MD (almost guaranteed spot at UMASS the following year) or start right away at a decent DO

[Msantac2]

Hi all!

I'm currently trying to make a decision and would like some input. OK so UMASS has basically accepted me into post-bacc program which is one year long. This program grants me conditional acceptance to their medical school the following year (given I pass the course work). The acceptance rate on the post-bacc varies with some years having 100% acceptance rate (4 out of 4 students) and with other years having a 75% (3 out of 4 students) acceptance rate. I would basically be taking half of the courses with the first-year medical students to ensure I can handle the rigor or medical school. I have also been accepted into 3 DO programs (NYITCOM, NSUCOM, and CUSOM). Out of these three DO programs I choose NYITCOM because of it's reputable match list and rates and the location is very close to home (boyfriend, friends, and family = huge support system).

With everything taken into account I'm leaning towards the UMASS program because from what I've been told from friends in UMASS who have gone through the program that if you work hard and are really dedicated you should get in without a problem. I can't help and worry that I may go through the program and give up my seats at these DO schools and not get into UMASS. Also is it really worth postponing starting my first year of medical school just to get an MD instead of a DO?

I thought I'd be fine going the DO route and was coming to terms with it but now that this opportunity has come up I'm just not sure what to do.

Also my stats are: cum GPA 3.65, science GPA 3.50 (strong upwards trend my last two years of ugrad), MCAT: 505

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[Cath Up]

With combined residency programs, MD vs DO is starting to matter less and less with each passing year. There are plenty of DO schools that are leagues ahead of other MD schools in terms of quality. Unless you want to match derm, plastics, or neurosurg, I wouldn't worry about it. After all, the letters behind your name don't matter as much as how well you preform as a physician. People tend to be too competative and worry about getting into the most competitive specialties/residency here but the OP has never said a specialty of interest yet unless I missed that. Who knows maybe the OP really wants to be a rural famprac. There's nothing wrong with that and there's no reason to think that having an MD will put you in better standing for that career choice. You can still ace your comlex and step1 as a DO if you're really that concerned about those more competitive specialties.

Appropriate that "tractors" is in your username because you tow the party line well. The bolded is untrue and the following published or discernable data proves it: true match rates, placement rates, match lists, first time boards pass rates, and attrition.

Listen to this guy,

SMP every day and twice on Sundays. This is the clear option, hands down.

1. MD >> DO in terms of career prospects. I don’t know if it is fair, but it’s just how the world works. This isn’t for a “select few specialties”, this is for almost every specialty. If you want to match into a top program, desirable locale, competitive specialty, etc MD will help tremendously.

2. Think of SMP like gaming the system. You’ll have the opportunity to prestudy for med school and thus STEP1 before even entering med school. Given how important that exam is to the rest of your med school career and life, this is invaluable.

3. As wisely stated above, if you can’t hack the SMP, you aren’t fit for med school. You got into a med school this cycle, which means you have what it takes. So just go ahead kill the SMP, and wind up at UMASS (which, btw, is a phenomenal, heavily underrated school).

Hope this helps, and best of luck

Also listen to Med Ed, and Goro, and many others. I think the bolded above is a very compelling argument, and it while it may be less true when you apply to residency, there is no substantial reason to believe the DO bias will be gone (barring an ACGME PD luncheon where the powder on the donuts is anthrax).

I've seen this for myself, but I encourage you to check out match lists. I'd believe it is increasingly true that slightly more DOs, proportionally are specializing, but it is absolutely proportionally less the case in desirable or competitive locations. If you care where you live, I think that's an important factor. Also for a number of more competitive specialties, you are at a very significant disadvantage. Even via busting your butt to do well on boards, there's likely to be less payout for the effort as a DO.


If you really really value certainty (like me) I suppose it would be reasonable to go DO. I really don't think there's a wrong decision here. But It is absolutely true that you'd be in a stronger position for residency as an MD, especially with the 3 years of studying for step 1...

