and congress likes to keep the leaders here happy. Having the SF and Airborne communities also helps to secure funding and make changes to improve problems with the system. The SF community in particular tries to take care of its own. Their clinic is the one my family uses and I have been impressed.

Judging by the responses here, my experience seems to be singular to my installation and perhaps even my medical care facility.

 

[i want out]

Well, I am glad to at least have started a discussion on the topic. My comments are based off of my location and branch.

I am not sure what MTF is, but seems to be something Air Force related.

Fort Bragg seems to have been investing money into improvements here for medical care. Many of the docs are deployed and have been backfilled with civilians, who for the most part understand the sacrifice the Soldiers and their families are making here. (We lose a few Soldiers each week in Afghanistan and Iraq)

The improvements here may be more political than anything since this installation has faced a huge amount of deployments for the GWOT and congress likes to keep the leaders here happy. Having the SF and Airborne communities also helps to secure funding and make changes to improve problems with the system. The SF community in particular tries to take care of its own. Their clinic is the one my family uses and I have been impressed.

Judging by the responses here, my experience seems to be singular to my installation and perhaps even my medical care facility.

you have your answer.

Special operations communities tend not only to be more healthy, they tend not to complain even when they are sick.

Most of the time, special operations communities also recognize the necessity of manipulating the system. So rather than bitch and moan about the clinic they just get their senior enlisted to call the clinic senior enlisted and make **** happen

MTF is medical treatment facility and is not a service specific abreviation

another point of view that you may not have considered:
while the patient population is quite well equipped to judge customer service they are neither trained or exposed to the system enough to judge the level of care that is delivered.

a wise old FP once told me to always thank your patients for their compliments of your medical skills and knowledge. But beware, as they don't know what seperates good medical care from frank malpractice.

good luck with your training, and when your on the other side, and see an undertrained GMO commit malpractice on someone, come back and tell us whether you think good customer service can give them back the function of a limb that was not appropriately cared for, or give back their life when their cancer was missed and allowed to metastesize.

i want out (of IRR)

 

[elderjack21]

another point of view that you may not have considered:
while the patient population is quite well equipped to judge customer service they are neither trained or exposed to the system enough to judge the level of care that is delivered.

a wise old FP once told me to always thank your patients for their compliments of your medical skills and knowledge. But beware, as they don't know what seperates good medical care from frank malpractice.

good luck with your training, and when your on the other side, and see an undertrained GMO commit malpractice on someone, come back and tell us whether you think good customer service can give them back the function of a limb that was not appropriately cared for, or give back their life when their cancer was missed and allowed to metastesize.
i want out (of IRR)

Good points.

I am undecided about coming back into the military or not (after my current committment is over), so I may not ever be able to come back and tell you what I think about it from the "other side".

 

[Homunculus]

milmed improving???? Seriously, are you smoking CRACK?!?!?!?

... or are you just stupid?

It has never been worse than it is today... and tomorrow is even further down the path toward hell. Each new day is the worst it has ever been. To think otherwise is to be a *****, or leadership... which is one and the same.

Really??? You think it is better??? I want to slap the s#it out of you for even thinking this. Your parents should be ashamed for producing someone so dumb.

thanks for the contribution. please try to refrain from, well, just calling people names and insulting them for having an opinoion different than yours.

--your friendly neighborhood el moderato maximo caveman

 

[BomberDoc]

Yeah, I'm opinionated and mean. There is probably a lot of jealousy here since your facility seems to be running better than most. Certainly it is better than mine if you have money and staff. I'm sorry if anybody's feelings got hurt. I'd like to think that most docs have thick enough skin to take some abuse.

 

[grumbo]

I was just working at Ft. Bragg last month and I believe part of the improvements that the OP is see are directly due to a couple of good docs there. At one of the MTFs, one of the SF docs was able to work out a deal with the clinic director to allow him a few days a week to see clinic. Most operational docs lose their clinical skills, and this doc saw an opportunity to continue to see families to keep up his skills, and simultaneously improve access to care. The commander went for it, and since then, several other operational docs have followed suit. The result is better care for SF families. A similar thing has happend at Womac in the Fam Med Residency. They are essentially divided into 5 teams with 4 of those teams booking appts normally. The 5th team does not book appts long term and only opens appointments a few days ahead of time. This means, if you need to get in you can get it very fast. The only down side is that the pt's need to remember to book the appts when it's time. However, most pt's seem to love the system and the providers also have increased satisfaction. So, while it may be bad elsewhere, a few persistant and inventive docs have changed the system for the better.

