Latest gimmick: Dr. Scholl's custom fit orthotics

[Podfather]

I'll stay and help spread the word. I have a large residency and deal with the same issue you described. I communicate honestly with the residents and the majority get it. I tell the residents that you have ethical attendings who will show the way and teach you didactically. The "fringe" DPMs (and MD/DOs) are there to allow you to gain experience. It's a slippery slope but I say do the best you can for that patient. What's funny is on rare occasions the residents's political questioning has converted a few into to logical thinking and a come to Jesus moment. A pleasant side effect of teaching. PADPM at first I was skeptical but have come to realize you have good intentions and great advice. I may not always agree with you (mostly do) but will listen to what you say.

One issue that disturbs me on this site is the hidden agenda people. I can handle the anti-DPM crowd but those who pose as pro-profession only to slam good people or organizations are hard to take. Students and residents do not always understand the politics and I get worried they may make decisions based upon false prophets. I can understand concerns someone may have but to poison a future generation against the APMA, ACFAS, or ABPS is just wrong. For a future DPM to think it's OK not to be boarded by ABPS if they do surgery and not to join ACFAS does harm to the profession and that DPM.

I come off harsh sometimes but will defend anyone who supports and advances the profession. ACFAS/ACFOAM, ABPS/ABOPPM, ASPS/APMA all good groups. Why must it be an either or?

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[PADPM]

As usual, your points are very well taken. I've always told the residents that they have the opportunity to learn from all attendings. They can learn as much from the bad attendings as the good attendings. They can learn what NOT to do and how NOT to practice from the bad attendings, and that is always a valuable lesson.

I understand that we initially got off to a rocky start due to some of my comments regarding the ABPS. However, I really did not bash the ABPS. I was involved for many years, had some issues and did attempt to make changes from within. I ran into resistance from the regime at the time and simply decided to let history takes it's course. Fortunately, those individuals are no longer in control.

However, I've always maintained my diplomate status and have been a very strong proponent of the ABPS, ACFAS, APMA, etc. I understand the genesis of the ASPS, though at the same time I really don't understand the need. I hope some day the issue can be worked out because there are some good people involved and at the present time I don't see the ASPS going anywhere, nor do I anticipate it having the true ability to compete with the ACFAS.

 

[gatorfoot]

With all due respect, these things are not a gimmick at all, Doc. They actually changed my life, being that I am very active but was "blessed" with flipper-like feet, unlike the two previous pair I had made by the "pros". Just had to respond, as your judgment did not seem fair.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

With all due respect, these things are not a gimmick at all, Doc. They actually changed my life, being that I am very active but was "blessed" with flipper-like feet, unlike the two previous pair I had made by the "pros". Just had to respond, as your judgment did not seem fair.

Hang on, you just happened to be randomly reading the podiatry residents forum on SDN when you were so overcome with feelings of gratitude to a certain OTC insert maker that you just HAD to create a screen name and use your first post to defend their honor?

 

[gatorfoot]

Hang on, you just happened to be randomly reading the podiatry residents forum on SDN when you were so overcome with feelings of gratitude to a certain OTC insert maker that you just HAD to create a screen name and use your first post to defend their honor?

Not so much overcome with gratitude as I was bugged by pompousness. So, yes, I registered just to be able to respond.

 

[janV88]

I actually saw a commercial for this very recently. Can they be sued for false advertisement? "Custom" fit orthotics that comes pre-fab??

 

[PADPM]

With all due respect, these things are not a gimmick at all, Doc. They actually changed my life, being that I am very active but was "blessed" with flipper-like feet, unlike the two previous pair I had made by the "pros". Just had to respond, as your judgment did not seem fair.

If you read my prior posts, I was very clear to point out that there will always be a minority who will be helped by any product. That's why I mentioned the "Kotex" story. However, although I had a patient who obtained "amazing relief" with the use of Kotex maxi-pads in her shoes, I refrained from recommending those for other patients.

