Leaving podiatry for MD/DO

[PikminOC]

I’ll be honest I didn’t read every reply here but I’ll tell you I had the same thoughts when I was in your position. Years later I love what I do and am the youngest person I know to own my own practice. I will admit sometimes I wish I went MD ortho to do some hips and knees but as far as foot and ankle I think I’m just as good and better than they are. Medicine is not a “golden ticket” anymore, you have to work hard to get those big paydays. I don’t know that I would recommend medicine in general to anyone coming up but if it’s what you want keep at it.

Esp now with the difficulty of matching in residency.

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[PikminOC]

Easy to get into… but hard to stay in and do well.. spoken to all my professors who teach at our Dental and MD school… our tests are 80-90% the same questions for those profs.

The tests may be the same but the curves are not.

 

[Robin-jay]

The tests may be the same but the curves are not.

I imagine going through the preclinical sciences the second time with mostly identical questions would be enough to do decently.

 

[scoopdaboop]

For 2021 DO into anesthesia: 268/513, 52% match.

Couldn’t this just be because they ranked anesthesia low on their list? If you look at that number then family practice DO’s matched 1440 out of 1912 on that list… that’s 75%… family practice is obviously not competitive so I don’t think that number tells the whole story but I see your point. I wish they had a number on there for the percentage that matched their preferred speciality in each because many people apply to multiple specialties

Yeah, if you go to page 35 of that document, you'd find the match rates based on if they only applied to that one specialty.
As you see, match rate for gas was 78 percent if they only ranked that. Still pretty low.

 

[PikminOC]

You aren't starting residency next year. You are doing clerkships next year. Big difference. if you've started clerkships already, you've only seen 10% of the responsibility you will need to carry working side by side with residents. When you start, it is a significantly bigger difference than what you see. Don't under estimate it.



What do you mean "don't lose my progress" ? You realize credits don't transfer that easily? You will still have to study for Step 1 and 2. You will still have to be hypercompetitive for an ortho specialty. You will still have to work your ass off (or harder really) than you are currently doing.

Infinite possibilities for what? Family medicine? Your specialty will be highly dependent on your Step score. Perhaps your grass is greener or FOMO mentality is downplaying how difficult it is to match into a competitive specialty. a 3.85gpa and 50% MCAT is very solid for DO applications. It is NOT the same for matching into competitive specialties- again, you may be downplaying how hard it is to get into a competitive specialty.

My personal advice for you:
- do not knock or downplay how easy a DPM residency will be
- do not underestimate how easy starting over, doing well on your Step 1 +2, and matching into Ortho will be


If you are agonizing over this decision and have unlimited funds to spare- by all means I encourage you to stop pursuing the DPM degree RIGHT NOW and start over. Update us after you get in. Update us when you get your Step scores back. Update us when you end up matching into xyz specialty (I doubt you will actually do this- prove me wrong.) If you are happier doing medicine and do not want to be locked into foot and ankle- switch right now and don't look back. But switching does NOT guarantee you will end up on the upside in terms of matching into a better specialty such as ortho. It may be much much easier to deal a better paying contract as FM/IM with much more job opportunities geographically, but the workload will be the same.

Am I missing something? It would be a direct transfer with no time lost or need to be admitted to medical school?

I imagine going through the preclinical sciences the second time with mostly identical questions would be enough to do decently.

Depends on how they did the first time. Did the podiatry student take all the same classes as the MD do? There are postbacc students who still struggle with med school. It's not like they all get into Ortho..

 

[Weirdy]

Am I missing something? It would be a direct transfer with no time lost or need to be admitted to medical school?

I do not know of any MD/DO programs that will outright accept DPM school credits as their own for a direct transfer, or accepting a DPM student as the same year of where they finished into an MD/DO program outright.

My understanding is the DPM student would have to apply from scratch to MD/DO programs.

 

[newfeet]

I do not know of any MD/DO programs that will outright accept DPM school credits as their own for a direct transfer, or accepting a DPM student as the same year of where they finished into an MD/DO program outright.

My understanding is the DPM student would have to apply from scratch to MD/DO programs.