 

[PerkinsTractors]

Are you seriously insinuating not having an ending will put you in a better position to be a rural family practitioner? Because that's what I just stated

 

[PerkinsTractors]

*MD not ending sorry for the confusion.
Either way at the end of the day we have lecturers that are DOs, heads of MD medical schools are DOs, and amazing physicians of ALL specialties that are DOs. You have to look at the numbers on a school by school basis. Some schools will out preform others consistently but to lump all DO schools in that category is absurd. The are MD schools in this country that are just aweful in that regard. Theres always bad schools. Just do your research and don't go to those. But this rhetoric of MD over DO just makes healthcare divided. They are/will be your peers, mentors, and bosses. Not everyone goes to John Hopkins and not everyone gets a residency at the Mayo Clinic. Follow YOUR path to medicine and forget all the competitiveness. Physicians (DO or MD) have great job opportunities. Hardly anyone is going to have that hard of a time job wise. I'm not trying to start an MD/DO war. I just don't see why that is a big factor when the OP could potentially not get into that MD school, especially when we don't know what they wanting to do. Plus this makes other people that will look to SDN for guidance think that a top tier DO program they were accepted to is lesser than the bottom tier MD program just because of the two letters.

By the way, Perkins Tractors were false medical implements back before medicine became a more scientific field. Thanks for ruining the joke though

 

[Cath Up]

Are you seriously insinuating not having an ending will put you in a better position to be a rural family practitioner? Because that's what I just stated

I apologize, you are absolutely correct that for rural family practice there would be no significant difference. I somehow missed that very significant qualifier to your statement.

*MD not ending sorry for the confusion.
Either way at the end of the day we have lecturers that are DOs, heads of MD medical schools are DOs, and amazing physicians of ALL specialties that are DOs. You have to look at the numbers on a school by school basis. Some schools will out preform others consistently but to lump all DO schools in that category is absurd. The are MD schools in this country that are just aweful in that regard. Theres always bad schools. Just do your research and don't go to those. But this rhetoric of MD over DO just makes healthcare divided. They are/will be your peers, mentors, and bosses. Not everyone goes to John Hopkins and not everyone gets a residency at the Mayo Clinic. Follow YOUR path to medicine and forget all the competitiveness. Physicians (DO or MD) have great job opportunities. Hardly anyone is going to have that hard of a time job wise. I'm not trying to start an MD/DO war. I just don't see why that is a big factor when the OP could potentially not get into that MD school, especially when we don't know what they wanting to do. Plus this makes other people that will look to SDN for guidance think that a top tier DO program they were accepted to is lesser than the bottom tier MD program just because of the two letters.

By the way, Perkins Tractors were false medical implements back before medicine became a more scientific field. Thanks for ruining the joke though

OP's decision really well illustrates the perceived differences in opportunities between a strong MD and a DO program. Is a probably-sure-thing MD worth attending over a sure thing DO? I mostly agree with what you have to say above, that it shouldn't matter, there shouldn't be a separate-but-equal thing going on, and prestige doesn't and/or shouldn't matter very much. And yeah most everything comes down to individual effort regardless of institution.

The conversation here is important because there is, on average, (and I'd say certainly in this case given the quality of MD program) a difference in the residencies and careers that students enter into. Impossible to truly know whether that's just a difference in student preferences between programs. But given that this is on average the case across all strong MD vs DO programs, my guess is the program name and the MD definitely has something to do with it. I interpreted your original post as minimizing the differences, and I wanted to rebuke that because it could have very impactful consequences for OP or anyone reading this thread if they want to attend competitive university residency programs on the coasts and/or apply to stuff like surgical subspecialties, derm, IR, fellowship-attaining IM, competitive academics. I don't see as much of that on DO match lists.

I really wanted to fit the tractor burn in. You have a nice username.


And bottom tier MD > top tier DO 9.9/10 times. I'm not sure about CNU over TCOM.

 

[PerkinsTractors]

And bottom tier MD > top tier DO 9.9/10 times. I'm not sure about CNU over TCOM.

If I'm minimizing then is well beyond maximizing the difference. And I know my experience is anecdotal, however, the DOs I know tend to want those specialties that are not as hard to get into. So that skews the data quiet a bit. But the ones I know that wanted to specialize, tended to not have that big of a problem. But if your only goal is to specialize in the hardest of specialties (which I think it is a bad decision to go into medical school without an open mind anyways) then yes an MD is an advantage in this day and age. But anything in the middle is not going to see that big of a difference if at all. This is a good discussion to have for the OP and overall though.

