May have did wrong "DC" designation in LOR

[drm17]

Hey everyone. I am a non-US Caribbean IMG applying to IM this season. I almost have all of my LORs ready, but I have one LOR designated as a DC. This person is the physician I did my core IM rotation with, and is very influential (CEO, director of many big medical things, etc.) in his location/area, and told me he would be considered as one, and uploaded the LOR. I heard another student talking that he "may not be considered as such due to things they read online". I am currently very confused, and was wondering if I should somehow try to get him to reupload without choosing "DC"? Btw, ECFMG has approved the letter he uploaded. Am I stressing/panicking for no reason?

Many places say they require 3 LOR, preferably at least 1 from IM. I currently have 2 IM (One is DC i wrote about), and 1 from FM (recommending to IM) accepted, and waiting on another IM LOR. Would sending 4 LORs, including this DC, hurt my chances if it's not the type of "DC" they expect?

I would appreciate any help, as I didn't know where else to ask. Thanks!

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[Smurfette]

DC meaning a chiropractor?

 

[drm17]

DC meaning a chiropractor?

Department Chair

 

[NotAProgDirector]

This is not something to worry about. No one will care whether that box is checked or not.

 

[drm17]

This is not something to worry about. No one will care whether that box is checked or not.

Thank you so much for the reply. Do you think sending 4 LORs instead of 3 is a negative? Or would sending 4 to every program is ok?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thank you so much for the reply. Do you think sending 4 LORs instead of 3 is a negative? Or would sending 4 to every program is ok?

This is the to-be-or-not-to-be or which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg question of the ERAS forum. There's no answer. Personally, I think programs would be pretty ridiculous to consider submitting 4 letters a negative if they ask for three. Seems pretty stupid to me.

But others are certain it's a thing, demonstrates that you can't follow directions, and will torch your application.

And never underestimate the stupidity of other people.

Who knows?

 

[drm17]

This is the to-be-or-not-to-be or which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg question of the ERAS forum. There's no answer. Personally, I think programs would be pretty ridiculous to consider submitting 4 letters a negative if they ask for three. Seems pretty stupid to me.

But others are certain it's a thing, demonstrates that you can't follow directions, and will torch your application.

And never underestimate the stupidity of other people.

Who knows?

Sir, you are the best help. I would really appreciate the answer to one last question, as I've been debating it for the past week. What would you recommend for non-US Caribbean IMGs in geographic signalling on the supplemental ERAS? For example, I will be going for IM (Step 1: 25X, Step 2: 23X, no red flags/gaps, plenty of volunteer/clinical work, just graduated to receive my ECFMG certificate), and will be applying broadly (literally anywhere as not matching is the worst outcome, and due to feeling like i wont match/not good enough). Even though my parents live in the USA, I don't really care about where/which state as long as I get to practice medicine. But some people have recommended that signalling may yield better results. I couldn't come up with a logical plan/answer to myself on what to do with this part of the application without worrying as it feels like it may shut down all the other options in other states. I really would appreciate any advice you can give me on this. Thank you so much regardless.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I doubt that choosing "no geographic preference" would negatively impact your application. But it's relatively new, so impossible to be certain.

 

[drm17]

I doubt that choosing "no geographic preference" would negatively impact your application. But it's relatively new, so impossible to be certain.

So it would have no negative impact, but also no advantage. Which would make choosing preferences have advantages but also disadvantages to other regions (and not get interviews). Did I understand this correctly?

 

[thumbz]

So it would have no negative impact, but also no advantage. Which would make choosing preferences have advantages but also disadvantages to other regions (and not get interviews). Did I understand this correctly?

I'll throw in my $0.02, realizing I'm not as wise as NotAProg but I can bring a different perspective.

Caveat - we are a smaller, community program. We do our initial round of invites based on geo preference - we use that tool to try to make sure our interview spots go to people more likely to actually relocate to our area now that everything is virtual. With applicants attending so many more interviews we had to find a way to help not waste spots on people with no intention of matching to us. I suspect we end up almost like a safety school for a good number of people, or as a practice interview.

Our second round of invites we don't look at geo preference at all. But then use other exclusionary criteria to narrow down our list.

So it could have a negative impact at some programs, but everyone uses it so differently.

