Looking for a reality check

[clinical widow]

I’m a 40yr old SLP who is contemplating med school. My husband passed away a year and a half ago unexpectedly leaving me as solo mom to two kids (5 and 1yrs). Is this a realistic goal?

I know I’ve got the drive and ability. I scored 160s+ on the GREs. My 5yr old was born during my grad program, and the following year I had a crazy freak car accident that left me in the hospital for 10days. I still managed to pull off a solid gpa. And then of course this past year, I pulled myself back from losing my husband at 4months pregnant. So I think it’s fair to say the grit is there. Though I don’t really know because I’ve never been to med school or even been around anyone who has. And then obviously, there is the hesitation of the expense and the time commitment away from my kids. Is this completely nuts to think this is a good idea or even doable?

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[M&L]

It’s totally doable and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise . If anything, the fact that you have 2 kids to support makes the reason even better .
I am so about your husband . I can’t even imagine what it feels like .

my mom changed careers at 48. Completely. And I am ridiculously proud of her . She is happy , and is making a big difference through her new career . You can do it. It’s a long road, but you can do it .
PM me any time, I’ll mentor you and help you along the way (older female myself ) , M3.

 

[Crayola227]

The first question is who is going to watch the kkds. And don't say daycare, the hours you'll be expected to pull won't work.

 

[Dave1980]

I’m a 40yr old SLP who is contemplating med school. My husband passed away a year and a half ago unexpectedly leaving me as solo mom to two kids (5 and 1yrs). Is this a realistic goal?

I know I’ve got the drive and ability. I scored 160s+ on the GREs. My 5yr old was born during my grad program, and the following year I had a crazy freak car accident that left me in the hospital for 10days. I still managed to pull off a solid gpa. And then of course this past year, I pulled myself back from losing my husband at 4months pregnant. So I think it’s fair to say the grit is there. Though I don’t really know because I’ve never been to med school or even been around anyone who has. And then obviously, there is the hesitation of the expense and the time commitment away from my kids. Is this completely nuts to think this is a good idea or even doable?

Doable with an extremely robust support system that will watch your kids everyday or a full-time nanny.

Sounds completely nuts to me.

 

[2010houston]

You will need a VERY strong support system. Like someone you can call at a moments notice and who can stay with your kids overnight multiple times over multiple years without you or they worrying about a thing. Ideally you will have someone like this PLUS a more regular child care arrangement. You will need backups for the backups.

with that said, medicine can truly be one of the most rewarding careers ever. I love what I do. But the path is exhausting and you really do need a lot of support doing it with young kids.

feel free to reach out if you like.

 

[Goro]

Very sorry to hear of your loss. I do not merely sympathize, I empathize.

I've had single moms as students, so yes, it's doable, but as mentioned above, support systems are required.

Suggest start volunteering with patients or scribing. You may have to wait for the COVID surge to pass, though, for the former.

 

[DadIsFat]

Hi @clinical widow. SLP turned med student here. I am currently a M2 and although it has been difficult, I am happy with my decision to go back to school. I am sorry to hear about your husband. As others have said, you will definitely need a strong support system. The time away from the kids is tough. My M1 year, we had a test every Monday so weekends were tough because I always needed to study. We have elementary school aged kids and extended family was great about having the kids over sometimes for me to study and my husband was great about me running to the school library too. This year we have test blocks which is better in terms of family time but still pretty difficult, especially the last couple of weekends prior to block exams.
How many prerequisites do you need? That is another thing to consider. I had very few and it took me a couple years of working part-time or full-time with some night classes as available.
What area of speech do you currently work in? Are you on the medical side? You could consider speaking with some physicians that you work with and maybe seeing if you could shadow some of them. I got most of my shadowing hours through physicians I knew from work. Volunteering as @Goro mentioned is also a great idea. Best wishes!

 

[Dral]

Something to consider it that it will be easier at your age to go the direction of something in the area of primary care, IM, maybe psych.

