Match day stats

[footfutures]

Where are Temple, CSPM, DMU, Barry, and Western grads matching

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[aglet01]

Here is the information for Barry's Class of 2015

https://www.barry.edu/podiatry/podi...-the-program/hospital-residencies-chosen.html

 

[podkit10]

Nice list from Barry this year... Saw a few heavy hitter programs

 

[SLCpod]

Where are Temple, CSPM, DMU, Barry, and Western grads matching

WYOMING!!!

I am sure the lists will pop up when it is officially sent out by the school.

 

[DrGonz]

Temple is capped at 100 students. 2 schools are allowed to take more students than Temple. During last year's match, Temple and the old OCPM had the largest number of students from pre-2012 in the match. Hopefully they tighten things down like NYCPM and get a little tougher on students who aren't hacking it. However, after hearing the Dean blame his students' previous failures on everyone else (ie the NBPME, COTH, etc)...I'm not holding my breath.

nycpm has been capped at 110 for 4 years I believe.

I honestly feel this years program opening have done a lot for the residency shortage. I see very high match rates between all of the school (which is very awesome) and it is looking like alot of the unmatched were from the past scrambles. . Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I just scanned the messages. But really congrats to everyone this year.

 

[goldstarr]

Just saw the release from AACPM, overall 11 students total from from the 2015 graduating class have gone unmatched (this is not accounting for the 43 other applicants from previous years). Out of that 11, SEVEN, are from KSUCPM. That's more than half the amount for the graduating class of 2015. Kent comes in dead last.

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

 

[goldstarr]

Not official, but from what I can tell Kent is going to come in at 70/79 for c/o 2015 with 3 being ineligible for match/not seeking a residency. I guess that would come out to 70/76= ~92%

Do we know if there are any open spots even left?

There were 7 eligible students from Kent that did not match. So that makes it 69/76= ~ 90%

 

[PeaJay]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

According to what has been posted, there are 11 individuals who remain unmatched from the class of 2015. The majority, 7 are purported from Kent and 3 are purported to be from Scholl. The rest of the schools claim a 100% match rate. Where did we lose 1 person?

 

[SLCpod]

Just saw the release from AACPM, overall 11 students total from from the 2015 graduating class have gone unmatched (this is not accounting for the 43 other applicants from previous years). Out of that 11, SEVEN, are from KSUCPM. That's more than half the amount for the graduating class of 2015. Kent comes in dead last.

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

CSPM has 4 before CRIP and sometimes you might be unlucky and only get 3.

I agree that some schools should be offering more clerks, BUT I also think that there is a lot more that some students can do to get their foot in the door at programs.

 

[heybrother]

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

So what are Kent students doing if they aren't clerking?

 

[ldsrmdude]

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

That may contribute, but plenty of students only have 4 before CRIP. I only had 4, but I think AZPod changed their format and now students have 5 I think.

 

[dtrack22]

So what are Kent students doing if they aren't clerking?

Cheap labor in local clinics/hospitals, I bet

 

[SuperFeisty]

We are required to be back for a month of VA, 3 months of school clinics, and 2 months of senior medicine, mostly either wound care or off service rotations. This leaves most of us 5 clerkship months before interviews.

 

[Torg6]

Just saw the release from AACPM, overall 11 students total from from the 2015 graduating class have gone unmatched (this is not accounting for the 43 other applicants from previous years). Out of that 11, SEVEN, are from KSUCPM. That's more than half the amount for the graduating class of 2015. Kent comes in dead last.

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

Most schools give four or five months for clerkships before CRIP. Personally I did 4 and visited a few other programs while clerking and at school. Honestly I can say four or five is enough. I know you're upset and all but to sit back and blame the school is wrong. Kent may not be the best but it certainly does more than enough to prepare its students for residency.

 

[SandersCalc]

I believe a large part of this is attributed to lack of clerkships Kent offers. I personally only had 4 prior to CRIP. Huge disadvantage. How many did some of you go on before CRIPs?

Most schools give four or five months for clerkships before CRIP. Personally I did 4 and visited a few other programs while clerking and at school. Honestly I can say four or five is enough. I know you're upset and all but to sit back and blame the school is wrong. Kent may not be the best but it certainly does more than enough to prepare its students for residency.

DMU now has 8 full months of clerkships prior to interviews, beginning in May.

 

[dyk343]

The schools who have strong training on campus usually have less clerkships. The schools whose "in house" clinics are weak usually send students off to residency programs to train their students.

