MGMA Data - Anesthesia Pain Management (Interventional) 2019

[jballer89]

Hello! does anyone PLEASEEE by chance have a copy of the MGMA data for anesthesia pain management (interventional)? 2019 is preferred but 2018 is obv ok also. Please if someone could email them to me I will be incredibly grateful. We are all in relatively the same boat and it truly would help alot. Please let me know. My email is: [email protected]

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[SommeRiver]

Another MGMA thread.

 

[paindoc007]

Damn dude. You can’t search? Here’s one:

2018 MGMA data for those curious

I just found the spreadsheet from UNC Medicine: https://www.med.unc.edu/fbo/files/2018/08/Funds-Flow-Benchmark-Request-Form.xlsx. Click on MGMA (it's the second last option on the bottom) and you can view the median 2018 MGMA numbers for all specialties. Hope that helps - this took forever to find!

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Ligament]

Thank you for posting this! Who compiles such a report?

View attachment 277219

 

[GIMD1429]

View attachment 277219

You have compensation data for GI ?

 

[lonelobo]

You have compensation data for GI ?

wrong specialty blog elsewhere

 

[georgiamd]

is there data for professional collections

 

[georgiamd]

Thank you. When I look at this data, it is very confusing to me. If we just look at the median, how could the average collection be 509k and compensation be 453k. A rough estimate I've heard for overhead is 40%.

I looked at a job where the doctor collected 800k last year, walked home with 360k. Is this good? I know there are many variables, but 800k seems like decent collections to make less than 25 percentile money.

 

[clubdeac]

There was a year where I collected 1.1 million and only took home 250k. I left that job shortly thereafter

 

[painfree23]

There was a year where I collected 1.1 million and only took home 250k. I left that job shortly thereafter

wow. can you explain how ur boss justified that?

 

[SSdoc33]

There was a year where I collected 1.1 million and only took home 250k. I left that job shortly thereafter

1.1 in profession fees or professional + facility?

 

[Ducttape]

he posted his experiences on a couple of threads I believe, such as this one:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/advice-please.1073451/

 

[deleted573262]

is pain getting saturated. the 5 year change is >40%.

Percentage Change in the Number of Active Physicians by Specialty, 2012-17

Percentage Change in the Number of Active Physicians by Specialty, 2012-17

www.aamc.org

 

[drusso]

is pain getting saturated. the 5 year change is >40%.

Percentage Change in the Number of Active Physicians by Specialty, 2012-17

Percentage Change in the Number of Active Physicians by Specialty, 2012-17

www.aamc.org

It's been getting saturated since the 1990's.

 

[clubdeac]

1.1 in profession fees or professional + facility?

Was in a private office setting. I think billed was closer to 2 mil, total collected 1.1 mil and paid $250k

 

[clubdeac]

wow. can you explain how ur boss justified that?

The practice manger and head partners were basically stealing all the non partners' money. They should be in jail

 

[deleted573262]

It's been getting saturated since the 1990's.

why does no one talk about this? seems like a problem.

 

[painfree23]

why does no one talk about this? seems like a problem.

Has the number of fellowships increased that much or is it “weekend course” pain docs?

 

[SSdoc33]

Was in a private office setting. I think billed was closer to 2 mil, total collected 1.1 mil and paid $250k

highway robbery

 

[deleted573262]

Has the number of fellowships increased that much or is it “weekend course” pain docs?

>25% spots offered in the last five years for fellowship.

 

[deleted993114]

Thank you. When I look at this data, it is very confusing to me. If we just look at the median, how could the average collection be 509k and compensation be 453k. A rough estimate I've heard for overhead is 40%.

I looked at a job where the doctor collected 800k last year, walked home with 360k. Is this good? I know there are many variables, but 800k seems like decent collections to make less than 25 percentile money.

That is actually pretty cheap gross overhead costs.