One of the advantages of treating thousands and thousands of patients over a 20+ year span is that it allows someone to develop a pretty broad "base" for his/her opinion, which really has a little more validity that one individual experience.

I didn't base my opinion on simply watching the commercial. I saw, touched and inspected the product line, and as previously stated I have a sample in my office of every Dr. Scholl product made. But most importantly, I base my opinion on the huge amount of patients that enter my office after having purchased these products with no relief.

I do not try to sell every patient custom orthoses, and as also previously stated I prescribe the least amount of custom orthoses of any doctor in our very large practice. However, there are much higher quality products such as PowerSteps that I believe are much more beneficial to a much greater percentage of patients, and they actually cost less than the new Dr. Scholl product.

If caring for my patients and discouraging patients from wasting their money is "pompous" than I'll continue in my pompous way. But the patients I've helped and have convinced to return the products for a refund of their money will probably have a different opinion than yours.

I have no financial or proprietary interest in PowerSteps or Dr. Scholl. If I felt that Dr. Scholl made a beneficial product, I'd be happy to recommend them, but at this point in time, the amount of patients that I've seen that benefit from these products can be counted on one hand, and that's exaggerating.

 

[Podfather]

If you read my prior posts, I was very clear to point out that there will always be a minority who will be helped by any product. That's why I mentioned the "Kotex" story. However, although I had a patient who obtained "amazing relief" with the use of Kotex maxi-pads in her shoes, I refrained from recommending those for other patients.

One of the advantages of treating thousands and thousands of patients over a 20+ year span is that it allows someone to develop a pretty broad "base" for his/her opinion, which really has a little more validity that one individual experience.

I didn't base my opinion on simply watching the commercial. I saw, touched and inspected the product line, and as previously stated I have a sample in my office of every Dr. Scholl product made. But most importantly, I base my opinion on the huge amount of patients that enter my office after having purchased these products with no relief.

I do not try to sell every patient custom orthoses, and as also previously stated I prescribe the least amount of custom orthoses of any doctor in our very large practice. However, there are much higher quality products such as PowerSteps that I believe are much more beneficial to a much greater percentage of patients, and they actually cost less than the new Dr. Scholl product.

If caring for my patients and discouraging patients from wasting their money is "pompous" than I'll continue in my pompous way. But the patients I've helped and have convinced to return the products for a refund of their money will probably have a different opinion than yours.

I have no financial or proprietary interest in PowerSteps or Dr. Scholl. If I felt that Dr. Scholl made a beneficial product, I'd be happy to recommend them, but at this point in time, the amount of patients that I've seen that benefit from these products can be counted on one hand, and that's exaggerating.

PADPM you do not have to explain yourself. If the poster is legit and benefited from a Scholl support great! You and I are from the same school that as long as the patient is better we are happy. Their advertising is IMO misleading and to be frank I believe is more in response to the Good Foot Store like franchises than DPMs. People have tried and will continue to try OTC products for their foot and other health problems. When they fail, they then seek the care of a medical professional. Scholl has offered their products through DPM's office before and it is surprising that this time they skipped us. I believe it is because most us have better OTCs we already use.

Pompous is a strong word and I wonder why this poster just didn't say he has been happy with his inserts? At any rate, whatever works and BTW PADPM you are very pompous for not touting Kotex to your patients LOL

 

[PADPM]

At any rate, whatever works and BTW PADPM you are very pompous for not touting Kotex to your patients LOL

You're correct. It's just that I couldn't figure out which one was the right and which one was the left

 

[NatCh]

You're correct. It's just that I couldn't figure out which one was the right and which one was the left

The one with wings.

 

[Gimper]

Is there an OTC product that compensates for leg length imbalances? I wore one for left leg in heel about 20 years ago and I think it caused lower back pain because it was just a heel insert. It was prescribed by a podiatrist or chiropractor (can't remember), but was probably more expensive than it should have been and ended up hurting in the long run. I'm sure the Dr. Scholl's does not accommodate these types of problems, but do any of the other OTC's address this?

