Medical Low-ish GPA/High MCAT Applicant - How should I move forward?

[TheBoneDoctah]

Hello,

I am a late-blooming first time applicant in my mid-20s with no II looking for some advice on how to proceed. I applied to 30-some schools from USNews unranked to T20 (AMCAS primary in July, MD secondaries in September; AACOMAS primary+secondaries in November). Late, I know, but I was unsure of my competitiveness until I received my MCAT score. 4 Rs from T20 so far, 1 T40, 1 hold from SUNY Upstate.

First, I'd like to share my stats:
-3.53 cGPA/3.45 sGPA (upward trend, particularly in sciences where my low grades were in early level classes); Retook Ochem Lab 1 and Ochem 2 (C to As in both)
-518 MCAT (129/127/131/131) taken late June; first attempt
-Graduated in 2018 from renowned state school (started 2012, took a gap year after sophomore, ended up double majoring+minor in various bio sciences; 5 year of course work)+received medical assisting cert following UG from local CC to gain clinical exposure (4.0 GPA "post-bacc")
-Ongoing activities in research, clinical, and volunteering in two orgs as described below
-4 pubs on app (2 first, 2 second, +1 first author submitted post-review revisions; at least 3 more authorships on the way including an additional first author); Started research in 2018
-Several posters and presentations (2 more since AMCAS)
-Clinical experience as a nursing assistant (ongoing, started 2019) and medical assistant (>1000 hrs combined)
-Clinical volunteering (>300 hrs), ended post-COVID
-Non Clinical Volunteering (one org, projected 400 hrs, started June 2020)+one new volunteering activity not on AMCAS started December 2020 in which I have already made a tangible impact.
-150+ hrs shadowing in multiple specialities, last in 2019.
-Only collegiate EC is social club (no leadership), though I am a musician. I participated in several blues/funk music projects that aren't part of some organization (mentioned this + one other hobby on app)
-LGBT (mentioned on diversity/gap year essays)
-no IA

These potential red flags in my app seem possible: 1) low GPA, 2) limited experiences while attending college+ gap year, 3) protracted college education, 4) Mentioning being queer on diversity apps (concerns about prejudiced app reviewer), 5) (maybe) LOR, 6) Unremarkable leadership (I am a senior lab member with project management and mentoring responsibilities; I identified an area of need in my AMCAS non-clinical and addressed it with a longitudinal and coordinated plan).


Now, to why I posted this thread.
I am operating under the assumption that I will not be accepted. Some have mentioned that it may be too early to be concerned, but I want to plan ahead so that I am not screwed in case I have to reapply. I see three paths, and I would like some feedback:
1) Continue what I am doing (research, nursing assistant, volunteering in two orgs).
2) Continue what I am doing minus research (this would open up my schedule in desirable ways and allow me to earn more money, travel and potentially do more clinical work).
3) Enroll in an SMP or 1-year Masters (Currently looking at Columbia MS in Nutrition, Cinci SMP, and Temple linkage; open to suggestions).

I have not submitted an update letters (would only include new pub, new volunteering, and new presentations). Should I?

Thank you and happy New Year!

Edit: corrected research starting year from 2020 to 2018

So from what I read and understand from your post and situation, here is my advice and some questions I still have:

When exactly, how many, and what courses did you take for your "post-bac?"
How many hours of non-clinical volunteering did you have when you APPLIED and COMPLETED NOW?

The biggest issue here that I see (from what I understand from your app at least) is that you are drastically overestimating how competitive you are and your school list is top-heavy. IMO, you shouldn't even be looking at T20 schools (or caring for that matter what the rank is) as you just need to get into ANY medical school. It's fine to throw your application at some T20, but you need to make sure you have applied to 95% of schools in your ballpark (which aren't top 20). Your long college career doesn't matter at all. It took like 7 years for me to get through undergrad and it was never brought up in interviews. I think overall your ECs are good, but "projected 400 hours" doesn't really mean much (and is why I was asking how many you had when you originally applied).

