Less Competitive Programs

[mungmung]

There is lots of talk on here about the more competitive programs. Of course all of the ENT programs are competitive, but are there any programs considered relatively less competitive?

Lets say a medical student who is a better than average, good student, whose dream job is ENT. Not terribly optimistic about his/her chances, but wanting to take a shot. Besides applying to home institution and program where doing an away elective, are there any programs where just a good student might have a chance? Are there areas of the country that tend to be a little less competitive?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

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[Pir8DeacDoc]

you porbably can figure this one out on your own. If you expect people to name programs then it's probably not going to happen. If you are close to the application cycle then you should sit down with your ENT faculty advisor and discuss your stats etc with them and let them guide your application. Realistically you'll need to apply quite broadly either way unless you're a super bad a$$.

 

[TheThroat]

Sorry, but no. In the US, there are no programs that let in the average joe. If you have lousy grades (bottom 50 %) and a lousy step I (<220), then you are not starting in a good position. The only way I have seen this overcome is some tail-kicking research, and I have seen this happen.

That said, at some point in time, you have to be realistic The hruth is that there are no programs in the US that are desperate for residents and have low standards.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I should emphasize that my point was there are some that are relatively less competitive than others, but nowhere is hurting for well-qualified applicants.

 

[Microhabitats]

Sorry, but no. In the US, there are no programs that let in the average joe. If you have lousy grades (bottom 50 %) and a lousy step I (<220), then you are not starting in a good position. The only way I have seen this overcome is some tail-kicking research, and I have seen this happen.

That said, at some point in time, you have to be realistic The hruth is that there are no programs in the US that are desperate for residents and have low standards.

Does it mean if you have >220 and top 50% class ranking, you will still have a relatively ok chance to match into ENT?

 

[resxn]

There is lots of talk on here about the more competitive programs. Of course all of the ENT programs are competitive, but are there any programs considered relatively less competitive?

Lets say a medical student who is a better than average, good student, whose dream job is ENT. Not terribly optimistic about his/her chances, but wanting to take a shot. Besides applying to home institution and program where doing an away elective, are there any programs where just a good student might have a chance? Are there areas of the country that tend to be a little less competitive?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

First, if you're "better than average" then why are you looking for lower tier programs?

Second, yes, I suppose there are some programs that are relatively "less competitive" since there are some programs that are more "highly prized." Higher demand equals higher competition. Lower demand, lower competition.

Having said that, those programs without the national stellar reputation get a ton of applications as well because they end up being the back up schools for the good students and the goals for the less than stellar students.

Basically I'm saying that you will not increase your chance of matching by identifying the less in-demand programs (which except for perhaps a couple here and there that may be in turmoil at any given time are all strong programs) and applying exclusively to them.

Waste of time and effort.

 

[TheThroat]

Does it mean if you have >220 and top 50% class ranking, you will still have a relatively ok chance to match into ENT?

In a word, no. I could consider folks with a over a 235 and in the top quarter of their class to have a "relatively ok" chance.

 

[radslooking]

In a word, no. I could consider folks with a over a 235 and in the top quarter of their class to have a "relatively ok" chance.

agreed

 

[ent]

-All ENT programs are competitive. You will see, if you pay attention closely, that there programs known as "low-tier" who happen to have one or two very famous attendings with residents who end up matching at amazing fellowships.
-I have noticed that a couple of programs (and keep in mind that I applied to a limited # of programs in a small geographic region), really value hard-working and reliable personalities so much, that they are willing to settle for an applicant with a slightly lower board score and a less stellar resume in order to gain a resident with the mentioned qualities. Great research, attendings who are willing to label you as the best and most hard-working student they have ever seen, and things of this nature are what can help.

 

[thedrjojo]

I guess the better way this should be asked is to ask either about specific programs or specific areas... I am in the NYC area and want to know if anyone has any experience any idea of the difference between these programs... Whats the difference between Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU, New York Ear and Eye (New York Medical College), Einstein, SUNY Downstate, and UMDNJ-NJMS? I think I have more of an interested in Head and Neck Surgery (and particularly Surgical Oncology) over anything else, so which of these has the best programs for that? Do you guys also advise putting a lot of interest into your home program (which is one of those 7 listed above) because of family constraints I'm primarily limited to those alone (will need to branch out to the 3 Philly programs, the 2 Conneticut programs, and Stony Brook but will list them lowest on my rank list out of geography alone), especially since I hear the averge programs applied to is 30 and I have like 12 to apply to (Step 1:254, AOA-ish rank (not junior AOA, but with a 3rd year similar to my first 2 years will make AOA), able to have an ENT project by application time)? Also, If I want to look for an away at any of these places, which has some good experiences for Med Students?