I'm not saying you can't do whatever you want, but I believe there will be bias against you (unfortunately) that could be an extra uphill climb for you in certain fields (think surgery and competitive fields mostly).

 

[clinical widow]

Thank you all for the kind words and sharing your thoughts. You’ve made many good points I’m going to think about.
I do have a reasonable support system, my parents live close but are also aging so yes that aspect would be difficult but doable. I’d imagine I’d need to find a live-in nanny or au pair while keeping the kid’s regular daycare. Even still, I know I’m going to have a difficult time missing out on their lives. I guess I don’t have a solid idea of what med school would look like, how many hours I’d expect to be in school and study and if there’s anyway to sort of front load it as I start my prerequisites?

My alternate consideration is a phd in neuroscience, as the path there would be more manageable, in something I am interested in and would allow me greater impact for clients.
I’m just not sure would have the same value- both financial return and mentally/emotionally and I’d be left still wanting ‘more’. Then again, I recently met a 60yr old physician returning to school for his MBA which made me think it’s very likely I’d finish medical school and still not be ‘done’.

 

[clinical widow]

It’s totally doable and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise . If anything, the fact that you have 2 kids to support makes the reason even better .
I am so about your husband . I can’t even imagine what it feels like .

my mom changed careers at 48. Completely. And I am ridiculously proud of her . She is happy , and is making a big difference through her new career . You can do it. It’s a long road, but you can do it .
PM me any time, I’ll mentor you and help you along the way (older female myself ) , M3.

Thank you so much M&L, your mom sounds like a super hero. I appreciate the encouragement, if I end up going this route I will definitely reach out!

 

[clinical widow]

Sounds completely nuts to me.

Well, I can’t say you’re wrong, lol. This is kind of a thing for me 😂

 

[clinical widow]

Hi @clinical widow. SLP turned med student here. I am currently a M2 and although it has been difficult, I am happy with my decision to go back to school. I am sorry to hear about your husband. As others have said, you will definitely need a strong support system. The time away from the kids is tough. My M1 year, we had a test every Monday so weekends were tough because I always needed to study. We have elementary school aged kids and extended family was great about having the kids over sometimes for me to study and my husband was great about me running to the school library too. This year we have test blocks which is better in terms of family time but still pretty difficult, especially the last couple of weekends prior to block exams.
How many prerequisites do you need? That is another thing to consider. I had very few and it took me a couple years of working part-time or full-time with some night classes as available.
What area of speech do you currently work in? Are you on the medical side? You could consider speaking with some physicians that you work with and maybe seeing if you could shadow some of them. I got most of my shadowing hours through physicians I knew from work. Volunteering as @Goro mentioned is also a great idea. Best wishes!

Thank you @DadIsFat and congrats on your journey, that’s awesome!
Many good tips here, I will follow through with these. Yes, I’d have to give myself at least a year or two to do prereqs.
I am in a pediatric outpatient rehab through the hospital, I can connect with a few of the doctors there. I didn’t even realize this was a thing I could do, is shadowing not an issue with privacy regulations?

 

[clinical widow]

Very sorry to hear of your loss. I do not merely sympathize, I empathize.

I've had single moms as students, so yes, it's doable, but as mentioned above, support systems are required.

Suggest start volunteering with patients or scribing. You may have to wait for the COVID surge to pass, though, for the former.

Thank you Goro!
I will look into medical scribing for now. I don’t really know much about this, is that something that admissions would look for on an applicant?

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Based on your questions about medical school and the application process, I'm gathering that you're still very much in the idea/considering your options phase. If this is the case, I suggest carefully reviewing the resources on SDN about medical school applications and thoroughly researching the requirements. It sounds like you have several years of work ahead of you to even get to the application phase, so you need to determine if all that work/time/money - with no guarantee of successful admission - is worth it given your circumstances.

I think the first step is to set up some physician shadowing. Different physicians/practices have different HIPAA considerations, so your best bet is your current system where you're a known entity. But yes, 40-100 hours of physician shadowing is essentially a requirement for a medical school application. So start there. Shadowing will allow you to see if medicine is even appealing to you. The day-to-day life of a physician that you witness via shadowing is often very different than what it looks like to doctor's colleagues or patients.

