Locum Search

[7bobthebuilder7]

I am looking for suggestions on locum companies to use to help find a good 1-2 week position after graduation to make money to travel while taking the summer off before my permanent job.

Does anyone have companies they would advise to use for locums? What is reasonble pay? Thinking 3K a day if consults, but not sure, what is the market rate and if possible as a new grad to get.

Any help or suggestions would be welcomed. I see a lot of postings especially thru Weatherby but not sure if they are good to use, have support and maybe timing to licensure maybe a problem for some states.

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[RADONC4285]

3K is quite high. Average is 2 to 2.4k a shift. I assume you're not board certified yet, which complicates things. Some hospitals only take board certified. Third party companies like Weatherby and CompHealth are okay, but they take a lot off the top. I've had good luck talking directly to small solo clinics close to my area. Directly contract with the hospital assuming you can figure out malpractice with them

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

Weatherby and comphealth pay around 2k. The smaller firms will get you around 2500. To get 3k you have to negotiate directly, which you should.

However, this plan makes zero sense. Any decent job should give you at least a 25k signing bonus. Use this and set your start date back a few weeks. Or be a good anerican and put it on credit cards, you’ll pay it off on your first paycheck.

 

[7bobthebuilder7]

However, this plan makes zero sense. Any decent job should give you at least a 25k signing bonus. Use this and set your start date back a few weeks. Or be a good anerican and put it on credit cards, you’ll pay it off on your first paycheck.

Sign on hits on Day 1 not 3.5 months prior my start date and I couldnt get it earlier as per institutional policies. Yeah credit card was backup option especially one with no interest at the start or doing a small loan or family borrowing for 5-10% return but figured locums maybe an option to always travel to some spots and pull money couple times during the months off.

I've had good luck talking directly to small solo clinics close to my area. Directly contract with the hospital assuming you can figure out malpractice with them

Average is 2 to 2.4k a shift. I assume you're not board certified yet, which complicates things. Some hospitals only take board certified.

Good to know average and yes wont be certified which will make it harder especially by just cold emailing but maybe worth a chance. A

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

I’ll spot you 20k at 10%.

This is what rad onc has come to. Loan sharking new grads.

 

[RADONC4285]

I'll do it at 9%

 

[evilbooyaa]

Ah... one of the most stressful times. The transition point from end of residency to start of attendinghood. Excited and have money coming in and want to enjoy it, but have no actual money in hand to pay for those enjoyments.

Pay off min, hold a CC balance for a month. Ask family to cover. Eat into your savings. Locums as a fresh grad, not board certified, is going to be tough. Not only to find a position, but also not to get massively taken advantage of in terms of payment.

You're graduating in June and starting in mid October? I was ecstatic to be able to take a month off before I needed to go make money to not be homeless. Good deal for you!

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Depends on the nature of the payback timeline, but I'll do 20k if you pay me 21.4 on 1/1.

 

[drowsy12]

locum companies are desperate right now. It shouldn’t be hard at all to get some gigs. Good luck !

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

locum companies are desperate right now. It shouldn’t be hard at all to get some gigs. Good luck !

Perhaps if they stopped offering $1800-$2000/day to cover a clinic in rural Georgia or Kentucky they would not be desperate. I've stopped taking their calls. I've probably gone through the song and dance of being presented at 10 different places for a fair rate. They always find someone with a pulse and a license to do it for bottom dollar at the last minute.

 

[metallica81788]

My hospital job couldn't get me started until late August - I told them that wasn't acceptable so they arranged a one week internal locums job for me with one of their satellite sites. It was enough to get me through with credit cards until that first paycheck.

 

[Gfunk6]

I'll do it at 9%

8.5%!

 

[taserlaser]

Next up in red journal - incidence and prevalence of SDN rad onc loans: a survey

 

[7bobthebuilder7]

8.5%!

Depends on the nature of the payback timeline, but I'll do 20k if you pay me 21.4 on 1/1.

Very fair rates across the board for loans. Sounds quite nice to be offering loans to new grads.

You're graduating in June and starting in mid October? I was ecstatic to be able to take a month off before I needed to go make money to not be homeless. Good deal for you!

