Liberty University-COM

[polylux]

Going back to the LUCOM thing... I just wanted to note that while I personally would not got to LUCOM even if it was my only acceptance, I do have a friend currently at LUCOM and she is just happy to be in medical school and pursuing her dreams. There have been similar conversations about LECOM, where there's even a website dedicated to LECOM-hate. Thing is, both schools are going to make you a doctor. Maybe you won't have as comfortable of a ride as you'd like, but you'll get there, and for many people, that's more than enough.

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[Anthonyweiner]

Are you (the med student study body as a whole) required to attend church service every week?

No. There is an hour blocked off during the day every Wednesday to participate in convocation if you choose to. Most people usually will study or take an early lunch. I nap in the OMM lab upstairs.

 

[j4pac]

In the same breath you also should state that calling the origin of Earth in 7 days 2,000 years ago fact-- which true Christians do, and which true Christians expect others to believe (among other things) to be "saved"-- is at the very least, just as ignorant.

As someone who has debated from either side of the coin, I believe that bringing in the denomination of God-believing religions is pointless. The ultimate question is..."Is there a deity or God?" Because with a God, all things are possible. You are talking about a deity with the capability of creating something from nothing...with ability to create the laws of science and therefore alter them. So how are you going to confine a deity to the laws of science, which according to those who believe...created the laws of science?

Do you see the problem in trying to have a legitimate debate over this topic? You can't hold religion by the standards of science, just as you can't hold science to the standards of religion.

So with all of that said...I think that you misunderstood me. I never said that those who believe in macroevolution are ignorant, anymore than those who don't. What is ignorant is considering anything scientific fact...especially macroevolution.

 

[touchpause13]

Ok, I can't contribute to the evolution debate, but hopefully my insight from my interview experience here may be valuable to someone. I do wish LUCOM success in its mission to develop competent, service-oriented physicians.

LUCOM was my first interview this cycle and it was overall a good experience. I was accepted, but declined the acceptance. Evidently I hid my discomfort during the interview day pretty well as they thought I would be a good match for the school, and I did not reciprocate. I did have the conversation with several folks about whether I should attend LUCOM if it were my only acceptance. To put that in context, I'm about 10 years older than the average applicant, so the thought of delaying matriculation one more year was not something I considered lightly! Here were some of the red flags for me:

- The Associate Dean was describing Compass Groups (which, I think are a fantastic mentorship idea), and she mentioned how one of her students was going to move in with her fiancé. She described how she tried to "counsel" the student out of this idea. Coming from an extremely NON-traditional background, I had serious concerns about how I would be accepted at the school if they felt that a couple living together before marriage was a problem.

- I asked the question about how LUCOM handles religiously "controversial" medical treatment options, such as abortion. The answer I received was that they would try to persuade the patient to make the "right" choice first.

- I was asked multiple times in my interview about my religious beliefs, which made me quite uncomfortable. I know, I should have expected this. Furthermore, I was asked about what religious beliefs I would pass on to my potential future children. I spent 12 years in Catholic school, and my current religious beliefs are fairly non-traditional. I was wary of applying to religiously-affiliated schools to begin with, but I truly do appreciate LUCOM's focus on and dedication to service, which I hope is a common bond between all religious/non-religious beliefs.

- While we were waiting for our interview time, one of the members of the admissions staff struck up a conversation about how unfortunate it would be to have to treat transgender patients.

- Lastly, I don't think they have a cafeteria or food options in the building. This is a problem for me...

I will say that all the students we met were awesome and I would be happy to be classmates with any of them. Fortunately, I found a few other school options that are definitely a better fit for me.

This is extremely concerning, basically these are the huge problems I have with LUCOM. I remember last year a member on here sent an email to the Dean asking if living with his girlfriend would be a problem for the school and the dean said yes, it would be.

The bolded I find particularly unethical. Seriously cringing right now

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Let's be completely clear on the nomenclature here. No one believes in evolution.

You either accept it as reality or you don't.

Whether you wish to make a fuss about whether or not it conflicts with creation stories that you hold inherently important to your sense of being is a different story.

Evolution fundamentally is not an applied theory. You don't need to use it when talking about individual organism or biomedical science. But the moment you want to relate things together and paint a big unifying picture, without evolution it all truly falls apart.

 

[SkipJunior]

Ok, I can't contribute to the evolution debate, but hopefully my insight from my interview experience here may be valuable to someone. I do wish LUCOM success in its mission to develop competent, service-oriented physicians.