You're right. You start from scratch. They are no bridge programs for DPMs anymore. Nova Southern used to have a program for DPMs that knocked off a year. There are 3 year programs for people who want to do primary care.

 

[AttackNME]

Wow first things first thank you to everyone who has answered in here over the past couple of days. I really do appreciate you all. I actually was in this forum before starting podiatry school and recognize many of your names when I was giving different careers in medicine some thought. To be clear with everyone. I do think podiatry is awesome for many different reasons. And I’m sure at the end of the day someone who dislikes aspects of medicine in one specialty will probably dislike the overlapped aspects in every other field… I think a lot of what I go through and many others in podiatry school is an ego complex. We work our behinds off in school, see good results, and wonder about just how far we could have applied that effort in other fields that we previously thought we may have had less of a shot at. I’m not scared to admit I have this issue. It seems human from these replies. And I’m thankful this forum wasn’t a complete negative Nancy show. I heard everything from all over the spectrum. I think the most perfect thing I can do for myself right now, since I’m really not worried about the loans (I’m way more worried about my happiness ) is to study for the MCAT, take it in may, begin my externships while applying early to MD/DO schools. I can observe podiatry in a hospital setting daily and interact with other residents from other specialties throughout the next year starting in June. I’ll be thrust into seeing things instead of just merely wondering. By the end of 4th year I will (hopefully) have an acceptance to ponder and can choose to go directly into that immediately after graduation or I can continue on with residency in pod. I think by then I will feel more settled having observed all that I will in the next year at different hospitals/clinics and it will no longer by a hypothetical scenario but a true choice. IMO nothing to lose by taking this approach. Thank you to everyone who answered from students to attendings. I appreciate you all. Will update when final decision is made.

If you have the time and energy to rock the mcats while studying for and doing externships, why not pivot that energy into studying for the externships 110%, do research, and become one of the leaders of podiatry some day?

 

[Robin-jay]

If you have the time and energy to rock the mcats while studying for and doing externships, why not pivot that energy into studying for the externships 110%, do research, and become one of the leaders of podiatry some day?

Instead of trying to rock to MCAT, he could also put energy into learning how to invest to later be able to make up for the difference between the DPM and DO degree, instead of going into DO.

One could argue that if one is smart enough to get through medical school, you'd think they could learn how to invest money to some extent.

 

[G0dFather]

That sort of confuses me, because you mentioned a scenario where you would jump ship to DO in your 24 year old self, meaning you somewhat support the OPs decision of going into DO. The most likely scenario is the OP would make around 250k, more or less, with a debt of close to 500k or so.

This would be a 1 to 2 income to debt ratio.

yes i agree with you he may even have way more when you factor in the interest that keeps piling on... but the OP is trying to salvage a rather unideal situation ..... most of starting salary of medicine now has a poor debt to income ratio compared to 10 years ago. Hopefully one can increase their salary fast ... very difficult to do in podiatry working for someone or an organization

 

[Robin-jay]

yes i agree with you he may even have way more when you factor in the interest that keeps piling on... but the OP is trying to salvage a rather unideal situation ..... most of starting salary of medicine now has a poor debt to income ratio compared to 10 years ago. Hopefully one can increase their salary fast ... very difficult to do in podiatry working for someone or an organization

I agree medicine only gets worse as it goes on. Although for podiatrists, it seems like the DPM degree is getting better (albeit slowly), while medicine aa a whole is getting worse.

The OP "unideal" situation is kind of an illusion. His situation is he's about to graduate podiatric medical school and become a resident physician. The "grass is greener and FOMO" is something I'd consider extremely normal in medicine.

 

[de Ribas]

I’m having a bad case of grass is greener syndrome.