If you shadow for a few weeks and find that you can see yourself pursuing this field for 4 years of medical school, plus 3-7 years of residency, plus the rest of your life as an attending, then you can start thinking about next steps.

 

[Goro]

Thank you Goro!
I will look into medical scribing for now. I don’t really know much about this, is that something that admissions would look for on an applicant?

It gives you positive things:
It's a job (employment skills are always good. For many pre-meds, the first job they'll ever hold will be a resident)
It's clinician shadowing
It's patient contact

 

[petomed]

I’m a 40yr old SLP who is contemplating med school. My husband passed away a year and a half ago unexpectedly leaving me as solo mom to two kids (5 and 1yrs). Is this a realistic goal?

I know I’ve got the drive and ability. I scored 160s+ on the GREs. My 5yr old was born during my grad program, and the following year I had a crazy freak car accident that left me in the hospital for 10days. I still managed to pull off a solid gpa. And then of course this past year, I pulled myself back from losing my husband at 4months pregnant. So I think it’s fair to say the grit is there. Though I don’t really know because I’ve never been to med school or even been around anyone who has. And then obviously, there is the hesitation of the expense and the time commitment away from my kids. Is this completely nuts to think this is a good idea or even doable?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I would definitely take a hard look at why you want to pursue medicine. Is it because your experiences have truly led you toward this wedge in the road, you feel you're being pulled toward it like a moth to a flame? Or is this a blip, facilitated by recent life events? Absolutely no judgement here. But self-reflection and answering the question of 'why now?' is crucial. Not for me, not for sdn, and not just for yourself. But for those future several dozen secondary applications you will need to write during the application process, and subsequently to the panel of admissions committee members that will ask you the exact same question if you receive an interview with a medical school.

Shadow some doctors before starting coursework. Volunteer in the ER, they're always looking for people. Be sure you're structurally able to dedicate 80 hrs/wk studying during the first two years of medical school on a regular basis, then 80+ hrs/wk irregularly for the following six years.

If you want to be a doctor, dive in with your eyes wide and ears open. You've already demonstrated tremendous grit in your personal life. If you can make the grades and MCAT, and afford 500k of debt--there's no question you can do it. Just make sure it's the path for you.

 

[FrederickFlores]

New OMS-1 here. 47 years old with a career as a social worker (MSW) and registered nurse (BSN/RN). I can’t speak for having children, but despite medical school being tough I am doing fine. You will do great also provided you have support along the way. The only hurdle I see is the age discrimination in admissions. I know schools say they don’t age diecriminate, but I know that they do after having talked with a couple of admissions committee‘s reps. I found the osteopathic schools to be way more amenable to admitting a midcareer student.

 

[Campana]

Hi @clinical widow

So sorry for your loss - I cannot imagine what you're going through.

With regards to switching careers...I am in the middle of that, so I'll give you a brief summary of the timeline you might be looking at depending on whether you already have the pre-requisites or need to take MCAT, etc.

At 38, kids 3, 5, 8, I started volunteering at a local hospital (1x week, 4 hours) and tried to sign up for pre-reqs at the local community college, while working full time. At 40, kids 5, 7, 10 (fall 2015) I started a post-bacc program with all the pre-reqs at night, still worked my regular job all day. It was a two year program - we got a nanny for after school since my husband works long hours and has an unpredictable evening schedule. At 42 (Jan 2018) I took the MCAT. At 42/43 (spring/summer/fall 2018) I applied to Medical schools. At 44, kids 9, 11, 14 I started medical school and here I am still.

The main reason this all worked was definitely the support for the kids. I'll be frank - my husband's support is emotional, encouragement - which has been a tremendous blessing considering this whole endeavor could cause a lot of arguments and misunderstandings and frustrations. I still do the bulk of kid management (schedule, arranging carpools, laundry, groceries, making sure they eat said groceries). And with the start of rotations, I think we may need to rehire a driver. I thought that my oldest would be able to help with the driving, but I neglected to remember that he will be busy driving himself to his events.