LUCOM was my first interview this cycle and it was overall a good experience. I was accepted, but declined the acceptance. Evidently I hid my discomfort during the interview day pretty well as they thought I would be a good match for the school, and I did not reciprocate. I did have the conversation with several folks about whether I should attend LUCOM if it were my only acceptance. To put that in context, I'm about 10 years older than the average applicant, so the thought of delaying matriculation one more year was not something I considered lightly! Here were some of the red flags for me:

- The Associate Dean was describing Compass Groups (which, I think are a fantastic mentorship idea), and she mentioned how one of her students was going to move in with her fiancé. She described how she tried to "counsel" the student out of this idea. Coming from an extremely NON-traditional background, I had serious concerns about how I would be accepted at the school if they felt that a couple living together before marriage was a problem.

- I asked the question about how LUCOM handles religiously "controversial" medical treatment options, such as abortion. The answer I received was that they would try to persuade the patient to make the "right" choice first.

- I was asked multiple times in my interview about my religious beliefs, which made me quite uncomfortable. I know, I should have expected this. Furthermore, I was asked about what religious beliefs I would pass on to my potential future children. I spent 12 years in Catholic school, and my current religious beliefs are fairly non-traditional. I was wary of applying to religiously-affiliated schools to begin with, but I truly do appreciate LUCOM's focus on and dedication to service, which I hope is a common bond between all religious/non-religious beliefs.

- While we were waiting for our interview time, one of the members of the admissions staff struck up a conversation about how unfortunate it would be to have to treat transgender patients.

- Lastly, I don't think they have a cafeteria or food options in the building. This is a problem for me...

I will say that all the students we met were awesome and I would be happy to be classmates with any of them. Fortunately, I found a few other school options that are definitely a better fit for me.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with the SDN community. This is the reason why I started this thread. I'm sure your post will be very useful to pre-meds considering LUCOM. I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

 

[SkipJunior]

Anthonyweiner messaged me and told me he is willing to answer questions from individuals. So if you're considering LUCOM or know someone who is and want to ask questions to a current LUCOM student, feel free to PM Anthony.

This thread and members like Anthony and RunninGirl3 are part of your bank of resources when it comes to LUCOM. Take advantage of them!

 

[asdf123g]

@SkipJunior : anthony does not accept messages from people. Only people he messages.

 

[SkipJunior]

@SkipJunior : anthony does not accept messages from people. Only people he messages.

I'm confused. Anthony told you not to message him?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Again you are running into the issue of dragging people into stuff...

Only HE can choose who he wants to talk to. But you have offered him up.

 

[SkipJunior]

Again you are running into the issue of dragging people into stuff...

Only HE can choose who he wants to talk to. But you have offered him up.

Anthony private messaged me and told me that he will answer any questions about LUCOM from pre-meds or anyone else. He is willing to do it. I wouldn't have "offered him up" unless he gave me explicit permission, which he did.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Hmm, my bad. Just was reading through his posts here and yours and it seemed like you offered him up.

 

[asdf123g]

@SkipJunior : we are unable to start convos with him as he restricted his profile to such. The only way to PM him is if he PMs u first.

 

[SkipJunior]

@SkipJunior : we are unable to start convos with him as he restricted his profile to such. The only way to PM him is if he PMs u first.

Thank you for letting us know about this right away.

@Anthonyweiner , I know you're willing to answer questions about LUCOM. I had assumed that you would be okay with PMs as a mode of communication since you sent me a PM instead of posting in this thread. Would you prefer if people post their questions in this thread and then tag you?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Thank you for letting us know about this right away.

@Anthonyweiner , I know you're willing to answer questions about LUCOM. I had assumed that you would be okay with PMs as a mode of communication since you sent me a PM instead of posting in this thread. Would you prefer if people post their questions in this thread and then tag you?

Sorry, I didn't know I had my profile set that way. Anyone may PM me with questions or post them here if they wish.

 

[Major]

Sorry, I didn't know I had my profile set that way. Anyone may PM me with questions or post them here if they wish.

Thank you for answering my previous question. How are your clinical rotation sites shaping up? Any large hospital that will be a main site for all your core rotations?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Thank you for answering my previous question. How are your clinical rotation sites shaping up? Any large hospital that will be a main site for all your core rotations?