Thanks for any experienced advice. I have extreme lower back pain now and am in search of a hopefully low cost solution as I'm just beginning new treatment with new chiropractor that is recommending some sort of orthodic to address falling arches and 1/4" length imbalance in leg. Dr. Scholl's was mentioned as a 'possible - but not great solution'. I too find the gel inserts to be too 'wiggly' which seems to end up causing more problems in the long run - especially for someone with lower back issues.

Stumbled on this site in doing my research and finding the comments interesting. Sorry - I'm not in the medical field.

 

[krabmas]

Is there an OTC product that compensates for leg length imbalances? I wore one for left leg in heel about 20 years ago and I think it caused lower back pain because it was just a heel insert. It was prescribed by a podiatrist or chiropractor (can't remember), but was probably more expensive than it should have been and ended up hurting in the long run. I'm sure the Dr. Scholl's does not accommodate these types of problems, but do any of the other OTC's address this?

Thanks for any experienced advice. I have extreme lower back pain now and am in search of a hopefully low cost solution as I'm just beginning new treatment with new chiropractor that is recommending some sort of orthodic to address falling arches and 1/4" length imbalance in leg. Dr. Scholl's was mentioned as a 'possible - but not great solution'. I too find the gel inserts to be too 'wiggly' which seems to end up causing more problems in the long run - especially for someone with lower back issues.

Stumbled on this site in doing my research and finding the comments interesting. Sorry - I'm not in the medical field.

This is not a forum for medical advice. If you need a lift for leg length descrepency it can be built on to your orthotic or your shoe. However it does not make sense to see a chiropracter for "fallen arches".

 

[Gimper]

Hmmmm.... OK then. I totally understand that this site is not one for medical advice - Although I will say, I didn't think I was asking for any. And, I'm totally OK with that. But just to clarify, I'm asking if there is an OTC brand that carries 1/4" lifts. I don't need any medical advice.

Also BTW, I'm not seeing the chiropractor for "fallen arches" - I'm seeing him for "lower back pain" of which in just this past week he has reduced by 50% (awesome doctor!). But he is recommending orthodics - either OTC or thru podiatrist (my decision).

 

[krabmas]

Hmmmm.... OK then. I totally understand that this site is not one for medical advice - Although I will say, I didn't think I was asking for any. And, I'm totally OK with that. But just to clarify, I'm asking if there is an OTC brand that carries 1/4" lifts. I don't need any medical advice.

Also BTW, I'm not seeing the chiropractor for "fallen arches" - I'm seeing him for "lower back pain" of which in just this past week he has reduced by 50% (awesome doctor!). But he is recommending orthodics - either OTC or thru podiatrist (my decision).

there is no OTC device that has a lift built in. A pedorthist or orthotist might be willing to attach a lift to your shoe or your OTC orthotic for a fee of course.

 

[truthseeker]

Spenco makes a flat pad that is the entire length of your foot. If you wear them both in one shoe it makes about 1/4 inch. That is what I use with my patients who need lifts.

 

[jettavr6]

I'm a pain doc and member of this site. Coincidentally, I was googled the scholls orthotics for reviews and it brought me here. In this case, I'm actually looking to purchase shoe inserts for myself. After reading PADPM's comments, I've decided against the Dr. Scholls and will look for the superfeet models that I need until I get time to see a podiatrist... I've used them in the past with pretty good success. The school of thought I come from is that the advice of a professional with 20+ years experience who recommends more than one alternative which cost either the same or less is worth listening to. Thanks PADPM!

 

[PADPM]

Thanks for your support and confidence. I believe you've made a wide decision by not purchasing the Dr. Scholl product, since I've made it pretty clear that in my experience there are much better alternatives at similar or lower prices.

