MD/PhD student interested in rads, should I drop PhD?

[ejay19955]

I entered med school thinking I want to do radiology, and now about halfway through the clinical rotations, I have narrowed down my choices to rads, path and gas, with the latter two being a fairly distant second and third respectively.

Going through the clinical rotations, I am a bit dismayed by academia. Salary is like half that of PP, going up the academic ladder is stressful and often cutthroat sometimes (Granted being outside of academia comes with a different version of stress and competitions), teaching sounds fine but not fun enough to force me into a teaching hospital, and I am not rich and supported enough to pursue prestige over a better lifestyle. Most importantly, I am not sure if I am interested in basic science research as much anymore. If I must do the PhD, I think I'd happily do it, but when I think about the opportunity cost of doing the PhD, I'm very hesitant.

What would be the reasons for doing the PhD that I might not have thought about, for someone interested in rads? EDIT: If I do the PhD, the topic would be something related to rads, like computational image processing.

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[Radology]

Without reading your post, yes.

There is no utility in a PHD for practicing clinical medicine

 

[JoshSt]

I’m sure it’s not unique to rads, but at my program along with interacting with others, I’ve seen a great number of md-phds go into PP. I’d say on the order of at least 50%, if not more.

Even if you decide to do academia, you 100% don’t need a PhD to do good research.

If you’re thinking about dropping it, drop it. Academics or PP, that’s 2-4 years closer to attending salary.

 

[loljkttyl]

Drop the PhD. Waste of your time if not going into academics. Even if you change your mind, you can still do research without the PhD. Even worse, having the PhD may make private practices averse to hiring you if they feel your heart is in academics/research.

 

[tensoranalysis]

I think it is a rite of passage to become disillusioned and discouraged during the pursuit of the PhD. If you aren't excited about doing the PhD and are not fully committed before you've even started, I think that bodes ill for your ability to forge through the purgatory years of your project.

I would only do the PhD if you think it is essential to your future career goals.

 

[ejay19955]

Thank you all for your advice.

I am still debating so much, partially because I'm on a break just distracted by the absence of better things to do, but mainly because I am really not sure my thoughts about not doing the PhD are just because I'm tired from the clinical year. Having a PhD level training in research still sounds too sexy to me, to be honest, but if that means 4+ years of being a trainee with nothing to gain from it, I just want to get out asap. Also, it's not like doing the PhD while in med school is the only opportunity at getting trained in research during my career.

Maybe I will just try this out for a few months, or get a master's and leave, or I will be reminded how much I used to love research (I mean, I really think I still do. The time commitment is my concern) and happily stick it out through the end.

Even worse, having the PhD may make private practices averse to hiring you if they feel your heart is in academics/research.

I'm scared by this, though, if I end up pursuing the PhD. How much of this do you guys see?

 

[Tiger100]

If you want to become the future chairman of a big university program, PhD is almost a must.
If you want to work half clinical half research and have your high end research lab in the future, PhD is a great thing to have.

Otherwise, there is not reason to do PhD. It is a waste of time.

 

[angryfruitbat]

I entered med school thinking I want to do radiology, and now about halfway through the clinical rotations, I have narrowed down my choices to rads, path and gas, with the latter two being a fairly distant second and third respectively.

Going through the clinical rotations, I am a bit dismayed by academia. Salary is like half that of PP, going up the academic ladder is stressful and often cutthroat sometimes (Granted being outside of academia comes with a different version of stress and competitions), teaching sounds fine but not fun enough to force me into a teaching hospital, and I am not rich and supported enough to pursue prestige over a better lifestyle. Most importantly, I am not sure if I am interested in basic science research as much anymore. If I must do the PhD, I think I'd happily do it, but when I think about the opportunity cost of doing the PhD, I'm very hesitant.

What would be the reasons for doing the PhD that I might not have thought about, for someone interested in rads? EDIT: If I do the PhD, the topic would be something related to rads, like computational image processing.

Yes. Drop.

 

[Money Moniker]

Better make money while the sun still shines OP, cause the sun isn't going to be shining on medicine too much longer. This goes double for a field like rads. Delaying the attending paycheck for 4 years is most unwise.

 

[Shifty B]

There's some pretty pessimistic advice here. There are snippets of truth in all of it, but it's an incomplete picture.

If you are focused only on money, private practice is better and you should skip the MD/PhD for sure. Money is really only a part of life satisfaction and all radiologists in the US make enough money to live happily, even in expensive parts of the country. If you cannot live on an academic radiologist salary, you might consider what your expenses truly are. Things will change over time, with AI and whatever, but it won't be just physicians affected.

There are many other contributors to job satisfaction, including teaching trainees, advancing the specialty through research, advocating for the field through national organizations such as the ACR, etc, that are unique to an academic career. Very few positions radiology are >50% research and even fewer of them are at a lab bench. Of course there are other ways to train to do them outside a PhD. Consider the grind of private practice radiology when making up your mind. There is a reason the salaries are 2x higher.

If you are truly going to do a PhD and succeed, you need to at least be getting some enjoyment out of the journey itself. You need to enjoy the challenge of picking up a project, making it your own, and seeing it through until you can publish papers and a thesis. You may do nothing of the same type in your future career, but many of the skills do translate to other positions, including the ability to critically appraise the literature, write cohesive and well researched documents, and give presentations. Is that enough to justify a PhD? Probably not unless you are enjoying the journey itself.

Everyone has some discouraging moments. I suggest that you find some trusted people around you, in more senior positions at your program, in your hospital but unaffiliated with your program, who can support you with your concerns. They are real, and you are right to consider your options. Good luck.