Matching neurology as a DO?

[Postictal Raiden]

For my interest in possibly neurology as a specialty via COMLEX or for choosing to take USMLE?

To be honest, prestige isn't hugely important to me. As long as the program helps me become a competent physician, I'll take it. If I can get there via COMLEX and save myself the effort, I will.

Plan on taking step1. If your NBMEs aren't 210+, then ditch it and do COMLEX. There are plenty of neurology programs that you can match without USMLE. However, you will sacrifice geography/reputation of program.

You are in luck, neurology is a buyer's market now. I don't expect it ot stay like this for long. The day will come when neurology is as competitive as surgical fields.

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[IsWhat]

Plan on taking step1. If your NBMEs aren't 210+, then ditch it and do COMLEX. There are plenty of neurology programs that you can match without USMLE. However, you will sacrifice geography/reputation of program.

You are in luck, neurology is a buyer's market now. I don't expect it ot stay like this for long. The day will come when neurology is as competitive as surgical fields.

What makes you say that? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

What makes you say that? I'm genuinely curious.

Tons of money is being poured into neuroscience research. We haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the CNS and neuropathology. Neurology has never reached its full potential yet (unlike most fields). Add to that the aging population and the increase in demand for neurologists to mangage neurogdegenerative disorders.

I'm very optimistic about the field. However, I'm very biased too.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Tons of money is being poured into neuroscience research. We haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the CNS and neuropathology. Neurology has never reached its full potential yet (unlike most fields). Add to that the aging population and the increase in demand for neurologists to mangage neurogdegenerative disorders.

I'm very optimistic about the field. However, I'm very biased too.

Go back to radiology, traitor.

 

[Goro]

Tons of money is being poured into neuroscience research. We haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the CNS and neuropathology. Neurology has never reached its full potential yet (unlike most fields). Add to that the aging population and the increase in demand for neurologists to mangage neurogdegenerative disorders.

I'm very optimistic about the field. However, I'm very biased too.

Yup, somebody has to take care of us aging Baby Boomers! For example, I got distracted the other day and almost put the milk in our cereal cabinet. One of you guys find a fix for that, will ya?

 

[hallowmann]

Tons of money is being poured into neuroscience research. We haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the CNS and neuropathology. Neurology has never reached its full potential yet (unlike most fields). Add to that the aging population and the increase in demand for neurologists to mangage neurogdegenerative disorders.

I'm very optimistic about the field. However, I'm very biased too.

I agree that the field is awesome and will likely improve and expand given what you mentioned. I disagree with your statement though that most fields have reached their full potential. They haven't. A lot of what you're saying (dealing with an aging population, or for example improving tech and research) are things that apply to multiple fields, not just Neuro. I mean just look at ID and old HIV patients.

I also don't think that they'll be as competitive as surgical subspecialties unless reimbursement increases to that level or higher (its not there right now but its certainly not bad). Ultimately its the money and lifestyle that dictates which fields are competitive, because the majority of med students are looking at their debt and while they might be interested in two fields, they usually choose the one that pays more and makes them work the least. Neuro has a decent lifestyle and pay, but I don't think its the next Derm.

Again though, not knocking Neuro, great field all in all, just tempering some of your bias .

 

[IslandStyle808]

I agree that the field is awesome and will likely improve and expand given what you mentioned. I disagree with your statement though that most fields have reached their full potential. They haven't. A lot of what you're saying (dealing with an aging population, or for example improving tech and research) are things that apply to multiple fields, not just Neuro. I mean just look at ID and old HIV patients.

I also don't think that they'll be as competitive as surgical subspecialties unless reimbursement increases to that level or higher (its not there right now but its certainly not bad). Ultimately its the money and lifestyle that dictates which fields are competitive, because the majority of med students are looking at their debt and while they might be interested in two fields, they usually choose the one that pays more and makes them work the least. Neuro has a decent lifestyle and pay, but I don't think its the next Derm.

