Life Confusion - Advice Appreciated

[BleedinBlue2016]

Hi all,

I graduated college about a week ago, and have thereafter entered into a state of life crisis that I am hoping to get out of with some help.
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When I entered college at Duke University, I came in with the expectation of fulfilling a pre-med course load; however, the pre-med track at Duke is extremely rigorous and extremely competitive, and I lost faith in myself very quickly even though I was not doing very 'poorly' (I had a mix of A's, A-'s, and maybe 2 B/B+'s in my pre-med requirements).

Instead, I decided to go the business route and went through job recruitment, taking a job as a management consultant with a top company that I will start with this fall. However, while I am excited for the opportunity and think it will be a valuable experience, there is a part of me that feels like I sold out to do something that I am not passionate about simply for the immediate gratification of the job/money. Thinking back, I feel as though I dropped pre-med not because of lack of passion/interest for the field, but because I got caught up in the competition and stress of it all. Consulting is definitely not something I see myself doing long-term, and when I do think about that I am drawn back towards medicine. However, there are a lot of things holding me back. When comparing myself to other pre-meds I know, I feel that I am at a large disadvantage to get into a good medical school. In addition, the huge amount of money it would take is extremely daunting.

I graduated with a Biology major and a minor in Global Health with a 3.7 GPA. I have a widespread reach of extracurriculars, leadership, and lots of lab experience as a research assistant.
This decision would be a lot easier for me if I had fulfilled all of the pre-med requirements, but I unfortunately never ended up taking Orgo II, Physics II, Biochem, or GenChem II. I also have not had much shadowing or volunteering experience, and have never taken the MCAT.

If I were to take the medicine route, I would do so after a year of consulting so that I could get some job experience and time to make sure that this is something I truly want to do. However, I do want to start thinking about it as early as possible.

My primary questions are: what is the most cost effective and efficient way to get my course requirements done without compromising on institution credibility (I don't need a career change postbac because I only need to take about 5 more courses, right?)
In addition, how should I go about getting some shadowing/volunteering hours?
Would it be possible to do these things while also working?
How difficult is it to go through the application process without a university backing? How do you get rec letters, etc. after being out of college for a while?

Sorry about the long intro, but any and all advice, especially from those who have been in a similar position, is really, truly appreciated!

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[DrMikeP]

My primary questions are: what is the most cost effective and efficient way to get my course requirements done without compromising on institution credibility (I don't need a career change postbac because I only need to take about 5 more courses, right?)

* You need just the courses, which the easiest way it to go back for a 2nd bachelors (say bio) and take the courses, so you don't have problems being stuck registering last. If you do well and get into med school no need to complete the 2nd degree.

In addition, how should I go about getting some shadowing/volunteering hours?

*Lots of recs on SDN about how to do such. Many look for agencies that work with low income, hospice, etc for volunteer. Shadowing requires effort to find docs, but you start local. You may want to consider a job as a scribe.

Would it be possible to do these things while also working?

*I did it while working around 60hrs a week, so it is possible.

How difficult is it to go through the application process without a university backing? How do you get rec letters, etc. after being out of college for a while?

*Get to know professors in science classes you are in, as you'll need 2 sci and sometimes 1 non science. It's a challenge but one prof I knew very well 10yrs earlier and she wrote me a LOR.

Do lots of reading on SDN and many questions will be answered!

Best of Luck

 

[Sardinia]

@BleedinBlue2016 My opinion is likely unpopular, but I'd recommend that you run with the current job and see how far it takes you. It's a common response among a lot of graduates when they get exposed to the working world to miss their old days in the dorm where they attended lecture and focused on completing homework. The reason why I recommend running with your current job; please note I am not saying walking, skipping, or jogging is because your opening paragraph seems like you yourself aren't aware of the itch that you want scratched. If your regret was a genuine feeling and not a symptomatic response to starting a career then you should have felt something when you decided to not pursue the II subjects. I'm really getting vibes that this is some residual regret and not something soul wrenching.

