Looking for advice Non-traditional DO Schools

[Hopefulone111]

So here it goes...basically I'm looking to get some information from people who may be in the same boat

Well to start off I'm just now getting back to school after a not so great start to college ...failed many classes, dismissed, etc due to depression, family problems and such

I'm now taking classes at a community college and moving this summer, I'm looking to complete my degree at an online university or continue taking community college courses and hope some college will accept me...I know it would take straight A+'s from now on, high MCAT, plus a miracle I'm guessing... I'd just like to see if there is ANY chance at all I can still pursue my dream

My questions are:

Is it better to complete my degree at an online college? Or continue taking classes at a community college and hope to finish at a 4-year school? Where can I go from here?

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[aspiringdoc09]

So here it goes...basically I'm looking to get some information from people who may be in the same boat

Well to start off I'm just now getting back to school after a not so great start to college ...failed many classes, dismissed, etc due to depression, family problems and such

I'm now taking classes at a community college and moving this summer, I'm looking to complete my degree at an online university or continue taking community college courses and hope some college will accept me...I know it would take straight A+'s from now on, high MCAT, plus a miracle I'm guessing... I'd just like to see if there is ANY chance at all I can still pursue my dream

My questions are:

Is it better to complete my degree at an online college? Or continue taking classes at a community college and hope to finish at a 4-year school? Where can I go from here?

Community college then to 4-year. Most med schools don't accept online coursework, so you will be wasting your time getting an online BS degree. They don't accept prerequisites that are taken online. Many people have done it before, so you won't be the only one trying. Just get your life straight and do well from now on. Adcoms understand how things don't work out at first...you're human and have flaws. We all do. You believe in yourself and you can accomplish any goal you set. IF YOU WANT IT BAD ENOUGH, YOU WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN NO MATTER HOW MANY HOOPS YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH. I am still only a pre-med (applying this year), so hopefully more experienced people will chime in to give you advice as well. This forum can be your haven (not heaven-it will never be that) or hell depending on who you talk to, so keep that in mind. Overall, I'm glad I found it. I wish you the VERY BEST! GOOD LUCK!

 

[theseeker4]

So here it goes...basically I'm looking to get some information from people who may be in the same boat

Well to start off I'm just now getting back to school after a not so great start to college ...failed many classes, dismissed, etc due to depression, family problems and such

I'm now taking classes at a community college and moving this summer, I'm looking to complete my degree at an online university or continue taking community college courses and hope some college will accept me...I know it would take straight A+'s from now on, high MCAT, plus a miracle I'm guessing... I'd just like to see if there is ANY chance at all I can still pursue my dream

My questions are:

Is it better to complete my degree at an online college? Or continue taking classes at a community college and hope to finish at a 4-year school? Where can I go from here?

First, have you taken care of your depression and family issues? That is your number one priority right now, not only for your personal health but also to be able to attain your goals.

Assuming everything is under control now, how many classes did you take before, and what were the grades? Simple overall GPA and number of credit hours, plus whether you took any science or math classes, and their grades, with number of credit hours would help. We need to know that to be able to tell you how much you will need to do to fix things.

Do NOT take online classes. Especially if you are trying to demonstrate you can handle the academic rigors necessary for medical school, you want to show you can do the work in a traditional classroom. Community college is fine for getting started, and if you were dismissed before, probably necessary to gain admission to a 4-year university, but online classes won't fly.

Were you simply dismissed due to failing too many classes? Or were you dismissed due to cheating/something else?

Talk to admissions offices at various 4-year universities you might attend, and see what you would need to gain admission. Once you find that out, take as many classes at the CC as you need to, preferably ones that will transfer to the university so you wont' have to re-take them there, and get into the university.

Depending on your actual grades from your previous college experience, you may be ready to apply as soon as you get your degree, or you may have several years of repair to do. This we can't advise you on unless we know your numbers.

You are right, keep all A's, or as close as you can manage, especially at the CC. Don't give up hope, as if this is what you really want, and you are willing to put in years of effort if necessary, you can be a doctor. Be absolutely sure, though, that you are willing to do the work, as putting in a half-hearted effort will only lead to failure. You might have a better chance than you think; post your grades from your previous school for us to advise you.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I kind of disagree with the online coursework but there are a couple gigantic caveats. First, you basically have to take your prereqs in a brick and mortar university. If you take CC credits, you have to follow up with upper levels at a university, and a decent amount. This isn't true for everyone, but if you decide to do an online program, it is a must. You need to prove you can handle tough sciences.