 

[exmike]

I guess the better way this should be asked is to ask either about specific programs or specific areas... I am in the NYC area and want to know if anyone has any experience any idea of the difference between these programs... Whats the difference between Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU, New York Ear and Eye (New York Medical College), Einstein, SUNY Downstate, and UMDNJ-NJMS? I think I have more of an interested in Head and Neck Surgery (and particularly Surgical Oncology) over anything else, so which of these has the best programs for that? Do you guys also advise putting a lot of interest into your home program (which is one of those 7 listed above) because of family constraints I'm primarily limited to those alone (will need to branch out to the 3 Philly programs, the 2 Conneticut programs, and Stony Brook but will list them lowest on my rank list out of geography alone), especially since I hear the averge programs applied to is 30 and I have like 12 to apply to (Step 1:254, AOA-ish rank (not junior AOA, but with a 3rd year similar to my first 2 years will make AOA), able to have an ENT project by application time)? Also, If I want to look for an away at any of these places, which has some good experiences for Med Students?

well, you can knock stonybrook off your list, since the program shut down.
and are you a MS3 or 4? b/c if you're a 4 you're pretty much too late.

 

[ent]

Are you serious about StonyBrook. I know someone who matched there this year. What will happen to their ENT residents?

 

[exmike]

Are you serious about StonyBrook. I know someone who matched there this year. What will happen to their ENT residents?

That person is at Penn now!

 

[thedrjojo]

well, you can knock stonybrook off your list, since the program shut down.
and are you a MS3 or 4? b/c if you're a 4 you're pretty much too late.

Sorry for not being around... Ob/Gyn clerkship is taking up a good amount of time...

I am an MS3, and yeah, I noticed Stonybrook closed a day or so after I posted... so back to the question at hand, anyone have any insight into the NYC programs/UMDNJ?

 

[Jccripe]

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[ORLHNS41]

Unfortunately, I don't think the anatomy thing will help you stand out at all. It adds a little something to your application, but it's not likely something your interviewers will be interested in hearing about.

Do an elective in ENT as soon as possible to figure out if that's the career for you. The sooner you know, the better. Also keep in mind that research is very important in ENT, and you should have at least a little bit to put on your application and talk about on your interviews. The good thing is that you still have time. Try to talk to someone in the department about research opportunities and try to make at least one month free to do something productive. It can even be in the beginning of 4th year. Just make sure you can put it on your application and talk about it intelligibly on your interview.

By the way, I remember reading these posts in med school and getting stressed out by the process... the bottom line is that if you work hard, perform decently, and are well liked, the chances of you matching are very good. Everyone will be stressed out applying to residency, regardless of specialty. ENT is a great field, so don't be intimidated by the fact it's competitive. You need to figure out if it's what you want, and if so, go for it.

Best of luck.

 

[badasshairday]

Unfortunately, I don't think the anatomy thing will help you stand out at all. It adds a little something to your application, but it's not likely something your interviewers will be interested in hearing about.

Do an elective in ENT as soon as possible to figure out if that's the career for you. The sooner you know, the better. Also keep in mind that research is very important in ENT, and you should have at least a little bit to put on your application and talk about on your interviews. The good thing is that you still have time. Try to talk to someone in the department about research opportunities and try to make at least one month free to do something productive. It can even be in the beginning of 4th year. Just make sure you can put it on your application and talk about it intelligibly on your interview.

By the way, I remember reading these posts in med school and getting stressed out by the process... the bottom line is that if you work hard, perform decently, and are well liked, the chances of you matching are very good. Everyone will be stressed out applying to residency, regardless of specialty. ENT is a great field, so don't be intimidated by the fact it's competitive. You need to figure out if it's what you want, and if so, go for it.

Best of luck.

Since it is true that for matching into ENT, research is very important, does it have to be ENT related? Is that what matters.... what if you did Cardiac Anesthesiology reseach???? No good?