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Or, as I told the wining soon to be ER resident..........Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way.
Medical Students w/ Children...question
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Or, as I told the wining soon to be ER resident..........Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way.
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Hello everyone, this is my first post though I have frequented these forums for over a year now. I just had to chime in on this topic. I am a pre-med student right now and I just finished up 5 years active duty Army. During those 5 years I have been away from my wife and daughter for 3 of them, not sitting safely on some FOB over there but rather as an Infantryman out doing the fighting. I saw my daughter for 3 months out of her first 16. This last deployment I had a period of 5 months when I had exactly one day off and most of the rest of the 15 months weren't much different, and this in 120F heat with 60+ pounds of gear. Daily IVs were a way of life hah. The deployment before that in Afghanistan, I had several periods of one month or more when I could only talk to my wife on the phone for a precious 10 minutes or less. Email was equally inaccessible over there. I won't even try to articulate how exceedingly difficult our "work conditions" were. I'm not complaining for the simple fact that I chose it, I volunteered for it. However I think this justifies me in commenting here on how time demanding careers can put a strain on a relationship. As Scottish Chap and some others have so wisely pointed out, there are many very difficult jobs in addition to that of medicine. Most of which have the luxury of allowing you to at least communicate consistently with your wife and of not having to worry about getting shot or blown up.
Certainly I have seen a great many other soldiers marriages disintegrate due to the long months away and the sometimes very limited communication back home. It can be very difficult, but I have also seen many soldier's relationships make it. My wife and I have a wonderful marriage, and it has only gotten stronger. An old Special Forces soldier once told me that the military, and I dare extend this to any difficult job, is like a magnifying glass on your marriage. If you have a good marriage it will generally get better, if you have a poor marriage it will generally get worse. Some people don't truly know what kind of a marriage they have until that magnifying glass of trial and tribulation comes out.
I attribute the continued happiness of my marriage through very trying times, to my wife, and that is my humble piece of advice here. That so much depends on the spouse. Of course your own efforts are essential as any relationship requires equal efforts from both elements but your wife/husband must be a VERY understanding and very patient person. They must go into it knowing that they are every bit as much a part of it as you are, and be as fully aware of what it entails. That is when I saw marriages fail, when there wasn't understanding, agreement, or ability to deal with and adjust to the way of life. I am good friends with a doctor I have known for 3 years now that went through medical school and his residency with 3 children. They are a great family and have a very stable relationship. I have talked to him a lot about his experience and he said it was very hard, but as in my case with continued combat deployments, he attributed most of it to his wife and her understanding and support.
Some make it, some don't, same as any marriage. I believe it is entirely up to the husband and wife, no matter the circumstances.
Sheesh, that's enough writing from me for another year!
THANK YOU for your service to our country..........also, your post was very insightful. I am an older non trad and have a 15 year old son. I swear the easier he has it in life, the more miserable he is. We have unfortunately spoiled him for the most part. Even though he thinks he will be happy when he gets the ipod touch, he is miserable when the 2nd generation one comes out and will make evryeon around him miserable.
I say that everyone should grow up with some adversity. It is a character builder. It may put things into perspective for a lot of people. with so many options out there, it is just too easy to jump ship.....
Not sure what the purpose of my rant was, but if there are any of the married folks reading this that are having struggles in their marriage, take anight and go to Blockbuster and rent the movie "Fireproof". get a sitter if necessary, watch it with your spouse. I can't guarantee it will have the effect on your marriage as it did mine, but there is always the chance it will change your perspective. Once your perspective changes and you start seeing things differently it is amazing how easy things get.
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Please take this junk elsewhere
I'm sorry, did I wander into the Sunshine and Puppy-dog Forum? Medical school and residency will demand a significant amount of your finite time, probably more than most other careers. Residency in particular, for most specialties, will be particularly time-intensive and will demand your complete attention for long periods of time after which you will be physically and emotionally exhausted in a way that very few of you can imagine.
And pray don't give me that "Well, I was in the military" crap implying that you know what to expect. I was in the Marine Corps for almost eight years, in both tanks and then the Infantry, and know a thing or two about physical exhaustion but that was a walk in the park compared to the slow grind of residency. Sure, you won't sweat, freeze, bleed, or carry a 100-pound pack as a resident but the constant cycle of long hours, sleep deprivation, crappy diet, lack of sunlight, and lack of exercise will take their toll on you and your relationship with your spouse. To insist that they won't is to set yourself up, like I did, for a major failure as there is no relationship so strong that any cracks in it will not widen into large gaps by the time you are done with your five years of Surgery residency or even your three years of Family Medicine (which is not, as you may believe, an easy residency at all).