 

[elderjack21]

Yeah, I'm opinionated and mean. There is probably a lot of jealousy here since your facility seems to be running better than most. Certainly it is better than mine if you have money and staff. I'm sorry if anybody's feelings got hurt. I'd like to think that most docs have thick enough skin to take some abuse.

No hurt feelings here. Although the thing about my parents being ashamed was a bit much.

I am no doc, yet; but I have been abused enough in the military to not stress it. No worries.

 

[gastrodoc]

I'd point out that most of the 82nd is deployed now, and many of the families have gone back home. I'd also point out that Womack doesn't routinely see over 65. While access may be better now, watch out when the boys and their families come back.

 

[elderjack21]

I don't think that most of the families have left. Post housing is completely full, as are all the new housing developments that are being built. My congregation is 100% active duty and we have something like 40 men deployed from it, 95% of their families stayed here for school, work, etc.

So that really hasn't effected OB/GYN, Peds, FP, etc.

I do agree that there will be extra strain on some of the other facilities though once everyone comes back...whenever that ends up happening. Fort Bragg just got another 25 million or so to hire more civilian doctors, health professionals, etc to help with that as well. We will see if they are smart enough to spend it wisely.

 

[alpha62]

He's not a leader or a real officer, and you won't be either. You're only an officer and a leader when it comes time to fry your ass for something.

You'll have no authority, you're part of the benefit and re-enlistment package to retain high school drop outs, single mothers, and other hard core unemployables and uninsurables.

Whenever I heard the term " flexable " it was really code for " look the other way" Somehow, mastering the ablity to bend over has become the template "leadership" skills.

Classic response from someone who is upset with their own life choices. You are a military doc; you are part of your own problem.

I am sure your patients must be very impressed with your maturity and ability, as a leader (officer) to improve your workplace. Your comment actually reminded me of the mindset of some of the officers that have worked over me. Arrogant, unable to be flexible enough or creative enough to fix problems, only interested in complaining about how bad things are, and generally a total a$$ that makes life worse for the rest of us.

I must be part of the leadership…the man keeping you down…hahaha, brilliant response!

 

[a1qwerty55]

I was just working at Ft. Bragg last month and I believe part of the improvements that the OP is see are directly due to a couple of good docs there. At one of the MTFs, one of the SF docs was able to work out a deal with the clinic director to allow him a few days a week to see clinic. Most operational docs lose their clinical skills, and this doc saw an opportunity to continue to see families to keep up his skills, and simultaneously improve access to care. The commander went for it, and since then, several other operational docs have followed suit. The result is better care for SF families. A similar thing has happend at Womac in the Fam Med Residency. They are essentially divided into 5 teams with 4 of those teams booking appts normally. The 5th team does not book appts long term and only opens appointments a few days ahead of time. This means, if you need to get in you can get it very fast. The only down side is that the pt's need to remember to book the appts when it's time. However, most pt's seem to love the system and the providers also have increased satisfaction. So, while it may be bad elsewhere, a few persistant and inventive docs have changed the system for the better.

BINGO - This is the point I've been driving home since I found this site. I look around, and see colleagues who are at times singlehandedly changing the system. Several Army docs looked around and noticed that there was no corporate solution to medical simulation and proposed funding a Simulation Center at every ARMY MTF with a residency program. It made sense, they briefed it at high levels and it got funded.

There are similar initiatives in the works. They could have taken the Bomberdork approach and just sulked and posted on how the military residencies don't have simulation equipment, or maybe procured some for their institution alone, but instead thought about the rest of the system.

I hate to break the news to those who would like to slander military physicians but you are FOS. Although we are all stressed those with some extra energy, and idealism can and regularly do make positive changes.

We have major issues, and the recent bonuses which astoundingly didn't go up (I can't believe they didn't increase FP, Peds, IM MSP rates) further highlight that the really higher ups just don't get it. Sometimes however, the worker bees, coerce the turds at the top so help us out. I actually think the turds want to do right, they just need someone to put it in very very simple English and harrass them till they come around.

In response to the OP, my experience is similar to yours regarding improved access to care, customer service etc. The technology is excellent, the docs are still intelligent and compassionate, the care has been excellent that I and my family have received.