That's just the very basic nuts and bolts. I'm sure you already see the studying part slipping in around 4-6 AM before kids wake up and then again in all the nooks and crannys - Anki on my phone anywhere I go and lecture podcasts have been a godsend - I don't think I could have done this before those were a thing.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask! If you want this, it is certainly doable. Is it the right choice for you? Could be

 

[mvp67]

Thank you all for the kind words and sharing your thoughts. You’ve made many good points I’m going to think about.
I do have a reasonable support system, my parents live close but are also aging so yes that aspect would be difficult but doable. I’d imagine I’d need to find a live-in nanny or au pair while keeping the kid’s regular daycare. Even still, I know I’m going to have a difficult time missing out on their lives. I guess I don’t have a solid idea of what med school would look like, how many hours I’d expect to be in school and study and if there’s anyway to sort of front load it as I start my prerequisites?

My alternate consideration is a phd in neuroscience, as the path there would be more manageable, in something I am interested in and would allow me greater impact for clients.
I’m just not sure would have the same value- both financial return and mentally/emotionally and I’d be left still wanting ‘more’. Then again, I recently met a 60yr old physician returning to school for his MBA which made me think it’s very likely I’d finish medical school and still not be ‘done’.

Okay, so everyone is correct with a support system or an employee helper to deal with taking care of the kids but also the basic necessity things for the home like cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry. When you are single letting these slack and eating a pizza for the week while you have no clean clothes and dishes in the sink is okay but with little ones it might be harder to let those things slide.

I always say medical school is a job. You have to put in 8-10 hours a day of material review( I include class in this if you go to class). I would look for a school that is P/F during the preclinical years and doesn’t have mandatory attendance to all classes. That way you can essentially make a schedule that works for you.

Also you can’t work in medical school and trust me what they give you in loans or scholarships will not be enough to sustain your family unless you are completely debt free and live in a low cost of living area.( which isn’t always doable)

 

[labratchronicles]

This is a hard decision to make. My dad died and when things get hard, I think of what he would say to me as I apply as a single bachelor, who certainly has no kids.

If you are financially oriented around your children, I think being a physician makes a better parent. All my mentors who stepped up for me in childhood did not just happen to be doctors. However, I attest to the financial ceilings and emotional stunts that med school puts on most people, not necessarily offsetting the wholesome but intangible rewards or interests of medicine.

That your husband, your children, and you have legacies already churning is amazing, but you need support. Keep going toward your dream in medicine and hopefully you help a lot of people. Thank you for sharing here.

 

[DadIsFat]

Thank you @DadIsFat and congrats on your journey, that’s awesome!
Many good tips here, I will follow through with these. Yes, I’d have to give myself at least a year or two to do prereqs.
I am in a pediatric outpatient rehab through the hospital, I can connect with a few of the doctors there. I didn’t even realize this was a thing I could do, is shadowing not an issue with privacy regulations?

It sounds like you are in a good place to shadow then. Maybe you can get to know the PM&R doc that is associated with the rehab? Most schools like to see shadowing in primary care also- peds, family medicine, internal medicine. Consider trying to make contacts in those areas or even asking your doctor or your kid’s. Most patients are pretty cool with having a student in the room. They can always ask you to leave if not. Depending on where you shadow, you may have to complete some HIPPA paperwork, etc. or if you shadow at your own institution, you may not have to as you would have completed this as an employee.
Is there a medical school in your town or affiliated with your work? If so, these places often offer pre-application counseling. You might be able to get some assistance there as well.

 

[clinical widow]

Be sure you're structurally able to dedicate 80 hrs/wk studying during the first two years of medical school on a regular basis, then 80+ hrs/wk irregularly for the following six years.

If you want to be a doctor, dive in with your eyes wide and ears open. You've already demonstrated tremendous grit in your personal life. If you can make the grades and MCAT, and afford 500k of debt--there's no question you can do it. Just make sure it's the path for you.

