Med school prestige, MD vs DO, specialty arguments are completely toxic

[MedicineZ0Z]

Still boggles my mind that we argue over prestige of med schools, have arguments where X specialty craps on the ED or radiology or whatever. Or still have MD vs DO debates. Then we turn around and create these "fellowships" for midlevels to "specialize" in Y field and then let them practice essentially autonomously. Even worse is having to do multiple fellowships as a physician and having these crazy standards for ourselves, but again letting a midlevel walk right in and do the same job.

It's not even the midlevels who are to blame. It's literally doctors for the most part. They train the midlevels and lead the programs. And they engage in the toxic parts of medicine. It gets even more silly when you have big name institutions that want an MD-PhD from a top school with 2 fellowships then have a PA do the same job in the same ward.

Anyway, only posting this thread cause I still see these silly topics come up frequently.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted889094]

Mid-levels have very active representation that push for things politically. If you feel strongly about this maybe you should PFPP and do something about it.

 

[efle]

SDN has a lot of worthwhile discussions about school choice and specialty choice.

Midlevel bashing is much more toxic, imo. Especially on reddit.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

SDN has a lot of worthwhile discussions about school choice and specialty choice.

Midlevel bashing is much more toxic, imo. Especially on reddit.

Specialty choice and bashing other specialties are two different things. And I just think it's comical that "prestige" is even a thing when these so called prestigious institutions hire an NP to do the work that someone with 15 years of education & training is also hired to do.

Mid-levels have very active representation that push for things politically. If you feel strongly about this maybe you should PFPP and do something about it.

The majority of the time - it's the doctors who facilitate midlevels. They train them and they lead most of these midlevels "fellowships." They also supervise them and sign their notes among other things.

 

[frenchyn]

Specialty choice and bashing other specialties are two different things. And I just think it's comical that "prestige" is even a thing when these so called prestigious institutions hire an NP to do the work that someone with 15 years of education & training is also hired

Just want to point out: prestigious does not mean they don’t want money lmao. You think just because they are John hopskin they don’t want to make more money? Mid level is known to save hospital money. It is a naive thinking just because they are prestigious they don’t want to save money...plus most patients don’t know...

 

[allantois]

Yawn.

 

[raiderette]

I don't see a lot of specialty bashing, especially when you actually get into medical school. MS1, everyone you meet is Ortho and derm. By the time 4th year comes, the rose-colored glasses have come off and people are learning to live their intended specialty.
I do think it is important to have a place to vent about midlevels, and this is a safe space. I am going into a profession where I guarantee I will work with midlevels, but I know that Certified Nurse Midwives who work in the states with physicians are invaluable. I was tempted to go that route myself, but I wanted to be a doctor. Midlevels who don't aspire to independent practice are not the enemy.

 

[zero0]

Not sure who pissed in your corn flakes, but try not to confuse specialty bashing with pointing out factual statements like EM is being overrun by CMGs or PMR salary is trending down. We're trying to keep potential applicants informed. I'd rather know how screwed a specialty is now than on the back end when I'm trying to find a job.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Specialty choice and bashing other specialties are two different things. And I just think it's comical that "prestige" is even a thing when these so called prestigious institutions hire an NP to do the work that someone with 15 years of education & training is also hired to do.

The majority of the time - it's the doctors who facilitate midlevels. They train them and they lead most of these midlevels "fellowships." They also supervise them and sign their notes among other things.

Hospitals admins are into whatever that gets them money... If its the doctors that train midlevels- they are not doing it by choice. its because they have been told to do so. I hope you guys get the disconnect here between what you guys are thinking. Doctors are not the boss of themselves like it used to be back in the days, its the people that pay them. Corporations do not care where the money is coming from, all it wants is money and profits to double, quadruple.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Hospitals admins are into whatever that gets them money... If its the doctors that train midlevels- they are not doing it by choice. its because they have been told to do so. I hope you guys get the disconnect here between what you guys are thinking. Doctors are not the boss of themselves like it used to be back in the days, its the people that pay them. Corporations do not care where the money is coming from, all it wants is money and profits to double, quadruple.