Im 24- 3rd year pod student

Podiatry, unlike many other medical specialties, has no real average salary. So you don’t know if you’ll be making 80K or 1M a year. It’s up to luck in many ways? Anyway I’m in 24 YO and in my 3rd year. Already passed boards that only had a 76% pass rate this year, got through all the tough classes ( which BTW were 90% the same classes with the same professors as our MD school) so they drove me into insanity, but I passed them all. I chose podiatry because I was scared of the potential to not match into orthopedics after 4 grueling years of med school. So I went the safe route of guaranteeing myself surgery and will be doing many of the same things an FA- orthopedist would do. Everyone assumes I couldn’t get into med school. But I actually graduated with a 3.85 GPA and about 50th percentile MCAT, good enough for many DO schools. I’m about to start a 3 year residency next year and am having some second thoughts when I hear about some people in the field making under 200K for the rest of their life. This seems so low given the work put in. I’m up at night every night til 4 am wondering if I should just apply to DO schools and switch after graduating podiatry in a year so I don’t lose my progress. This way I’ll have infinite possibilites. I like the field honestly but get scared of being “ locked in “ What do you guys think?

Did you have to take out loans for undergrad and med school?

How much you owe at this point?
Most owe around 250-300k at the end of pod school. DO school is probably another 350-400k. Unless you end up with high paying DO specialty, idk how financially smart it is to add another 350k loan with high interest just to make pretty much the same salary. Debt burden is real. Graduating DO schools with around 600-700k debt plus acrrued/accruing interest and most likely making around 250k would suck big time. Idk how much you would love or regret your decision once debt burden becomes real.

 

[Jaydog2424]

Did you have to take out loans for undergrad and med school?

How much you owe at this point?
Most owe around 250-300k at the end of pod school. DO school is probably another 350-400k. Unless you end up with high paying DO specialty, idk how financially smart it is to add another 350k loan with high interest just to make pretty much the same salary. Debt burden is real. Graduating DO schools with around 600-700k debt plus acrrued/accruing interest and most likely making around 250k would suck big time. Idk how much you would love or regret your decision once debt burden becomes real.

No loans for U-grad. Med school will put me just over 200K by time finished. Loan interest hasn’t been a factor due to pandemic. As previously stated, at this point will be following the minimum program with 25 year payment, then debt forgiveness w/ tax bomb ( hopefully offset by investments made early in career ) by then

 

[Jaydog2424]

I agree medicine only gets worse as it goes on. Although for podiatrists, it seems like the DPM degree is getting better (albeit slowly), while medicine aa a whole is getting worse.

The OP "unideal" situation is kind of an illusion. His situation is he's about to graduate podiatric medical school and become a resident physician. The "grass is greener and FOMO" is something I'd consider extremely normal in medicine.

I’m thinking it’s this and that I may feel this way even as DO. “ I like my prestige and guaranteed salary but I always wished I could do surgery, why didn’t I stay with DPM”

And to your earlier point. I am starting to think this is a better use of my time…. That 4 years could definitely put me way ahead of where I would be on the med school path in terms of investing ability not to mention opportunity cost/ 4 years lost attending salary. If I take advantage of where I’m at and make it a priority to take this career to the max, I think it would help me not even care to look back…

 

[Jaydog2424]

Now a side note for DPM’s in this forum. The saving grace of pre meds entering podiatry is the increased talk of MSG/ortho/hosp jobs that make the MGMA salary so inflated compared to reality.
I already realize these are tough to come by, But are these job opportunities growing over the years as the forums would suggest?

 

[PirateKing]

I think this thread has served its purpose. Your questions were answered regarding your initial issue and you have now recieved a wide range of responses. As for the topic of salary; the answer can be found in the podiatry resident/physician forums and has been discussed many times over. I would suggest taking a look into that tab to get a better insight on that topic.

 

[dtrack22]

Going from one professional school to another is a red flag in itself. IMO, it is easier to explain to an AdCom why they switch before the 2nd year but, good luck, and I hope it works out for you.

One of my classmates decided he wanted to go DO after our first year because he got a taste of other systems, specialties and decided he was less interested in podiatry than the other stuff. He was also more interested in rural medicine and at the time even our own instructors said that would limit his options in podiatry. It was at the end of our first year. He spent the next year in one of the schools masters programs and applied to the DO school. They took him, but he had to retake every class even though the only course he didn’t take was OMM (and he was ranked at the top of both the DPM and DO classes after our first year since we all had the same classes and grading scale we could compare). He’s a general surgeon doing a trauma fellowship at the moment.