Advantage to strong clinics "in house' is by the time you're at a clerkship you have the tools to succeed and hopefully shine.

Disadvantage is clearly less clerkships.

My personal opinion: Having 3rd year students extern is too early. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing (I was a 3rd year too, I know). It's impossible to evaluate how they would be as a resident. After several 3rd year externs, At least in my opinion, they will not be considered as high as 4th year externs in the selection process. It's just too early to tell how they will develop.

 

[josebiwasabi]

I think NYCPM's schedule would be perfect if we had 6 externships, rather than 5. I think something NYCPM did correctly was ensure that all students get 5 months and that they are all pre-CRIP.

 

[I post PRN]

Don't say stuff like, "it's too cold in the OR, that's why I wasn't in there getting the patient ready," while sitting down on your phone, and you will have a decent chance of matching. I blame people, not number of externs or school clinics. My co-resident did his first month out as a student where we matched. He could have had zero rotations after and got his top choice. Don't be a *****. Rant over.

 

[KSUCPM2015]

Don't say stuff like, "it's too cold in the OR, that's why I wasn't in there getting the patient ready," while sitting down on your phone, and you will have a decent chance of matching. I blame people, not number of externs or school clinics. My co-resident did his first month out as a student where we matched. He could have had zero rotations after and got his top choice. Don't be a *****. Rant over.

The issue has nothing to do with numbers of externships. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with I post PRN here. Kent could have 12 externships and it would give a lot of folks 6 more opportunities to demonstrate that they have no business being within 10 feet of a patient unsupervised. Besides, if you do go to Kent, that month at the VA is basically a 7th externship if you actually try during the rotation (although the students on the mandatory rotation do not go to surgery). The senior medicine rotation can be done at University Hospitals, Cleveland or one of 5-7 other locations with a residency program. That's essentially 8 externships with 7 of them almost guaranteed to be before CRIP. My one and only gripe with the actual scheduling of classes at Kent has to do with 3rd year, not 4th year. Our problem is that the school accepts, and, more significantly perhaps, keeps around, students that are objectively not suited to a medical career or have major attitude problems and this is where it shows.

 

[goldstarr]

CSPM has 4 before CRIP and sometimes you might be unlucky and only get 3.

I agree that some schools should be offering more clerks, BUT I also think that there is a lot more that some students can do to get their foot in the door at programs.

Most schools give four or five months for clerkships before CRIP. Personally I did 4 and visited a few other programs while clerking and at school. Honestly I can say four or five is enough. I know you're upset and all but to sit back and blame the school is wrong. Kent may not be the best but it certainly does more than enough to prepare its students for residency.

The issue has nothing to do with numbers of externships. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with I post PRN here. Kent could have 12 externships and it would give a lot of folks 6 more opportunities to demonstrate that they have no business being within 10 feet of a patient unsupervised. Besides, if you do go to Kent, that month at the VA is basically a 7th externship if you actually try during the rotation (although the students on the mandatory rotation do not go to surgery). The senior medicine rotation can be done at University Hospitals, Cleveland or one of 5-7 other locations with a residency program. That's essentially 8 externships with 7 of them almost guaranteed to be before CRIP. My one and only gripe with the actual scheduling of classes at Kent has to do with 3rd year, not 4th year. Our problem is that the school accepts, and, more significantly perhaps, keeps around, students that are objectively not suited to a medical career or have major attitude problems and this is where it shows.

You may have misunderstood, no one is upset and putting blame on Kent or anyone. I sure as heck am not saying "I did not match because I went to Kent or because I only had 4 clerkships" DO not take what I say out of context. There is a reason why Kent has the overwhelming majority of students that did not match, I only offered lower amount of clerkship opportunities as one insight as to how that may possibly be so. We all know the importance of clerking and or visiting programs. For those who want to admit it or not. Due to the structure of our 4th year it can be extremely difficult and almost nearly impossible to visit programs without some sort of penalty or threat to fail a rotation. I'm not saying there aren't opportunities, because there certainly are and I do believe Kent has provided a solid foundation.
It's a lot easier to make certain statements and pass certain judgements depending on what side of the fence you are on.

 

[goldstarr]

And just to add, it appears that of the 11 for 2015, 8 and not 7 are from Kent. So that makes 72% of the unmatched population. Why is that? I noticed someone previously posted many of those people are "undesirable..." etc. Which, in your opinion and some instances may very well be the case... So, does that mean there are no "undesirable" students at the schools with 100% match rates? What could Kent have done differently? Why do they struggle placing students. Please don't say "they should have never been accepted in the first place" because if that were so, many of them would have not passed parts 1 and 2, nor would they have >3.0 gpa. What are some other reasons?