Dude I literally see attendings going out of their way to teach midlevels. It's not just one or two places or an occasional thing. There are plenty of doctors who will defend and train midlevels cause they just want to.

 

[deleted889094]

The majority of the time - it's the doctors who facilitate midlevels. They train them and they lead most of these midlevels "fellowships." They also supervise them and sign their notes among other things.

What I said was you should do something about it if you feel this strongly about it. Look into Physicians for Patient Protection.

Don't assume I'm disagreeing with you.

 

[libertyyne]

Dude I literally see attendings going out of their way to teach midlevels. It's not just one or two places or an occasional thing. There are plenty of doctors who will defend and train midlevels cause they just want to.

Private practice doctors will train midlevels so they can increase their billings and income at the end of the day.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Private practice doctors will train midlevels so they can increase their billings and income at the end of the day.

I'm talking about academic centers.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm talking about academic centers.

That's been what I've seen.

I don't know a single non-academic physician who trains midlevels.

 

[libertyyne]

That's been what I've seen.

I don't know a single non-academic physician who trains midlevels.

The surgeons in the community hospital i worked at trained their mid-levels to take their call, round on patients for them and do follow-ups. This was really the only place where it seemed like the physicians had a vested interest in training the midlevels for decreasing workload or call related headaches.

 

[calivianya]

It always makes me laugh a bit seeing the MD/DO threads, tbh.

I didn’t know any premeds when I was premed and paid no attention to this stuff, so I literally had no idea this whole MD/DO drama was a thing. I worked with a ton of DOs and MDs across a bunch of different specialties - DO and MD surgeons, DO and MD ER docs, radiologists, pulm/crit guys, cardiologists... SDN makes it seem like DO vs. MD is this huge thing but working in a large tertiary referral center fully staffed with both, I never saw it. I couldn’t tell the difference between any of them and honestly, the brightest doc I had ever met in my life is a DO.

He’s why I picked the DO school I’m at now - I told them at the interview that the smartest doc I ever met went there, and I would be thrilled if they could help me become half the doc that he is.

My hospital also used a ton of midlevels. Until there are more physicians in every part of the country midlevels are not intrinsically a bad thing - if you have three docs working day shift for pulm/crit, and 60 patients admitted to the pulm service... do you really want to have to manage 20 patients each without help? Yeah, I didn’t think so. The docs I worked with really liked only having to manage 8 patients and going home for an hour for lunch.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

It always makes me laugh a bit seeing the MD/DO threads, tbh.

I didn’t know any premeds when I was premed and paid no attention to this stuff, so I literally had no idea this whole MD/DO drama was a thing. I worked with a ton of DOs and MDs across a bunch of different specialties - DO and MD surgeons, DO and MD ER docs, radiologists, pulm/crit guys, cardiologists... SDN makes it seem like DO vs. MD is this huge thing but working in a large tertiary referral center fully staffed with both, I never saw it. I couldn’t tell the difference between any of them and honestly, the brightest doc I had ever met in my life is a DO.

He’s why I picked the DO school I’m at now - I told them at the interview that the smartest doc I ever met went there, and I would be thrilled if they could help me become half the doc that he is.

My hospital also used a ton of midlevels. Until there are more physicians in every part of the country midlevels are not intrinsically a bad thing - if you have three docs working day shift for pulm/crit, and 60 patients admitted to the pulm service... do you really want to have to manage 20 patients each without help? Yeah, I didn’t think so. The docs I worked with really liked only having to manage 8 patients and going home for an hour for lunch.

You would have some difficulty getting a physician job (with the exception of primary care, kinda) in a desirable area at the moment. What does that tell you exactly? Think about it.

 

[Lawpy]

It always makes me laugh a bit seeing the MD/DO threads, tbh.