I have been perplexed as to why so many anesthesia guys choose pain medicine now. Every little burg on the planet seems to have a guy there and the salaries have been trending down.

Too much greed. I remember when we couldn’t get anyone. Then the reimbursement went up and then everyone wanted to do it. Unfortunately , the field became flooded with foreign doctors with dubious qualifications and irreparably harmed the field.

Everytthing is cyclic. Perhaps in 10-20 years when the excesses are wrung out it will be good again.

 

[Ferrismonk]

That is actually pretty cheap gross overhead costs.

I have been perplexed as to why so many anesthesia guys choose pain medicine now. Every little burg on the planet seems to have a guy there and the salaries have been trending down.

Too much greed. I remember when we couldn’t get anyone. Then the reimbursement went up and then everyone wanted to do it. Unfortunately , the field became flooded with foreign doctors with dubious qualifications and irreparably harmed the field.

Everytthing is cyclic. Perhaps in 10-20 years when the excesses are wrung out it will be good again.

This is the case in my area. I'm surrounded by "non-accredited fellowship" trained docs (often not Anesthesia or PMR) who write tons of opiates, give DME, and do procedures. Makes it very difficult for an independent low-dose opiate doc to break in.

 

[deleted573262]

it's tragic. i'm in a small field that's over-expanded and we have the same issues. it's unchecked greed. would never advise students to join my field. i don't see them much anymore which means they probably got the message. dunno about you all.

 

[paindoc007]

it's tragic. i'm in a small field that's over-expanded and we have the same issues. it's unchecked greed. would never advise students to join my field. i don't see them much anymore which means they probably got the message. dunno about you all.

Ugh. Such doom and gloom. And what do you suggest is better to students? Psychiatry? Pediatrics? Look at those salaries. IR or interv cards, with their call? No thanks. Neurosurgery, okay.. enjoy that lifestyle choice. We have a great field.

 

[Ferrismonk]

Ugh. Such doom and gloom. And what do you suggest is better to students? Psychiatry? Pediatrics? Look at those salaries. IR or interv cards, with their call? No thanks. Neurosurgery, okay.. enjoy that lifestyle choice. We have a great field.

I tell students to do what makes them excited and feel fulfilled. Call schedule and salary are secondary to that.

 

[slippery_when_wet]

ive noticed alot of fellowships have increased their class size (more than 75% of the fellowships ive interviewed at during the most recent application cycle).

i dont understand why this is not more controlled. people in these positions are killing the field

 

[drusso]

Ugh. Such doom and gloom. And what do you suggest is better to students? Psychiatry? Pediatrics? Look at those salaries. IR or interv cards, with their call? No thanks. Neurosurgery, okay.. enjoy that lifestyle choice. We have a great field.

My friends in Derm are over the moon. A couple of Moh's guys I know have a single specialty "Skin Center" ASC, medi-spa, derm path lab, and mobile "mole-mobile" that goes out to rural communities for skin-checks and biopsies.

Should have done Derm. No hospital politics, no call, no dumps from PCPs for opioid tapers, etc. It's as close as you can get to heaven on earth for being a doctor. And, these guys are both FIRED with net worths over $15M a piece just 12 years out. They work for fun now.

 

[sdnuser001]

My friends in Derm are over the moon. A couple of Moh's guys I know have a single specialty "Skin Center" ASC, medi-spa, derm path lab, and mobile "mole-mobile" that goes out to rural communities for skin-checks and biopsies.

Should have done Derm. No hospital politics, no call, no dumps from PCPs for opioid tapers, etc. It's as close as you can get to heaven on earth for being a doctor. And, these guys are both FIRED with net worths over $15M a piece just 12 years out. They work for fun now.

Lol if only it was that easy for everyone to "do" derm

 

[clubdeac]

My friends in Derm are over the moon. A couple of Moh's guys I know have a single specialty "Skin Center" ASC, medi-spa, derm path lab, and mobile "mole-mobile" that goes out to rural communities for skin-checks and biopsies.