Thank you all so very much. I’ve got lots to think about here clearly and am so appreciative of the advice and experiences shared here.

@petomed I was not planning on working throughout the program but I still don’t know that I could give up 80hrs a week up away from my kids. I had thought if it was around 40-60, that would be doable. Also, I had imagined the costs closer to 250-300k. If your numbers are accurate, then I’m not so sure this would be the right path for me at this point in my life and may be better off going with a phd or even PA. Ty

 

[Crayola227]

Thank you all so very much. I’ve got lots to think about here clearly and am so appreciative of the advice and experiences shared here.

@petomed I was not planning on working throughout the program but I still don’t know that I could give up 80hrs a week up away from my kids. I had thought if it was around 40-60, that would be doable. Also, I had imagined the costs closer to 250-300k. If your numbers are accurate, then I’m not so sure this would be the right path for me at this point in my life and may be better off going with a phd or even PA. Ty

The estimates about time are right on the money. There are some people who spend closer to 60 hours a week during the first two years, and the last two which are clinical, there can be rotations that are closer to 40-60, but there are always ones where you can spend 80 or even more. And even in scenarios that are 40-60 hours, that can always end up a descriptor of time that *must* be spent away from home, but when you factor in assignments and studying, you have a lot more hours where technically you can be home and so don't need to address obtaining *even more* childcare, but you will not be spending time with or caring for your children.

The other issue besides total number of hours, is that even if you are at say, 60 hours, there can be lots of days where you literally cannot see your kids at all because of how long they are, or you can have any number of overnight nights as well.

Even during the first two years which are didactic usually, it can be unpredictable when you might have to spend long days or have 80 hour weeks. Say you do poorly on a test or in a block. The school could then mandate a certain number of hours where you must come in for in person tutoring or study groups or activities, and some hours can even be in the evening making childcare potentially more challenging. They could mandate in person attendence to all lectures.

I had to make up gross anatomy (I did not pass despite best efforts) by flying all the way across country for 6 weeks to remediate it.

All this is just looking at medical school.

Residency will almost always tend closer to 60-80 hours a week than it will 40-60. They aren't kidding about getting one day off a week averaged over the month. Depends what you go into the mix of clinic (closer to 9-5 pm hours) vs inpt. Inpt has any number of 6 day weeks with any number of 12-18 hr days as the norm, nvm how many are 36 hrs.

It's not that you can't be a mom and see your kids in med training ever. But it does trend closer to the 60-80 than 40-60. It isn't predictable. It doesn't care that you have a family. It expects you to show up and dedicate more than full time to study or work, any hour of the day, any day of the week, for any stretch. You need there to be someone to take what amounts to full custody of your kids, and you're like the parent with part time custody that does what you can.

 

[Crayola227]

As far as money estimates, the average debt seems to go up and up. Graduating med school with 300,000 is not unusual by any means. Keep in mind that during residency, most single residents are only able to make minimum payments, and they are usually not even able to keep up with interest let alone pay down. I made about 50K as a resident (standard) and just to keepy interest from compounding would have taken $30K a year. No way you can do that with kids. I did IBR which makes payments doable, but with the income of a resident you will not keep up with those loans.

By the time you are an attending and can actually start paying the loan down, well, point is you have to account for the growth of your student loans while you are in training. Mine ended up somewhere between $350K or $400K 3 years after graduation.

I only had like $20K from undergrad.

And despite massive loans, you don't get financial aid to help with certain costs (your licensing exams and prep which is a couples grand, cost of attending residency interviews (job interviews so not covered) as well as relocation expenses.

Honestly I can't imagine getting through med school with 3 younger kids and no spouse.

Most of the people here who have commented about having kids in med school have mentioned a spouse, and even if they said it was doable, still mentioned it was hard.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have no kids and you couldn't pay me enough to redo medical school now that I'm pushing 40. However, if your body can handle it and you've got good involvement to help with the kids then go for it. Just make sure to take an honest appraisal of why you're doing it before you start, because the debt is so deep that there's no turning back

 

[Mad Jack]

Thank you all so very much. I’ve got lots to think about here clearly and am so appreciative of the advice and experiences shared here.

