List of Programs That Terminate Residents

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AdmiralChz said:
Don’t fall for Eugene’s spin. His firing had nothing to do with activism and everything to do with bad performance and ridiculous reactionism. You can’t cry racism/bullying/violence at every rebuke in residency and then sick your Twitter mob on an institution mostly with false information.

He is an activist, not a physician or a surgeon by any stretch. He’ll never get another program, and you shouldn’t want him to - is he who you want to represent the physician community for the public?
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i say that with the stanford undergrad degree and duke medical degree imo he stands a reasonable chance to find something. a programs first choice is often an amg and that alone makes him desirable assuming his performance was reasonable and does not have a documented history of being dangerous / incompetent. i dont know how a dangerous and or incompetent resident could make it through 3 years?

do you have inside information or have you rotated with him?
 
AdmiralChz said:
Don’t fall for Eugene’s spin. His firing had nothing to do with activism and everything to do with bad performance and ridiculous reactionism. You can’t cry racism/bullying/violence at every rebuke in residency and then sick your Twitter mob on an institution mostly with false information.

He is an activist, not a physician or a surgeon by any stretch. He’ll never get another program, and you shouldn’t want him to - is he who you want to represent the physician community for the public?
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Or operate on your mother? Or child?
 
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instantkarma said:
i say that with the stanford undergrad degree and duke medical degree imo he stands a reasonable chance to find something. a programs first choice is often an amg and that alone makes him desirable assuming his performance was reasonable and does not have a documented history of being dangerous / incompetent. i dont know how a dangerous and or incompetent resident could make it through 3 years?

do you have inside information or have you rotated with him?
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Programs don’t want problem children...he has proven that he is both a problem and a child.
 
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rokshana said:
Programs don’t want problem children...he has proven that he is both a problem and a child.
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care to comment how - why a sub competent -problem child GS resident is kept for 3/5 years ?? working on patients??
 
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instantkarma said:
care to comment how - why a sub competent -problem child GS resident is kept for 3/5 years ?? working on patients??
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because firing a resident is not the easiest thing to do...just being a douche doesn't get you fired...and while Vanderbilt hasn't released the details or what allowed them to not renew his contract, i would imagine (especially with this particular resident) its pretty rock solid.

Sounds like he really hasn't been seeing pts for at least 6 months of that time since he was on probation/leave...and like anyone else, they probably had to give him a chance to prove himself...unofficial remediation, official remediation, probation, etc...that takes time.

I'm sure if his records at Duke and Stanford were scrutinized, he probably had issues there as well...these things don't just start out of the blue.
 
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google . "McDaniel v. Loyola University Medical Center et al" . public record

orthopedic resident fired during 5 th year
 
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instantkarma said:
google . "McDaniel v. Loyola University Medical Center et al" . public record

orthopedic resident fired during 5 th year
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There's a number of public documents (there and at other places) related to this case, some of which are 30+ pages long, but I can't find a final verdict. While the case appears to have been filed in September 2013, there's motions still being filed as late as May 2018 about extensions. Nuts that it can go on for *five years*.

What I can get is that he was fired. He alleges it was due to

A) Telling the ACGME about duty hours violations
B) Asking for leave after an operation on his retina
C) Asking for leave due to national guard requirements

The defendants (who seem to be everyone from Loyola to the hospital to the ACGME to a coresident) deny that is why he was fired, alleging instead

A) Unprofessionalism (including missing work at some point, but not in the above context)
B) Poor skills
C) Poor ITE scores
D) Aggressive behavior towards women (that in at least one motion the judge mentions was independently corroborated)

He of course states the defendants are lying.
 
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Raryn said:
There's a number of (there and at other places) related to this case, some of which are 30+ pages long, but I can't find a final verdict. While the case appears to have been filed in September 2013, there's motions still being filed as late as about extensions. Nuts that it can go on for *five years*.

What I can get is that he was fired. He alleges it was due to

A) Telling the ACGME about duty hours violations
B) Asking for leave after an operation on his retina
C) Asking for leave due to national guard requirements

The defendants (who seem to be everyone from Loyola to the hospital to the ACGME to a coresident) deny that is why he was fired, alleging instead

A) Unprofessionalism (including missing work at some point, but not in the above context)
B) Poor skills
C) Poor ITE scores
D) Aggressive behavior towards women (that in at least one motion the judge mentions was independently corroborated)

He of course states the defendants are lying.
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form what i know and have seen regarding residency programs and that ortho is very very competitive and take the best and brightest it would be extremely unusual to fire a 5th and final year resident after making it to that point. although i have seen cases in which residents were not competent or competent enough and or had other issues i have also seen first hand politics and how politics can get you terminated.

politics can also be the reason behind an attendings termination or pressure to leave. much of medicine still functions like a fraternity / old boys club.
 