Should have done Derm. No hospital politics, no call, no dumps from PCPs for opioid tapers, etc. It's as close as you can get to heaven on earth for being a doctor. And, these guys are both FIRED with net worths over $15M a piece just 12 years out. They work for fun now.

Go over to the derm forums and you’ll see a different story. They are just as doom and gloom as us. They’re worrying about falling reimbursements, Medicare dropping modifiers like -25, PE firm buyouts, and NP encroachment. It’s very interesting to read some of their threads

 

[drusso]

Go over to the derm forums and you’ll see a different story. They are just as doom and gloom as us. They’re worrying about falling reimbursements, Medicare dropping modifiers like -25, PE firm buyouts, and NP encroachment. It’s very interesting to read some of their threads

I'm open to talking to PE firms.

 

[EndoSpine]

Does anyone have the newest data, ie 2019 handy? Like what Ronin posted?
I am specifically looking for the dollar per RVU and percentile breakdown.
And yes I tried searching the web and the forums without luck!
Thanks so much for the help in advance

 

[sevo00]

i like how people just say should have done derm. literally the hardest field to match into. have to do well all through out medschool and on top of that do tons of research. Yeha if i had a step score 260+ obviously i would have done derm too.

 

[paindoc007]

Meh, a few dudes who are multi millionaires is not a great example. It’s like someone looking at the Tim Deers of the world “Man those pain guys have it made. I wish I did pain”..

Fact is all specialities have their difficulties and problems. If Derm was so great, average salary would be 900k. But it’s not.

I stand by my statement from before, We have a great specialty.

 

[drusso]

i like how people just say should have done derm. literally the hardest field to match into. have to do well all through out medschool and on top of that do tons of research. Yeha if i had a step score 260+ obviously i would have done derm too.

The competitive nature of Derm is due to policies that create artificial scarcity. When was the last time a derm residency opened up? Meanwhile, ACGME is training family doctors to be pain specialists.

 

[sevo00]

The competitive nature of Derm is due to policies that create artificial scarcity. When was the last time a derm residency opened up? Meanwhile, ACGME is training family doctors to be pain specialists.

due to artificial scarcity or not, that doesn't change the fact that its still the most competitive residency to match into. Telling people simply "just do derm" is not real advice.

 

[Ligament]

due to artificial scarcity or not, that doesn't change the fact that its still the most competitive residency to match into. Telling people simply "just do derm" is not real advice.

drrusso is brilliant so he could have done derm like he says. The rest of us...maybe a few.

 

[drusso]

due to artificial scarcity or not, that doesn't change the fact that its still the most competitive residency to match into. Telling people simply "just do derm" is not real advice.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a Dermatologist? Were they an intellectual powerhouse or just diligent in pursuit of their goals?

 

[hyperalgesia]

My friends in Derm are over the moon. A couple of Moh's guys I know have a single specialty "Skin Center" ASC, medi-spa, derm path lab, and mobile "mole-mobile" that goes out to rural communities for skin-checks and biopsies.

Should have done Derm. No hospital politics, no call, no dumps from PCPs for opioid tapers, etc. It's as close as you can get to heaven on earth for being a doctor. And, these guys are both FIRED with net worths over $15M a piece just 12 years out. They work for fun now.

There was only ONE Moh's guy in my medium sized city for about 20 years. I think he has a partner now and continues to be absolutely swamped and only accepts pts with biopsy proven cx amenable to Moh's. I don't want to know his income.

 

[hyperalgesia]

If you were offered a spot in Derm residency now, at this point in your career, would you take it?

I'm past that point. If you offered me a position as an astronaut, sure.

 

[DOctorJay]

Does anyone have the newest data, ie 2019 handy? Like what Ronin posted?
I am specifically looking for the dollar per RVU and percentile breakdown.
And yes I tried searching the web and the forums without luck!
Thanks so much for the help in advance

 

[EndoSpine]

Doctor Jay you da man!
thanks so much for sharing!!