Another thing that is probably unpopular is that I don't like it when people tell you that they can work full time and balance a course load. That's absurd. Some people have innate advantages in the type of work they do e.g. someone who works in a capacity where they get a quiet area where they can focus on academics while they work is at a marginal advantage compared to someone whose on a strict timeline or a competitive work environment. You shouldn't be asking us whether it's doable. You should be giving your job your 24/7 until you develop habits, routines, and short cuts. The best person to make an assessment about whether it's doable for yourself is going to be your own acumen centered around your strengths, weaknesses, job, and institution you end up attending.

Most cost effective method of gaining credits would likely be doing community college. Recommendation letters can be obtained from any professor you took a course with or had a relationship with in college e.g. professional/research relationship. You could also obtain these from the professors you take courses with to complete your pre-reqs if you didn't form a close relationship during your four years at Duke. Honestly though, I don't understand why you would regret your decision a week after graduation with it all being said and done.

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

My primary questions are: what is the most cost effective and efficient way to get my course requirements done without compromising on institution credibility (I don't need a career change postbac because I only need to take about 5 more courses, right?)

* You need just the courses, which the easiest way it to go back for a 2nd bachelors (say bio) and take the courses, so you don't have problems being stuck registering last. If you do well and get into med school no need to complete the 2nd degree.

In addition, how should I go about getting some shadowing/volunteering hours?

*Lots of recs on SDN about how to do such. Many look for agencies that work with low income, hospice, etc for volunteer. Shadowing requires effort to find docs, but you start local. You may want to consider a job as a scribe.

Would it be possible to do these things while also working?

*I did it while working around 60hrs a week, so it is possible.

How difficult is it to go through the application process without a university backing? How do you get rec letters, etc. after being out of college for a while?

*Get to know professors in science classes you are in, as you'll need 2 sci and sometimes 1 non science. It's a challenge but one prof I knew very well 10yrs earlier and she wrote me a LOR.

Do lots of reading on SDN and many questions will be answered!

Best of Luck

Thank you so much for your response! These are definitely some of the things I will have to look into some more over the course of the next year.

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

@BleedinBlue2016 My opinion is likely unpopular, but I'd recommend that you run with the current job and see how far it takes you. It's a common response among a lot of graduates when they get exposed to the working world to miss their old days in the dorm where they attended lecture and focused on completing homework. The reason why I recommend running with your current job; please note I am not saying walking, skipping, or jogging is because your opening paragraph seems like you yourself aren't aware of the itch that you want scratched. If your regret was a genuine feeling and not a symptomatic response to starting a career then you should have felt something when you decided to not pursue the II subjects. I'm really getting vibes that this is some residual regret and not something soul wrenching.

Another thing that is probably unpopular is that I don't like it when people tell you that they can work full time and balance a course load. That's absurd. Some people have innate advantages in the type of work they do e.g. someone who works in a capacity where they get a quiet area where they can focus on academics while they work is at a marginal advantage compared to someone whose on a strict timeline or a competitive work environment. You shouldn't be asking us whether it's doable. You should be giving your job your 24/7 until you develop habits, routines, and short cuts. The best person to make an assessment about whether it's doable for yourself is going to be your own acumen centered around your strengths, weaknesses, job, and institution you end up attending.

Most cost effective method of gaining credits would likely be doing community college. Recommendation letters can be obtained from any professor you took a course with or had a relationship with in college e.g. professional/research relationship. You could also obtain these from the professors you take courses with to complete your pre-reqs if you didn't form a close relationship during your four years at Duke. Honestly though, I don't understand why you would regret your decision a week after graduation with it all being said and done.