Do you think me and every other resident warning you about medical training is just making it up or has an axe to grind? Dude, I only have eight weeks left of residency. I am done, in other words and there is nothing in it for me to tell you about the strange and oftentimes repulsive country over whose borders you have yet to cross. You know exactly what about medical training?
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Yeah. I saw what you wrote. But I submit this respectfully:
You and EricH: Medical Training: 0 year 0 months 0 days
Me: Medical Training: 7 years 7 months 23 days
I'm not attacking you guys. Just giving advice and a warning.
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I know that someone who makes statements like this one
, probably isn't worth listening to. You don't know who I am, where I have been or what I know. I could be a PhD, or an RN with 20 years of experience, or BOTH. I also know enough not to make blanket statements that are gross generalizations about people I don't know.
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I know that someone who makes statements like this one
I also know enough not to make blanket statements that are gross generalizations about people I don't know.
I've got about 1,005,000 pages served off of my blog and almost half a million unique visits that say otherwise.
www.studentdoctor.net/pandabearmd
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I think med school with one kid + spouse/fiance type would be doable.
However, you may not be able to get the grades you want in 1st/2nd year and still have much time to spend with your kid...but don't worry b/c 1st/2nd year grades really do not count for a whole lot anyway...3rd year by itself is at least as important as 1st/2nd years put together. I honestly think it would be pretty darned hard to get through med school + residency with a child or children, but people do it not that uncommonly...I think as people posted above, you have to accept that you won't really have time for med school extracurricular activities, and will spend most all your time either studying or hanging out with your family.
I am not married, but it seems that a lot of this would depend on having an understanding spouse. Also, like the vast majority of other med students (those married + not married) you'll probably have to accept that you can't be at or near the top of your class all the time, as most all med students were @the top of their college classes and not all can be in med school.
Personally, I found 3rd year of med school and intern year to be the worst, but the rest of med school + residency was no cakewalk (and that was without a spouse or kids to answer to). The stress level and difficulty of residency I think really does vary a lot according to what specialty you pick, and where you train. There are orders of magnitude difference in the work load and hours required between, say, trauma surg or neurosurg @ a university med center, vs. psychiatry or something at a cushy program.
I think you should forge ahead...you can do this, because many others have. On one hand, you have more to juggle, but on the other hand, you will have support @home...when I was a resident, there was nobody there when I got home @night except my wilted plant
One thing I think we have to be careful about as med students and residents is becoming too self-absorbed...it is so damn hard sometimes that it's hard not to feel sorry for yourself, and feel underappreciated as well. The problem is other people (patients, your family members, etc.) can't really walk in your shoes and you can't expect them to always be thanking you or rolling out the red carpet for you, just because you've been made to suffer (i.e. sleep deprived, hungry, being abused by a senior resident, etc.). Some weeks and months you just have to slog through, and they are going to suck,but if you like medicine in spite of it that helps a lot.
However, you may not be able to get the grades you want in 1st/2nd year and still have much time to spend with your kid...but don't worry b/c 1st/2nd year grades really do not count for a whole lot anyway...3rd year by itself is at least as important as 1st/2nd years put together. I honestly think it would be pretty darned hard to get through med school + residency with a child or children, but people do it not that uncommonly...I think as people posted above, you have to accept that you won't really have time for med school extracurricular activities, and will spend most all your time either studying or hanging out with your family.
I am not married, but it seems that a lot of this would depend on having an understanding spouse. Also, like the vast majority of other med students (those married + not married) you'll probably have to accept that you can't be at or near the top of your class all the time, as most all med students were @the top of their college classes and not all can be in med school.
Personally, I found 3rd year of med school and intern year to be the worst, but the rest of med school + residency was no cakewalk (and that was without a spouse or kids to answer to). The stress level and difficulty of residency I think really does vary a lot according to what specialty you pick, and where you train. There are orders of magnitude difference in the work load and hours required between, say, trauma surg or neurosurg @ a university med center, vs. psychiatry or something at a cushy program.
I think you should forge ahead...you can do this, because many others have. On one hand, you have more to juggle, but on the other hand, you will have support @home...when I was a resident, there was nobody there when I got home @night except my wilted plant
One thing I think we have to be careful about as med students and residents is becoming too self-absorbed...it is so damn hard sometimes that it's hard not to feel sorry for yourself, and feel underappreciated as well. The problem is other people (patients, your family members, etc.) can't really walk in your shoes and you can't expect them to always be thanking you or rolling out the red carpet for you, just because you've been made to suffer (i.e. sleep deprived, hungry, being abused by a senior resident, etc.). Some weeks and months you just have to slog through, and they are going to suck,but if you like medicine in spite of it that helps a lot.