 

[a1qwerty55]

He's not a leader or a real officer, and you won't be either. You're only an officer and a leader when it comes time to fry your ass for something.

You'll have no authority, you're part of the benefit and re-enlistment package to retain high school drop outs, single mothers, and other hard core unemployables and uninsurables.

Whenever I heard the term " flexable " it was really code for " look the other way" Somehow, mastering the ablity to bend over has become the template "leadership" skills.

Another scholar to join the ranks of Bomberdork, USAFdoc, Galo, - all fine examples of the USAF medical system.

 

[alpha62]

Another scholar to join the ranks of Bomberdork, USAFdoc, Galo, - all fine examples of the USAF medical system.

I was Army.

Self-delusion will get you nowhere, except promoted.

 

[AF M4]

Yes, but what I really want to know is IS IT ANY BETTER THAN INTERNSHIP??? I'm already halfway through my third sleep-deprivation induced personality change this month.

 

[Galo]

BINGO - This is the point I've been driving home since I found this site. I look around, and see colleagues who are at times singlehandedly changing the system. Several Army docs looked around and noticed that there was no corporate solution to medical simulation and proposed funding a Simulation Center at every ARMY MTF with a residency program. It made sense, they briefed it at high levels and it got funded.

There are similar initiatives in the works. They could have taken the Bomberdork approach and just sulked and posted on how the military residencies don't have simulation equipment, or maybe procured some for their institution alone, but instead thought about the rest of the system.

I hate to break the news to those who would like to slander military physicians but you are FOS. Although we are all stressed those with some extra energy, and idealism can and regularly do make positive changes.

We have major issues, and the recent bonuses which astoundingly didn't go up (I can't believe they didn't increase FP, Peds, IM MSP rates) further highlight that the really higher ups just don't get it. Sometimes however, the worker bees, coerce the turds at the top so help us out. I actually think the turds want to do right, they just need someone to put it in very very simple English and harrass them till they come around.

In response to the OP, my experience is similar to yours regarding improved access to care, customer service etc. The technology is excellent, the docs are still intelligent and compassionate, the care has been excellent that I and my family have received.

Once again, a single victory makes the entire system great!!! Where do I sign up again!!

You have your head up your green army A$$ so far, that you can't tell what we are critical of. We are not here to "slander military physicians", at least not in general, with certain exceptions of idiots like yourself who seem persistently deluded.

The vast majority of military physicians are young, go-getters, who often at their career detriment will bend over backwards to take care of our soldiers and their families. It's the fact that we often have to go against the rules, or constantly point out the stupidity of the rules, or wait endlessly while the bureaucracy full of non-physicians ponders endlessly about changing the rules, that makes life as a military physician pure hell.

Only when a physician turns into one of those *****s who keeps and makes policy that is detrimental to the care of soldiers, or simply accepts it like a 9-5 schedule is when I have a problem with them.

Also, who here as a physician miitary or otherwise has had a problem securing good care. Unspoken as it may be, we tend to bend over-backwards in caring for a physican or their families. Not that we did not do that for everybody else, but its an unwritten rule of professional courtesty.

As for "technology is excellent", that sounds just like a recruitment poster. You may come back saying my experience is specific to the AF only, but I can tell you we did not have the "excellent" technology you seem to have.

Once again, you act as predicted. The military officer first, physican second.

 

[alpha62]

Isolated winners. Every ponzi scheme in history always lets a few suckers win now and then to keep the con going and bring in fresh blood to build up the pyramid.

Once again, a single victory makes the entire system great!!! Where do I sign up again!!

You have your head up your green army A$$ so far, that you can't tell what we are critical of. We are not here to "slander military physicians", at least not in general, with certain exceptions of idiots like yourself who seem persistently deluded.

The vast majority of military physicians are young, go-getters, who often at their career detriment will bend over backwards to take care of our soldiers and their families. It's the fact that we often have to go against the rules, or constantly point out the stupidity of the rules, or wait endlessly while the bureaucracy full of non-physicians ponders endlessly about changing the rules, that makes life as a military physician pure hell.

Only when a physician turns into one of those *****s who keeps and makes policy that is detrimental to the care of soldiers, or simply accepts it like a 9-5 schedule is when I have a problem with them.

Also, who here as a physician miitary or otherwise has had a problem securing good care. Unspoken as it may be, we tend to bend over-backwards in caring for a physican or their families. Not that we did not do that for everybody else, but its an unwritten rule of professional courtesty.