@Sardinia I think your opinion is a totally valid and understandable one, and definitely something I have also been grappling with - is this something I really want to do enough to give up other opportunities and fully commit myself - time, energy, and money-wise - to, or is it just a passing phase of regret that I am going through as I finish up my undergraduate career. I'm honestly not too sure of the answer yet, which is the main reason why I hope to take this next year (and possibly multiple years) to fully immerse myself in my consulting job and really think about what I want. I have not yet started my job, so there is no real justification for my feelings of 'selling out' or being unhappy in it. It is simply a gut reaction that I have had over the last few weeks.
If it is the case that I desire to go back to medicine even after taking this time in consulting, I think I would take time off of work to focus on coursework (because as you said, it is very hard to get the best of both words in that regard).

 

[GreenDuck12]

Email your professors that you would like to ask recommendation letters from now for a letter to keep in your file. When you get ready to apply, email them back with a copy of the original letter, discuss what you have been working on since graduating and ask that they write you an updated letter.

With management consulting (assuming one of the big three firms) you are going to be looking at incredibly long and varied hours. I would recommend you work for little bit while you figure out what you schedule can be and what you can/cannot handle. Don't risk your GPA by signing up for classes only to have to miss an exam due to a presentation that has to be redone / traveling to meet a client.

While you work, research your options, and contact physicians you can shadow. With your connections in the consulting world, my guess is you would be able to gain some really unique perspectives. Also, use that time to save money for medical school. Graduate loans come with heavy costs (7% interest per year). Anything you can do to lessen the amount of loans you take out is advantageous.

Lastly, an existential crisis right after graduating is quite common. An existential crisis after working for a few years is common. The trick is to carefully research your options and take steps (not necessarily leaps) in the direction of your interests. Best of luck to you.

 

[Sardinia]

@BleedinBlue2016 Working involves a whole different type of commitment and requires you to be proactive in a different sense than being a pre-med. I would take it seriously and see what experiences you get out of it because you will find yourself pressed in uncomfortable areas but it will give you a perspective that will help you determine what options you can pursue being a pre-med in the future. Unlike a lot of people on this site who come across as being "full pre-med", I've always believed that the most important thing for every undergraduate was to strive to be financially independent. When you begin seriously trying to fund yourself without loans you begin to narrow down realistic and sensible options for your own future. Also I really believe that you don't discover yourself until you start funding yourself. I think that money is always going to be hard to come by so by no means am I stating that you will arrive at a stable income. However, the fact that you are able to lock down a job after graduating from a top tier University will give you a spring board for shaping yourself as someone beyond just a pre-med.

The most important thing is to set goals for yourself at the end of every week and at the end of every month. When you break down what you need to do in a logical manner and figure out what is a realistic expectation then you can start actualizing a time line for yourself about how satisfied you are and what you need to do in order to either change jobs or get to the next stage. It's not going to be easy, but when a patient throws up all over you or you get stool all over your hand it will give you perspective that getting your hands dirty is an integral part of the job in more than one sense of the term.

 

[Meridian32]

Hi - a few more points in addition to the excellent advice above:

1) If after giving consulting a fair shot, you decide that medicine is still your calling, your consulting background will be an asset in applying to med school - there is a lot of focus in medicine these days on accountable care, cost effectiveness and quality improvement, and your background is a good fit to this. If this sounds interesting to you, and you do well in consulting, you could consider MD/MBA programs - consulting is a common background for applicants to these programs.

2) For you, the highest yield way to learn more about medicine would be to go through the Duke alumni website, search for alumni who are doctors and e-mail them to ask for in person or phone informational interviews. Talk to doctors in a wide variety of specialties. Buy them coffee and ask about the pros/cons of their work. Invariably, some of them will offer to let you shadow.

Congrats on graduating. Enjoy consulting, have fun and learn a lot!

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

Email your professors that you would like to ask recommendation letters from now for a letter to keep in your file. When you get ready to apply, email them back with a copy of the original letter, discuss what you have been working on since graduating and ask that they write you an updated letter.

