Medical Student Director

[EMDoc1692]

Hello SDN friends,

Rising PGY-2 in EM program in NYC. I've been very fortunate to be granted medical school director for this year's medical students. My program has a vague "description role" for this role which basically includes giving the medical students on their rotation an orientation, and to create their schedules. I'm very interested in education and would like to pursue education in my future. What have you seen and experienced either in residency or as a medical student that would make your rotation in EM more beneficial and/or educational? I'm thinking about holding weekly simple ER lectures (ie: EKG's, US guided IV's, run-through of basic procedures like CVC's, etc...) and case reviews. Anything else you folk believe would be beneficial?

Thanks!

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[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Hello SDN friends,

Rising PGY-2 in EM program in NYC. I've been very fortunate to be granted medical school director for this year's medical students. My program has a vague "description role" for this role which basically includes giving the medical students on their rotation an orientation, and to create their schedules. I'm very interested in education and would like to pursue education in my future. What have you seen and experienced either in residency or as a medical student that would make your rotation in EM more beneficial and/or educational? I'm thinking about holding weekly simple ER lectures (ie: EKG's, US guided IV's, run-through of basic procedures like CVC's, etc...) and case reviews. Anything else you folk believe would be beneficial?

Thanks!

Those are typical faculty duties. Are they paying you extra? Sad if they are not.

 

[EMDoc1692]

No not paying extra. They aren't asking me to do this, it's something I've been interested and volunteered to do on my own time. My responsibility, as per the "role", is really only to set the student schedule. I want to be more proactive. I didn't really like how many of my rotations were set as a medical student so I wanted to try to change a couple things, at least in my program.

Those are typical faculty duties. Are they paying you extra? Sad if they are not.

 

[TheComebacKid]

They should learn the basics of an EM presentation that is concise with pertinent info. They should know how to develop the appropriate differential that is EM specific addressing life threats. Explain to them they need to commit to a plan, even if it's wrong, COMMIT to something for the love of god and stop hedging. I don't want to talk to them for more than 2 minutes on a patient, leaving an extra few minutes after for teaching points. If they give me a 10 minute presentation I will either A) ignore them B) cut them off or C) not have any time to teach them some real medicine.

Also tell them how to not be annoying. And tell them not to follow me to the bathroom.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

No not paying extra. They aren't asking me to do this, it's something I've been interested and volunteered to do on my own time. My responsibility, as per the "role", is really only to set the student schedule. I want to be more proactive. I didn't really like how many of my rotations were set as a medical student so I wanted to try to change a couple things, at least in my program.

Very admirable of you. I’d just worry it’s too much on top of typical resident duties (and since you are in NYC your other duties that are performed by nurses or techs at most other hospitals).

 

[deleted547339]

No not paying extra. They aren't asking me to do this, it's something I've been interested and volunteered to do on my own time. My responsibility, as per the "role", is really only to set the student schedule. I want to be more proactive. I didn't really like how many of my rotations were set as a medical student so I wanted to try to change a couple things, at least in my program.

Dude. You got hosed, you’re whitewashing their fence. Setting the med student schedule is scut work. Running the med student clerkship is a faculty role that usually comes with compensation in the form of a shift buy down. If you want to give the intro to EM lecture at the beginning of each month, that’s cool, but making their schedules?

I have a great opportunity for you. Want to work my weekend shifts? Will get you great exposure to teaching.

 

[deleted547339]

And tell them not to follow me to the bathroom.

+1. If I ever have to tell you “hey, uh, I’m just going to take a piss..............(awkward pause)......You can shake for me, I guess, but probably best you just go see that next chest pain.” - you’re doing it wrong.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Dude. You got hosed, you’re whitewashing their fence. Setting the med student schedule is scut work. Running the med student clerkship is a faculty role that usually comes with compensation in the form of a shift buy down. If you want to give the intro to EM lecture at the beginning of each month, that’s cool, but making their schedules?

I have a great opportunity for you. Want to work my weekend shifts? Will get you great exposure to teaching.

If a resident wants to go into academics/teaching as a career isn’t this a good opportunity to demonstrate or build that skill set while in residency?

Ive got to imagine when you apply for these faculty roles it’d be beneficial to have some experience on your CV.

 

[alpinism]

Yeah that's literally the faculty medical student director's job description.

It's fine if you want to help with lectures or simulations but I wouldn't be doing anything more unless you're getting some form of compensation.

 

[alpinism]

Very admirable of you. I’d just worry it’s too much on top of typical resident duties (and since you are in NYC your other duties that are performed by nurses or techs at most other hospitals).

He should be getting a shift reduction at the very least for doing all that work for the medical students.

 

[alpinism]

If a resident wants to go into academics/teaching as a career isn’t this a good opportunity to demonstrate or build that skill set while in residency?

Ive got to imagine when you apply for these faculty roles it’d be beneficial to have some experience on your CV.

The problem is they'll still want a teaching fellowship regardless so it really doesn't help to do this during residency.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Yeah that's literally the faculty medical student director's job description.

It's fine if you want to help with lectures or simulations but I wouldn't be doing anything more unless you're getting some form of compensation.