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It's easy to pile on until you've been there, done that...
Have you done a residency?
Have you done a residency?
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What on Earth does that mean? Lead where? Lead who? Get out of whose way? It's just a platitude and means nothing in respect to most of medical training where you will not be leading and you will not be given the option to get the hell out of the way.
As for medicine changing me, isn't that what I have been telling you on this thread? You will be a different person when you finish residency and not just different because ten years have gone by. Most of the change will be for the better and will be acceptable of at least tolerable to your spouse but some of it will not.
And it will be you. Guaranteed. Not "could be" at all. You're going to look up from your second or third month of intern year and realize with what a goat rodeo you are involved and wish that you had done something different. As the years go by you will get more comfortable as a physician and begin to enjoy your job more but you will now have become extremely cynical at the waste, the insanity, and the ridiculousness of much of your job and realize that you have sacrificed too much for too little. Then you'll get close to getting done and think it's kind of cool to be a physician and hope that the money will make up for your sacrifice.
But you may have lost your spouse along the way. And I still haven't told you the worst thing about medical training in regard to your marriage and I hesitate to do so because it will ignite a firestorm of indignation and protestations that "It Could Never Happen To Us."
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That is just fantastic, you totally showed me
Obviously there are a small city's worth of people who disagree with you is all I'm saying.
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I read plenty of blogs where I disagree author on certain issues (yours included). Readership =/= agreement
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Dude. I'm living the friggin' dream. I'm almost done with residency, have a great job lined up for a good-some-might-say-obscene salary, and I know what I'm doing and am generally regarded as a good resident and good physician even if like most graduating residents I feel like a little bit of a fraud.
And, like most physicians who do the doctor thing right, and I include most of my colleagues and fellow residents, even those who may not have the extensive life-experiences of the non-traditional students, I am wise beyond my years and much sadder for it but why this makes me an empty shell of a man is not clear. Is a complete man only one who is a Pollyanna, an insufferable optimist and perpetually sunny even as the lambs are lead to slaughter and the Horsemen are abroad?
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See, you missed it. I didn't say the small city's worth of people who read my blog agree with me, many don't and I let them express their disagreement as they please, but only that they think I am worth listening to.
Readership equals interest in my opinion.
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But are you living the dream, or did you sacrifice too much? And what did you lose, your innocence? Didn't you lose that in the Corp?
I gotta say, I'm a little confused by the whole residency-is-worse-than-service thing.. I mean, how did it internship or residency change you for the worse? Are you referring to losing people? Or just putting up with the rigors of the goat playground.
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I know what it meant in the Marines. What does it mean to a medical student or a resident?
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And interest does not equal being worth listening to. Lots of people were interested in what OJ wrote in his book "If I Did It," that dosen't mean they all thought he had a good idea.
Why are we even fighting? We are never going to agree. I think you made a crappy statement and I probably should not have called you out....it did no good. You think I am not worthy of the conversation because I don't have your status.
We are each entitled to our opinions, here's mine:
I hope you are wrong.
Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way
The question for me, Melanoleuca, and in the context of this conversation, is not what it means to medicine, or the Marines, but what it means to us this afternoon.
This thread was started to solicit a shared experience regarding the balance of life and medicine. Part of that balance is enduring the hard days and years. Slings come at us in a lifetime. They hurt, as we all well know. Sometimes work and life are traumatic. But those days need not condemn us or the people we love.
Medicine wil have its share of trials, as you've made me well aware. And I expect that it will change me, but without being Polyanna I can prepare myself with a personal foundation that's essential before taking on any task. To some extent I can determine the kind of change it brings in me.
As for Melanoleuca.
You're an exhibitionist. You've let alot show over the years and your readers have come to know your voice, and it's frankly interesting to be in a conversation with you. But since I last read your writing there are alot of cracks showing. And I meant what I said. Shell was a bit strong I admit but you're alot better than your last few posts. I'm pretty sure that you're a leader when you choose to be. So, may I suggest a little less discord and a little more of that old-time Panda religion?
The question for me, Melanoleuca, and in the context of this conversation, is not what it means to medicine, or the Marines, but what it means to us this afternoon.