ROBERT B. LOVE, Plaintiff, v. Case No. 15-cv-0650 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN et al., Defendants.

this is the chief of transplant surgery no less suing the medical center.

The lawsuit against Froedtert/MCW from a former heart transplant doctor states he believes patients died because the hospital didn't follow transplant regulations. The lawsuit says organs for Froedtert/MCW patients went to other hospitals because doctors weren't on call 24/7.

The wrongful termination and defamation lawsuit, filed in 2015, accuses the hospital of firing Dr. Robert Love after he raised concerns about the medical care given to transplant patients. Love also says people within Froedtert/MCW gave false information about him to hospitals where he was trying to get a job.

===========================================================================================================

having finished residency a long time ago my best advice to entering residents is # eat humble pie . # suck up # put up # kiss a s s # feed the necessary ego's. because you may encounter things that dont seem fair. once you finish and get the piece of paper they cant hurt you any more or it becomes a lot more difficult for them to hurt.
 
instantkarma said:
ROBERT B. LOVE, Plaintiff, v. Case No. 15-cv-0650 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN et al., Defendants.

this is the chief of transplant surgery no less suing the medical center.

The lawsuit against Froedtert/MCW from a former heart transplant doctor states he believes patients died because the hospital didn't follow transplant regulations. The lawsuit says organs for Froedtert/MCW patients went to other hospitals because doctors weren't on call 24/7.

The wrongful termination and defamation lawsuit, filed in 2015, accuses the hospital of firing Dr. Robert Love after he raised concerns about the medical care given to transplant patients. Love also says people within Froedtert/MCW gave false information about him to hospitals where he was trying to get a job.

===========================================================================================================

having finished residency a long time ago my best advice to entering residents is # eat humble pie . # suck up # put up # kiss a s s # feed the necessary ego's. because you may encounter things that dont seem fair. once you finish and get the piece of paper they cant hurt you any more or it becomes a lot more difficult for them to hurt.
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Not sure why a dispute of an attending suing a medical center due to the CT surgery department being understaffed has anything to do with this thread.
 
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Raryn said:
Not sure why a dispute of an attending suing a medical center due to the CT surgery department being understaffed has anything to do with this thread.
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to show aspiring resident / students concerned about programs that terminate residents that even hospitals terminate chiefs of service and in this case the chief of service initiated a wrongful termination and defamation suit.
 
instantkarma said:
to show aspiring resident / students concerned about programs that terminate residents that even hospitals terminate chiefs of service and in this case the chief of service initiated a wrongful termination and defamation suit.
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Totally different things and they have nothing to do with each other.

Thanks Eugene's Dad.
 
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instantkarma said:
why in the world do you think i am eugene gu's father?

how could my post possibly help him?
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You sure seem to believe his story and think he'll get picked up for surgery residency somewhere. Most everyone else would know that to be a flight of fancy. So either you could be Eugene or perhaps his father. Perhaps not.

Your post wouldn't help him, but seemed more as something to support him...
 
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ThoracicGuy said:
You sure seem to believe his story and think he'll get picked up for surgery residency somewhere. Most everyone else would know that to be a flight of fancy. So either you could be Eugene or perhaps his father. Perhaps not.

Your post wouldn't help him, but seemed more as something to support him...
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stick to cutting, let the other specialities do the thinking...



just kidding


nearly 8000 posts, seems like you found the way to make thoracic surgery a "time on your hands lifestyle"


saw eugene's recent twitter posts and looks like he went off the deep end. he should be keeping a low "apolitical" profile.


interesting if vanderbilts claim of inadequate performance-competency, etc etc is true will they still give him the pgy3 completion diploma? and if so he is eligible for a state medical license and could practice medicine.
 
instantkarma said:
stick to cutting, let the other specialities do the thinking...



just kidding


nearly 8000 posts, seems like you found the way to make thoracic surgery a "time on your hands lifestyle"
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LOL cmon dude, even as an anesthesiologist I wouldn’t say something like that! Maybe you should stick to reading your 10 journals dedicated to your subspecialty? Weird thing to say just because you disagree.