Second, you have to find an online program through a reputable four year institution, and it can't indicate that it is online. This shouldn't be an issue as most classes don't necessarily indicate that they are online on the transcript. But if you go this route, it is very important you get a good amount of classroom classes at a university. Not only for LORs, but also to prove you can handle it. And when I say reputable, I don't mean "our online college is the best." I mean a state funded university. For example, here in Iowa, I am 95% positive that University of Iowa, Iowa State University, and University of Northern Iowa all offer online programs. Numerous other private ones may be acceptable, however I wouldn't risk it.

This doesn't apply if you are military and physically have no other choice. But having said all of this, I also want to make it clear that this is a distant second to a four year in a four university. This route shouldn't be done unless it is just not feasible to do anything else. Being a nontrad, I can see an argument, but if there is any possible way to physically go to a university, you should do that. And that means changing work schedules, finding another job, whatever. If it is possible in any way, it is much better.

 

[Hopefulone111]

I have worked through all my issues and ready to get going! I'm moving this summer so cannot finish at my regular 4-year...but they had told me I could do 12 semesters at a CC and get into the general studies program...I have a horrible GPA as of now 1.586 at my 4-year uni.

Before I started college I took some university courses got a C+ in intro bio (senior year of high school thats when problems started to happen)

Started College 2005 and thought I should repeat that course but got an F in intro bio instead (things started to do downhill from here)

2005-summer 2011

calc2 F
molecular bio F
Calc1 F
Calc1 F
Easier Calc C+
Chemistry W
Physics W
Chemistry F
After being dismissed I was allowed to take classes in the Fall of '09 (usually they just allowed summer) but I blew that and Withdrew again

Summer 2011 Molecular W
Physics C
Microbio Lab C
Chemistry F

Its not that I don't understand the material/science I just could not focus on any thing that required me to think! I did a bit better in non science courses but not much overall in the C range, D in some Psych courses, A's only in 1 credit elective courses

I took Chemistry at the CC in 2008 and got a D but they allowed me to go onto Inorganic Chemistry (2nd semester gen chem) which I got an A in

Since I will be moving I cant fix my 1.586 GPA at my starting school so I'am hoping the classes I'll take at the CC will be okay for admission to a 4-year...so confused I need to take care of my degree plans first but still want to keep in mind if all goes well that maybe I can apply to a DO in the next 2-3 years

Also any recs for CC/4 year schools in Chicago? I'm afraid even with taking a semester at a CC in Chicago a 4-year will not accept me...tired of wasting my life and want to get done soon as possible! I may have an online program such as University of Phoenix as my only option. I have 67 credits as of now

 

[theseeker4]

I have worked through all my issues and ready to get going! I'm moving this summer so cannot finish at my regular 4-year...but they had told me I could do 12 semesters at a CC and get into the general studies program...I have a horrible GPA as of now 1.586 at my 4-year uni.

Before I started college I took some university courses got a C+ in intro bio (senior year of high school thats when problems started to happen)

Started College 2005 and thought I should repeat that course but got an F in intro bio instead (things started to do downhill from here)

2005-summer 2011

calc2 F
molecular bio F
Calc1 F
Calc1 F
Easier Calc C+
Chemistry W
Physics W
Chemistry F
After being dismissed I was allowed to take classes in the Fall of '09 (usually they just allowed summer) but I blew that and Withdrew again

Summer 2011 Molecular W
Physics C
Microbio Lab C
Chemistry F

Its not that I don't understand the material/science I just could not focus on any thing that required me to think! I did a bit better in non science courses but not much overall in the C range, D in some Psych courses, A's only in 1 credit elective courses

I took Chemistry at the CC in 2008 and got a D but they allowed me to go onto Inorganic Chemistry (2nd semester gen chem) which I got an A in

Since I will be moving I cant fix my 1.586 GPA at my starting school so I'am hoping the classes I'll take at the CC will be okay for admission to a 4-year...so confused I need to take care of my degree plans first but still want to keep in mind if all goes well that maybe I can apply to a DO in the next 2-3 years

Also any recs for CC/4 year schools in Chicago? I'm afraid even with taking a semester at a CC in Chicago a 4-year will not accept me...tired of wasting my life and want to get done soon as possible! I may have an online program such as University of Phoenix as my only option. I have 67 credits as of now

DO is definitely the most practical path. You will need to talk to universities in the Chicago area about how to transfer in. Though at least a semester, and maybe a few, would almost certainly be necessary, I would be shocked if you couldn't find ANY university in the Chicago area that would accept you, after demonstrating strong coursework.