This thread was started to solicit a shared experience regarding the balance of life and medicine. Part of that balance is enduring the hard days and years. Slings come at us in a lifetime. They hurt, as we all well know. Sometimes work and life are traumatic. But those days need not condemn us or the people we love.
Medicine wil have its share of trials, as you've made me well aware. And I expect that it will change me, but without being Polyanna I can prepare myself with a personal foundation that's essential before taking on any task. To some extent I can determine the kind of change it brings in me.
As for Melanoleuca.
You're an exhibitionist. You've let alot show over the years and your readers have come to know your voice, and it's frankly interesting to be in a conversation with you. But since I last read your writing there are alot of cracks showing. And I meant what I said. Shell was a bit strong I admit but you're alot better than your last few posts. I'm pretty sure that you're a leader when you choose to be. So, may I suggest a little less discord and a little more of that old-time Panda religion?
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So I give some real-life perspective about the balance between life and medicine and, because it is not all fun-in-the-sun, good-time, plastic-banana rock-and-roll you will attack the messenger, not the message. I could be the worst person in the world but many marriages and relationships head south during residency and never come back and that's a fact, something you need to plug into your decision maker when you weigh the costs and benefits of a medical career.
And we're being a little bit melodramatic. It's just divorce.
Oh, and I still haven't told you the worst part of residency and your relationship with your spouse.
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That's not much of an opinion.
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Let's just say that in regard to my view of humanity, I have no more illusions. This is not to say that I dislike people or have no interest in them. This job would be impossible if I had no interest in my patients and as for liking them, I love them, even the freaky ones, but I love them in the way that makes me stay an hour after my shift arranging home hospice even though it would be easier and quicker to just admit the mother****er and get the family off my back rather than in the squishy, sentimental way that amateurs feel is necessary but really is worthless and accomplishes nothing.
And you are giving me way too much credit. I'm not that deep. I have sacrificed my financial security, my health, sleep, and my marriage for goat rodeodery. Losing people? I don't lose anybody. They die from pathological processes that are beyond our control. This is not a deep statement either but the obvious truth.
So to recap, you will pay lots of money, assume incredible debt, work hard and long for about five bucks an hour (on average) for the entire period of your medical training, get treated like crap for most of it, and your relationship with your spouse is going to suffer, maybe to the point where it is unfixable. But I am exactly where most of you dream of being, minus the divorce I mean, so hooray for me.
In exchange you will have an interesting, useful, well-respected profession where airline pilots will ask if you want them to land the plane in Des Moines for the passenger with chest pain (which happened to me). You can make very good money at it too if you pick the right specialty and are willing to move and negotiate. But you also have to keep in mind that as a doctor, most of your job is going to be some variation of ridiculous.
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Yeah. It's like that horror story you just can't put down.
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Guess=Cheating?? (ftw, I get a cookie if I'm right!)
Does anyone know if Perri Klass stayed w/ her husband? "Not an entirely benign procedure" cast a pretty positive view on the whole thing.
Suffice to say that a harvard md and her phd in training husband managed to make it through at least med school.
It would be interesting to see some statistics in this thread with references instead of anecdotal evidence and glory stories (from either side of the debate). What is the liklihood of divorce during residency after attenuation for years married with kids? Are rates different than that of a similar reference groups?
Does anyone have anything other than stories and opinions to offer? Otherwise this has been an entertaining thread to follow, but largely a waste of time.
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It's not med school, but my brother did his PhD in engineering at a top five institution during which my sister-in-law did a difficult master's degree. During this period, they had and managed very well my little niece.
Hey friend (Skymastre).
Hey friend (Skymastre).
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No.
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A study done out of John's Hopkins in 97 found the following.
"Over 30 years of follow-up, the divorce rate was 51 percent for psychiatrists, 33 percent for surgeons, 24 percent for internists, 22 percent for pediatricians and pathologists, and 31 percent for other specialties. The overall divorce rate was 29 percent after three decades of follow-up and 32 percent after nearly four decades of follow-up."
Though...
"Researchers cautioned that the study, which looked at marital histories through 1987, did not address quality of marriage and that physicians may be more likely to stay in poor marriages for financial and social reasons. Also, most physicians in the study were white males first married in the 1940s and 1950s when divorce was less socially acceptable, so the risks may vary for contemporary physicians, who include more women and minorities, say researchers. "
Medical specialty and the incidence of divorce.
The risk is real, though. The training takes a toll on you and by extension on those who love you. Ignore it at your own peril.