instantkarma said:
saw eugene's recent twitter posts and looks like he went off the deep end. he should be keeping a low "apolitical" profile.
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He’s been ridiculous from the start of all this coming out, not sure anything really changed...

instantkarma said:
interesting if vanderbilts claim of inadequate performance-competency, etc etc is true will they still give him the pgy3 completion diploma? and if so he is eligible for a state medical license and could practice medicine.
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Doesn’t matter, in most states all you need for a full license is PGY-1 completion and a pass on Step 3. The problem will be finding someone to hire him and give him anything that resembles privileges - doubtful for reasons listed above.
 
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AdmiralChz said:
LOL cmon dude, even as an anesthesiologist I wouldn’t say something like that! Maybe you should stick to reading your 10 journals dedicated to your subspecialty? Weird thing to say just because you disagree.


during residency my surgical buddies would always pull my leg about mental masturbation and I theirs about cutting. there were lots of one liners we used jokingly and affectionately. I did write "just kidding" in my post.

too much political correctness nowadays.



He’s been ridiculous from the start of all this coming out, not sure anything really changed...


I have not looked at his earlier stuff. the only reason I know him is because I saw he sued trump and won. then I googled a bit and led me to this website



Doesn’t matter, in most states all you need for a full license is PGY-1 completion and a pass on Step 3. The problem will be finding someone to hire him and give him anything that resembles privileges - doubtful for reasons listed above.
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doc in the box, nursing home, etc etc. he won't be practicing gs
 
rokshana said:
because firing a resident is not the easiest thing to do...just being a douche doesn't get you fired...and while Vanderbilt hasn't released the details or what allowed them to not renew his contract, i would imagine (especially with this particular resident) its pretty rock solid.

Sounds like he really hasn't been seeing pts for at least 6 months of that time since he was on probation/leave...and like anyone else, they probably had to give him a chance to prove himself...unofficial remediation, official remediation, probation, etc...that takes time.

I'm sure if his records at Duke and Stanford were scrutinized, he probably had issues there as well...these things don't just start out of the blue.
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reportedly he was valedictorian in high school. that goes against issues at least academic ones at stanford. as a resident and as an attending I have noticed some residents despite being strong academically are a disaster with patients.

in the old days it was not uncommon for gs residents that did not make the cut to 4th year to change to plastics (yes plastics at one time was not so desirable) or anesthesia.
 
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instantkarma said:
reportedly he was valedictorian in high school. that goes against issues at least academic ones at stanford. as a resident and as an attending I have noticed some residents despite being strong academically are a disaster with patients.

in the old days it was not uncommon for gs residents that did not make the cut to 4th year to change to plastics (yes plastics at one time was not so desirable) or anesthesia.
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never said he has academic issues and that his grades weren't good, he went to Stanford and Duke after all...but there probably were behavioral issues, just easier for it to not have an adverse effect in UG and even med school...there was a paper in JAMA in the late 90s that showed that doctors that were sanctioned by a medical board, had problems as far back as medical school.

and while not dinging Vanderbilt's GS program , he is a Duke med school grad...they match at pretty prestigious places, gotta think he didn't necessarily match at his #1...
 
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instantkarma said:
google . "McDaniel v. Loyola University Medical Center et al" . public record

orthopedic resident fired during 5 th year
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My hospital terminated a Pgy 5 ortho resident as well for repeated unprofessional conduct. He has performed two intern years so all his eligibility was used up and then some. Not sure what happened to him. I was an intern so that was over 4 years ago. A couple FM residents have also been terminated for other things, but I don’t know the details.
 
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rokshana said:
never said he has academic issues and that his grades weren't good, he went to Stanford and Duke after all...but there probably were behavioral issues, just easier for it to not have an adverse effect in UG and even med school...there was a paper in JAMA in the late 90s that showed that doctors that were sanctioned by a medical board, had problems as far back as medical school.

and while not dinging Vanderbilt's GS program , he is a Duke med school grad...they match at pretty prestigious places, gotta think he didn't necessarily match at his #1...
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Check out #medtwitter for updates.

As well as: http://gomerblog.com/2018/07/eugene-gu/
 
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AdmiralChz said:
When a satirical website hits you like this, you know youve gone off the rocker. Hopefully he will fade off into the sunset.

