M.D./PhD and then DVM

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medicine101

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Has anyone ever completed a MD/PhD as well as a DVM? Or a DVM/PhD and then an MD? I've looked around some and haven't found anything about anyone doing this. I am interested in both allopathic and veterinary medicine and would like to get a PhD in a biophysiology-related discipline as well. Does anyone have any insight on this, or their experiences they had in choosing between an MD and DVM?

Thanks very much,

Kevin

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Has anyone ever completed a MD/PhD as well as a DVM? Or a DVM/PhD and then an MD? I've looked around some and haven't found anything about anyone doing this. I am interested in both allopathic and veterinary medicine and would like to get a PhD in a biophysiology-related discipline as well. Does anyone have any insight on this, or their experiences they had in choosing between an MD and DVM?

Thanks very much,

Kevin

reckon you'd like to find a cure for the bird flu or something.
 
Has anyone ever completed a MD/PhD as well as a DVM? Or a DVM/PhD and then an MD? I've looked around some and haven't found anything about anyone doing this. I am interested in both allopathic and veterinary medicine and would like to get a PhD in a biophysiology-related discipline as well. Does anyone have any insight on this, or their experiences they had in choosing between an MD and DVM?

Thanks very much,

Kevin

A Dr. Doolittle situation huh? :D

I don't know about the PhD but I have met a couple of people who were DVM and then went on to complete an MD. I have no experience with this but all of them unanimously stated it was much harder to get into vet school and much harder to complete vet school.

One of these doctors completed a dermatology residency two years ago. This gal should be playing the lottery nonstop. Getting into vet school and then getting into a dermatology residency, now that's a blessed life ;)
 
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I would imagine most people who contemplate it don't get that far, because at some point you need to work to pay off student loans. Although, I know there are a few DVM/PhD @ my med school who do research (I think on Lyme's).
 
I love what I'm learning in med school, and I really do buy into the whole "lifelong learning" stuff that they pile on you when you apply/get accepted. But this is insane. Your life is only so long, and at some point, you're going to want to actually apply what you've learned. Right?

What you are suggesting is a **** ton of school. Plus a residency.

On the other hand, if you want to live in some rural community, where you can be the family doc, and you can also go check out cattle and ****, then I guess this is the way to go. Or you could work with horse breeders and jockeys, and probably make a **** ton of money. I have never heard of anyone who wanted to do this.

But if you really want to do research, go to a place like Stanford and get a PhD, or an MD/PhD. My uncle is a microbiologist there and doesn't make big money, but he loves his life because Bill Gates gives his lab mycobacterium to work with. You can't put a price tag on that, that's for sure. Can't get into Stanford? There are plenty of places that offer great research opportunities. There's a lot going on at my undergrad, UT-Austin. Any big State school will have a lot of that stuff, although places like Texas and Michigan, and the California system, and a handful of others will probably be the real heavy-hitters for most things, since they have the most money.
 
I would imagine most people who contemplate it don't get that far, because at some point you need to work to pay off student loans. Although, I know there are a few DVM/PhD @ my med school who do research (I think on Lyme's).

Unless of course you get into a DVM/PhD program which pays tuition then go on to MD...(Are there MD/PhD tuition paid programs?)



Although that just sounds like pure torture if you ask me.
 
I would imagine most people who contemplate it don't get that far, because at some point you need to work to pay off student loans. Although, I know there are a few DVM/PhD @ my med school who do research (I think on Lyme's).

If you do get into an MD/PhD program (called MSTP) they cover all tuition, dining and housing fees and pay you a yearly stipend of atleast $20,000, but of course they are really competitive programs to get into. I figured that if anyone were to complete an MD/PhD and then a DVM it would take about 12-13 years at full pace. I'm not not saying that im actually gonna do that haha, I was just thinking about it and the possible benefits of it. You would also be able to do research during that time so it's not like you wouldn't really be able to apply your learning until your done. If you've got everything else in order I suppose it wouldn't be too bad.
 
If you do get into an MD/PhD program (called MSTP) they cover all tuition, dining and housing fees and pay you a yearly stipend of atleast $20,000, but of course they are really competitive programs to get into. I figured that if anyone were to complete an MD/PhD and then a DVM it would take about 12-13 years at full pace. I'm not not saying that im actually gonna do that haha, I was just thinking about it and the possible benefits of it. You would also be able to do research during that time so it's not like you wouldn't really be able to apply your learning until your done. If you've got everything else in order I suppose it wouldn't be too bad.

MD/PhD and MSTP are not synonymous. The MSTP is a specific federally-funded program. Not all MD/PhD programs are funded. In the unfunded ones, you're on your own for medical school, but will get the standard support for PhD students during the graduate years.

The funded ones generally cover the tuition and fees and give you stipend to live off of. This stipend is not $20k in live-the-good life money. It'll be a bare minimum to provide you a place to stay, food to eat, clothes to wear, and just enough entertainment to keep you sane.

For 4ish years of the 11+ you would be in school, you would be doing research. The rest would be spend in class learning to be a physician/veterinarian. It's difficult enough to be good at being a physician-scientist. I can't see adding a third profession as making things better.

Figure out what you want to do and why and then figure out how to get there. Something about the US medical system makes people think they need a degree to wipe their butt right. Odds are whatever you want to do can be done by getting formal training in a single profession (or maybe two) and just learning the difference on your own time...
 
Getting an MD w/o residency is pretty pointless (even for the nonclinicians) since you can't even be licensed. In most states, you're not allowed to take step 3 without completing an internship. Assuming you do get into an MSTP program or a fully funded DVM/PhD program, and assuming you'll do the shortest residency, you're looking at ATLEAST 14 years.

If you're seriously contemplating this, I don't think you have a clue about what you want. I can't think of one logical reason why someone would want to get all three degrees deliberately.
 