 

[Msantac2]

You guys have been very helpful! If it's worth anything I am interested in Anesthesiology (doesn't seem too competitive and NYITCOM has matched a lot of their students into good anesthesia programs) but I am keeping an open mind.

 

[deleted966008]

You guys have been very helpful! If it's worth anything I am interested in Anesthesiology (doesn't seem too competitive and NYITCOM has matched a lot of their students into good anesthesia programs) but I am keeping an open mind.

If you’re pretty set on Anesthesiology and could see yourself at one of the places they match, it’s more of a personal choice then.

Would you rather have an extra year of practice and a guaranteed medical degree or risk it for the MD to potentially have more options down the road? (but like the others said, maybe be “blacklisted” by DO)

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Personal anecdote: I turned down a DO acceptance last semester and I have multiple MD acceptances this cycle. Do what you think is best for you. Just be prepared to work for it.

 

[rball]

Just a disclaimer my comments above have nothing to do with the quality of DO doctors, or the quality of education they receive, etc. I am sure they make great doctors and there is no reason to believe your clinical skills/doctoring/etc would suffer by going DO. May even help given their philosophy.

That being said, the reality of finding a job is that MD >> DO with some exceptions like rural family med. I think if you have a clear path to pursue MD (which seems you do), you do it. Will help in almost every field, anesthesia included.

 

[PerkinsTractors]

I guess I have to tell all the orthopedic surgeons and cardiologists that are DOs they have to switch to family med in the country now

 

[Goro]

*MD not ending sorry for the confusion.
Either way at the end of the day we have lecturers that are DOs, heads of MD medical schools are DOs, and amazing physicians of ALL specialties that are DOs.

While my DO school has had an MD as a curriculum Dean, I'd like to hear of other examples of the bolded.

 

[Dwan]

If I'm minimizing then is well beyond maximizing the difference. And I know my experience is anecdotal, however, the DOs I know tend to want those specialties that are not as hard to get into. So that skews the data quiet a bit. But the ones I know that wanted to specialize, tended to not have that big of a problem. But if your only goal is to specialize in the hardest of specialties (which I think it is a bad decision to go into medical school without an open mind anyways) then yes an MD is an advantage in this day and age. But anything in the middle is not going to see that big of a difference if at all. This is a good discussion to have for the OP and overall though.

People make choices among options that are accessible to them. So most people, whether at HMS or DO schools, end up matching to "top choices." Comparing the match lists of UMass with any DO school, Umass students have a lot more options. In IM, even for the solid programs that DOs are capable of making it into (none of the top 20), you can get in with far lower scores as an MD, in addition to getting interviews at programs inaccessible to DOs. Just google "IM match results" on SDN each year and compare the interview list of top DOs with average MDs. No one can guarantee that they are capable of scoring 250-260 on boards, even if some DO did it to get into a program that an MD with 230 could get. It goes beyond just competitive specialties. This isn't a bash on DOs as physicians - there were tons of DOs far smarter and more personable than me in my app cycle, however, they interviewed at much less competitive places and were rejected from many mid-tiers that they would've easily got as an MD. And if OP was interested in rural FM, they have a great rural program at Umass which gives you those experiences without forcing you into PC: Population-Based Urban and Rural Community Health (PURCH) Track.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Plus this makes other people that will look to SDN for guidance think that a top tier DO program they were accepted to is lesser than the bottom tier MD program just because of the two letters.

Because in terms of residency prospects that low tier MD program >> the "top tier" DO program. Source: a DO student.

That being said, the reality of finding a job is that MD >> DO with some exceptions like rural family med.

Residency yes, but I know a lot of residents in a lot of fields and all of them found the jobs in locations they wanted. Jobs is a lot different than residency.

 

[Med Ed]

You guys have been very helpful! If it's worth anything I am interested in Anesthesiology (doesn't seem too competitive and NYITCOM has matched a lot of their students into good anesthesia programs) but I am keeping an open mind.

I am not knocking NYITCOM, but if you go there you will join a class of 300+ students in an institution with five departments and dozens of hospital affiliations (that's typically not a positive).

If you go to UMass you will join a class of ~130 in an institution with twenty four departments and a 781 bed teaching hospital.