Either that or he will report WS and others to their medical schools! He will show YOU!
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He already wanted me reported!

giphy.gif
 
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AdmiralChz said:
When a satirical website hits you like this, you know youve gone off the rocker. Hopefully he will fade off into the sunset.

Either that or he will report WS and others to their medical schools! He will show YOU!
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Already been done.

After I commented about him here, he posted on Twitter and basically encouraged his followers to harass me.
 
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Oh good.

He's posted his side of the story (click to read the whole saga):

Amazing. Maintaining his twitter follower count is more important than his moral turpitude.
 
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aProgDirector said:
Oh good.

He's posted his side of the story (click to read the whole saga):

Amazing. Maintaining his twitter follower count is more important than his moral turpitude.
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I've never been more certain that someone deserved to be fired
 
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aProgDirector said:
Oh good.

He's posted his side of the story (click to read the whole saga):

Amazing. Maintaining his twitter follower count is more important than his moral turpitude.
Click to expand...

As I put on a different forum, to summarize:
"I didn't try to have sex with her! She tried to have sex with me! And she was ugly anyway!"

I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actual accusations of criminal activity (i.e. sexual assault), but he's a narcissistic tool no matter how you read it.

has some screenshots from the girls side of one of the mentioned conversations that seem to not be in congruence with what he says.

I have spent way too much time on this ****.
 
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Raryn said:
As I put on a different forum, to summarize:
"I didn't try to have sex with her! She tried to have sex with me! And she was ugly anyway!"

I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actual accusations of criminal activity (i.e. sexual assault), but he's a narcissistic tool no matter how you read it.

has some screenshots from the girls side of one of the mentioned conversations that seem to not be in congruence with what he says.

I have spent way too much time on this ****.
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Does the prior accusation by his ex-wife color your opinion at all or do you think these are isolated incidents rather than a pattern of behavior?
 
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Raryn said:
As I put on a different forum, to summarize:
"I didn't try to have sex with her! She tried to have sex with me! And she was ugly anyway!"

I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actual accusations of criminal activity (i.e. sexual assault), but he's a narcissistic tool no matter how you read it.

has some screenshots from the girls side of one of the mentioned conversations that seem to not be in congruence with what he says.

I have spent way too much time on this ****.
Click to expand...


This is classic shaming of female sexual assault victims. It’s the standard defense, and reprehensible - ol’ Eugene just put himself in the same category as Harvey Weinstein and Billy Cosby!

Some of it is ridiculous - he says some of followers created that puppet account to help him. Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that. This definitely won’t help those residency prospects - judging from his active social media engagement (trolling) I doubt he found another gen surg program to start July 1.
 
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Winged Scapula said:
Does the prior accusation by his ex-wife color your opinion at all or do you think these are isolated incidents rather than a pattern of behavior?
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The prior accusation is evidence against him, especially given the details that have come out on just how skeevy his behavior was with his wife (establishing a pattern of misogynistic behavior), but it's a different situation. Court records shed light on Trump Jr’s tweet questioning if Duke alum Eugene Gu is a 'wife beater' (see the section "Ex-wife alleged Gu pushed her to the ground, blocked her from leaving room", most interestingly apparently one of the incidents was video taped)

He's clearly a fountain of interpersonal conflict in every aspect of his life and I certainly wouldn't want to work with him, but to be consistent with my usual stance, for something where its a single non-corroboratable incident from years past, I just assume I have no way of knowing. I fully believe her when it comes to the sockpuppeting and harassment (evidence is clear there), it's just when *criminal* accusations fly, I try not to rush to judgement. Right now we're in a "he-said she-said" mode, and he certainly seems less trustworthy, but there's minimal evidence either way. More will probably surface from this guy.

(Ex: There has been an accusation of sexual misconduct against George Takei. One. From 30 years ago. With zero corroboration. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there.)
 
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Raryn said:
The prior accusation is evidence against him, especially given the details that have come out on just how skeevy his behavior was with his wife (establishing a pattern of misogynistic behavior), but it's a different situation. Court records shed light on Trump Jr’s tweet questioning if Duke alum Eugene Gu is a 'wife beater' (see the section "Ex-wife alleged Gu pushed her to the ground, blocked her from leaving room", most interestingly apparently one of the incidents was video taped)

He's clearly a fountain of interpersonal conflict in every aspect of his life and I certainly wouldn't want to work with him, but to be consistent with my usual stance, for something where its a single non-corroboratable incident from years past, I just assume I have no way of knowing. I fully believe her when it comes to the sockpuppeting and harassment (evidence is clear there), it's just when *criminal* accusations fly, I try not to rush to judgement. Right now we're in a "he-said she-said" mode, and he certainly seems less trustworthy, but there's minimal evidence either way. More will probably surface from this guy.