I negotiated aggressively on this because I imagine this would be the last time I can take 3 months off straight with no kids, no commitments, etc. I will burn through savings for sure and I have some... but I figured if I want to travel to higher end places, I need some cash to additionally burn without the stress like 1 week work to then blow that on a 7k Galapagos Island cruise sounds like a dream...

locum companies are desperate right now. It shouldn’t be hard at all to get some gigs. Good luck !

Looks like it on Weatherby but at same time assuming 2k a day, that is basically what a full-time position pays so no benefit of doing locums money wise... with the other stressors unless the gig is very easy like purely seeing OTVs and being in clinic.

Thank you everyone. Will ask for 2.5k negotiation for 1-2 weeks goal to get like 15-20k prior to travels.


Besides weatherby, any other big company to seek?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Very fair rates across the board for loans. Sounds quite nice to be offering loans to new grads.


I negotiated aggressively on this because I imagine this would be the last time I can take 3 months off straight with no kids, no commitments, etc. I will burn through savings for sure and I have some... but I figured if I want to travel to higher end places, I need some cash to additionally burn without the stress like 1 week work to then blow that on a 7k Galapagos Island cruise sounds like a dream...


Looks like it on Weatherby but at same time assuming 2k a day, that is basically what a full-time position pays so no benefit of doing locums money wise... with the other stressors unless the gig is very easy like purely seeing OTVs and being in clinic.

Thank you everyone. Will ask for 2.5k negotiation for 1-2 weeks goal to get like 15-20k prior to travels.


Besides weatherby, any other big company to seek?

I'm generally loose with my money on OTV day.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Next up in red journal - incidence and prevalence of SDN rad onc loans: a survey

The spin off of this will be incidence and prevalence of usury toward minorities: a survey of sdn loan sharks and their unconscious unknown biases. It will have 20 authors, mostly white women.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

I've done Pinnacle and had a great experience where the literal only bad part was dealing with my full time job institution. They had a weird unwritten super doctor unfriendly policy; I bet none of you are surprised.

They paid and reimbursed very quickly and didnt give me crap about booking all my own stuff for points.

I even tried to cut out the middle man after 3 jobs at the same clinic and it seemed like they wouldve been cool with it, but I had to move (again because of my full time job).

I think there is a lot of upside to locums even at lower pay if you are a fresh grad or junior physician. It gave me a ton of perspective about both living in a very rural/deprived area as well as working in a tiny resource constrained cancer center. I even made a good friend of the NP there, still talk to her today.

Caveat I think I did not do this until my 2nd year out from training. Not sure it was a BC issue though.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I've done Pinnacle and had a great experience where the literal only bad part was dealing with my full time job institution. They had a weird unwritten super doctor unfriendly policy; I bet none of you are surprised.

They paid and reimbursed very quickly and didnt give me crap about booking all my own stuff for points.

I even tried to cut out the middle man after 3 jobs at the same clinic and it seemed like they wouldve been cool with it, but I had to move (again because of my full time job).

I think there is a lot of upside to locums even at lower pay if you are a fresh grad or junior physician. It gave me a ton of perspective about both living in a very rural/deprived area as well as working in a tiny resource constrained cancer center. I even made a good friend of the NP there, still talk to her today.

Caveat I think I did not do this until my 2nd year out from training. Not sure it was a BC issue though.

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

I've done Pinnacle and had a great experience where the literal only bad part was dealing with my full time job institution. They had a weird unwritten super doctor unfriendly policy; I bet none of you are surprised.

Let me guess, "if you're not going to use your PTO for actual vacation, then we're not sure you're really committed to your job here. The purpose of vacation is to keep you rested to perform well here. If you don't want to travel, you should consider spending time at home on academic projects/publications. We pay you plenty and this is pretty offensive that you would even request this" Something like that?

 

[thesauce]

Arrange directly with a clinic. Both you and the clinic will make out better

 

[NotMattSpraker]

Let me guess, "if you're not going to use your PTO for actual vacation, then we're not sure you're really committed to your job here. The purpose of vacation is to keep you rested to perform well here. If you don't want to travel, you should consider spending time at home on academic projects/publications. We pay you plenty and this is pretty offensive that you would even request this" Something like that?