"Over 30 years of follow-up, the divorce rate was 51 percent for psychiatrists, 33 percent for surgeons, 24 percent for internists, 22 percent for pediatricians and pathologists, and 31 percent for other specialties. The overall divorce rate was 29 percent after three decades of follow-up and 32 percent after nearly four decades of follow-up."
Though...
"Researchers cautioned that the study, which looked at marital histories through 1987, did not address quality of marriage and that physicians may be more likely to stay in poor marriages for financial and social reasons. Also, most physicians in the study were white males first married in the 1940s and 1950s when divorce was less socially acceptable, so the risks may vary for contemporary physicians, who include more women and minorities, say researchers. "
Medical specialty and the incidence of divorce.
The risk is real, though. The training takes a toll on you and by extension on those who love you. Ignore it at your own peril.
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Or in the case of the PBS doctor's diaries the odds were 5/7.
Where 5 out of the 7 people interviewed got divorced.
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Isn't that great news? I guess by that measure, Doctors have bucked the trend of the 50% divorce rate for the general public?
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So some of what you say is intended to be a counter-movement to the pretense-driven, entitled, unobserved life who's pursuing medicine as a lifestyle choice, or the nave, and then you offer a catharsis for those who are also in the trenches. That shines through in some of your writing on the blog, and you caring for your patients in your own, special way also does, but I'm glad you reiterated it. I also suspect that all of us are going to react differently along the same course, it's all good.
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I don't think the blog is intended just for folks who want to pursue medicine as a lifestyle choice or out of overwhelming naivete. Unfortunately, even many folks who knew they were going to have some pain/stress during training might be surprised by how much!
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Panda. Thanks for everything. You insufferable b@stard. With all do respect of course.
I can remember jousting with you over your verbal assaults to my pre-med optimism.
Now. With a child on the way. And much less the fanatic. I can appreciate the full impart of your role here. Especially with regard to non-trads considering this future burden with a family.
Congrats on the job. Hope the other part of your life gets better somehow.
And please keep up your input here when you have time. I mean...I'm not likely to take any advice from anyone period...cause I'm just f'n hardheaded and at 35 that's not likely to change. But the truth in what your saying is nevertheless good to hear. Especially within the walls of this premed cult--sdn.
I can remember jousting with you over your verbal assaults to my pre-med optimism.
Now. With a child on the way. And much less the fanatic. I can appreciate the full impart of your role here. Especially with regard to non-trads considering this future burden with a family.
Congrats on the job. Hope the other part of your life gets better somehow.
And please keep up your input here when you have time. I mean...I'm not likely to take any advice from anyone period...cause I'm just f'n hardheaded and at 35 that's not likely to change. But the truth in what your saying is nevertheless good to hear. Especially within the walls of this premed cult--sdn.
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Panda: so what is the worst part of residency and your relationship with your spouse, if not cheating? The guilt that eats at your innards for putting your family through a hell that you wouldn't have chosen in hindsight?
Anyway, speaking for myself, I don't ignore any of your dire warnings. And it scares me s**tless. But the alternative of not pursuing medicine, for me at least, is a worse hell. So I'm just trying to keep your warnings in mind and come up w/ways to lessen the inevitable sting.
Anyway...I don't think that anyone who says "oh, that won't happen to me" is s**tting rainbows so much as trying to convince themselves that they can do it without sacrificing their family. Here's hoping that we all can, but honestly, it is going to take A LOT of soul-sucking work. Some people who are reading this will do it. Some people's marriages will fail miserably. However, I think Panda's right in pointing out that if you go into this thinking it won't happen to you, you've already stacked the deck against yourself. If, instead, you keep in the front of your mind the very real possibility that you are putting your relationships at risk, you can be that much more dilligent in keeping them strong. Don't think it can't happen to you, is all he's sayin'.
Anyway, speaking for myself, I don't ignore any of your dire warnings. And it scares me s**tless. But the alternative of not pursuing medicine, for me at least, is a worse hell. So I'm just trying to keep your warnings in mind and come up w/ways to lessen the inevitable sting.
Anyway...I don't think that anyone who says "oh, that won't happen to me" is s**tting rainbows so much as trying to convince themselves that they can do it without sacrificing their family. Here's hoping that we all can, but honestly, it is going to take A LOT of soul-sucking work. Some people who are reading this will do it. Some people's marriages will fail miserably. However, I think Panda's right in pointing out that if you go into this thinking it won't happen to you, you've already stacked the deck against yourself. If, instead, you keep in the front of your mind the very real possibility that you are putting your relationships at risk, you can be that much more dilligent in keeping them strong. Don't think it can't happen to you, is all he's sayin'.