 

[CoffeeMonster]

And just to add, it appears that of the 11 for 2015, 8 and not 7 are from Kent. So that makes 72% of the unmatched population. Why is that? I noticed someone previously posted many of those people are "undesirable..." etc. Which, in your opinion and some instances may very well be the case... So, does that mean there are no "undesirable" students at the schools with 100% match rates? What could Kent have done differently? Why do they struggle placing students. Please don't say "they should have never been accepted in the first place" because if that were so, many of them would have not passed parts 1 and 2, nor would they have >3.0 gpa. What are some other reasons?

How do you know all of these people had a gpa > 3.0?

 

[dtrack22]

And maybe more importantly, where did they rank with a >3.0 GPA?

I ask because we had several students rotate with us last year with 4.0 GPA's from a couple different schools. Nobody in my class at DMU had a 4.0, which I'm sure is not unique. Students at the top of their class everywhere are equally intelligent, "good students", etc. however some schools always someone with a 4.0 and others never do...

Neither class rank nor GPA is all encompassing, but I think combined become a good indicator of didactic success comparative to your classmates and those from other programs.

 

[goldstarr]

How do you know all of these people had a gpa > 3.0?

And maybe more importantly, where did they rank with a >3.0 GPA?

I ask because we had several students rotate with us last year with 4.0 GPA's from a couple different schools. Nobody in my class at DMU had a 4.0, which I'm sure is not unique. Students at the top of their class everywhere are equally intelligent, "good students", etc. however some schools always someone with a 4.0 and others never do...

Neither class rank nor GPA is all encompassing, but I think combined become a good indicator of didactic success comparative to your classmates and those from other programs.

Wouldn't things be better if people actually read a post before they respond to something. I don't know any of these people's grades that's why I said many of them are above the 3.0 mark, I can not say all because I do not know--but I do know there are some. I mentioned grades so that others would not say well "they didn't match because of grades" etc. There's a residency shortage, yes. My only intent is to seek out why such a mismatch with kent in comparison to other programs? Just unlucky? or Is there a solution.

 

[OhEmGee]

My only intent is to seek out why such a mismatch with kent in comparison to other programs? Just unlucky? or Is there a solution.

I think it has to do with the location. 3 large schools (DMU, Chicago, Kent) in the midwest and most are competing for local spots. This year Kent took the hit, last year (or the previous year?)Chicago did. I understand that is not always the case and you will say "Oh so and so went to Kent and ended up in boston", but if you look at the match lists a majority of the programs are local to each school. Branch out and and go after NY programs. There are a ton and no one wants them. That is how NYCPM always manages 100% match.

 

[dtrack22]

Wouldn't things be better if people actually read a post before they respond to something.

Um, that's not the problem

many of them would have not passed parts 1 and 2, nor would they have >3.0 gpa.

then

I don't know any of these people's grades

then

that's why I said many of them are above the 3.0 mark

...

I can not say all because I do not know

.....

but I do know there are some

 

[josebiwasabi]

Wouldn't things be better if people actually read a post before they respond to something. I don't know any of these people's grades that's why I said many of them are above the 3.0 mark, I can not say all because I do not know--but I do know there are some. I mentioned grades so that others would not say well "they didn't match because of grades" etc. There's a residency shortage, yes. My only intent is to seek out why such a mismatch with kent in comparison to other programs? Just unlucky? or Is there a solution.

i don't understand how you can assume many of the unmatched have above a 3.0 gpa unless that's considered a bad gpa at kent. a 3.0 is probably 50th percentile at my school.

 

[KSUCPM2015]

3.0 would be 50th percentile in the c/o 2015 at Kent. The problem is not one problem, it is a combination of a few.