It is getting really late in the cycle now and you should start to have a plan for reapplication. If your GPA is 3.53 and you don't have a "REAL" post-bac meaning a year AFTER graduating from undergrad where you took upper-level science courses, then I would do that. I would take a year to log a solid 3.9+ GPA with a year of courses and work on increasing your non-clinical volunteer hours. By doing this, your GPA, MCAT, research, and clinical/non-clinical volunteering would be solid. If you STILL did not get interviews, your red flag is likely either your LOR or your essays.

The "post bacc" was right after graduating in 2018 to gain clinical exposure (thought I'd only be able to do PA). I scored a 3.8 taking almost entirely upper level courses at my university during years 4 and 5, and because I took many of the courses traditionally associated with formal post bacc, I don't really see what a post-bacc could do. I have so many credits that my uGPA is essentially resistant to movement. Would an SMP or Masters not be better considering?

My nonclinical was weak when I applied. A lot of what I did before I did not put because it was too scattered (hours at various orgs here and there) or a bit too politically left to list for something like med school. I was also in a now-defunct fraternity (which I left before it became defunct due to becoming incongruent with the house values). I am in track to complete the hours for the org I listed (over 200 now) and I completed my hours for an outdoor recreation club (1000). For reapp, I will also have >100 hrs with an organization in which I mentor high schoolers from single parent households, which is very personal to me and will flesh out my story since my parents divorced right as I entered high school.

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[Goro]

Agree with my wise colleague.

OP, what were your year by year GPAs?

You should have had some DO schools on your list as a reinventor.

As long as you didn't apply to Loma Linda or LUCOM, being queer shouldn't be a deal breaker, UNLESS, you have no service to LGBT communities, and reviewers are thinking that you might be using this like other dishonest applicants do. Sorry to mention this, but here are people who try to game the URM status, You'd be surprised how many applicants discover thier Latin or Native American heritage upon applying to med school.

Freshman - 3.3
Sophomore- 2.9
Junior - 3.2
Senior (years 4 and 5) - 3.8, 75% upper level science courses (60 science credits)
"post bacc" - 4.0 (28 credits)

I see where you are coming from Goro. I do not have service to queer communities, but my fiancée/partner of 4 years is openly transgender (same sex, opposite gender). We plan to marry sometime April-June. My mom, a physician, is convinced that disclosing this was fatal.

I did apply to 4 DO schools, though I made the mistake of doing so late.

Thank you for your replies. I hope this info helps.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

School list if it helps, OH resident. I will preface by saying that I prioritized location and NOT rank. I seek to serve urban communities, which is supported by my experiences and my background:

UCinci
Case
OSU
U Illinois
Rush
Ros Frank
Northwestern
SUNY Downstate (lived in NYC until college)
SUNY Upstate (hold)
NYMC
Stonybrook
Buffalo
Einstein
Cornell
Columbia
Hofstra (R)
Ucla (R)
Ucsf (R)
Yale
Penn State
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
EVMS
Michigan
Brown
Pitt (R)
USC (R)




OUHCOM
PCOM
NYCOM
LECOM

Why do you keep saying years 4 and 5 for senior year?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

On Amcas, years 4 and 5 are lumped as "Senior."

But are you referring to the post-bac as year 5? and then did ANOTHER post bac? I am just confused on your timeline

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Apologies for the confusion. Here is a chronological list. Dates are when the years "began".

AU 2012- Freshman
AU 2013- Soph
AU 2014- Gap
AU 2015- Junior (got my act together around half way through)
AU 2016- Year 4 Senior A
Au 2017- Year 5 Senior B (graduate May 2018 with double major and minor)
Au 2018- Medical Assisting "post bacc" (certified Au 2019)

Almost all ECs earned following UG graduation in May 2018.

Okay, so for medical assisting post-bac, what classes did you take? I am just trying to make these courses you took will be looked upon as a post-bac in terms of what we advise students to complete. For example, a Master's is NOT going to help you get in even if you call it a post-bac. So if this is what it was, then it may not help.