Assistant (to the) Regional Manager

 

[deleted547339]

If a resident wants to go into academics/teaching as a career isn’t this a good opportunity to demonstrate or build that skill set while in residency?

Ive got to imagine when you apply for these faculty roles it’d be beneficial to have some experience on your CV.

No. What your describing isn’t helpful. Do a lab teaching med students how to splint, be a mentor to med students or give lectures. Those are helpful. That’s like asking if getting an ER resident coffee is helpful for getting into residency. Might it make that one person at that one program happy? Yes. Is it if educational value to you? No. And I won’t get into whether or not I think there is value in a 4y program or teaching fellowship, but I don’t think there’s value is this activity.

 

[Apollyon]

Assistant (to the) Regional Manager

"I'm hoping to get promoted to fries in a year or two!"

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

If a resident wants to go into academics/teaching as a career isn’t this a good opportunity to demonstrate or build that skill set while in residency?

Ive got to imagine when you apply for these faculty roles it’d be beneficial to have some experience on your CV.

No an educational fellowship would be way better. This is just an extra curricular activity may as well do out door medical tents.

 

[TheComebacKid]

An education fellowship seems like a colossal waste of time to me. But then again, I think it is soon going to be mandatory for residency/medical student leadership positions in the future.

I also went to a 4 year program, what the hell do I know.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

No. What your describing isn’t helpful. Do a lab teaching med students how to splint, be a mentor to med students or give lectures. Those are helpful. That’s like asking if getting an ER resident coffee is helpful for getting into residency. Might it make that one person at that one program happy? Yes. Is it if educational value to you? No. And I won’t get into whether or not I think there is value in a 4y program or teaching fellowship, but I don’t think there’s value is this activity.

really good info in everyone’s responses. Thanks!

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

Just want to echo much of the sentiment here.

You are being conned by your program and your college+medical school inertia has you believing that these "extracurriculars" matter in any appreciable way. You will waste valuable time during a critical year of training where you gain much of your independence and clinical acumen. This is highly unlikely to change your career trajectory, though with an important caveat:

- and here's where my advice will possibly differ from the group -

If your goal is to be chief resident of your program (as a CV feather to up your stock come Med Ed fellowship application time) it may be internally worthwhile. As mentioned above, this may impress "that one person" (your PD) and put you in a higher tier for when it comes time to choose chief residents. If the goal is a name-brand education fellowship, and you're okay with the unpaid extra work because you "love it" and are "passionate" about it (quotes because I hear those words thrown around often for BS like this) then maybe it's not a bad idea.

Understand that education fellowships are not hard to get, so if you're open to most fellowships, then this medical student "director" role is utterly useless! HTH!

 

[Buckeye1992]

If it makes you feel any better AAMC released an official recommendation saying they don’t think anyone should be doing aways or in person interviews this year so maybe you lucked out.

 

[turkeyjerky]

I think most of you guys are being a little too negative about this position. I held a similar position in my 2nd year. It was an extra hour a week or something like that, helping out in procedure labs and teaching rounds once a week.

I don't really get this overly transactional attitude about everything. Would it be nice to get a stipend or a shift buyback for it? Yeah--of course. But some people have an interest in teaching.

 

[Hamhock]

I think most of you guys are being a little too negative about this position. I held a similar position in my 2nd year. It was an extra hour a week or something like that, helping out in procedure labs and teaching rounds once a week.

I don't really get this overly transactional attitude about everything. Would it be nice to get a stipend or a shift buyback for it? Yeah--of course. But some people have an interest in teaching.

I agree with turkey.

Making a name for yourself as a resident goes a long way to getting an academic job. The "payback" will be a recommendation from your PD for the academic job that isn't open to most residents.

We have done scut work to keep progressing in our careers. Why is residency any different?

HH

 

[deleted547339]

I think most of you guys are being a little too negative about this position. I held a similar position in my 2nd year. It was an extra hour a week or something like that, helping out in procedure labs and teaching rounds once a week.

I don't really get this overly transactional attitude about everything. Would it be nice to get a stipend or a shift buyback for it? Yeah--of course. But some people have an interest in teaching.

Yea, but doing procedure labs and teaching rounds is very different from just making the schedule.

And the reason everyone here has a transactional view of our jobs is because a lot of the people on these board have come to the realization that our job is transactional. Your hospital doesn’t care about you - they want someone who will take liability, see a ton or patients and not get complaints. They would happily replace the 30y vet with a green attending if it saved them $$$. Don’t get me wrong - I love my job and my coworkers, but I don’t think for one second that the ceo and cmo would lose a minute of sleep if they had to cut my job.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Yea, but doing procedure labs and teaching rounds is very different from just making the schedule.

And the reason everyone here has a transactional view of our jobs is because a lot of the people on these board have come to the realization that our job is transactional. Your hospital doesn’t care about you - they want someone who will take liability, see a ton or patients and not get complaints. They would happily replace the 30y vet with a green attending if it saved them $$$. Don’t get me wrong - I love my job and my coworkers, but I don’t think for one second that the ceo and cmo would lose a minute of sleep if they had to cut my job.

Very true. Yeah, I didn't do their schedule either, I think program coordinator did that.