First, it is a fact that the old OCPM admissions office admitted students that objectively could not handle the curriculum. One can't ignore that roughly 20% of the starting class of 2015 is no longer with the school. One also has to remember that those of us who are in c/o 2015 were handed acceptance letters at the interview, and there were those who had not completed all of the admissions requirements by that time (MCAT score being the most common). There are those in the class who never met the minimum stated MCAT requirement despite acceptance being "conditional" on meeting this and other requirements.
Second, prior to Dr. Boike's time at our school, it was extremely easy to appeal and be retained. Multiple students who failed 2 or more classes/rotations were retained by the school. This has been mostly cleaned up recently, but this is something that did occur rather frequently in the old administration. It should be mentioned here, as it has been previously, that our board exams including the new CSPE are substandard compared to those given to the MD/DO students and require overhaul. This on it's own could be its own thread.
Third, I believe that there is a lack of honest evaluation of 4th year students at Kent during school rotations. Essentially, there is no examination over the skills that should be learned in 4th year clinic until after externships are completed. I believe that this is contributing to a lack of clinical competency which puts the bottom tier of Kent students in particular at a disadvantage in externships. I know that not every student at the schools with 100% placement had a 3.0 or even a 2.5, but they matched or placed in MPII. I can only assume that those students that were deficient in GPA were able to make up for this with clinical skill.
Fourth, I believe that in some cases, there were those who rated their own abilities higher than they are. This led to choosing externships at programs that would have been out of reach to these students for any number of reasons. Possibly greater guidance could be beneficial, but certainly honest self-assessment would help as well.
At the end of the day, I am, regrettably, not surprised by those students in my class who did not place into a residency and I can point to an objective reason for each case. It sucks. And I wish it were not so. These are all good people who I wish nothing but the best for. Ultimately, this is the fault of the school for the reasons stated above, and also of these students. I think many of the unmatched in my class would benefit from preceptorship, and hopefully this will make these students more marketable to residency programs.

 

[Hemorrhage]

 

[torontopharm]

.

 

[heybrother]

There's a website called DPMClerkships.org that everyone uses during third year to establish their 3rd/4th year clerkships. We all create profile and then apply for programs for each of the months. The schools all have slightly different numbers of clerkships and 4th year requirements so we may be chasing different months, but in general prime real estate is probably some variation of June-December (people who have already played the game can shoot this down if they'd like, but for now I'm going to pretend everything before January matters). Anyway - you create a profile, you apply for whatever clerkships you want for specific months, and then you potentially receive offers until you fill your calendar. Ideally you'd like to fill your schedule with the programs you want and in the order you want. Soooo... if you want to visit a bunch of New York programs then you will apply for New York clerkships through the website. If you attend NYCPM they'll probably know what local programs are good or suck.

 

[torontopharm]

.

 

[KSUCPM2015]

Thanks @heybrother for the great info! So if anyone can apply to any clerkship spots across USA..assuming that NY residency programs don't have an inherent bias toward picking NYCPM students...wouldn't that make it redundant to attend NYCPM to take advantage of their "100% residency success" given the high living costs? This whole time i was thinking NYCPM is always so successful because only NYCPM kids are able to do their clerkships in NY, so they match at a high rate since a majority of the residency programs are in NY.

I don't think that there's a bias per se, but it's not "redundant" to go there either. The fact is that it is still common for residencies close to a school to end up with mostly residents from that school as these students get more exposure to those programs through mandatory rotations, school events, etc. NY/NJ seems like the exception because there are a heck of a lot of residencies within ~100 miles of NYC, so if you have 30-40 people at NYCPM who want to go there, that still leaves plenty of spots for everyone else. When 30-40 people from Kent, Temple, or Scholl want to stay in Cleveland or Philly or Chicago, that fills up a greater percentage of the positions in those areas quicker. What @heybrother is saying is accurate though, you definitely don't have to go there if you want an NY residency, and if you do you definitely can go elsewhere.

 

[heybrother]

Could anyone match in NY - probably. But NY students are right there - they can visit more programs in town through the convenience of geography. They can talk to their older classmates and find out what programs are good and what programs suck - every program thinks its awesome on CASPR so how do you sort through the crap - you pray for honesty from the people above you or you take a visit. Do the clerkship coordinators at other schools know what programs in NY are good - I don't know, but if their opinion is based on receiving prior feedback from students then they aren't going to have much feedback to go on unless they consistently send students out that way. I know my school doesn't, but we've got a ton of reviews of Regions. So for the purpose of matching in NY I do think that NYCPM has a large advantage. I don't know if the MP2 changes things, but for the Scramble I think NYCPM students were in a great position if they were willing to stay in town - if a program wanted to meet them face to face they were a taxi cab away.

So no - I don't think you can just go to another school and count on NY. If you want the NY city safety net I think you need to go there. I think their match rate was bolstered by knowing more people/programs and having an easier time scrambling into them.

 

[dtrack22]

Anyone can land a NY residency program. Not everyone gets a good program. But anyone can get a NY residency program.

I'd be curious, if you polled 2nd or 3rd year NYCPM students how many would say that they would like to stay in NY for residency? Would that number be higher or lower than the # who actually end up staying (or getting stuck) there? Would be interesting.