As for "technology is excellent", that sounds just like a recruitment poster. You may come back saying my experience is specific to the AF only, but I can tell you we did not have the "excellent" technology you seem to have.

Once again, you act as predicted. The military officer first, physican second.

 

[a1qwerty55]

You have your head up your green army A$$,.... with certain exceptions of idiots like yourself who seem persistently deluded.

Only when a physician turns into one of those *****s

The military officer first, physican second.

Thanks for another well crafted point, counterpoint argument. I guess your folks didn't get your money's worth at Tranny U.

Now that I have vented...

Where have I ever stated or implied that I accept anything less than first class care? This is one of your common refrains, everyone who has a positive experience accepts mediocrity.

Where did I ever say that being a miliary officer trumps being a physician?

What do you know about me? Is it so hard to imagine that others actually are suceeding in the system, without being co-opted by it? Why the vitriol? What is wrong in Galo's world currently? There has to be something, and the USAF isn't the cause.

 

[Galo]

Thanks for another well crafted point, counterpoint argument. I guess your folks didn't get your money's worth at Tranny U.

Now that I have vented...

Where have I ever stated or implied that I accept anything less than first class care? This is one of your common refrains, everyone who has a positive experience accepts mediocrity.

Where did I ever say that being a miliary officer trumps being a physician?

What do you know about me? Is it so hard to imagine that others actually are suceeding in the system, without being co-opted by it? Why the vitriol? What is wrong in Galo's world currently? There has to be something, and the USAF isn't the cause.

Refer to the tricare post for this ongoing saga.

Its hard to get anything other than mediocrity when you work in a system that's well know to flourish in it.

It may be a common refrain for people with severely narrow experience who try to say nothing is wrong. Again, I acknowledge you posting something negative before, (hence your fear of being outed). However, if someone else does is, you have to go and discredit them so that the information they post, must somehow not be valid. The vitriol is just reactionary. Much the same way I ended up in trouble when an intelligent well thought out plan to benefit everybody was summarily screwed by someone in command who was there only for their benefit. Is that who you are??

I don't have the room to explain officership and being a physician. If you do not get that one, you are likely too far gone. But it should be not taken for granted that when you sign your life away to the military, they will expect you to funtion first as a military officer (PERIOD). That means you follow orders. Sometimes those orders may be counterproductive to efficient, safe, excellent medical care, and that's where problems occur.

You ask for facts. The book "Oath Betrayed", had a whole bunch of facts on how complicit medical officers were in the sytematic torture of prisoners. But then again, you may beleive in such a thing. See, its hard to know how to label you when you fear so much those who you protect. Till then, you have shown yourself to be a company yes man all the way. And damned be those who do not fall in line. Its amazing to see how intelligent people can fall into such stupidity. I am assuming you are somewhat intelligent, as you must have graduated from med school. I do not recall you ever telling us your specialty, are you a GMO? How is it that you can defend a system you know is messed up. At the very least, why hide the truth. Even if it lies somewhere between our experiences, it is certainly NOT what is advertised. So give the personal attacks a break, and I will do the same.

All this started because I said I thought the survey is a spin. SO you can say in your experience AT YOUR BASE, its not. Leave it at that. No need to insult me and belittle my 6 years of Honorable service. I will remind you I did have an HONORABLE DISCHARGE, so no matter what I did, where I crossed the street, what meeting I walked out of, and what letter I wrote in complaint, denigrates my service to this country. I'm done with you!

 

[alpha62]

Thanks for another well crafted point, counterpoint argument. I guess your folks didn't get your money's worth at Tranny U.

Now that I have vented...

Where have I ever stated or implied that I accept anything less than first class care? This is one of your common refrains, everyone who has a positive experience accepts mediocrity.

Where did I ever say that being a miliary officer trumps being a physician?

What do you know about me? Is it so hard to imagine that others actually are suceeding in the system, without being co-opted by it? Why the vitriol? What is wrong in Galo's world currently? There has to be something, and the USAF isn't the cause.

Yeah, we've got a 20 year retired guy in our group now. he really picked up some bad habits and he's going through one hell of a learning curve trying to get up to speed in the real world of the market place. we're all jumping thorugh our ass covering him down and cleaning up after him and he doesn't even have a freaken clue it's happening.

Of course... he did have a positive exp. in his 20 years of service and he was happy. Lab rats are pretty happy too as long as they get their daily ration of rat chow after a days work running through the maze.