It’s a really easy explanation to admissions committees, “I was exposed to different systems this last year of school and realize I have more passion for a number of other medical specialties. I don’t want to continue accumulating more debt for a degree that I will ultimately regret completing. I am a much safer candidate than others you are interviewing since I’ve already passed nearly all of the courses you are going to ask me to take.

The OP should try and go DO if he/she would rather practice medicine. You risk not getting a specialty you want and you are probably locking yourself into PSLF since they are gonna end up with like $600-700k in debt…but you aren’t stuck being a podiatrist

 

[dtrack22]

Also my gross pay this month was $40,000. Not hard to do in podiatry IF you are comfortable running a practice or IF you are ok with living in more than 1-2 parts of the country. Those two things are what will get you stuck working for PA wages as an associate in a podiatry group or 2.

 

[air bud]

Also my gross pay this month was $40,000. Not hard to do in podiatry IF you are comfortable running a practice or IF you are ok with living in more than 1-2 parts of the country. Those two things are what will get you stuck working for PA wages as an associate in a podiatry group or 2.

NYC PHILLY cough cough

 

[dtrack22]

NYC PHILLY cough cough

Being limited in locations is what got me two consecutive (though both were short lived) $100k per year associate jobs…and it wasn’t even in the northeast or Florida

 

[podiatryresident]

Also my gross pay this month was $40,000. Not hard to do in podiatry IF you are comfortable running a practice or IF you are ok with living in more than 1-2 parts of the country. Those two things are what will get you stuck working for PA wages as an associate in a podiatry group or 2.

Hello, I'm 4th year pod student and I will start my residency this July. I'm always interested in opening my own practice after residency. Do you know any book or website that I can learn about running a practice ? Thank you so much

 

[air bud]

If you have the time and energy to rock the mcats while studying for and doing externships, why not pivot that energy into studying for the externships 110%, do research, and become one of the leaders of podiatry some day?

because then he/she is a podiatrist?

 

[air bud]

Hello, I'm 4th year pod student and I will start my residency this July. I'm always interested in opening my own practice after residency. Do you know any book or website that I can learn about running a practice ? Thank you so much

yeah the book of life. Or search online for some good twitter/linkedin threads.

lol no. Learn during residency - pick one that you think may allow for it, or do a "one year apprenticeship." And by that I mean work for a pod. Much more valuable than a one year "fellowship." Learn how an office works vs. be better at surgery. I promise that 1 year as an assoicate can be more valuable in the long run than a fellowship. And make you more money.

 

[Redsting]

I’m having a bad case of grass is greener syndrome.

Im 24- 3rd year pod student

Podiatry, unlike many other medical specialties, has no real average salary. So you don’t know if you’ll be making 80K or 1M a year. It’s up to luck in many ways? Anyway I’m in 24 YO and in my 3rd year. Already passed boards that only had a 76% pass rate this year, got through all the tough classes ( which BTW were 90% the same classes with the same professors as our MD school) so they drove me into insanity, but I passed them all. I chose podiatry because I was scared of the potential to not match into orthopedics after 4 grueling years of med school. So I went the safe route of guaranteeing myself surgery and will be doing many of the same things an FA- orthopedist would do. Everyone assumes I couldn’t get into med school. But I actually graduated with a 3.85 GPA and about 50th percentile MCAT, good enough for many DO schools. I’m about to start a 3 year residency next year and am having some second thoughts when I hear about some people in the field making under 200K for the rest of their life. This seems so low given the work put in. I’m up at night every night til 4 am wondering if I should just apply to DO schools and switch after graduating podiatry in a year so I don’t lose my progress. This way I’ll have infinite possibilites. I like the field honestly but get scared of being “ locked in “ What do you guys think?

You're young. If I had it to do again I would do DO school. I was kind of blind going in. I would have been happy with EM or FM. I would have had more options. Don't get me wrong, I am happy and make good money, but vast majority of Pods are taken advantage of and don't make a lot. I could have tried the tech route and with as much time as I put in, I would have been making good money with less loans but from earlier on. I may start learning some coding now just for the hell of it.