First, make sure your move won't hurt your grades. Take a semester off if you need the time, that would be better than more low grades. Next, find what 4-year school(s) would be best for you to transfer to in Chicago (sorry, not personally familiar with the schools in the area) and choose a CC based on ability to transfer classes from the CC to the university. Plan out what classes you need when you transfer, and how many semesters it will take. Pick a major that you are interested in, and re-take every previous low-grade class you can to take advantage of grade replacement.

I don't know how many credits you will need, but if you take a full course load every semester, you could be ready to apply in 3 years. The bright side of all of this is, if you stay focused and are truly ready to get A's in every class, you could have a near 4.0 GPA for DO schools by the time you apply, if you re-take everything. Even if you don't replace everything, you can have a competitive GPA within a few years. Good luck!

ETA: U of Phoenix is not a good option. Online work sponsored by a brick-and-mortar school may be acceptable, but you don't want a for-profit school to be the source of your new good grades, if you want your application to be taken seriously. Check with some DO schools about what online schools they will accept coursework from, but even then going from very low grades at a traditional school to all A's at an online school may make them decide to pass your application up.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I have worked through all my issues and ready to get going! I'm moving this summer so cannot finish at my regular 4-year...but they had told me I could do 12 semesters at a CC and get into the general studies program...I have a horrible GPA as of now 1.586 at my 4-year uni.

Before I started college I took some university courses got a C+ in intro bio (senior year of high school thats when problems started to happen)

Started College 2005 and thought I should repeat that course but got an F in intro bio instead (things started to do downhill from here)

2005-summer 2011

calc2 F
molecular bio F
Calc1 F
Calc1 F
Easier Calc C+
Chemistry W
Physics W
Chemistry F
After being dismissed I was allowed to take classes in the Fall of '09 (usually they just allowed summer) but I blew that and Withdrew again

Summer 2011 Molecular W
Physics C
Microbio Lab C
Chemistry F

Its not that I don't understand the material/science I just could not focus on any thing that required me to think! I did a bit better in non science courses but not much overall in the C range, D in some Psych courses, A's only in 1 credit elective courses

I took Chemistry at the CC in 2008 and got a D but they allowed me to go onto Inorganic Chemistry (2nd semester gen chem) which I got an A in

Since I will be moving I cant fix my 1.586 GPA at my starting school so I'am hoping the classes I'll take at the CC will be okay for admission to a 4-year...so confused I need to take care of my degree plans first but still want to keep in mind if all goes well that maybe I can apply to a DO in the next 2-3 years

Also any recs for CC/4 year schools in Chicago? I'm afraid even with taking a semester at a CC in Chicago a 4-year will not accept me...tired of wasting my life and want to get done soon as possible! I may have an online program such as University of Phoenix as my only option. I have 67 credits as of now

take two years at a CC if you have to. take everything but the sciences. Maybe take a couple prereqs but save most for the 4 year. Do well in the 2 years at a CC and you should have no problem transferring to a chicago school. And it doesn't matter which one as long as it is a 4 year. and i know you want to get done, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. just calm down and realize that it isn't going to happen tomorrow.

and don't do university of phoenix unless you don't want to go to med school. like i said, the only chance you have for online classes is a program put on by a brick and mortar. Not trying to be mean or throw a wrench in your plans, but numerous adcoms have come on the board, many students have been told by med schools, and i have been told by DO schools that degrees from university of phoenix will not be accepted. It would suck to have to do it all over again after you paid UofP's ridiculous tuition.