I understand what you are saying about this not being an ideal post-bacc. Really, I did it to get clinical exposure for PA school, and "post bacc" is the only categorization that fit the courses I took chronologically. I did not take for GPA repair. Ultimately, I earned experiences that connected me with my current clinical employer and strengthened my conviction to become a physician rather than a PA. I acknowledge, though, that this program is not a substitute for a hard science post bacc/SMP/GPA. Rather, it was a supplement that just happened to boost my non science GPA a tad.

The curriculum consisted of classes that introduce one to medical assisting and clinical fundamentals in that field (went over bedside manner, insurance, medical coding, lab tests and results, med term, basic pharmacology and drug names, clinical procedures). Many of the topics are foundational for future medical study (eg reference ranges and common tests)
and I could definitely discuss what I learned. Classes were in person, and more rigorous than perhaps what one would assume about community college medical Assisting classes. My partner is in nursing school at OSU, and her curriculum is extremely comparable actually if that serves as a reference. Of course, I understand that all of that can't be inferred from just looking at the class names and such.

I want to reiterate that while I am very seriously considering GPA repair, I have received extremely mixed feedback on whether that's the best course of action or whether I need it. My current understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that a post-bacc is for career changers or people with little coursework in upper level science courses. I do not believe I fit in either of those categories. I have 200 credits, of which 100 or so are BCPM (the last 60 of which reflect my upward trajectory).

Because of this, it seems that an SMP or 1 year masters would fit better. The Columbia program, for example, offers an MS with primarily BCPM credits, thesis based research, and clinical work featuring nutirition (something that would build off my ECs and a publication I have in nutrition immunology; also reestablish NY residency). The UC program is a more traditional SMP, but it would keep me in Ohio and seems to have a more collegial rather than cutthroat environment at most SMPs. The Temple program offers a guaranteed acceptance with >3.6 and >510. I am interested in hearing what other programs offer perks like these three, as well as input that could help me ascertain whether they align with my goals of becoming a physician.

Most importantly, I want to know if that course-based route is even necessary or whether my GPA is compensated for by my continued activities. Thinking about the additional costs and lost income makes me feel a bit queezy TBH since I have been very productive while also saving money.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I don't deal in projected or hypothetical hours so when you apply, make sure you have your hours.

That said, it would really help your future med school application if you actually WORKED as a medical assistant for a year (saying this as I screen applications for my adcom). If you are concerned about finances and geography, I would work full-time in a clinical setting with your education. Otherwise, if you go to a formal postbac program, I would find out the conditions for a guaranteed interview (I don't know about acceptance) at the home school supporting the postbac and how many people have met those conditions in the last 3 years.

Also considering your LGBTQ+ status, have you found a community of premed/med students? AMSA chapter officers at the schools on your list should be able to direct you to the right people currently in school. There may be other affiliation groups that exist.

 

[Goro]

I see what you're saying and it's something I thought about a lot. When I started the MA program, I did not foresee having the opportunities in research that I had (I was very situationally fortunate). My logic was that even though I am certified as a medical assistant, I was unable to find opportunities that were not mutually exclusive with my research (both are M-F day time jobs). Actually, when this conflict was becoming apparent, I considered not continuing the MA program, but a physician mentor advised me to stay in it.

Since getting my cert in MA, I have been working part time as a nursing assistant in a medical center since my schedule there is flexible and allows me to continue research simultaneously. I mentioned that in my application. I got the job actually through networking done in the MA program. Further, the skills I learned in my MA externship were translatable to the direct patient care and clinical skills I provide as a nursing assistant.

I don't regret this path either because both experiences, while not medical assisting, have been enriching in ways that medical assisting alone would not have been. I am entering my second year as a nursing assistant and my third year as a researcher. Had I discontinued research for medical assisting, I would only have had 2 pubs and limited experience. Is my current clinical experience not sufficient?

If I am gathering correctly, are you recommending either doing GPA repair or working as an MA in lieu of my current responsibilities?