Again though, not knocking Neuro, great field all in all, just tempering some of your bias .

I do agree with most of what you have stated. I think its better to say neurology and psychiatry in general has more untapped potential than most other fields.

I think what he is getting at is that neurology in general is a diagnostic field and so it can never generate the money the more procedural fields generate (unless a fellowship is done) currently. With on going research, there will be more treatments being developed. Thus general neurology can become more of a procedural field and would lead to greater income as a result (not to say neurologist don't do a lot of procedures, but more would be available with better outcomes).

I don't know about it becoming the next derm, but I do think it can become a field where they take more of a proactive role in treatment and make it more attractive to students.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Plan on taking step1. If your NBMEs aren't 210+, then ditch it and do COMLEX. There are plenty of neurology programs that you can match without USMLE. However, you will sacrifice geography/reputation of program.

You are in luck, neurology is a buyer's market now. I don't expect it ot stay like this for long. The day will come when neurology is as competitive as surgical fields.

I think neurology will likely always remain a very self selecting field just like PM&R or Psych. It just takes a certain type of person and to be both interested in the conditions and also in where neurology fits into modern medicine. But above all it just isn't all that competitive in lifestyle or pay compared to other specialties that most prospective neurologists may want to go into ex. rads or an IM subspecialty.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree that the field is awesome and will likely improve and expand given what you mentioned. I disagree with your statement though that most fields have reached their full potential. They haven't. A lot of what you're saying (dealing with an aging population, or for example improving tech and research) are things that apply to multiple fields, not just Neuro. I mean just look at ID and old HIV patients.

I also don't think that they'll be as competitive as surgical subspecialties unless reimbursement increases to that level or higher (its not there right now but its certainly not bad). Ultimately its the money and lifestyle that dictates which fields are competitive, because the majority of med students are looking at their debt and while they might be interested in two fields, they usually choose the one that pays more and makes them work the least. Neuro has a decent lifestyle and pay, but I don't think its the next Derm.

Again though, not knocking Neuro, great field all in all, just tempering some of your bias .

I think the analogy is that undoubtedly as we get better at treating patients and identifying new conditions the focus of entire specialties will shift, ex. how ID is now more focused on fevers of unknown origin as HIV is pharmacologically manageable. So undoubtedly, there's a lot of untapped potential. But unlike with HIV which likely will one day be akin to polio, people will always get subdural bleeds and you're always going to get calls from exhausted IM residents at all hours of the night, so that will always be a part of your job.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I think neurology will likely always remain a very self selecting field just like PM&R or Psych. It just takes a certain type of person and to be both interested in the conditions and also in where neurology fits into modern medicine. But above all it just isn't all that competitive in lifestyle or pay compared to other specialties that most prospective neurologists may want to go into ex. rads or an IM subspecialty.

While i agree with most of what you wrote, I gotta say that from what I've been seeing, psych is not self selecting. Not even close. Probably of the 30 something kids in my class who want to do psych, less than third of them are truly and genunily interested in it. The rest are pursuing it for either the lifestyle or to avoid primary care.

 

[hallowmann]

While i agree with most of what you wrote, I gotta say that from what I've been seeing, psych is not self selecting. Not even close. Probably of the 30 something kids in my class who want to do psych, less than third of them are truly and genunily interested in it. The rest are pursuing it for either the lifestyle or to avoid primary care.

People are solely choosing psych to avoid primary care? There are other options out there that don't have as specific a population as psych, and in turn the challenges associated with that patient population. I don't know, I don't get that.

Most people I know that are going into psych are doing it because they like it. Maybe it's different out west. Psych holds a different status out there than it does here. I really suspect that many of those people haven't really been exposed to an inpatient psych unit.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

People are solely choosing psych to avoid primary care? There are other options out there that don't have as specific a population as psych, and in turn the challenges associated with that patient population. I don't know, I don't get that.