Hi, we will be working with Centra which is the major hospital system here in lynchburg. LUCOM is also in the process of building a clinic which will be open later this year. I believe there are a number of offsite locations available too.

 

[SkipJunior]

Again you are running into the issue of dragging people into stuff...

Only HE can choose who he wants to talk to. But you have offered him up.

After reading Anthony's posts this morning, do you still think I'm dragging people into stuff? Do you still think I offered him up? I get that you were trying to correct me and I appreciate that but maybe you should get your facts together before you accuse people of stuff and potentially damage their reputation.

Get your crap together man.

 

[AlteredScale]

After reading Anthony's posts this morning, do you still think I'm dragging people into stuff? Do you still think I offered him up? I get that you were trying to correct me and I appreciate that but maybe you should get your facts together before you accuse people of stuff and potentially damage their reputation.

Get your crap together man.

He already admitted fault I thought, no?

Hmm, my bad. Just was reading through his posts here and yours and it seemed like you offered him up.

Let's try and keep this on topic. Are there any more questions or concerns you have regarding LUCOM?

 

[asdf123g]

Hi, we will be working with Centra which is the major hospital system here in lynchburg. LUCOM is also in the process of building a clinic which will be open later this year. I believe there are a number of offsite locations available too.

I thought someone had said said (somewhere; maybe this thread? idk) LUCOM has really bad rotations and many are not set up...I take it this is not true? Do you know what specialties are available?

Also, is it true you get expelled for having premarital sex while attending (granted the administration finds out)?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yea just going to jump out of this thread altogether. Nothing good has come from it in my opinion except a couple anecdotes from students and me and Touchpause finding peace with each other heh.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

I thought someone had said said (somewhere; maybe this thread? idk) LUCOM has really bad rotations and many are not set up...I take it this is not true? Do you know what specialties are available?

Also, is it true you get expelled for having premarital sex while attending (granted the administration finds out)?

Our rotations are pretty solid for being a new school, in my opinion. A lot of people like to spread rumors or things they've heard from others with no real source simply because we are LUCOM.

I have never heard about the premarital sex thing but I checked our student handbook and code of conduct. Neither mention anything about premarital sex. However, I don't know about any rules the undergrad campus may have.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Ugh where on God's green earth are your clerkship sites on the LUCOM website? They used to be easier to find?

Back in the day when I looked, they were crap, if we are just calling it as it is. Obviously they have all of the specialties and time required by COCA, but WHERE the rotations were at was just awful/seemed inadequate (quality and quantity wise). Do you have an updated link that people can find, I just cant seem to find anything on it now. I dont recall Centra on there back when I looked, so they may have gotten better than in the past.

Also are you allowed to leave the LUCOM cores and go to ACGME rotations or are you required to do AOA sites?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Ugh where on God's green earth are your clerkship sites on the LUCOM website? They used to be easier to find?

Back in the day when I looked, they were crap, if we are just calling it as it is. Obviously they have all of the specialties and time required by COCA, but WHERE the rotations were at was just awful/seemed inadequate (quality and quantity wise). Do you have an updated link that people can find, I just cant seem to find anything on it now. I dont recall Centra on there back when I looked, so they may have gotten better than in the past.

Also are you allowed to leave the LUCOM cores and go to ACGME rotations or are you required to do AOA sites?

Hello, check out the affiliates link on the lucom page. With the addition of our new clinic, there have been some minor changes to rotations but our affiliations with the large hospital systems still remains the same.

We are allowed to setup away rotations anywhere as long as the accreditation criteria is met and there is an interest from at least 3-4 students if I remember correctly.

We do have a meeting with the dean next week that is specifically for information about rotations and such. Let me know of any other questions you have and I'll try to get answers directly from him.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Gotcha thanks... for others:
http://www.liberty.edu/lucom/index.cfm?PID=28252

Ok NOW I am officially off the thread heh.

 

[cliquesh]

I personally think you need at least a 300+ bed hospital to have a decent clinical experience.

 

[asdf123g]

I personally think you need at least a 300+ bed hospital to have a decent clinical experience.

what makes you say that? (ignorant premed here). Any other factors to look into when considering if a school has "good" rotations or not?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

I personally think you need at least a 300+ bed hospital to have a decent clinical experience.

Lynchburg General is a 358 bed hospital.

 

[AlteredScale]

Lynchburg General is a 358 bed hospital.

Approximately how many LUCOM students are at Lynchburg?

