Different kind of medical director

[deleted109597]

I love Linkedin. Random job emails that are tangentially or not even close to related to what I do.
However, I got one recently that was interesting.
Large UC corporation looking for a medical director. It appears to be a working position, and there are other NP/PA/docs.
In reality it will be a steroid/zpack mill clearly.
Anyone have any insight into their pay? I'm over being a white light to medicine and ready to make money and stop fighting.

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[Franzd'Epinay]

I love Linkedin. Random job emails that are tangentially or not even close to related to what I do.

I get one of two emails: an unrelated job in my location, or an appropriate job in the other side of the country. The other day I got an email about joining an Ob/Gyn practice. Not as annoying as getting emails for midlevel positions, though.

 

[Janders]

I get a lot of emails for nursing director/manager/VP positions. And for HOT HOT HOT per diem gigs for... low prices... in my region.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

I love Linkedin. Random job emails that are tangentially or not even close to related to what I do.
However, I got one recently that was interesting.
Large UC corporation looking for a medical director. It appears to be a working position, and there are other NP/PA/docs.
In reality it will be a steroid/zpack mill clearly.
Anyone have any insight into their pay? I'm over being a white light to medicine and ready to make money and stop fighting.

I can’t answer your real question without knowing the region. With that said, I can’t imagine it’s worth it. If it is the Zpak mill you describe you either work a ton and admin a little in that ****ty, bad medicine environment, or, you work some and admin a lot in a ****ty, bad medicine environment. I truly don’t know which is worse.
Most EM gigs allow enough autonomy that you can feel at least ok about the medicine you practice. Some are horrible, no question, but that’s identifiable early on.

 

[Groove]

I don't even use LinkedIn. I went to sign up and they want me to scan my license? Noway. Did you guys scan in your passport and drivers license? That makes me paranoid. What if they got hacked by some Russian hooligans.

 

[deleted109597]

No, I didn't scan anything in. And they haven't asked me to do it now

 

[Tenk]

I don't even use LinkedIn. I went to sign up and they want me to scan my license? Noway. Did you guys scan in your passport and drivers license? That makes me paranoid. What if they got hacked by some Russian hooligans.

Then they would write scripts for Soviet Percocet!

 

[RustedFox]

Then they would write scripts for Soviet Percocet!

In Soviet Russia... PERCOCET writes for YOU !

 

[Groove]

Damn Russian hackers!

 

[Tenk]

In Soviet Russia... PERCOCET writes for YOU !

I’m kind of ok with that I think.

 

[DrGasPasser]

I love Linkedin. Random job emails that are tangentially or not even close to related to what I do.
However, I got one recently that was interesting.
Large UC corporation looking for a medical director. It appears to be a working position, and there are other NP/PA/docs.
In reality it will be a steroid/zpack mill clearly.
Anyone have any insight into their pay? I'm over being a white light to medicine and ready to make money and stop fighting.

The pay is highly variable but $200K is a pretty common starting point.

However, how sure are you that money is the problem? That’s a rhetorical question and I completely understand your not wanting to air laundry on the internet.

 

[deleted109597]

The pay is highly variable but $200K is a pretty common starting point.

However, how sure are you that money is the problem? That’s a rhetorical question and I completely understand your not wanting to air laundry on the internet.

Pretty sure.
Insurance companies trying their best to destroy emergency pay. CMGs doing the same to emergency docs. Cash pay only works in cosmetics at this point. It would be nice to work daytime hours and be off weekends and holidays.

 

[DrGasPasser]

Pretty sure.
Insurance companies trying their best to destroy emergency pay. CMGs doing the same to emergency docs. Cash pay only works in cosmetics at this point. It would be nice to work daytime hours and be off weekends and holidays.

I hear ya. I’m just not sure that UC gigs offer much more money up front compared to EM. I suppose there is always the potential for more money if you work your way up the ladder.

I’m curious to hear more if you interview just to be able to advise EM residents on the spectrum of opportunities.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I hear ya. I’m just not sure that UC gigs offer much more money up front compared to EM. I suppose there is always the potential for more money if you work your way up the ladder.

I’m curious to hear more if you interview just to be able to advise EM residents on the spectrum of opportunities.

They definitely offer less money. But they also close at night, on Christmas, and if a critically ill patient shows up you call the ambulance.

Is that worth the probably $75-100/hr pay difference? That's up to the individual.

At the 2 UCs I've worked at, the medical director usually got paid for 1-2 shifts a month that were purely administrative. So around a few thousand a month beyond what you're paid to work clinically. Not sure if that's universal or not.

 

[Hercules]

As someone with a foot in both UC and EM, I have always seen the two pay rates as related. I don’t think the large CMGs can really drop EM rates down to UC rates or they’ll lose their entire workforce. No one will be willing to pull nights/holidays and the other undesirable aspects of our profession if they can get the same pay for working all day/evening shifts while seeing simple and for the most part appreciative patients. There just wouldn’t be any incentive. In my market there’s about a $150-200 gap between the two so it makes it worth it (plus it’s just not as much fun to do UC if you’re EM trained).

 

[DrGasPasser]

That is about what I thought, which is why I wanted to clarify that money was the goal. It sounds like the OP also places a premium on lifestyle and that certainly legit.