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Having said that above here's the thing panda...sorry bro I can't call another grown man panda...that's like a gay little street name or something...so anyway p, some of the resistance you inspire is of caused by the assualt to optimism which is a worthy endeavor for both inciter and incited.
However, another portion of what you say is directed at the younger version of yourself. Younger you we are not. Just to give you a taste of the real me so that you can see I aint you. and I make this point b/c most of these people are like me, more or less, being they aint' you either.
I am working as medical assistant to a lovely pediatrician. Most of my workmates are ladies. I love the gig, but could never do this indefinitely. I've worked 2 jobs to put myself through school, support my wife, and have made significant gains in a crushing spine injury I received while lugging fatties around the hospital. I fought off divorce and personally induced self-destructiveness to arrive at a state of relative contentment.
Now I have a near 4.0 gpa earned while getting a Biology degree that I will never use if I don't go to medical school. I'm 80 G's in debt from school loans. I could never be a scientist. I have no illusions about the difficulty of a medical career. I don't know what it means to be there, but I don't think it will be glorious by any means.
Now. Should I just sit by the fire and hear all your tales of the dangers of mammoth hunting--to use your example--while I take the vital signs of the continuous stream of new people in the world---or should I go out into the wild to see for myself, for better or worse.
The option of not going is not an option. I give you the audience to your tales with interest. But I take the notion that I should not go on the hunt as a direct insult. And for that reason I say F@ck you!
And not b/c I don't like you. Actually, besides the gay street name, you seem like a cool work mate.
However, another portion of what you say is directed at the younger version of yourself. Younger you we are not. Just to give you a taste of the real me so that you can see I aint you. and I make this point b/c most of these people are like me, more or less, being they aint' you either.
I am working as medical assistant to a lovely pediatrician. Most of my workmates are ladies. I love the gig, but could never do this indefinitely. I've worked 2 jobs to put myself through school, support my wife, and have made significant gains in a crushing spine injury I received while lugging fatties around the hospital. I fought off divorce and personally induced self-destructiveness to arrive at a state of relative contentment.
Now I have a near 4.0 gpa earned while getting a Biology degree that I will never use if I don't go to medical school. I'm 80 G's in debt from school loans. I could never be a scientist. I have no illusions about the difficulty of a medical career. I don't know what it means to be there, but I don't think it will be glorious by any means.
Now. Should I just sit by the fire and hear all your tales of the dangers of mammoth hunting--to use your example--while I take the vital signs of the continuous stream of new people in the world---or should I go out into the wild to see for myself, for better or worse.
The option of not going is not an option. I give you the audience to your tales with interest. But I take the notion that I should not go on the hunt as a direct insult. And for that reason I say F@ck you!
And not b/c I don't like you. Actually, besides the gay street name, you seem like a cool work mate.
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Go hunt the mammoth. Your heart is in the right place and you know it can kill you.
Panda Bear was my nickname and radio call-sign when I was a Marine.
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That you spend so much time with your fellow residents that one day, your wife realizes you have more in common with them, spend more time with them, have more fun with them, and have nothing to give when you get home. I'm not saying it's a fact but perception is reality in a relationship.
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I did not put my family through hell. We moved a couple of times, that's all. Money has been tight but I'd hardly call that hell.
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a little planning would make these issues moot...and provigil, did you not use it?
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melanoleuca /pandas post = "you cant do it because in my experience its not doable."
amazing A+ I accept with open arms.
he is far right on the political spectrum so this kind of thinking is typical.
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Dude. When you are at the hospital for thirty hours in a row, awake, and then the next day you come in to do it again (Friday-Sunday call, for example, in a Q4 call schedule) come back and tell me how that planning worked.
80 hours a week is a lot. Seventy hours a week is lot. Sixty is approaching normal. I work about 50 hours a week now which is like a regular job but I'm a PGY-4
Can you work out and eat healthy in residency? Sure you can. Can you maintain your marriage? Sure you can.
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That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on SDN. Right or left, liberal, conservative, or libertarian if there's one thing almost all of my fellow residents agree about is that the goat rodeo will wear you out.
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I read a quote today and thought of this thread:
You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him. ~James D. Miles
THEN I found the ignore button.....sweet relief......Panda don't bother replying I won't see it anyways
You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him. ~James D. Miles
THEN I found the ignore button.....sweet relief......Panda don't bother replying I won't see it anyways