Most people I know that are going into psych are doing it because they like it. Maybe it's different out west. Psych holds a different status out there than it does here. I really suspect that many of those people haven't really been exposed to an inpatient psych unit.

I agree a lot of people like psych, but if your board scores are really low, what are your alternatives? I can only think of maybe PM&R and Pathology. I hate to say it, but if I were in that position, I'd probably strongly consider psych just to avoid primary care.

 

[hallowmann]

I agree a lot of people like psych, but if your board scores are really low, what are your alternatives? I can only think of maybe PM&R and Pathology. I hate to say it, but if I were in that position, I'd probably strongly consider psych just to avoid primary care.

Honestly, you could do IM almost anywhere and then become a hospitalist or do an Endo or Nephro fellowship. You already mentioned two big ones I had in mind.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Honestly, you could do IM almost anywhere and then become a hospitalist or do an Endo or Nephro fellowship. You already mentioned two big ones I had in mind.

I've had enough acid/base **** for a lifetime, so no nephrology for this guy

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You're also in touchy feely California. Also more importantly most ppl drop their interest after they do psych 3rd year.

 

[Candidate2017]

Tons of money is being poured into neuroscience research. We haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the CNS and neuropathology. Neurology has never reached its full potential yet (unlike most fields). Add to that the aging population and the increase in demand for neurologists to mangage neurogdegenerative disorders.

I'm very optimistic about the field. However, I'm very biased too.

Simple stuff pays. Knee replacements, dropping tubes in kids' ears, injections, yanking molars. Reading EEGs? Get outta here.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly, you could do IM almost anywhere and then become a hospitalist or do an Endo or Nephro fellowship. You already mentioned two big ones I had in mind.

I'm not sure why someone would make a big deal of lifestyle between psychiatry and family medicine. FM can easily work psychiatry hours and will probably make similar amounts of money and do either no or minimal call.

 

[cryhavoc]

You're also in touchy feely California. Also more importantly most ppl drop their interest after they do psych 3rd year.

Yeah, where I live getting mental healthcare is looked down upon and people who provide care are thought poorly of for some reason. I don't really let that affect my interests though. And I interacted with a lot of psych patients over the years through volunteering and work and understand how hard (and sometimes dangerous) some of them are to interact with and don't mind at all. I just see it as part of the disease. A symptom.

Some of classmates can't even handle a unique opinion without having their minds blown, let alone someone who is mentally ill and acting in a way they aren't used to.

 

[NurWollen]

Most people I know that are going into psych are doing it because they like it. Maybe it's different out west. Psych holds a different status out there than it does here. I really suspect that many of those people haven't really been exposed to an inpatient psych unit.

I agree that a lot of people haven't been exposed to inpatient psych. I wasn't. My rotation was 100% outpatient.

I think psych and neuro are two specialties where there is the biggest gap between the inpatient and outpatient populations in terms of patient demographics as well as pathology, etc.

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[IslandStyle808]

I agree a lot of people like psych, but if your board scores are really low, what are your alternatives? I can only think of maybe PM&R and Pathology. I hate to say it, but if I were in that position, I'd probably strongly consider psych just to avoid primary care.

There is only one unmatched spot in PM&R this year and there are much less spots also in comparison to psych. PM&R is no back up to psych. Okay path on the other hand...

 

[cabinbuilder]

Is it all board score or do you need research?

I was always interested in psychiatry but I did well above the class average in neurology and find it comes naturally to me whereas many of my classmates struggled at it. And it just seems so interesting. I have very few things that come naturally to me, always had to work hard, so it peaked my interest.

So I don't want to take it off the table or realm of possibility in the future. Heck, I might even be interested a dual neuro/psych.

In order to not sabotage future me in case I do change my mind and decide neuro, is research necessary? Would undergrad neuro research be adequate or does it need to be in med school?