 

[deleted109597]

I mean, currently I can make $X working overnights and seeing between 25-35 pts in a high risk "might be dying" scenario. Admitted 8 over my last two shifts (lower acuity peds shifts).
If I can make 75% of $X then I would do it in a heartbeat. Just wasn't sure if anyone else ever held one of these positions.

 

[bravotwozero]

I mean, currently I can make $X working overnights and seeing between 25-35 pts in a high risk "might be dying" scenario. Admitted 8 over my last two shifts (lower acuity peds shifts).
If I can make 75% of $X then I would do it in a heartbeat. Just wasn't sure if anyone else ever held one of these positions.

Are you close to hitting your retirement "number"? If not, are you confident you will with a 25% pay cut?

 

[deleted109597]

Are you close to hitting your retirement "number"? If not, are you confident you will with a 25% pay cut?

Married to another doctor. We will be ok. It basically comes down to whether or not I'm comfortable giving up taking care of emergencies. Basically they pay ~$275K for full time 8-5 M-F. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. But because I would be full time, I would not be able to moonlight much on weekends.
I'm more worried I would get bored with workman's comp exams after about a week.

 

[Groove]

Married to another doctor. We will be ok. It basically comes down to whether or not I'm comfortable giving up taking care of emergencies. Basically they pay ~$275K for full time 8-5 M-F. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. But because I would be full time, I would not be able to moonlight much on weekends.
I'm more worried I would get bored with workman's comp exams after about a week.

Have you thought about just cutting down the number of ED shifts? Obviously, that doesn't do much for holiday/weekend/nights but 6 or 8 shifts a month seems very sustainable, regardless of hours. I'm like you...there's elements of UC that seem nice but damn....I'd get bored out of my mind. Plus, even though it's less stress...I'm not sure you'd be working that much slower. Some UC sites are just as busy as PCP offices.

Also..that's a pretty sig pay cut for a job that has you working more hours. ~180 a month or so.

 

[OccupyTheED]

Have you thought about just cutting down the number of ED shifts? Obviously, that doesn't do much for holiday/weekend/nights but 6 or 8 shifts a month seems very sustainable, regardless of hours. I'm like you...there's elements of UC that seem nice but damn....I'd get bored out of my mind. Plus, even though it's less stress...I'm not sure you'd be working that much slower. Some UC sites are just as busy as PCP offices.

Also..that's a pretty sig pay cut for a job that has you working more hours. ~180 a month or so.

The hours are greater in number but they're far less stressful. I work roughly 100 ED hours in an average month, its infinitely more stressful and difficult than the 120 telehealth hours that I pull on average.

 

[Hercules]

Have you thought about just cutting down the number of ED shifts? Obviously, that doesn't do much for holiday/weekend/nights but 6 or 8 shifts a month seems very sustainable, regardless of hours. I'm like you...there's elements of UC that seem nice but damn....I'd get bored out of my mind. Plus, even though it's less stress...I'm not sure you'd be working that much slower. Some UC sites are just as busy as PCP offices.

Also..that's a pretty sig pay cut for a job that has you working more hours. ~180 a month or so.

The patients are low acuity but you’ll more than likely see a lot higher volume. I saw 70 in a 10 hr shift at our UC yesterday. If the system is set up well though, it should be pretty low friction.

 

[DrGasPasser]

Married to another doctor. We will be ok. It basically comes down to whether or not I'm comfortable giving up taking care of emergencies. Basically they pay ~$275K for full time 8-5 M-F. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. But because I would be full time, I would not be able to moonlight much on weekends.
I'm more worried I would get bored with workman's comp exams after about a week.

Therein lies the problem. While I don’t worship at the Alter of Weingart, I definitely think that he hit the nail on the head in his analysis that very few EPs dichotomize “sick” vs. “not sick at all” in our daily practices as well as across a career (see podcast on EM as a failed paradigm). That is to say, most EPs can handle a job seeing only sick patients (assuming adequate resources), many can handle UC jobs, but the longevity of seeing MIs and multisystem trauma among a sea of dental pain is pretty bleak. The only people that seem to do it with a high degree of satisfaction are the true believer humanitarians who enjoy solving routine problems in low functioning people after hours and on holidays.

So, it sounds like you might want dip your foot in the UC scene part-time before leaving a faculty gig. If it makes you want to self-immolate, there are other paths to happiness taking care of only sick patients.

 

[Groove]

I don't even use LinkedIn. I went to sign up and they want me to scan my license? Noway. Did you guys scan in your passport and drivers license? That makes me paranoid. What if they got hacked by some Russian hooligans.

Watch out for your LinkedIn accounts. I was apparently hacked by some India hackers who had taken over my account which is why I was being asked to scan my license. It was completely locked and I finally got them to release it this morning and am updating everything again. Damn hackers!

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Married to another doctor. We will be ok. It basically comes down to whether or not I'm comfortable giving up taking care of emergencies. Basically they pay ~$275K for full time 8-5 M-F. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. But because I would be full time, I would not be able to moonlight much on weekends.
I'm more worried I would get bored with workman's comp exams after about a week.

Why not try it first? Rearrange your schedule to get 2-3 weeks off from the ED, then go work per diem at one of these places for a full week or two.