Where do the rest go?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Approximately how many LUCOM students are at Lynchburg?

Where do the rest go?

We have about 155 students. Lynchburg General is just one location of a system of hospitals. Centra alone has over 500 beds. Most students will chose to stay in Lynchburg, others will set up their own away rotations, some will go to the Farmville community hospital about 30 miles east of Lynchburg.

 

[AlteredScale]

We have about 155 students. Lynchburg General is just one location of a system of hospitals. Centra alone has over 500 beds. Most students will chose to stay in Lynchburg, others will set up their own away rotations, some will go to the Farmville community hospital about 30 miles east of Lynchburg.

Thanks for the info!

 

[jamcat]

I really need to stay off of this thread and I feel badly about derailing it but it is so deeply troubling to me when I see people (and future doctors at that!) making the false equivalency of creationism and evolution. It's simply not okay.

I agree...evolution as defined by population genetics is a scientific fact. Many of the macroevolution theories, on the other hand, require as much faith as many "religions". And those theories are what are being treated as science by many professors at our colleges.

I don't mean to be rude, but have you actually read the evidence for macroevolution? PM me if you want a list of papers to get you started. So what you're saying is that all these people who have devoted their lives to studying this stuff are wrong and you, who haven't studied it, are right?

Also, science is a process, not a list of facts. So what is being "treated as science" as you put it, isn't something that professors just make up.

Whereas the question you DONT care about (origin of life) is something I do care about greatly and is my reason for not believing in evolution in the first place.

Evolution does not address the origin of life. So if that's your reason for not believing in evolution in the first place...

Macroevolution is a much more difficult concept to grasp...and to call that scientific fact is quite honestly ignorant.

To assess the available evidence and come to the conclusion that it's no stronger than the evidence for creationism is quite honestly ignorant. Again, I'm happy to discuss the science if you're interested in the science. We can do it via PM so as not to derail the thread further.

Threads like these scare the heck out of me.

 

[jamcat]

If evolution is 100% in conflict with someone's religious beliefs, then all that means is their religious beliefs are wrong. Evolution is not an ideology or a belief, it is a scientific fact. If someone doesn't "believe" in evolution, they have no business pursuing a career in anything related to biology. It's just as stupid as a physicist that doesn't believe in gravity.

Bingo. If you don't "believe" in evolution, you're willing to let personal belief interfere with overwhelming scientific evidence. That is the problem with not "believing" in evolution in the context of medicine.

I couldn't give two hoots whether you believe if evolution or not; I am seriously worried when science has to go through a religion filter before it's "believed." Because who's to say what other science now or in the future, perhaps some of it more relevant to medicine, will be in conflict with your religious beliefs? It's the integrity of science that needs to be protected.

With that, I'm off of this thread, and I sincerely apologize for derailing it. I am going to do my best to forget that a bevy of future doctors have such little regard for science.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

I really need to stay off of this thread and I feel badly about derailing it but it is so deeply troubling to me when I see people (and future doctors at that!) making the false equivalency of creationism and evolution. It's simply not okay.



I don't mean to be rude, but have you actually read the evidence for macroevolution? PM me if you want a list of papers to get you started. So what you're saying is that all these people who have devoted their lives to studying this stuff are wrong and you, who haven't studied it, are right?

Also, science is a process, not a list of facts. So what is being "treated as science" as you put it, isn't something that professors just make up.



Evolution does not address the origin of life. So if that's your reason for not believing in evolution in the first place...



To assess the available evidence and come to the conclusion that it's no stronger than the evidence for creationism is quite honestly ignorant. Again, I'm happy to discuss the science if you're interested in the science. We can do it via PM so as not to derail the thread further.

Threads like these scare the heck out of me.

To be fair, you are not arguing with someone who actually attends LUCOM (as far as I know). I have yet to meet anyone here that rejects science.

 

[j4pac]

I really need to stay off of this thread and I feel badly about derailing it but it is so deeply troubling to me when I see people (and future doctors at that!) making the false equivalency of creationism and evolution. It's simply not okay.



I don't mean to be rude, but have you actually read the evidence for macroevolution? PM me if you want a list of papers to get you started. So what you're saying is that all these people who have devoted their lives to studying this stuff are wrong and you, who haven't studied it, are right?

Also, science is a process, not a list of facts. So what is being "treated as science" as you put it, isn't something that professors just make up.