Would volunteer work with people suffering from neurological disorders be sufficient? I much prefer volunteering with people, I found testing lab animals to be boring. More of hands on person than a researcher.

Lots of DO neurologists. Not a very competitive field.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I agree a lot of people like psych, but if your board scores are really low, what are your alternatives? I can only think of maybe PM&R and Pathology. I hate to say it, but if I were in that position, I'd probably strongly consider psych just to avoid primary care.

To be fair.. you will still see a lot of mental health issues in primary care.
You may not be doing med management but you will be responsible for bridging that gap for people to be seen by a psychiatrist.

 

[noods]

Hi all! Wondering if I could get some guidance here. I am an OMSIII interested in neurology and trying to figure out what kind of chance I have. I earned a 550-600 on COMLEX and 200-220 on USMLE. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Hi all! Wondering if I could get some guidance here. I am an OMSIII interested in neurology and trying to figure out what kind of chance I have. I earned a 564 on COMLEX and 218 on USMLE. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

You’ll get enough interviews if you apply very broadly. PM me and I’ll give you more specific responses to your qs.

 

[Roxas]

You’ll get enough interviews if you apply very broadly. PM me and I’ll give you more specific responses to your qs.

How about someone with 470-ish comlex, no usmle and no research? A snowball's chance in hell?

I am just finishing my neuro rotation and to my great surprise, I've loved it. I'm still hoping to like my psych rotation more but atm neuro beats everything else I've done. I just know my app is garbage and if I stand a chance at all, it's a long shot.

Do you know anything about the aoa programs or their likelihood of getting shut down post-merger?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

How about someone with 470-ish comlex, no usmle and no research? A snowball's chance in hell?

I am just finishing my neuro rotation and to my great surprise, I've loved it. I'm still hoping to like my psych rotation more but atm neuro beats everything else I've done. I just know my app is garbage and if I stand a chance at all, it's a long shot.

Do you know anything about the aoa programs or their likelihood of getting shut down post-merger?

Not having usmle will hurt for sure, but there’s a good number of community and low-tier academic programs that may still be an option. I’d also consider former AOA programs as they tend to be less desirable. If you really want to match neuro, do a couple auditions and you should be fine if you apply broadly.

With respect to your second question, there only handful of AOA programs, and honestly I wouldn’t risk applying to them unless they are in the process of merging.

A friend of me is trying match neuro with a similar comlex score and no usmle. If you ask me later in March I can update you on his match status.

 

[hallowmann]

How about someone with 470-ish comlex, no usmle and no research? A snowball's chance in hell?

I am just finishing my neuro rotation and to my great surprise, I've loved it. I'm still hoping to like my psych rotation more but atm neuro beats everything else I've done. I just know my app is garbage and if I stand a chance at all, it's a long shot.

Do you know anything about the aoa programs or their likelihood of getting shut down post-merger?

Agree with Ibn Alnafis. Also, you could always apply Neuro and Psych. Knew a few people that did this and let the interviews/ROLs make the decision for them.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

How about someone with 470-ish comlex, no usmle and no research? A snowball's chance in hell?

I am just finishing my neuro rotation and to my great surprise, I've loved it. I'm still hoping to like my psych rotation more but atm neuro beats everything else I've done. I just know my app is garbage and if I stand a chance at all, it's a long shot.

Do you know anything about the aoa programs or their likelihood of getting shut down post-merger?

The odds are against you.

 

[68PGunner]

The odds are against you.

There are AOA programs that will take him assuming that he rotates there. Won’t give out names here but he needs to talk to people from his school.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How about someone with 470-ish comlex, no usmle and no research? A snowball's chance in hell?

I am just finishing my neuro rotation and to my great surprise, I've loved it. I'm still hoping to like my psych rotation more but atm neuro beats everything else I've done. I just know my app is garbage and if I stand a chance at all, it's a long shot.

Do you know anything about the aoa programs or their likelihood of getting shut down post-merger?