 

[NJPAIN]

Are there anyone in leaderships positions on this forum? why do we keep expanding pain fellowships?? killing your own field.

I think that this is the fault of department chairs and fellowship program directors. They want two things. First they want lots of worker bees in the form of trainees to crank out the cases. Second, they want their programs to be BIG. All about mine is bigger than yours. Trust me, they don’t give crap one about flooding the field and the implications on private practice. I was in academics throughout the 90s. They flooded the field with anesthesiologists. Starting salaries for graduating residents were lower than for RNs on the medical units. Top tier programs were recruiting FMGs because no US grads wanted to train and work for nothing. The Dept Chairs didn’t volunteer to downsize. Programs downsized because no one wanted to enter the field and slots were unfilled. My Dept Chair would have accepted monkeys in the program to keep the numbers up if she could have gotten away with it.


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[deleted573262]

I think that this is the fault of department chairs and fellowship program directors. They want two things. First they want lots of worker bees in the form of trainees to crank out the cases. Second, they want their programs to be BIG. All about mine is bigger than yours. Trust me, they don’t give crap one about flooding the field and the implications on private practice. I was in academics throughout the 90s. They flooded the field with anesthesiologists. Starting salaries for graduating residents were lower than for RNs on the medical units. Top tier programs were recruiting FMGs because no US grads wanted to train and work for nothing. The Dept Chairs didn’t volunteer to downsize. Programs downsized because no one wanted to enter the field and slots were unfilled. My Dept Chair would have accepted monkeys in the program to keep the numbers up if she could have gotten away with it.


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department chairs are size queens - the bigger the program the better. program directors only care about one thing and its sick - filling their spots with cheap labor. the gravy train is over for many fields and now academic ivory towers are fatty and feeling hungry for seconds - residents turned fellows.

 

[Ducttape]

interestingly on that MGMA data - derm salary appears to be similar to pain salary, with the exception of derm Moh's surgeons. they make $800K average.

it doesn't seem all roses though...

Mohs Surgeon Job Market

Any recent fellowship graduates who have tested the job market have any input? I'd imagine finding a full-time Mohs job in a city would be hard, rural would be easier. Just looking for anecdotal evidence of the difficulty of securing full-time mohs, and salary

forums.studentdoctor.net

Why not Mohs?

I'm wondering why not more dermatology residents pursue a Mohs/procedural fellowship? They make twice as much as the typical dermatologist and come second after neurosurgery in terms of income potential (>1 million). Is there some hidden caveat (more call?)

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[SSdoc33]

Any headers for this data?

Regional? Academic vs. non-academic?


Those numbers , salaries, and $/RVU seem high....

 

[clubdeac]

seems pain guys dont really make that much compared to other subspecialists derm, gi, cards, pulm/cc, heme/onc, surgery specialties etc

more on par with rads, anes, and em

and your point is???

 

[clubdeac]

I was just surprised. thought pain guys made more reading the salaries that people posted on this forum.

you must've been reading hawkeye's posts

 

[Ligament]

you must've been reading hawkeye's posts

Yeah im making less now than ever before. Hawkeye was an outlier, but good in him for it.


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[drusso]

seems pain guys dont really make that much compared to other subspecialists derm, gi, cards, pulm/cc, heme/onc, surgery specialties etc

more on par with rads, anes, and em

Pain lacks political unity to be effective at protecting our interests. Derm, cards, heme/onc are better advocates.

 

[SommeRiver]

Pain lacks political unity to be effective at protecting our interests. Derm, cards, heme/onc are better advocates.

Noooooooo...You don't say?

This forum is a snapshot of the community and the back and forths here prove there's no consistency in the field, and everyone has his or her own opinion on how to do something, when a treatment is right or wrong, or how to prescribe certain meds.

I'd imagine psych is the same considering we see a similar patient population.