 

[Hopefulone111]

Would they look at universities like Phoenix on campus classes or Devry?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Would they look at universities like Phoenix on campus classes or Devry?

no. it isn't the fact that it is online that makes them doubt the education. it is the fact that these universities are known to be degree factories. basically anyone who goes will get a degree. and i have a friend that did UofP associates and 3 of the classes he didn't want to take he paid someone else to. This can happen with these schools, because they don't care. They just want the money. So again, it isn't the online, it is the UofP. Or devry. Or any other degree factory. Sorry dude. It sucks, but it is med school. It is extremely hard to get into. There is a reason that about 7% of the people who claim premed actually make it to med school (on average).

 

[Hopefulone111]

Ok, I did some more research and looks like I can either go to a community college and then transfer to a public university such as UIC or I can attend a lesser known 4 year university (East West University in Chicago)...should I go ahead with a lesser known 4 year uni? Also, given my situation would it be okay to major in a non science degree while finishing my prereqs or should I stick with a science major? Thanks guys

 

[Catalystik]

Ok, I did some more research and looks like I can either go to a community college and then transfer to a public university such as UIC or I can attend a lesser known 4 year university (East West University in Chicago)...should I go ahead with a lesser known 4 year uni? Also, given my situation would it be okay to major in a non science degree while finishing my prereqs or should I stick with a science major? Thanks guys

UIC has a reputation of preparing one well for med school, it's cheaper, will give you access to more opportunities important to a med school applicant like research, and has a greater array of upper-level Biology classes to choose from.

I would pick a major that allows you to retake every bad grade (below a C+) you have so far so as to invoke the AACOMAS grade forgiveness policy***. Major doesn't matter, so long as you complete all the prerequisites.

***Each class that one retakes must have the same credit hours (be careful if switching from semester hours to quarter hours) as the original course, or greater in order to invoke the AACOMAS grade forgiveness policy. The retake need not be at the same school. The course name needn't be identical so long as the course content is demonstrably similar per the course catalogs.

When one retakes, only the most recent grade is included in the calculation of your application GPA by AACOMAS.

 

[Goro]

Concur STRONGLY with this poster. I have yet to see any evidence that online course work can prepare you for medical school, which is a huge fire pit intellectually.

So, stick the cc's and then trasnfer to a 4 year school. If you want it, you can do it.

no. it isn't the fact that it is online that makes them doubt the education. it is the fact that these universities are known to be degree factories. basically anyone who goes will get a degree. and i have a friend that did UofP associates and 3 of the classes he didn't want to take he paid someone else to. This can happen with these schools, because they don't care. They just want the money. So again, it isn't the online, it is the UofP. Or devry. Or any other degree factory. Sorry dude. It sucks, but it is med school. It is extremely hard to get into. There is a reason that about 7% of the people who claim premed actually make it to med school (on average).

 

[Hopefulone111]

If I finish my major at my regular uni with a major in general studies (around 60 credits) and apply with a low GPA or should I go ahead and still transfer schools? Will it matter if I start with a fresh GPA at another school? My regular university I'm below 2.0 and just starting the repair work to get back in after a long dismissal

 

[Catalystik]

I thought you were at a community college right now rather than a university.

You will be obliged to submit a transcript from every college you attend. All grades earned must be reported to the med school application service, even if one college doesn't know about the other. Do you think they will let you transfer before you prove yourself academically at your current school? Will they let you start fresh at a new school without requiring that you transfer your old grades? You need to find out and then make a decision based on full information.

 

[Hopefulone111]

I'm in CC right now. I'm eligible to take only summer classes at my regular university and I do well in those they will admit be back. Not all of my credits will transfer to a new school so it would take me longer elsewhere for sure.So my question is although I can transfer my credits (the grades don't transfer in new school GPA only credits) and get a high GPA at the new school since they still want transcipts from all schools...should I just finish in general studies at my regular school and retake the reqs? If I transfer I loose around 20 credits.I'm also starting to explore caribbean schools...lots going on need to gather information and think long term in my sticky situation.

 

[Catalystik]

Which is your "regular university"?

I suggest you figure out which path would be the most economical in time and money. If you would end up taking an extra year to graduate at another school, that would seem to negate the value of staying around where you are now. Surely an advisor could tell ahead of time what classes would transfer, depending on where you want to go, before you begin any new coursework.

Retaking any prerequisite lower than a C+ is a good idea, though, regardless of where you do it. Just be sure the credits are the same or better than the original course.