Evolution does not address the origin of life. So if that's your reason for not believing in evolution in the first place...



To assess the available evidence and come to the conclusion that it's no stronger than the evidence for creationism is quite honestly ignorant. Again, I'm happy to discuss the science if you're interested in the science. We can do it via PM so as not to derail the thread further.

Threads like these scare the heck out of me.

I never said that Creationism has strong scientific evidence. Why is it anytime someone questions the validity of macro evolution as scientific fact...people automatically attack Creationism? That isn't how science works bub. They both require a significant amount of religion.

As for your papers...I would shocked if I haven't read them.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

@jamcat
I'll be sure to tell the hundreds of thousands of religious physicians across the world that they should stop practicing.

You and all the other pre meds and med students must know the real answers to life. They should just close shop.

 

[jamcat]

I never said that Creationism has strong scientific evidence. Why is it anytime someone questions the validity of macro evolution as scientific fact...people automatically attack Creationism? That isn't how science works bub. They both require a significant amount of religion.

As for your papers...I would shocked if I haven't read them.

I dunno. One of my majors in undergrad was evolutionary bio and I did evo bio research, so I might have a paper or two on ya.

OK then, let's leave creationism out of it. Tell me how believing in evolution requires religion.

@jamcat
I'll be sure to tell the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of religious physicians across the world that they should stop practicing.

Oh, I know plenty of religious physicians who are wonderful people and have a high regard for science. Religion is in no way incompatible with belief in evolution.

But if you mean you'll tell the physicians who don't believe in evolution they shouldn't be practicing, I'll be right there with you.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

This crap will just never end. Seriously I keep trying to get out of this thread. No one here can just accept that maybe they don't know all the answers? That maybe both sides, as j4pac has said, take a significant amount of "religion" or faith.

Everyone (including me) is just arguing a point that has no definitive answer. So why are we continuing to argue it? Just leave it be and let the thread die. Everyone is just repeating the same crap over and over again and it's never going to get anywhere.

 

[jamcat]

Your logic is so incredibly circular. Nobody is saying that anybody has all the answers, but I *am* saying that the whatever we come up with to fill in the gaps--for some that's religion--must conform to the answers we *do* have.

But I agree that it's likely pointless discussing this. I'm out for good this time. This thread makes me so very sad.

 

[SkipJunior]

Lynchburg General is a 358 bed hospital.

Reason # 1001 why it's awesome that a current LUCOM student is available to answer questions and dispel misconceptions in a LUCOM thread. Thanks again buddy!

 

[cliquesh]

what makes you say that? (ignorant premed here). Any other factors to look into when considering if a school has "good" rotations or not?

It's kind of the minimum number of beds you need to see a variety bread and butter cases and some interesting cases, and it's big enough to have specialists in most fields, which prevents semi-interesting cases from being shipped to the closest university hospital. Additionally, larger hospitals, at least from my experience, have more resources for medical students and more structured rotations. Moreover, larger hospitals often have residencies, which means the hospital staff is use to training students/residents, and the environment will more likely prepare you for intern year.

To me the only realistic way to judge a rotation list is to see how many of the rotation sites are bigger (250-300+ beds) and how many of the rotation sites have residencies. The bigger the hospital and the more residencies the better.

Other people on here will disagree with me. Some students have had wonderful experiences at smaller hospitals or with one on one preceptorships. That was not my experience, however.

 

[SkipJunior]

Your logic is so incredibly circular. Nobody is saying that anybody has all the answers, but I *am* saying that the whatever we come up with to fill in the gaps--for some that's religion--must conform to the answers we *do* have.

But I agree that it's likely pointless discussing this. I'm out for good this time. This thread makes me so very sad.

On the contrary, this thread makes me very happy. I'm focusing on the main goal of this thread, not the sideline discussions. When I started this thread, I was hoping fervently that people with direct experiences with LUCOM would reply to this thread. I'm happy to note that several people who interviewed at & toured LUCOM have posted in this thread and we even have a current LUCOM student on board whose input has been invaluable to this thread. I consider this thread to be a success and I hope many pre-meds read through it.

As for your topic of interest, I suggest you start a new thread if you want to have a serious discussion about it with other SDN members.

 

[j4pac]

I dunno. One of my majors in undergrad was evolutionary bio and I did evo bio research, so I might have a paper or two on ya.

OK then, let's leave creationism out of it. Tell me how believing in evolution requires religion.