Read my post on reinvention for pre-meds.

Your year of medical assisting school is not going to count in my book as reinvention. That's you only have a single good senior year of grades, and that's not enough data points to show reinvention, especially for MD schools.

 

[Goro]

I would also like to reiterate that I did not do my medical assisting for the sake of reinvention nor am I trying to pass it off as a crown jewel of reinvention. It was simply a means to an end to get clinical experience, and I happened to get a 4.0, which I reported as post bacc because it was the only classification that fit.

I believe the argument for my reinvention lies in my last two years of college ("Senior year") and the activities I have done since graduating (MCAT, clinical volunteering, clinical employment, research).

Bad essays and or LORs might be an issue.

 

[Goro]

For essays, feedback I received was positive and many revisions were done accordingly, though I lack insider feedback since I don't have 6k to shell for consulting. If you have any suggestions on resources for gaining more feedback, I would greatly appreciate it. For LOR, I admittedly asked for one natural science writer to write mine two years after taking the class, so that could have been weaker. I believe at least 3 or 4 of the other 5 were strong though.

Could timing have been an issue as well since many secondaries were only complete late September (CASPER delivered near the end of the month, scored top quartile though)?

Late timing may have been an issue, as was the older LOR.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

It’s also better to have letters you KNOW are strong rather than loading them up with mediocre letters for the sake of just having letters.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Can you really know if it's submitted confidentially? I'm not one to assume unless I know something for certain. The 3 or 4 that I said were strong, the writers outlined for me before writing. I requested strong letters from people I had good relationships with.

I recommend only using letters where you knew the letter writer very well, did very well in their course or lab, and asked if they can write you a STRONG letter of rec. you should also try and meet with your letter writer in person (I know this is hard right now) ahead of time.

 

[Goro]

I greatly appreciate all the feedback. Now that we have discussed the hypotheticals, I'd like to recircle back to the purpose of this post which is to figure out what to do going foward rather than analyzing what went wrong.

1. From what I am gathering, GPA repair seems to be the biggest issue. Should I look into an SMP or something else? This could also address the science LOR point, thought it would stagger my application again to have the GPA and activities reflected.

2. By next cycle, I will have completed my projections. If GPA repair doesn't seem necessary, should I more or less continue what I'm doing or is a major change necessary?

Edit: follow-up to 2. Need I reapply, would it be wise to not project any hours?

SMP might be worth it. You're still fine for DO.

2) Continues as planned. Love what you do and do what you love.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Are you interested in DO at all?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I am interested in DO from a philosophical standpoint. Through shadowing physicians, talking to patients, and my own reading/experience (PCP is DO), I've gathered that OMT has utilility as a therapeutic, diagnostic, and trust-building tool. I also like that the osteopathic education seems to emphasize building relationships with patients and community.

I had some practical concerns that led to me not applying DO initially. In particular, I was concerned that osteopathic education pigeonholes many into family med, and I was not too keen on having to take both USMLE and COMLEX to be competitive for allopathic fellowships. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've gathered that the merger will address this issue and expand opportunities for osteopathic physicians.

A lingering concern I have is that many DO schools have limited opportunities for working with urban populations and research. MD schools seem to have a major advantage in this category, if not only because of their locations.

However, if I get into one of my DO schools of interest, I will more than happily accept. OU HCOM actually out ranks many of my MD schools if I am admitted to the Dublin campus. If I do not get accepted anywhere, I intend to expand my reach among DO schools and apply earlier next cycle. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I will definitely add Touro and Midwestern at the very least.

Sounds like a good plan. One thing to note, although the things you say are true about the OMT, many/most DOs don’t ever use OMT in practice. DO schools are medical school and can get you into any specialty you want. There are some DO schools that prefer you go into primary care, but the vast majority don’t and DOs go into all specialties.

 

[Goro]

Would you happen to have any suggestions on specific SMP programs with good rates of success? Hard to find good info on this subject.

Nope. That's your job