It was literally an unwritten rule... like its not written down anywhere and not in the practice policies. To this day it's not written down, which seems insane.

I only learned about it because an admin tattled on me when the loc hospital called to verify my credentials. Isn't academics fun? Like, what?

I was allowed to break the unwritten rule on a technicality, basically because of an unrelated ongoing negotiation that had zero to do with me.

What is that Jason Beckta says about laws and policy in medicine?

The apparent concern is that the locums hospital tries to pretend that you work there and this group loves their brand. This is pretty reasonable, but ridiculous its not written down. My current contract has some language about needing to clear external sources of income, mainly so you aren't competing with your employer. I get it.

Hilariously, this actually happened! The place I loc'd put me on their website and it took me two separate phone calls and a threat that I wouldnt come back to make them take it down.

Then I explained my frustration for proving my really physician un-friendly group right!

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

Hilariously, this actually happened! The place I loc'd put me on their website and it took me two separate phone calls and a threat that I wouldnt come back to make them take it down.

I have always been against “tell us about any other Money you are making” clauses on principle. They are so obviously bogus though I have not made a big enough stink about them and just minded my own business, literally, and done whatever I want on my own time. The non compete clause covers their concern. This is just about control.

I also know of a hospital that did this to a locums doctor. I don’t think he had covered there in years but they put him on the website. It’s insane.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

I have always been against “tell us about any other Money you are making” clauses on principle. They are so obviously bogus though I have not made a big enough stink about them and just minded my own business, literally, and done whatever I want on my own time. The non compete clause covers their concern. This is just about control.

I also know of a hospital that did this to a locums doctor. I don’t think he had covered there in years but they put him on the website. It’s insane.

Yea, I agree with you, but its a different discussion. Like most ROs, I've never had multiple contracts in hand at the same time or even really been able to negotiate. The contract language leaves an opportunity for them to just say "yea thats fine", which I expect they would do most of the time. The goal seems to be to prevent a PCP from setting up a private practice across the street to work there on their admin day.

It's totally insane. Hospitals do whatever they want all the time. LOL look at Mayo definitively and publicly saying they don't really agree with the principles of the first amendment... "what are you going to do about it".

I do not feel that anyone is really sticking up for physicians in our new corporate medicine world. Maybe AMA a little, but so far things like fighting the non-competes, its just been talk.

 

[7bobthebuilder7]

I've done Pinnacle and had a great experience where the literal only bad part was dealing with my full time job institution. They had a weird unwritten super doctor unfriendly policy; I bet none of you are surprised.

Hilariously, this actually happened! The place I loc'd put me on their website and it took me two separate phone calls and a threat that I wouldnt come back to make them take it down.

Hmmmm thanks will pay attention to that and make sure I am not added to the website...

Arrange directly with a clinic. Both you and the clinic will make out better

So find the opportunity thru a company and then try to track it down in real life. I like the idea, but maybe the credentialing part for a new grad will be challenging.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I do not feel that anyone is really sticking up for physicians in our new corporate medicine world. Maybe AMA a little, but so far things like fighting the non-competes, its just been talk.

I know it's en vogue to **** on private practices on this site because of a few bad actors, but this is the alternative.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

Hmmmm thanks will pay attention to that and make sure I am not added to the website...

So find the opportunity thru a company and then try to track it down in real life. I like the idea, but maybe the credentialing part for a new grad will be challenging.

Theres not really magic to this, its just how much they need a physician. I think there is no reason they couldn't credential you in theory. You could reach out if you had a center in mind.

If you don't know where to look or how to get started getting credentialed and insured, then IMO the middle man provides some value. Thats why I used them first.

The place I worked was unable to keep a full time physician for a while so they really needed a Rad Onc (among other important cancer center jobs). Our convo sans middle man just naturally happened.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Hmmmm thanks will pay attention to that and make sure I am not added to the website...

So find the opportunity thru a company and then try to track it down in real life. I like the idea, but maybe the credentialing part for a new grad will be challenging.

Yeah, not sure if negotiating directly with the practice would work given your timeline. If I remember, too, board eligible is fine for most of these scenarios.