(Ex: There has been an accusation of sexual misconduct against George Takei. One. From 30 years ago. With zero corroboration. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there.)
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Yeah, I generally ignored the restraining order thing that had been floating around since there was no way to confirm any of it, and it was coming out of some ugly parts of the internet. Plus, for those of you who saw me in the original thread, I saw enough other unrelated things to call out about him. (happy to see I was one of the earliest people to get blocked on twitter by him. He REALLY doesn't like when people respond with actual facts from his case). But holy crap, the last week has been worse than even I could have imagined. What a f-cking sociopath.
 
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I finally caught up on everything online... I’ve been saying from the start Eugene was a bad dude but man he’s even worse than imagined.

100% troll. Thrilled he won’t be representing physicians as a practicing doctor anywhere anytime soon.
 
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WingedOx said:
happy to see I was one of the earliest people to get blocked on twitter by him.
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He screams and rails on Trump and crew for blocking him... and then turns around and blocks others calling them racists et al.

When you look up hipocrite in the dictionary, you see Eugene Gu, MD.
 
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Every time I read about a resident getting fired and start following the links, I look at my clock to see that easily a couple of hours have passed. And in every instance, I think that the firing is justified. No hospital wants its doctors on the news for suing the President of the United States for something as relatively minor as blocking a twitter account for harassment.
 
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AdmiralChz said:
Don’t fall for Eugene’s spin. His firing had nothing to do with activism and everything to do with bad performance and ridiculous reactionism. You can’t cry racism/bullying/violence at every rebuke in residency and then sick your Twitter mob on an institution mostly with false information.

He is an activist, not a physician or a surgeon by any stretch. He’ll never get another program, and you shouldn’t want him to - is he who you want to represent the physician community for the public?
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How did he get this far through Vanderbilt surgery program if he is incompetent? I don't think it has anything to do with his activism either.

I think it had everything to do with his toxicity. After reading some of his twitter posts and what his colleagues say about him. He's just a canister of nuclear waste.
 
Drangue said:
How did he get this far through Vanderbilt surgery program if he is incompetent? I don't think it has anything to do with his activism either.

I think it had everything to do with his toxicity. After reading some of his twitter posts and what his colleagues say about him. He's just a canister of nuclear waste.
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Sometimes people keep getting promoted until they reach the level of their incompetence. Or maybe they gave him appropriate chances and he didn't improve. Who knows. What I can say is that Vanderbilt's statement is illuminating.

Vanderbilt Health: Hospitals, Doctors, Clinics and Medical Services - VUMC Statement About Surgery Resident's Concerns - Vanderbilt Health Nashville, TN

It is not VUMC’s practice to discuss publicly the specifics of the performance of any resident. However, there is nothing that precludes Dr. Gu from sharing those details, and we encourage any media representative with interest in the underlying facts of his situation to ask that Dr. Gu provide complete and unedited copies of all correspondence from VUMC relating to his status and/or continuation in VUMC’s surgery residency, or alternatively that he specifically consent to allow VUMC to do so.
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Drangue said:
How did he get this far through Vanderbilt surgery program if he is incompetent? I don't think it has anything to do with his activism either.
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What is sometimes allowed as an intern or junior level resident is expected to be fixed by the time you're a senior level resident. We allow our interns in July to not know how to work the computers, to have difficulty placing orders, etc, but the expectation is that they will learn those things and be prepared to supervise interns safely when they become senior residents.
 
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Raryn said:
Sometimes people keep getting promoted until they reach the level of their incompetence. Or maybe they gave him appropriate chances and he didn't improve. Who knows. What I can say is that Vanderbilt's statement is illuminating.

Vanderbilt Health: Hospitals, Doctors, Clinics and Medical Services - VUMC Statement About Surgery Resident's Concerns - Vanderbilt Health Nashville, TN
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That is one eloquently worded smackdown. For some reason I read it in the voice of the Warden from Cool Hand Luke (or for the slightly less old the opening to GnR's Civil War). Some men you just can't reach, indeed.
 
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I am about to launch a massive litigation against UCDenver, can’t wait to post all the details.
 
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