MCAT third time's a charm???

[sisyphus]

I'm going to take the mcats in August. Yes, for the THIRD time. The first two, I got scores that were half of what I should've had. I'm hoping that this year it will be different. My question is what do you think my chances are of getting into DO schools? Is it even possible?

I have an undegrad GPA of 3.66, my graduate GPA is a 3.7.

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[DrQuinn]

Like your name implies, you are a hard worker, but with little fruition...

Apply anyways. I know several people in my class that had MCATs <20. One of my good friends had to take the MCAT four times.

You have a good GPA, you may just be a poor test-taker. Who knows your chances of getting into DO school, just apply and accept the interviews.

Q

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Slickness
I'm sure these people are hardworkers but a below 20 MCAT is really low. I could have easily received a 19 without studying for it. Why do DO schools have such low standards? I do like DO schools but I worked hard in undergrad and it seems like I could have worked half as hard while still making a DO school.

Who is to say you worked harder than anyone else, and that you deserve a spot more than the other person?

I believe 24 is the average score for the MCAT... someone scores a 30, someone scores a 3, someone scores a 12. Things happen.

I worked at a moderate pace in undergrad, but got into DO schools. I didnt' work much at all throughout medical school but still will graduate with honors, a 99%ile on my boards, and matched at my #1 choice. But does that mean I deserve all that recognition more than anyone else who worked harder than I did? I don't believe so.
Q

 

[oceandocDO]

Regarding the "poor test taker" mentality. Lose it right now. If you're not a good test taker, find out how to be. The MCAT is only a half-decent predictor of success in medical school because it tests your ability to take tests. A very, very small percentage of the actual material tested on the MCAT will ever be covered or even mentioned in medical school. The test examines your ability to study under pressure and to think under pressure, the two most important attributes in doing well in medical curricula. I took over 100 multiple choice tests in the first two years of medical school. Hence, test taking knowledge is of utmost importance in surviving. Are there people that got in with less than 20s? Sure. I, for one, wonder how, but if they did well in class, it's because they learned how to take tests.

Quinn... you're argument of "who is to say you worked harder than someone else" doesnt hold much water. If you scored a 99% on your boards, congrats, but how would you feel if someone came in with a 60% on their boards and got your residency slot. There's a pecking order in the world today, and unfortunately it's determined by numbers. I agree that scores arent everything, but it's the fairest way we have right now.

Slickness.... not all D.O. students slid into medical school with 19's and a 2.8gpa. I had a 30+ and a 3.4 and I agree that D.O. schools must raise the bar a bit. However, realize that the middle 50% of D.O. and M.D. schools are, statistically, not that different. It's the upper Ivies and the lowest tier of D.O. students that sneek in that really swing the scales to offer the admissions figures as of present.

 

[oceandocDO]

Like I said, I agree with you, mostly. Remember though, you cant judge a person's intellect or potential by a single test. It would be like saying the Yankees arent the overall best team in baseball because they havent won the World Series in the past 2 years. Many people who are admitted with lower scores have other intangibles on their resume, including second careers, masters degrees, etc. We have a ton of PAs, nurses, pharmacists, even a few lawyers in my school. While they all didnt have a 33 on their MCAT, whose to say they didnt "work harder" than you in their bid for acceptance. They're all smarter than me. "Working harder" is such a subjective term and makes me wanna gag honestly. Many of them rocked the COMLEX and/or USMLE, hence did they "work harder" than you in medical school? By your standards, yes. Do they not have a right to be a great doctor because you "worked harder" as a 20 year old kid in learning how to take the MCAT? Last I checked you dont need the MCAT for medical licensure

Now, I'm not backpedaling on my original statement. I believe every aspiring physician should be expected to perform well on the MCAT because the ritual of studying for it, along with it's stressors, is the closest they'll come to the mentality they'll need to succeed as a medical student in the form of concentrating day in and day out under the pressure to learn quickly. That being said, this isnt the only road by which to "prove yourself", it's just the most travelled and hence most accepted. However, those that dont do well should be prepared to work harder once in medical school, for they cant rely on their test taking skills to get by.

I'm not sure why everyone has to be so concerned with who "worked harder" anyway. If it's a way to stroke your ego, so be it, but I dont get off on that. That mentality is the thing that honestly first turned me off to MD school in the first place. I always seemed to outperform many of my premed MD- wannabe colleagues in undergraduate, but I never identified with them otherwise and they hated me for it. While they cried about getting a "A-" vs. an "A", I worried about when happy hour started and settled for the "A-". Would I do it differently looking back? Hell no.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by oceandocDO

Quinn... you're argument of "who is to say you worked harder than someone else" doesnt hold much water. If you scored a 99% on your boards, congrats, but how would you feel if someone came in with a 60% on their boards and got your residency slot. There's a pecking order in the world today, and unfortunately it's determined by numbers. I agree that scores arent everything, but it's the fairest way we have right now.

I agree with part of your statement. Scores aren't everything but its the most equitable and objective thing that PD's have to use for applicants. If someone who scored a 60% on their boards got the spot ahead of me (which I'm sure could easily have happened at other residencies I ranked), that's fine. That's how it works. I know people who were 1st in their med school class who scored average on boards. One of my good friends was an ARNP in the ED for 5+ years, and scored an 80% on COMLEX. If he got the spot ahead of me, I know why, because he's better qualified.