 

[Hopefulone111]

Indiana University and if transfer then it would be in Chicago UIC...and that after I take more CC classes unless I choose East West which is a lesser known one taking me directly but also more expensive hmm

It's more economical to finish at Indiana but then I would be graduating with a VERY low GPA around 2.0 range ... at the new school I would have a higher GPA but they see all transcipts

Or another option just finish the remaining reqs and try for Caribbean and no need to finish undergrad...GPA would still be VERY low... not sure how they view CC classes

 

[Catalystik]

You can get into some Caribbean school so long as you have a good credit rating. Some don't even require an MCAT. Unfortunately, they have a high attrition rate, low graduation rate, and a low match rate to US residency programs. Many leave them with huge debt and no possibility of ever getting licensed to work as a physician. If you want to practice medicine, you'd have a better chance by going to a DO med school. You can read more about them in SDN's International Medicine > Caribbean forum.

 

[Hopefulone111]

If I decide to try for DO would a high GPA at another school look better than a low GPA (although steady climb) at my first school? I'm guessing since they see all transcripts would it even matter? It is more economical and time saving to finish at my first school. Thanks for all your help Bless!

 

[Catalystik]

Your application transcript, which will have all the grades from every school, will show a steady rise in grades (regardless of where the grades were earned). All the years after third year are lumped together into fourth year/senior year grades, unless you take more classes after you graduate. Those postbac grades would be listed on a Postbac line. Any grad school grades would be listed on the Grad line.

 

[Hopefulone111]

Would I have to retake only prereqs or all courses? My school does not replace grades for GPA on more than 3 courses. I had only been taking courses during the summer since 2006 as my schools policy only allowed dismissed students to take summer so I don't have defined semesters.

I also took a beginning bio course in high school for college credit and received a C+ (2004) and when I started college I took the classes again but ended up with an F...should I repeat bio?

 

[Catalystik]

Would I have to retake only prereqs or all courses? My school does not replace grades for GPA on more than 3 courses. I had only been taking courses during the summer since 2006 as my schools policy only allowed dismissed students to take summer so I don't have defined semesters.

I also took a beginning bio course in high school for college credit and received a C+ (2004) and when I started college I took the classes again but ended up with an F...should I repeat bio?

The prerequisites and any other science/math with low grades would be most important to retake. If that doesn't raise your cGPA to more than 3.0, then you can think about other retakes.

Yes, you'll need to retake the BIO. AACOMAS counts the most recent retake, not the best one.

Academic years are defined by credit hours earned, not by the year in school.

 

[Hopefulone111]

I did the math and the best I can do is raise my cGPA to a 2.5 with my schools policy that only allows three grades to be replaced...should I count the cGPA on my school transcript or calculate it based on AACOMAS? I have 58 credits to go and would ideally not want to go over that...I plan on taking 32 credits for prereqs:

*repeat Chemistry 1, have taken Chemistry 2 with a grade of A but take a *300-level Chemistry course at the university

*take Physics 2

*take organic chem 1 and 2 +lab

* repeat bio 1, take bio 2 and lab

I'm taking no science/math courses this summer as I have to raise my cGPA to a 2.0 ASAP to get back in and I'm planning the premed classes for the regular semester

That leaves me with 26 credits of which 6 are for gen. ed, 9 are for 300level, and 11 are elective

Does AAMCOS calculate GPA based on only prereqs or all attempted math/science?

 

[Hopefulone111]

Also, how many times is a course repeat allowed according to AACOMAS? My transcript is confusing some courses like Chem. 1 repeated several times with an F each time!

 

[Catalystik]

AACOMAS will calculate a cGPA (all courses taken from all institutions attended, except where a retake fulfills the requirement of at least the same credit hours, then only the final retake is included in the calculation) and an sGPA (all science classes and no math, see below linkfor what is considered as "science").

Even if your school only allows three retakes to be included in your official calculated GPA, my bet is that if you retake 2 more, they will still appear on your official transcript (you might check into that) where they will be taken into account by the application service. And if not, you could retake more at another institution. Call the Registrar's Office and find out so you can strategize properly.

DO GPA calculation spreadsheet: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450050
Newer modified version: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=839864

AMCAS BCPM GPA varies from AACOMAS sGPA, which includes (scroll to bottom half): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026