Desert Regional and Valley Hospital are not going anywhere. I've also heard of a program in Colorado that's AOA and not competitive whatsoever. I have no idea how they are doing on applying though. As for the rest of the programs, I have no clue. I think almost all MSU programs already went ACGME.

As for ACGME, I heard someone applied with similar COMLEX and got 11 ACGME interviews (mostly east coast). If I were you, I'd look into at least doing step 2 and maybe a research rotation. If your school has labs, it shouldn't be too hard to find research. It might also be possible to get clinical if your school has affiliation with some big regional hospital.

 

[Chibucks15]

Any advice for an OMSI thinking neuro in the Midwest? I have a line on a clinical research gig but it's more cards related. Doing average to above average in classes so far at a well known Midwest DO school. I know I have a long way to go but any advice would be awesome. I know research and above average boards will always help but anything specific? There aren't a ton of Neuro programs in the Midwest that aren't at really well known academic centers, which is obviously harder for a DO.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Any advice for an OMSI thinking neuro in the Midwest? I have a line on a clinical research gig but it's more cards related. Doing average to above average in classes so far at a well known Midwest DO school. I know I have a long way to go but any advice would be awesome. I know research and above average boards will always help but anything specific? There aren't a ton of Neuro programs in the Midwest that aren't at really well known academic centers, which is obviously harder for a DO.

Matching programs in the Midwest (if you are from the Midwest) is much easier than matching costal cities.

Do well on boards (including USMLE!), attend neuro conferences, and do 1-2 auditions during beginning of forth year.

Neurology is not competitive but, like most specialities, it's getting more competitive due to the increasing number of American grads. In addition, the prelim data released by ERAS for this match cycle show that the number of American and Canadian applicants to neurology increased by 10% since last year!

 

[68PGunner]

Matching programs in the Midwest (if you are from the Midwest) is much easier than matching costal cities.

Do well on boards (including USMLE!), attend neuro conferences, and do 1-2 auditions during beginning of forth year.

Neurology is not competitive but, like most specialities, it's getting more competitive due to the increasing number of American grads. In addition, the prelim data released by ERAS for this match cycle show that the number of American and Canadian applicants to neurology increased by 10% since last year!

How would you demonstrate interest in Midwest programs if you have been all over the map? Would you advise doing an away rotation at your dream program in the Midwest if your board scores are competitive?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

How would you demonstrate interest in Midwest programs if you have been all over the map? Would you advise doing an away rotation at your dream program in the Midwest if your board scores are competitive?

Yes an away is the best way to do it. Family ties is another way. Also you could personlize your PS for your program of interest.

 

[Chibucks15]

Matching programs in the Midwest (if you are from the Midwest) is much easier than matching costal cities.

Do well on boards (including USMLE!), attend neuro conferences, and do 1-2 auditions during beginning of forth year.

Neurology is not competitive but, like most specialities, it's getting more competitive due to the increasing number of American grads. In addition, the prelim data released by ERAS for this match cycle show that the number of American and Canadian applicants to neurology increased by 10% since last year!

any ideas on where we can find a list of neuro conferences that we can go to? Don't wanna just show up and be clueless as an M1

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

any ideas on where we can find a list of neuro conferences that we can go to? Don't wanna just show up and be clueless as an M1

Only real conference is the AAN that takes place in LA this year. Otherwise they have some subspecialty ones. Just go to the AAN website and sign up as a student (free).

 

[Chibucks15]

Only real conference is the AAN that takes place in LA this year. Otherwise they have some subspecialty ones. Just go to the AAN website and sign up as a student (free).

Can medical students go to these subspecialty ones? I looked it up and it seems more for practicing clinicians. My number 1 goal in life is to avoid making myself look like an idiot

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Can medical students go to these subspecialty ones? I looked it up and it seems more for practicing clinicians. My number 1 goal in life is to avoid making myself look like an idiot

No clue. Find the registration form. It probably says there.