So, if someone who didn't have the grades I did got the spot ahead of me, that's how the world works. Maybe he's the PD's son, or got a letter from Dr. Romano, Dr. Carter, and Dr. Benton, who cares... he got the spot fair and square and that's the way the world works.

"Worked harder than..." is definately either a gunner statement or as close to one as can be...

Q

 

[Ca$h MaNi]

Hey sisyphus...

I've probably had some of the most extenuating circumstances due to family health issues....I went to four different schools. My GPA was a 1.79 at one of them....and then I had a 3.75 with the other three and graduated...so altogether AACOMAS averaged it out to be a 3.1 for applying to medical school. AMCAS averaged it as a 3.0 with a 2.75 science gpa. Nonetheless I applied to 11 MD, and 9 DO...I got accepted to 6 DO schools and 1 MD school. Turned down the MD for the DO school(NSUCOM!! ...which I can't wait to get started and am so excited that I made it this far! So keep hope alive, and if you got a dream ...you CAN achieve it....as cheesy as it sounds...I never thought it was possible till I did it myself. Numbers aren't the end all of medical school.

Oh by the way I took the MCAT three times figuring I needed to score mid to upper 30's to get in since my GPA was sooooo low. But I didnt score in that range...I scored low to mid 20's and still got those acceptances...so i think you are fine. Don't worry about it...just apply and you'll achieve what you want!

Good luck,
Mani
NSUCOM Class of 2007

 

[DoctorDoogie4]

Hey Sisyphus,


Let me to start off and say that the journey you are embarking on is a rewarding one that requires every ounce of effort you have inside your body and your soul. With regards to the application process and taking the MCAT, your GPA stands fine. Many of the adcom committes will look highly on you because of the solid GPA. Congrats to that! Now for the bitch...the MCAT. When I was applying to medical schools, I was told my an adcom chair that you have to have the numbers to get your foot through the door. Once your foot is through the door, then you can show them the person behind the scores. With the D.O. philosophy, they tend to look at the whole person but I agree that adcom chair in that you must have some solid numbers to get in. With the GPA already high, you need to focus on the MCAT. The MCAT is a test that no one would like to repeat more than once but you have to do what you have to do in order to realize your dream. I took the MCAT three times as well. I scored pretty darn well on all three. High 20s on the first two and then high 30s on the last one. Let me share some insight on how to succeed on the MCAT.

First, relax and be patient with the studying. In my honest opinion, the MCAT is a stress test. You have all these passages with crap info. There maybe only one to four lines worth of material you need to answer the questions.

Second, pace your studying. Start as early as possible!! Don't wait 30 days before the MCAT and start studying. You want as much time possible to learn and UNDERSTAND (keyword!!) the material. Granted you probably won't understand all the material but make sure you understand most of it to get you by.

Third, on the AAMC websites order practice MCATs and take as many as you can. Review what your strong points are and study your weak points. Practice makes perfect!!

Fourth, If you are an unstructured student that needs an already set schedule for you to study, I would look into Kaplan or Princeton. I chose Kaplan not becuase I need structure but the wealth of practice items they have. The lectures didn't really help. A lot of money but if you use it enough...it's worth it!!

Fifth, talk to people who are also studying for the MCAT. I found this helpful because we shared ideas and supported each other when we were studying for the MCAT. However, DO NOT GET WORRIED IF SOMEONE IS AHEAD OR SCORES BETTER THAN YOU ON PRACTICE TESTS!! Each person is different and each person will study at a different pace than you! The same is vice versa. Don't get overconfident because you know the material better than someone...just keep on truckin!!

 

[paramed2premed]

Props to Doctordoogie4 for staying on message! It is amazing how these these things runaway from the OP's question.

The MCAT is a toughie. I am a "good test-taker," (MCAT 36S) but I also think that reflects a certain analytic ability. After all, that's what the MCAT is supposed to assess, not the material. And, like it or not, the USMLE or COMLEX will rule your life soon enough (hopefully ), so it pays to get better at tests. On the other hand, it is but one factor in an applicant's history. Scores do not reflect passion or aptitude.

Sisyphus, the boulder you are rolling uphill will not get any smaller on the next attempt. Carefully evaluate your previous efforts to see what you can improve. If you decide that you prepared as well as you could have, just apply. You are unlikely to change your score. I imagine you have much in your application that speaks well of you, and you have to hope that it "clicks" with an adcom. Remember, the best medical school is one that wants you!

QuinNSU has a good attitude about the process, and perhaps the only way to stay sane. There are many subjective and objective factors in the whole educational process, and it is best to leave simple notions of "fairness" behind.

 

[paramed2premed]

Two waitlists, Pitt and Albany. If you needed any proof that MCATs aren't everything...

My GPA is pathetic, even after much recent coursework, all A's.
I did't do much in college my first two years.

If I didn't have those MCATs, I wouldn't even bother applying to med schools. I studied and practiced for months on my own, knowing how this one test would affect my future.

I suppose I wouldn't have worked so hard if I knew I was a natural at tests!

 

[sisyphus]

Thanks for the advice everyone!