Oh, I know plenty of religious physicians who are wonderful people and have a high regard for science. Religion is in no way incompatible with belief in evolution.

But if you mean you'll tell the physicians who don't believe in evolution they shouldn't be practicing, I'll be right there with you.

I also have a very strong background...every upper level genetics and ecology class...along with a very good evolutionary biology course.

If you have any good articles written after 2010, I would like to read.

 

[j4pac]

but what other explanation for the development of life is as grounded in rationality, logic, reason and objectiveness? Certainly not creationism, invisible flying spaghetti monsters, or other unfalsifiable claims.

One is free to contest the concept of macroevolution, so long as their conclusions are arrived at through the scientific method, rationality, logic, reason, and objectiveness-- and not unfalsifiable beliefs or premises.

From the ABIM Charter on Physician Responsibility:

Commitment to Scientific Knowledge
"Physicians have a duty to uphold scientific standards, to promote research, and to create new knowledge and ensure its appropriate use. The profession is responsible for the integrity of this knowledge, which is based on scientific evidence and physician experience."

So because a theory has more scientific support than a theory based on faith...that makes the theory fact?

Just because macro evolution may be the best explanation doesn't mean that it is the explanation.

 

[user3]

So because a theory has more scientific support than a theory based on faith...that makes the theory fact?

Just because macro evolution may be the best explanation doesn't mean that it is the explanation.

once you venture outside the scope of the scientific method, you're opening yourself up to believe just about anything you want to conjure.

 

[deleted407021]

How??

Is it an ideology that I also believe the Earth circles around the sun? I just don't get the comparison in the slightest.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So much annoying in this thread.... and yet too much to tackle at once...


Can we just go back to the part about Liberty University being founded by one of the most hateful Neo-Theo-Conservative nutjobs that likely is roasting in the hell he spent every day of his life wishing upon others?

 

[user3]

So much annoying in this thread.... and yet too much to tackle at once...


Can we just go back to the part about Liberty University being founded by one of the most hateful Neo-Theo-Conservative nutjobs that likely is roasting in the hell he spent every day of his life wishing upon others?

 

[Anthonyweiner]

So much annoying in this thread.... and yet too much to tackle at once...


Can we just go back to the part about Liberty University being founded by one of the most hateful Neo-Theo-Conservative nutjobs that likely is roasting in the hell he spent every day of his life wishing upon others?

Yes, Jerry Falwell founded Liberty University back in 1971. He was a pretty controversial person but LU has changed and grown a lot since then. Jerry passed away in 2007; LUCOM was opened in 2014. It was always his dream for Liberty to have a medical school that would serve the local community. But heres how many times a day at LUCOM his radical beliefs are taught, spoken of, or even inferred: Zero. How many times do I hear his name? Zero. Liberty University and LUCOM is as open and accepting as any of the universities I've attended or worked at. We have a diverse group of students in both ethnicity and religion. We are not Jerry Falwell and I believe any institution has the ability to grow past what their founders were. LUCOM students are not recruited because they think gays caused 9/11 (thanks User3 for the link) but for our desire to serve others.

Just as I would not judge you based on the character of your university's founder, I challenge you to wait and reserve judgment. Make a decision after you see and hear about the impact LUCOM students will make as students and as doctors.

 

[hallowmann]

It's kind of the minimum number of beds you need to see a variety bread and butter cases and some interesting cases, and it's big enough to have specialists in most fields, which prevents semi-interesting cases from being shipped to the closest university hospital. Additionally, larger hospitals, at least from my experience, have more resources for medical students and more structured rotations. Moreover, larger hospitals often have residencies, which means the hospital staff is use to training students/residents, and the environment will more likely prepare you for intern year.

To me the only realistic way to judge a rotation list is to see how many of the rotation sites are bigger (250-300+ beds) and how many of the rotation sites have residencies. The bigger the hospital and the more residencies the better.

Other people on here will disagree with me. Some students have had wonderful experiences at smaller hospitals or with one on one preceptorships. That was not my experience, however.

This is one of the most valuable posts in this thread. Unfortunately, it's buried in a debate that has gone on too long here. All pre-meds should take note of this.

Rotations may be great at small sites, but unfortunately, it's highly dependant on the site/preceptor, and quite frankly it's hard to know that before you go. Use this info in cliquesh's post to determine if the school has solid rotation sites. Also, be sure to contact students at the schools, because a lot of times the websites aren't up to date.