There is simply no comparison between the clinical education you would receive at the two schools.

 

[rball]

Because in terms of residency prospects that low tier MD program >> the "top tier" DO program. Source: a DO student.


Residency yes, but I know a lot of residents in a lot of fields and all of them found the jobs in locations they wanted. Jobs is a lot different than residency.

Typically though where you end up finding a job depends on where you did your residency/fellowship and who you know, which will often be affected based on whether you go MD vs DO. I suppose this is very specialty and location dependent though.

I guess I have to tell all the orthopedic surgeons and cardiologists that are DOs they have to switch to family med in the country now

Nobody said you can’t pursue any field in any location as a DO. I am just saying that the road will be much more difficult to get there, in almost every field. I again have nothing against DO’s and personally think the MD bias is unfair, but it’s just the reality and I want to ensure OP is aware of that when making this type of decision.

This also isn’t some random “low-tier” MD school; UMass is an outstanding school that consistently matches well.

 

[Msantac2]

Hi all so I have a couple of updates after I attended the orientation for the HSPP program at UMass. Basically I would have to retake the MCAT and score at least a 125 in each section and do well in half of the classes first year med students are taking. Some of these class credits would tranfer for first year during the 2020 school year. If all goes well I would be basically starting med school August 2020 at UMass.

Also after meeting the former HSPP students and faculty I fell in love with the program and the school as a whole. From what I saw the students are very collaborative and supportive. I was basically told that coming to this program was a no-brainer for me. Also the faculty were very kind and caring. I had lost my wallet on my way to UMass and mentioned it while talking to the program directer. The program directer forced me to take $50 cash ( I will be returning it with a thank you letter) just in case I would need it on my trip back home. I have not felt this kind of support from any other med school. The program directors want you to get in and it's really up to you to put in the work to make it happen. Knowing myself I know I would not let my self sabotage this opportunity and will work my tail off to ensure I make it through and go to medical school.

Given the chances of getting admitted for August 2020, the faculty and students, resources available, learning hospital, and immense research opportunities at UMass I am strongly leaning towards it.

 

[Moko]

Hi all so I have a couple of updates after I attended the orientation for the HSPP program at UMass. Basically I would have to retake the MCAT and score at least a 125 in each section and do well in half of the classes first year med students are taking. Some of these class credits would tranfer for first year during the 2020 school year. If all goes well I would be basically starting med school August 2020 at UMass.

Also after meeting the former HSPP students and faculty I fell in love with the program and the school as a whole. From what I saw the students are very collaborative and supportive. I was basically told that coming to this program was a no-brainer for me. Also the faculty were very kind and caring. I had lost my wallet on my way to UMass and mentioned it while talking to the program directer. The program directer forced me to take $50 cash ( I will be returning it with a thank you letter) just in case I would need it on my trip back home. I have not felt this kind of support from any other med school. The program directors want you to get in and it's really up to you to put in the work to make it happen. Knowing myself I know I would not let my self sabotage this opportunity and will work my tail off to ensure I make it through and go to medical school.

Given the chances of getting admitted for August 2020, the faculty and students, resources available, learning hospital, and immense research opportunities at UMass I am strongly leaning towards it.

Seems like your mind is set on UMass/HSPP. Personally, I would have gone with the DO in your situation, but I'm also risk-averse and was not interested in anything uber competitive. Having said that, everyone has different goals and risk tolerance. Let us know in a year how things turn out. Hopefully things will work out as planned. Best of luck to you.

A word of advice for the future: never become star-struck or wedded to a program.. Just like applicants are on their best behavior during the interview day, faculty and administration members are also putting their best foot forward to sell the program to applicants. Keep this in mind for residency interviews and job searches: incentives for both parties rarely fully align.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

If you can't hack the UMass program then you won't hack NYITCOM.

Take the conditional acceptance and work your tail off. You aren't losing a year, you're investing time to have more options down the road.

And here we have a physician (and, I am guessing, an adcom member), advising you to turn down the DO for the conditional MD acceptance. If I was in your shoes, I would do that - but it all comes down to your confidence in your MCAT skills. 500...isn't terribly high, and if you're putting up 510s or better on official AAMC materials I'd give you a ~90 percent chance of getting a 500 or better on the real thing.