.....why on earth would someone want to not be able to secure an actual job until they are in their late thirties and be saddled with $300,000 to half a million in debt, unless you get lucky enough to get a semi funded program for some of it? 13 or so years of intensive schooling and little time for anything else? Yikes...
 
I can't fathom why anyone would want all 3 unless their actual desire is to be a perpetual student (I love learning, but at some point...)

However, it could be funded for less than 300k if one can get into a funded joint MD/PhD program, then obtained IS residence status in a 'cheaper' vet school state, and managed to gain admissions to the school, the total debt pool could probably be kept to under 100k. However, I would think adcoms would question someone who seems to be collecting degrees rather than pursueing a direct path to a career.
 
What you are thinking about doing has been done before. There was a woman working on her D.V.Sc at the Ontario Veterinary. I believe that she is currently working on her PhD. Prior to this she obtained her DVM and MD degrees. There is an article written about her achievements that I have posted below......... she says that her reasoning for this huge undertaking is “Because I don't have enough ‘Doctors' behind my name.” Everyone has different goals and different reasons for those goals. If this is what you want and you can make it work financially, then go for it. If you have any questions you could probably contact her.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/atguelph/06-02-22/profile.shtml
 
On the inverse of going from a DVM to an MD, I have two friends who got their MDs, practiced for a few years and then decided a DVM was more to their liking. But no I cannot say I know of anyone with all three. One is now boarded in radiology in both fields! He did the army MD thing, then after retiring from the military went to vet school and THEN did a boarding in vet radio. Amazing guy. He like I will never retire, but drop dead in a clinic somewhere. I will be a DVM, MBA, MS, is that close enough? :p I just do not have the interest for primate medicine, but a PhD is a (real) outside possibility.:eek:
 
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This may be a stupid question, but while observing I shadowed a vet orthopedic specialist whose business card listed only DVSci. I knew he was from Guelph, but just assumed that was what the degree was called in Canada. Is this not true? Now I am embarrassed to ask! :oops:
 
I think if you want to do research into a zoonotic disease your best bet would be a DVM/PhD or DVM/MPH. But in all reality there are vets working on animals models of human disease and there are MDs working on animal models of human disease. Vets would also be working on animal models of animal disease. The DVM/PhD route is probably shorter since you don't have to do a residency, but there is usually less funding and fewer spots (due to fewer vet schools). It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to do it all. I think you can figure out a way to get to your goals without getting so many degrees--especially if your goal is research. Find a couple of people in what you're interested in doing, and email them. State your goals and ask for their advice.

Also, probably the biggest difference in vet school and human med school is that vet school is focused on comparative medicine. In human med, you learn a lot about 1 species. In vet med, you compare across a wide range of species. I have friends who have been through medical school (but I've never sat in on a class) and I'm obviously in vet school, but that's what I'd say the big difference is.
 
I know there is at least 1 vet at my university's small animal teaching hospital who is currently in medical school. A friend of mine goes to medical school told me there were quite a few vets as well. So its not really that rare for a vet to have a medical degree as well but for a MD/PHD and a DVM I think those guys/gals will be quite rare.

Personally when I complete vet school I will want to enrol in medical school after a few years of practicing as a vet. I just have this burning curiosity to know whats the difference between animal medicine and human medicine...
 
I just have this burning curiosity to know whats the difference between animal medicine and human medicine...

Animals come to a hospital to get their nails clipped.

Humans don't get muzzled at hospitals if they are jerks.

:D
 
Animals come to a hospital to get their nails clipped.

Humans don't get muzzled at hospitals if they are jerks.

:D


ummm they definitely whip out the human version of the cat bag for little kids!
 
This may be a stupid question, but while observing I shadowed a vet orthopedic specialist whose business card listed only DVSci. I knew he was from Guelph, but just assumed that was what the degree was called in Canada. Is this not true? Now I am embarrassed to ask! :oops:

Vet schools in Canada give DVM degress, just like the states. A DVSc is a post-professional degree for individuals who already hold a DVM degree (or equivalent). More info here: http://www.uoguelph.ca/registrar/calendars/graduate/current/gradprog/vets-dvsc.shtml
 
I realize I'm bumping a really old thread here, but I'm interested as to whether or not anyone has any additional information on this? Specifically for DVM to MD/PhD and how adcoms might look at that.
 
Not sure what addition information you're looking for. I personally knew a woman who was both a DVM and MD and people have provided many examples of success in acquiring both degrees. If you're willing to put in the enormous time and financial commitment, it's do-able. I imagine the adcoms (on both sides of the coin) would want to know why the heck you want to make the switch.
 
it is really waste of time and federal educational resources for a vet to do MD. I mean what is the purpose? Just to experience the difference of vet and MD?
 
It actually has been recommended by Dean Emeritus Bennie Osburn at UCDavis in a journal piece written in 2009 for the OIE on veterinary education. Have also seen praise for DVMs who have gone on to acquire MDs as exemplary on the ONE HEALTH INITIATIVE website. The One Health movement is pure intellectual sophistry if anyone understands the basics of epistemiology and the economics of knowledge. It is the Glass Bead Game of veterinary academia and the AVMA.

Robert J Nix
 
It actually has been recommended by Dean Emeritus Bennie Osburn at UCDavis in a journal piece written in 2009 for the OIE on veterinary education. Have also seen praise for DVMs who have gone on to acquire MDs as exemplary on the ONE HEALTH INITIATIVE website. The One Health movement is pure intellectual sophistry if anyone understands the basics of epistemiology and the economics of knowledge. It is the Glass Bead Game of veterinary academia and the AVMA.

Robert J Nix

I think they must have meant the give-schools-and-government-more-money-while-you-become-overeducated initiative.
 
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