I didn’t know any premeds when I was premed and paid no attention to this stuff, so I literally had no idea this whole MD/DO drama was a thing. I worked with a ton of DOs and MDs across a bunch of different specialties - DO and MD surgeons, DO and MD ER docs, radiologists, pulm/crit guys, cardiologists... SDN makes it seem like DO vs. MD is this huge thing but working in a large tertiary referral center fully staffed with both, I never saw it. I couldn’t tell the difference between any of them and honestly, the brightest doc I had ever met in my life is a DO.

He’s why I picked the DO school I’m at now - I told them at the interview that the smartest doc I ever met went there, and I would be thrilled if they could help me become half the doc that he is.

My hospital also used a ton of midlevels. Until there are more physicians in every part of the country midlevels are not intrinsically a bad thing - if you have three docs working day shift for pulm/crit, and 60 patients admitted to the pulm service... do you really want to have to manage 20 patients each without help? Yeah, I didn’t think so. The docs I worked with really liked only having to manage 8 patients and going home for an hour for lunch.

MD vs DO has merit when it comes to slamming COCA and NBOME for shafting students and being malignant.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The surgeons in the community hospital i worked at trained their mid-levels to take their call, round on patients for them and do follow-ups. This was really the only place where it seemed like the physicians had a vested interest in training the midlevels for decreasing workload or call related headaches.

I must have misunderstood. I thought it was about training people to become med levels, not training the mid-levels you have already employed.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Specialty bashing is a part of life. I am in pediatrics and not a day goes by that me and my colleagues talk about those *****s taking care of adults. Or calling in the cavemen to bash on some bones. Or even within pediatrics. Here is an admission, no I didn’t ask those questions or start those medications. That is a great job for you, the inpatient team, as that’s not my job.

it’s a part of medicine and is largely done in fun. I appreciate those taking care of adults so I don’t have to. I recognize the volume, knowledge base, and skill of orthopedics. I praise my hospitalists. But I am probably going to bash on everyone day to day in fun because “my specialty is the only one requiring true brain power.” And I say that knowing full well what other specialties say about me.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Dude I literally see attendings going out of their way to teach midlevels. It's not just one or two places or an occasional thing. There are plenty of doctors who will defend and train midlevels cause they just want to.

Maybe, some do have the heart to teach... especially in academic centers. Likely because they dont want these less trained individuals to hurt their patients due to their lack of their knowledge... but really who am i to say that people taking care of other live people should be trained as a doctor- not a nurse. Go to a dang medical school if you wanna act like a doctor- life is not a F'n TV show where they have good looking people wearing white coats running around like madmen.

 

[deleted688779]

Maybe I’m not understanding something but what’s the issue with talking about prestige? Imo it surely plays a role in climbing the ladder.

Just curious.

 

[calivianya]

You would have some difficulty getting a physician job (with the exception of primary care, kinda) in a desirable area at the moment. What does that tell you exactly? Think about it.

It tells me that a lot of people live in desirable areas. That problem is not unique to medicine - it’s harder to get jobs in desirable areas period because people want to live there and people need money to live. When I was still active on nursing forums I was regularly seeing that new graduate nurses from California could take up to a year to find a job in California, and often had to settle for something undesirable if they wanted to stay. Where I lived was offering $25,000 sign on bonuses and we were still understaffed. I’m also sure it’s more difficult to open a pizza restaurant on the same block that already has three pizza restaurants than somewhere that has no pizza restaurants at all, so you don’t have to fight for the same customers.

Ok so they should hire more PCCM docs. They should create 3 more job openings for physicians instead of 10 midlevels. Do you not realize this scenario is costing physicians jobs?

They were actively hiring when I left, and had been actively recruiting for over a year. I don’t see it costing jobs when the jobs are available and going unfilled, no. When we run out of jobs, I will agree that it’s costing physician jobs to hire midlevels.

 

[efle]

Maybe I’m not understanding something but what’s the issue with talking about prestige? Imo it surely plays a role in climbing the ladder.