With management consulting (assuming one of the big three firms) you are going to be looking at incredibly long and varied hours. I would recommend you work for little bit while you figure out what you schedule can be and what you can/cannot handle. Don't risk your GPA by signing up for classes only to have to miss an exam due to a presentation that has to be redone / traveling to meet a client.

While you work, research your options, and contact physicians you can shadow. With your connections in the consulting world, my guess is you would be able to gain some really unique perspectives. Also, use that time to save money for medical school. Graduate loans come with heavy costs (7% interest per year). Anything you can do to lessen the amount of loans you take out is advantageous.

Lastly, an existential crisis right after graduating is quite common. An existential crisis after working for a few years is common. The trick is to carefully research your options and take steps (not necessarily leaps) in the direction of your interests. Best of luck to you.

Letting professors who could potentially do recommendations know now is definitely a great idea, because I think that would be useful no matter what graduate degree I end up wanting to pursue. Like you mentioned, I am pretty sure that my job next year will be quite demanding, and if I am to go towards medicine I would like to fully commit and take time off to do so. The downside to that is that I will be losing money as I rack up my pre-reqs, but I think it is something that will end up being beneficial. Thank you for your help!

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

Will second the advice of others regarding continuing to work. I have had zero trouble working full time and doing a postbac.

After cursory research, I thought about going to Columbia's postbac. But direct costs of their postbac is ~80k, then you need to tack on extra cost of living in NYC - about 1500 per month. So 100k in extra costs. Then I would have had to have quit to go there, adding another 85k or so in after-tax income. Is the Columbia name worth 200k? I'm thinking it is not.

Several high-quality institutions have extension schools. Harvard, Dartmouth, UTA, and UCB come to mind, where classes are about $500-$2k per course. Mostly these are open enrollment, or limited-counseling enrollment where you just have to explain academic goals and show competency. Most of the courses at these programs are offered in the evenings, allowing you to work during the day.



Mer...I don't like limiting belief systems like this.

This really depends on 1) income and 2) spending. I appreciate that with lifestyle inflation and very left-brained approaches to employment, people do sometimes put themselves in binds. But this is not reality, merely a common choice, like smoking cigarettes or playing the lottery.

Six figure jobs are not that hard to come by if you have the ability to clear all the hurdles of medical school. You can make money in pretty much any industry...just pick one and develop a unique and valuable skillset within it, preferably where you can self employ.

I have looked up a couple of the extension programs, and that definitely seems like something that I could do, especially because I only have to take a couple of courses and not do a full career-change postbacc. This is something I will have to look more into as the year progresses. Even if I cannot do consulting, the promise of potentially being able to work part-time somewhere is hopeful.

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

Hi - a few more points in addition to the excellent advice above:

1) If after giving consulting a fair shot, you decide that medicine is still your calling, your consulting background will be an asset in applying to med school - there is a lot of focus in medicine these days on accountable care, cost effectiveness and quality improvement, and your background is a good fit to this. If this sounds interesting to you, and you do well in consulting, you could consider MD/MBA programs - consulting is a common background for applicants to these programs.

2) For you, the highest yield way to learn more about medicine would be to go through the Duke alumni website, search for alumni who are doctors and e-mail them to ask for in person or phone informational interviews. Talk to doctors in a wide variety of specialties. Buy them coffee and ask about the pros/cons of their work. Invariably, some of them will offer to let you shadow.

Congrats on graduating. Enjoy consulting, have fun and learn a lot!

Yes - that is certainly something I have heard. Having a unique perspective can hopefully be beneficial, especially if it potentially shows that I tried other fields and yet still found myself drawn towards medicine.
I think reaching out to alumni would actually be a great idea - next year I will be in a city with a large medical center that I'm sure tons of Duke alumni are working at, so that could be a really good starting point for volunteering/shadowing! (both of which hopefully shouldn't be as hard to take on with a job than classes)
Thank you!