 

[a1qwerty55]

Refer to the tricare post for this ongoing saga.

Its hard to get anything other than mediocrity when you work in a system that's well know to flourish in it.

It may be a common refrain for people with severely narrow experience who try to say nothing is wrong. Again, I acknowledge you posting something negative before, (hence your fear of being outed). However, if someone else does is, you have to go and discredit them so that the information they post, must somehow not be valid. The vitriol is just reactionary. Much the same way I ended up in trouble when an intelligent well thought out plan to benefit everybody was summarily screwed by someone in command who was there only for their benefit. Is that who you are??

I don't have the room to explain officership and being a physician. If you do not get that one, you are likely too far gone. But it should be not taken for granted that when you sign your life away to the military, they will expect you to funtion first as a military officer (PERIOD). That means you follow orders. Sometimes those orders may be counterproductive to efficient, safe, excellent medical care, and that's where problems occur.

You ask for facts. The book "Oath Betrayed", had a whole bunch of facts on how complicit medical officers were in the sytematic torture of prisoners. But then again, you may beleive in such a thing. See, its hard to know how to label you when you fear so much those who you protect. Till then, you have shown yourself to be a company yes man all the way. And damned be those who do not fall in line. Its amazing to see how intelligent people can fall into such stupidity. I am assuming you are somewhat intelligent, as you must have graduated from med school. I do not recall you ever telling us your specialty, are you a GMO? How is it that you can defend a system you know is messed up. At the very least, why hide the truth. Even if it lies somewhere between our experiences, it is certainly NOT what is advertised. So give the personal attacks a break, and I will do the same.

All this started because I said I thought the survey is a spin. SO you can say in your experience AT YOUR BASE, its not. Leave it at that. No need to insult me and belittle my 6 years of Honorable service. I will remind you I did have an HONORABLE DISCHARGE, so no matter what I did, where I crossed the street, what meeting I walked out of, and what letter I wrote in complaint, denigrates my service to this country. I'm done with you!

Dude, are you an ESL student?

You are the first guy to throw out insults but then become wounded when I point out the inconsistencies of your posts. Let's not forget who started throwing stones first sister.

A honorable discharge in no way implies honorable service. To get a general or less than honorable d/c you have committed a crime... and been convicted.

 

[Galo]

Dude, are you an ESL student?

You are the first guy to throw out insults but then become wounded when I point out the inconsistencies of your posts. Let's not forget who started throwing stones first sister.

A honorable discharge in no way implies honorable service. To get a general or less than honorable d/c you have committed a crime... and been convicted.

Nancy, when you stop your honking you'll be much better off. Like I said before, you have nothing good to contribute, crawl back to your mediocre life, in mediocre medicine. It seems to suit you well.
As for insults, you sarcastically called me a scholar lumped along with those others you have disdain for. Although not an outright insult, I think its comparable with *****, exactly what you've shown here. Want to keep playing tit Nancy?

 

[alpha62]

Another successfull sell out and career officer from history .....

Name: Dathan

MOS: Sadistic Task master ( But the Command really likes him ! )

Secondary MOS: Chief ass-kiss in charge

Favorite Drink: the blood of his battle buddies

Last book Read: How to succeed in Bondage Without Really Trying or How I learned to quit worrying and love the whip.

Favorite Career Advice: I bowed lowest before the Egyptians, now they bow before me !

 

[BomberDoc]

No hurt feelings here. Although the thing about my parents being ashamed was a bit much.

Hey man, I was just thinking back many years to when I told my Dad I decided to pay for med school by joining the military. He flat out told me I was a giant idiot for doing it. Now I totally agree with him. He volunteered during Vietnam and had nothing good to say about it. Another case of should have taken the old man's advice.

I'm glad to see the discussion has continued happily along while I've been gone a few days.

 

[alpha62]

Hey man, I was just thinking back many years to when I told my Dad I decided to pay for med school by joining the military. He flat out told me I was a giant idiot for doing it. Now I totally agree with him. He volunteered during Vietnam and had nothing good to say about it. Another case of should have taken the old man's advice.

I'm glad to see the discussion has continued happily along while I've been gone a few days.

It's easier to just take the gov't payback program working an underserved american location. I've worked in some real turdpiles in this country, but a bad day in margaritaville down on the border beats the hell out of good day being stabbed in the back at a " high tech " MTF at the mercy of some future HMO worm.