Just curious.

I think the logic is something like this:

"Doctors need to stop disrespecting other doctors (for where or what they trained in) and start channeling all their disrespect towards midlevels. Oh, except doctors that train midlevels, they've joined with the enemy."

 

[Lawpy]

I think the logic is something like this:

"Doctors need to stop disrespecting other doctors and start channeling all their disrespect towards midlevels. Oh, except doctors that train midlevels, they've joined with the enemy."

Doctors should just stop throwing colleagues and trainees under the bus by training and hiring cheap replacements.

 

[calivianya]

Well as you quoted elsewhere in your post, we're running out of jobs in desirable areas. One of the stated reasons for midlevels existing is to work in underserved, undesirable areas. These people aren't going there, they are heading straight to desirable areas and costing physician jobs there. They need to be put in their place.

This mindset is just incredibly foreign to me.

I see a lot of “but I can’t live in XYZ location and that’s terrible” here and I wonder where anyone got the idea that they’re entitled to a job in a certain region just because they went to med school. In every other industry, you go where the jobs are. Medicine might also be a “calling” or whatever BS we’re going on about but it’s a job first, just like any other job. You get job training and you go where the jobs are.

I have worked in rural hospitals as well as urban ones, and the rural hospitals had midlevels too. It’s not like they’re only congregating in big cities.

 

[7331poas]

It always makes me laugh a bit seeing the MD/DO threads, tbh.

I didn’t know any premeds when I was premed and paid no attention to this stuff, so I literally had no idea this whole MD/DO drama was a thing. I worked with a ton of DOs and MDs across a bunch of different specialties - DO and MD surgeons, DO and MD ER docs, radiologists, pulm/crit guys, cardiologists... SDN makes it seem like DO vs. MD is this huge thing but working in a large tertiary referral center fully staffed with both, I never saw it. I couldn’t tell the difference between any of them and honestly, the brightest doc I had ever met in my life is a DO.

He’s why I picked the DO school I’m at now - I told them at the interview that the smartest doc I ever met went there, and I would be thrilled if they could help me become half the doc that he is.

My hospital also used a ton of midlevels. Until there are more physicians in every part of the country midlevels are not intrinsically a bad thing - if you have three docs working day shift for pulm/crit, and 60 patients admitted to the pulm service... do you really want to have to manage 20 patients each without help? Yeah, I didn’t think so. The docs I worked with really liked only having to manage 8 patients and going home for an hour for lunch.

I have never seen a comment on this forum asserting that DOs are lesser doctors. The comments are usually about DO schools specifically and the fact that it is harder to match competitive specialties or competitive programs with a DO degree.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

I'm on a rotation where my attending introduced his PA as "doctor" and explained that she'll be doing most of the precepting. She introduces herself as a "doctor on the (service) team" to the patients right in front of the attending.

I brought up how inappropriate this was and actually is illegal in my state to mislead patients by calling yourself doctor as a non-physician and he filed a "professionalism" complaint against me to my school.

So this profession is f***ed and I can't wait to gain financial independence a go full time real estate investing cuz damn this life is a nightmare.

 

[calivianya]

I'm on a rotation where my attending introduced his PA as "doctor" and explained that she'll be doing most of the precepting. She introduces herself as a "doctor on the (service) team" to the patients right in front of the attending.

I brought up how inappropriate this was and actually is illegal in my state to mislead patients by calling yourself doctor as a non-physician and he filed a "professionalism" complaint against me to my school.

So this profession is f***ed and I can't wait to gain financial independence a go full time real estate investing cuz damn this life is a nightmare.

Do you know for sure the PA had nothing above a master’s degree? They have PA doctorates now, and if you leveled that complaint against one that has the right to call herself “doctor” because she has a doctorate of some sort, that’s some major hot water to step in.