 

[Neuronix]

I know it's en vogue to **** on private practices on this site because of a few bad actors, but this is the alternative.

For years I sat around and let everyone **** on academics and whenever I said anything about private practice I'd get jumped by a number of users. The tides have shifted a bit.

Private practice in my state is often crazy and notoriously predatory. You might as well just go into academics with the stuff that goes on.

Still, I have always maintained that everyone is out to get you as an employed rad onc.

Academics, private practice, same same but different. Academics used to have something called tenure to protect them, but it's only something like 5% of MDs get tenured nowadays, and even then it's debatable how much it even matters.

Non-competes should be illegal. "Conflict of interest" has been weaponized to make sure that your department and institution control what you do outside of work. What I do on my free time should be no business of my employer. Still, this is the USA where in most states the laws are 100% in favor of business. The contracts are just written as we'll let you go at any time for any reason and the non-compete still applies, so they can have any unwritten rules they want. So an employed doc is basically under the institution's thumb unless they're willing to move around. It's tough to have a family in that sort of environment where you'd need to move every so often to maintain your autonomy unless you just do what you're told, which absolutely can be against your patient's and family's interests.

My father was a truck driver. If his company told him to do something he didn't want to do, he'd just tell them to "**** off" (without the censoring) and go to the next trucking company in the area. We have no such luxury as rad oncs.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Still, I have always maintained that everyone is out to get you as an employed rad onc.

This is my thought. The truly toxic PPs are easy enough to sus out with today's access to information. Avoid accordingly and now you've got a lot more say over your future than becoming a wage slave to a c-suite suit and nurse manager.

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

I know it's en vogue to **** on private practices on this site because of a few bad actors, but this is the alternative.

The problem is that true PP (equal equity division whether single or multi specialty) is not going to be accessible to 95% of new career grads.

Your options are:

1. Non/fake partnership revolving door private practices
2. Pro-only practices with 1 or 2 contracts with a PSA which are “private” in name only and an hairs width away from an admin having an argument with his wife and coming in and blowing the whole thing up and hiring locums and some new grads.
3. Hospital direct employment.
4. “little a” academics (different from big A academics which is about as rare as true PP).

All of the above are different versions of employment almost everyone will find themselves in, and I’d argue #3 is usually the least worst of.

There is a third option called independent 1099 locums (“learn to fly”, etc), usually combined with felony level tax fraud to make it financially viable. This possibly is still better than #1 above.

 

[drowsy12]

Nurse manager sends chills down the spines of many

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

Nurse manager sends chills down the spines of many

Dosimetrist turned manager was the worst nightmare I lived under.

 

[DrProtonX]

I’m very new to the field so I don’t know much about the job market situation right other than it’s not so hot (especially location wise). However, I’ve always been interested in the economy and from that standpoint, the number one driver for the job market is supply and demand. As someone who has just matched into rad onc, I feel like a hypocrite saying this because it means less opportunity for other med students interested in this field, but I truly believe the number of residency spots should be cut by at least 50-70.

Also out of curiosity, what measures do you use to assess the quality of job market? I can think of few like average number of offers new grads gets, total compensation (or base salary since TC data can be tough to get), locum pay etc. but i don’t know which one is the best indicator

 

[radoncftw]

The problem is that true PP (equal equity division whether single or multi specialty) is not going to be accessible to 95% of new career grads.

Your options are:

1. Non/fake partnership revolving door private practices
2. Pro-only practices with 1 or 2 contracts with a PSA which are “private” in name only and an hairs width away from an admin having an argument with his wife and coming in and blowing the whole thing up and hiring locums and some new grads.
3. Hospital direct employment.
4. “little a” academics (different from big A academics which is about as rare as true PP).

All of the above are different versions of employment almost everyone will find themselves in, and I’d argue #3 is usually the least worst of.

There is a third option called independent 1099 locums (“learn to fly”, etc), usually combined with felony level tax fraud to make it financially viable. This possibly is still better than #1 above.