 

[drm17]

I'll throw in my $0.02, realizing I'm not as wise as NotAProg but I can bring a different perspective.

Caveat - we are a smaller, community program. We do our initial round of invites based on geo preference - we use that tool to try to make sure our interview spots go to people more likely to actually relocate to our area now that everything is virtual. With applicants attending so many more interviews we had to find a way to help not waste spots on people with no intention of matching to us. I suspect we end up almost like a safety school for a good number of people, or as a practice interview.

Our second round of invites we don't look at geo preference at all. But then use other exclusionary criteria to narrow down our list.

So it could have a negative impact at some programs, but everyone uses it so differently.

Thank you for the response. So in your program, "no preference" is equivalent to someone who chose some other 3 geographic areas?

 

[thumbz]

Thank you for the response. So in your program, "no preference" is equivalent to someone who chose some other 3 geographic areas?

Yep exactly!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As you can see, there's no right/best answer.

Some programs may ignore the item completely. In that case, nothing you do makes any difference.

Some programs may only consider people who chose their geo area. In that case, No pref or not picking that area yield the same result of no interview.

Some programs may give preference to those who chose their area, but still consider those who chose No Pref or chose other areas. In that case, picking the geo area is a plus, and programs may differ about what they do with No Pref or geo area not being picked.

There's no way to know what proportion of programs are in each category.

Not answering the question looks the same (to us) as picking 3 other regions -- so that's always a losing choice.

 

[drm17]

As you can see, there's no right/best answer.

Some programs may ignore the item completely. In that case, nothing you do makes any difference.

Some programs may only consider people who chose their geo area. In that case, No pref or not picking that area yield the same result of no interview.

Some programs may give preference to those who chose their area, but still consider those who chose No Pref or chose other areas. In that case, picking the geo area is a plus, and programs may differ about what they do with No Pref or geo area not being picked.

There's no way to know what proportion of programs are in each category.

Not answering the question looks the same (to us) as picking 3 other regions -- so that's always a losing choice.

Yep exactly!

Right when I was about to decide on "no preference" and write a description of why, these replies have shown me "no preference" has no advantage over choosing a preference, even for unpicked locations.

This has been surprising and shocking to me, as I thought being neutral geographically as an IMG would be better to not push away any potential programs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Right when I was about to decide on "no preference" and write a description of why, these replies have shown me "no preference" has no advantage over choosing a preference, even for unpicked locations.

That's not completely correct. Some programs may consider people with "no preference" equally to those with a stated preference. Or, they might consider them somewhat less than those with a stated preference but still consider them.

Many more programs may decide to actively avoid applicants with a stated non-preference (i.e. chose other regions)

I thought only the programs in the region you pick see that you picked that region and what you wrote as to the reason you picked said region @NotAProgDirector @thumbz

Yes, that's true. If you picked regions A, B, and C to indicate a preference you could write explanations for each and only programs in those areas would see the explanations.

if you choose "no preference", everyone sees that and any explanation you may choose to write.

If I see a blank response for the question, then either 1) you didn't answer the question at all, or 2) you picked other regions. Since #1 seems very unlikely, I assume it's #2.

 

[drm17]

That's not completely correct. Some programs may consider people with "no preference" equally to those with a stated preference. Or, they might consider them somewhat less than those with a stated preference but still consider them.

Many more programs may decide to actively avoid applicants with a stated non-preference (i.e. chose other regions)

Yes, that's true. If you picked regions A, B, and C to indicate a preference you could write explanations for each and only programs in those areas would see the explanations.

if you choose "no preference", everyone sees that and any explanation you may choose to write.

If I see a blank response for the question, then either 1) you didn't answer the question at all, or 2) you picked other regions. Since #1 seems very unlikely, I assume it's #2.

How would you look at an applicant that has not specifically chosen your geographic area but chosen to signal your program specifically?
@NotAProgDirector @thumbz

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I have no idea. "I would rather be in some other large swath of the country (since you can geo pref three regions), but if I'm stuck being somewhere else I'd rather be there"? Or "I'd be very happy in your program, but if not there's other parts of the country I'd rather be in"? Or "You're at the bottom of my signals list (since the other programs are in my geo pref"? Probably the last.