Doctor is not a protected title for physicians because there are lots of other kinds of doctors. I have some NP friends who are also doctors - they have doctor of nursing practice (DNP) degrees. Use of the term “physician” would be illegal but calling themselves doctors is not. I agree that this is completely misleading to lay people but it’s a perfectly legal term to use.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Do you know for sure the PA had nothing above a master’s degree? They have PA doctorates now, and if you leveled that complaint against one that has the right to call herself “doctor” because she has a doctorate of some sort, that’s some major hot water to step in.

Doctor is not a protected title for physicians because there are lots of other kinds of doctors. I have some NP friends who are also doctors - they have doctor of nursing practice (DNP) degrees. Use of the term “physician” would be illegal but calling themselves doctors is not. I agree that this is completely misleading to lay people but it’s a perfectly legal term to use.

In some states the term doctor is protected for physicians when in a clinical setting. Many hospitals have the same policy. So in one of those states, it wouldn’t matter if she had a doctorate. If she wasn’t an MD/DO/DPM/DDS, then she isn’t allowed to introduce herself as doctor.

It is misleading, but it is also illegal and against policy in places.

 

[calivianya]

In some states the term doctor is protected for physicians when in a clinical setting. Many hospitals have the same policy. So in one of those states, it wouldn’t matter if she had a doctorate. If she wasn’t an MD/DO/DPM/DDS, then she isn’t allowed to introduce herself as doctor.

It is misleading, but it is also illegal and against policy in places.

That’s good to know. It really should be illegal at the national level.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That’s good to know. It really should be illegal at the national level.

I agree. Back when I was an OR tech, I worked with a same day surgery RN who had a DNP and would introduce herself as Dr. to all the patients and would tell them when she disagreed with their surgeon.

To be clear, she was an NP not a doctor. And she was working as an RN, not a mid level.

 

[calivianya]

I agree. Back when I was an OR tech, I worked with a same day surgery RN who had a DNP and would introduce herself as Dr. to all the patients and would tell them when she disagreed with their surgeon.

To be clear, she was an NP not a doctor. And she was working as an RN, not a mid level.

That’s ridiculous. We had one DNP who always introduced herself with her title, but she always said something like - “Hello, I’m Dr. XYZ, a nurse practitioner working with Dr. ABC, blah blah blah“ and I had no intrinsic problem with that. She spent a lot of time explaining to patients that there are doctoral degrees in nursing. It was a little pompous, but that was just her personality.

 

[MLNS]

Do you know for sure the PA had nothing above a master’s degree? They have PA doctorates now, and if you leveled that complaint against one that has the right to call herself “doctor” because she has a doctorate of some sort, that’s some major hot water to step in.

Doctor is not a protected title for physicians because there are lots of other kinds of doctors. I have some NP friends who are also doctors - they have doctor of nursing practice (DNP) degrees. Use of the term “physician” would be illegal but calling themselves doctors is not. I agree that this is completely misleading to lay people but it’s a perfectly legal term to use.

Let’s not be obtuse. In a clinical setting the term doctor = physician

and when other people use it they 100% are attempting to portray themselves as a physician

 

[Neopolymath]

That’s ridiculous. We had one DNP who always introduced herself with her title, but she always said something like - “Hello, I’m Dr. XYZ, a nurse practitioner working with Dr. ABC, blah blah blah“ and I had no intrinsic problem with that. She spent a lot of time explaining to patients that there are doctoral degrees in nursing. It was a little pompous, but that was just her personality.

This is nursing propaganda BS and should not be tolerated by anyone.

It's a shame good nurses let all these *****s tarnish their once great profession. Sad and pathetic.

 

[calivianya]

Let’s not be obtuse. In a clinical setting the term doctor = physician

and when other people use it they 100% are attempting to portray themselves as a physician

I don’t disagree on their intentions. But, it was perfectly legal for them to do that the last state I worked in at the time it was happening, as far as I’m aware, and it’s always a risk calling someone out on a legal practice even if it is ethically murky.