@petomed I was not planning on working throughout the program but I still don’t know that I could give up 80hrs a week up away from my kids. I had thought if it was around 40-60, that would be doable. Also, I had imagined the costs closer to 250-300k. If your numbers are accurate, then I’m not so sure this would be the right path for me at this point in my life and may be better off going with a phd or even PA. Ty

I have north of 400k myself. Average hours from MS1-MS3 will be 50-80 depending on the rotation and how close you are to tests. I probably averaged 60-70 through all three years, with MS4 being around 50 a week. Intern year you're looking at 60-80 hours a week depending on the field, while PGY2+ will be anywhere from 45-80 hours a week depending on the field. I average about 50-60 hours per week in psychiatry. In practice, 50-55 hours a week with charting time is around average, with some fields demanding far more and others a bit less.

PA or NP is a solid route to consider. PAs only have one really challenging clinical year (you'll usually be pushing 60-80 hours a week in the clinical year) but after that you can usually find a schedule more to your liking, as it is much easier to be part time or 9-5 without extra headaches as a PA

 

[LimpSpatula]

I’m going to be blunt. Don’t do it. I’m sorry for your loss, but your children lost their father (assumption here), and they are going to need you even more. Unless your parents are going to fill that roll, which it sounds like they can’t, then you will be setting them up for failure.

Think about it this way: the effect that you will have on their lives is more than any patient you will ever encounter. I’m sure your hearts there, and this is part of it, but it’s not the right card to play with this deck. I know reading that will exacerbate some feelings, and that’s okay. You’ve experienced something that is unimagineable to most, so be kind to yourself.

 

[medasez]

I’m a 40yr old SLP who is contemplating med school. My husband passed away a year and a half ago unexpectedly leaving me as solo mom to two kids (5 and 1yrs). Is this a realistic goal?

I know I’ve got the drive and ability. I scored 160s+ on the GREs. My 5yr old was born during my grad program, and the following year I had a crazy freak car accident that left me in the hospital for 10days. I still managed to pull off a solid gpa. And then of course this past year, I pulled myself back from losing my husband at 4months pregnant. So I think it’s fair to say the grit is there. Though I don’t really know because I’ve never been to med school or even been around anyone who has. And then obviously, there is the hesitation of the expense and the time commitment away from my kids. Is this completely nuts to think this is a good idea or even doable?

Solid gpa is relative who you speak with. Can you get into medical school in the first place, as there is a lot of grind getting in as well.
Why do you want to be a doctor? There's lots of similar careers with similar opportunities but more flexibility with kids.
I've seen doctor families with the worst kids because they don't spend enough time with them. But correlation is not causation.

 

[Osminog]

Please don’t go to medical school. Please don’t sign up for a costly, soul-draining 7+ year sacrifice when you’re 40 years old and in a challenging family situation. Med school would create a chasm between you and your children during a time when they are vulnerable and in need of attention and care. It’s such a bad idea.

If you feel passionate about medicine and want to change careers, do well on the GRE again and go to PA school.

 

[clinical widow]

Thank you all!
To answer some of your questions here-
I was looking into attending a DO school for pediatrics, with the intent of gen pediatric, psych or ENT. I am now looking into PA route. I have considered your insights and feel that the cost/value is to great to put on myself and my kids. My GPA was 3.82 for those who’ve asked, a 4.0 in my major (comm disorders).
Many have asked why I am considering medical school which I do not have any single short answer, rather it’s a series of rationales that have led me to this consideration, and it’s difficult because every other consideration feels lacking and keeps leading me back to it. I won’t get into my thought process too much here, as it’s likely a moot point if I’m leaning towards deciding it is not within my reachable world for now.

 

[Doc_Ock]

It wouldn't be worth it in my opinion.