I guess this is true.
I feel fortunate to be in a large single specialty practice. We are pro-only with long-standing PSA with a large hospital network.
I have seen even some legacy large single specialty practice get broken up recently (large PP in KC, large PP in chicago)

I do sometimes wonder in PP if the juice is worth the squeeze for a pro-only group. I am still in the "employed" phase, but the partner compensation is not that much higher than MGMA median for Rad Onc and we work pretty hard.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Dosimetrist turned manager was the worst nightmare I lived under.

I would argue therapists turned manager is the worst. They have the arrogance of being “clinical” and bring the toxic RT culture to the whole department. They are clock punchers

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I would argue therapists turned manager is the worst. They have the arrogance of being “clinical” and bring the toxic RT culture to the whole department. They are clock punchers.

RTT Managers were always my favorite, mainly because they are clock punchers. No time for BS meetings or drama. Get in, do your job, get that paper, go home.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

RTT Managers were always my favorite, mainly because they are clock punchers. No time for BS meetings or drama. Get in, do your job, get that paper, go home.

They are clock punchers as in “we gotta get out of here by 4”, so this means start at 630AM and put your SBRT during lunch without even asking or letting you know. I locumed before starting a job and got to see multiple departments where these characters create miserable cultures for physicians.

 

[BobbyHeenan]

They are clock punchers as in “we gotta get out of here by 4”, so this means start at 630AM and put your SBRT during lunch without even asking or letting you know. I locumed before starting a job and got to see multiple departments where these characters create miserable cultures for physicians.

Some of that has to do with if the place has a revolving door of locums, then there is no one taking ownership of the clinic other than the manager.

In my experience our best manager is a former therapist, but she's old school and came from a time when the doctors (and not the admins) were the bosses, so she values physician input and views us as the boss. I'm stereotyping here, but the newer generation of RTT's and RN's that cut their teeth in the physician-employed-by-hospital model of modern medicine see the upper admins as the voices that matter more than the doctors.

 

[thesauce]

Hmmmm thanks will pay attention to that and make sure I am not added to the website...

So find the opportunity thru a company and then try to track it down in real life. I like the idea, but maybe the credentialing part for a new grad will be challenging.

Shouldn’t be. Most insurance companies just do a rider for locums and you use a modifier in the clinic when you bill for services. The credentialing would only be if you need hospital privileges.

And I would just contact clinics near where you want to be and say you’re available for locums help on X dates. They may not but worth a try and a few phone calls.

 

[yesmaster]

Also out of curiosity, what measures do you use to assess the quality of job market?

1. On average, how productive or well-utilized is the average radiation oncologist?

New patients, hours of patient care, is the average radiation oncologist fully using their skillset or are we taking afternoon naps and unwillingly working part time?

2. What percentage of collections do we capture?

Many specialties like GI, heme onc, surgical specialties, even rads occasionally have opportunities either through PP ownership or hospital employment to capture technical or ancillary revenue, if physicians are only capturing professional fees or even less, that’s the sign of an unhealthy job market. You’re not even capturing the fruits of your own labor. Structurally, clinical academics are paid less than the professional fees they generate for instance, so the proliferation of these jobs in rad onc is unfortunate for docs.

 

[TheWallnerus]

1. On average, how productive or well-utilized is the average radiation oncologist?

New patients, hours of patient care, is the average radiation oncologist fully using their skillset or are we taking afternoon naps and unwillingly working part time?

2. What percentage of collections do we capture?

Many specialties like GI, heme onc, surgical specialties, even rads occasionally have opportunities either through PP ownership or hospital employment to capture technical or ancillary revenue, if physicians are only capturing professional fees or even less, that’s the sign of an unhealthy job market. You’re not even capturing the fruits of your own labor. Structurally, clinical academics are paid less than the professional fees they generate for instance, so the proliferation of these jobs in rad onc is unfortunate for docs.

I guess you’re saying the rad onc job market is as healthy as an ICU patient

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

They are clock punchers as in “we gotta get out of here by 4”, so this means start at 630AM and put your SBRT during lunch without even asking or letting you know. I locumed before starting a job and got to see multiple departments where these characters create miserable cultures for physicians.

This.

Sometimes I think these people would start at 4 AM if it meant being done by noon.