This is nursing propaganda BS and should not be tolerated by anyone.

It's a shame good nurses let all these *****s tarnish their once great profession. Sad and pathetic.

Couldn’t agree more, tbh. It just causes more confusion and drama.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

Do you know for sure the PA had nothing above a master’s degree? They have PA doctorates now, and if you leveled that complaint against one that has the right to call herself “doctor” because she has a doctorate of some sort, that’s some major hot water to step in.

Doctor is not a protected title for physicians because there are lots of other kinds of doctors. I have some NP friends who are also doctors - they have doctor of nursing practice (DNP) degrees. Use of the term “physician” would be illegal but calling themselves doctors is not. I agree that this is completely misleading to lay people but it’s a perfectly legal term to use.

Yes she has a doctorate in being an assistant but nonetheless, is illegal for herself to use the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting in my state.

I actually reported her to the board of medicine since that's who they're licensed by and they've now opened a review. I have a subpoena type thing to testify before them in a few weeks.

My point was how enabling my attending has been of this behavior. He even tried to levy professional action against me for standing up for physicians. It's sickening but I'm afraid it's probably not too abnormal for these older generation docs who are looking out for their bottom lines only.

Edit: it's actually a felony in my state so this lady may serve jail time. I don't feel bad though, her behavior is egregious and illegal and she ought to pay a price.

 

[slowthai]

Yes, I'll just create a Doctor of Crap™ degree so that people can call me Doctor in the hospital. I clearly deserve to be called Doctor, as that is my title and I earned it, through many hours of sitting on the toilet.

 

[zero0]

Yes she has a doctorate in being an assistant but nonetheless, is illegal for herself to use the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting in my state.

I actually reported her to the board of medicine since that's who they're licensed by and they've now opened a review. I have a subpoena type thing to testify before them in a few weeks.

My point was how enabling my attending has been of this behavior. He even tried to levy professional action against me for standing up for physicians. It's sickening but I'm afraid it's probably not too abnormal for these older generation docs who are looking out for their bottom lines only.

Edit: it's actually a felony in my state so this lady may serve jail time. I don't feel bad though, her behavior is egregious and illegal and she ought to pay a price.

That would actually be hilarious. Do keep us posted.

 

[Splenda88]

Yes she has a doctorate in being an assistant but nonetheless, is illegal for herself to use the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting in my state.

I actually reported her to the board of medicine since that's who they're licensed by and they've now opened a review. I have a subpoena type thing to testify before them in a few weeks.

My point was how enabling my attending has been of this behavior. He even tried to levy professional action against me for standing up for physicians. It's sickening but I'm afraid it's probably not too abnormal for these older generation docs who are looking out for their bottom lines only.

Edit: it's actually a felony in my state so this lady may serve jail time. I don't feel bad though, her behavior is egregious and illegal and she ought to pay a price.

You have taken that too far... Not a big fan of midlevels (especially NP), but to put someone in so much trouble because of something innocuous like that is over the top.

 

[zero0]

You have taken that too far... Not a big fan of midlevels (especially NP), but to put someone in so much trouble because of something innocuous like that is over the top.

Come on man they're doing the right thing and taking a huge risk to do it. Show some support

 

[Splenda88]

Why are nurses so adamant about introducing themselves as 'Dr So and So' in healthcare setting? I don't introduce myself as Dr Splenda88 outside of the hospital because my title serves no purpose outside of that setting... I do it in healthcare settings because I want patients to know my role in an increasingly complex medical system

Everyone understands that once you introduce yourself as Dr in healthcare settings, people assume you are a physician or dentist or podiatrist. Why do nurses insist in doing that? Is it because of insecurity? I don't see pharmacist, PT, OT try to do that

 

[7331poas]

Yes she has a doctorate in being an assistant but nonetheless, is illegal for herself to use the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting in my state.

I actually reported her to the board of medicine since that's who they're licensed by and they've now opened a review. I have a subpoena type thing to testify before them in a few weeks.

My point was how enabling my attending has been of this behavior. He even tried to levy professional action against me for standing up for physicians. It's sickening but I'm afraid it's probably not too abnormal for these older generation docs who are looking out for their bottom lines only.

Edit: it's actually a felony in my state so this lady may serve jail time. I don't feel bad though, her behavior is egregious and illegal and she ought to pay a price.

lmao, good for you i guess. I would never risk my grade over that but more power to ya

 

[efle]

Why are nurses so adamant about introducing themselves as 'Dr So and So' in healthcare setting? I don't introduce myself as Dr Splenda88 outside of the hospital because my title serves no purpose outside of that setting... I do it in healthcare settings because I want patients to know my role in an increasingly complex medical system

Everyone understands that once you introduce yourself as Dr in healthcare settings, people assume you are a physician or dentist or podiatrist. Why do nurses insist in doing that? Is it because of insecurity? I don't see pharmacist, PT, OT try to do that

I've seen research coordinators with just a bachelors walk around in long white coats. I assume it's because it makes patients more likely to consent to trials when the "informed" part comes from someone who looks like a doctor.

The midlevel thing seems like it could be a bit of a gray area. If someone is an independently practicing PCP in a state which allows that, what should they call themselves when they walk into the patient room? Practitioner [X] or Provider [Y] are going to confuse people every time. If you are the person doing the H&P, coming up with the plan and placing the orders for it, and the buck stops with you if you mess up... isn't Doctor the best (and really, only) way to communicate that to the patient?

 

[Splenda88]

I've seen research coordinators with just a bachelors walk around in long white coats. I assume it's because it makes patients more likely to consent to trials when the "informed" part comes from someone who looks like a doctor.

The midlevel thing seems like it could be a bit of a gray area. If someone is an independently practicing PCP in a state which allows that, what should they call themselves when they walk into the patient room? Practitioner [X] or Provider [Y] are going to confuse people every time. If you are the person doing the H&P, coming up with the plan and placing the orders for it, and the buck stops with you if you mess up... isn't Doctor the best (and really, only) way to communicate that to the patient?

No... Patient would assume that individual is a physician, which is not the case. It's misleading.

 

[efle]

No... Patient would assume that individual is a physician, which is not the case. It's misleading.

So put yourself in their shoes. You're the PCP and you want to introduce yourself. You are a fully independent practitioner. You're not willing to spend the first two minutes with every patient discussing the intricacies of your state's various PCP credentials.

What do you say? Hello I'm what?

 

[libertyyne]

So put yourself in their shoes. You're the PCP and you want to introduce yourself. You are a fully independent practitioner. You're not willing to spend the first two minutes with every patient discussing the intricacies of your state's various PCP credentials.

What do you say? Hello I'm what?

Im nurse practioner X.

 

[Lawpy]

Midlevels calling themselves as doctors is a disaster. Just introducing themselves by name without Dr. is plenty.

 

[efle]

Im nurse practioner X.

You just bought yourself two minutes discussing credentialing with that patient. They're gonna want to know where the doc who will prescribe them their meds is at.

 

[Neopolymath]

I've seen research coordinators with just a bachelors walk around in long white coats. I assume it's because it makes patients more likely to consent to trials when the "informed" part comes from someone who looks like a doctor.

The midlevel thing seems like it could be a bit of a gray area. If someone is an independently practicing PCP in a state which allows that, what should they call themselves when they walk into the patient room? Practitioner [X] or Provider [Y] are going to confuse people every time. If you are the person doing the H&P, coming up with the plan and placing the orders for it, and the buck stops with you if you mess up... isn't Doctor the best (and really, only) way to communicate that to the patient?

They should go by "Karen" or "Ms. Smith" or whatever. I don't call random people made up titles but maybe you call the jiffy lube guy "certified master Mercedes Benz mechanic Ted" because you get your oil changed there and happen to own a Mercedes. Let's not bull****.