If you've had success with Superfeet products in the past, I would certainly not discourage their use, however in my practice I've had the greatest success and patient feedback with the use of PowerSteps (I have no financial interest in the company).

Interestingly, PowerSteps was developed and owned by a podiatrist and he created a very successful product (and apparently he's smarter than me!!) and he recently sold to a big company named Remington. So I'm hoping that product quality remains the same.

Regardless, if you've had success with SuperFeet you may want to stick with their products, though they make several varieties, and if you feel adventurous, you may want to give PowerSteps a try. If purchasing from the internet, the "Pinnacles" are their top of the line version.

 

[kvl1027]

I guess I can understand why certain individuals would have, at first, been taken back by PADPM comments. It did, in my opinion, come across as slightly condescending. However, after reading all of your posts (which apparently is difficult for some individuals to do before commenting) I feel like your response was professional and concise. People seem to have difficulty separating the terms "professional" and "political". If you are looking for a political response, with a candy coated shine, then perhaps you should seek greener pastures elsewhere. If you are looking for a professional opinion, then you are in the right place.

I found this page while researching reviews on the new Dr Scholl's "custom insoles" as I was thinking about purchasing a set to help some fairly severe foot pain I have had for most of my life. After reading this I will steer clear of the Dr. Scholl's line and look at some other options.

PADPM or (Others who know more about feet than I do):
As a Pharmacist, I receive endless questions regarding these types of products. In general, do you try to recommend a cheaper OTC alternative, before moving on to the more expensive real orthotics" If I had a patient who, because of cost, could not spend $250-$350 on orthotic, but could part with $40-$50 would the Dr. Scholl's inserts or something similar be considered "better than nothing"? I know that no true clinical decision could ever be made over the internet, I'm just trying to know whether or not I should tell my patients to give them a shot and see or just send them your way. Thanks again for you up-front, no BS, professional opinion.

 

[PADPM]

Thanks for your comments. You ask an excellent question, and I can tell you as a matter-of-fact, that at the present time, unfortunately Dr. Scholl makes no product that I know of that I can honestly recommend.

I do visit the pharmacy and/or grocery store on a regular basis to see what is available OTC. I've visited my local CVS, small pharmacy, grocery stores, Target, WalMart, etc., since I believe I really need to know what is available for my patients.

As a pharmacist, I must ask you that when a patient walks in and asks you for a recommendation for a foot problem, prior to recommending a specific problem, have you asked that patient if they have already received a diagnosis from a podiatrist/orthopedist??

The problem I have with patients "shopping" for a foot product, is that they often are treating the wrong problem, and are making a self diagnosis.

Regardless whether or not Dr. Scholl or any other company makes a product that is beneficial, it is really of no use if the patient is treating the wrong diagnosis.

I had a patient who was "self treating" a wart for months with an OTC wart remover, when in fact the lesion was a cancerous growth.

Unfortunately, not every patient who has heel pain has plantar fasciitis though that's what they may believe because a friend had the condition, they read it on the internet, etc.

So, my recommendation is simple. If a patient was diagnosed by a doctor and the doctor recommended custom orthoses and can't afford the custom device and enters your pharmacy, the best OTC device in my opinion is the PowerStep. The next best product in my opinion is SuperFeet and way, way behind those, but carried in many pharmacies are Spenco products.

However, if a patient walks into your pharmacy and is asking for a product based on a self diagnosis, I would recommend you refer them to a local doctor for an accurate diagnosis prior to recommending a product.

I beleve that's truly in the best interest of your patients/customers.

 

[347932]

I've become very interested in this as it came up in a discussion at the recent APMA ASM and on the Podiatry Today website.

These Dr. Scholl's inserts can be considered "custom" as they take everyone's unique foot scan into account. They can not be considered "orthortics" as my understanding of this term revolves around a correction of some kind.

How can you correct for a deformity in a static position? This is why we put the foot in neutral position when using the negative casting technique (I know...I'm old school). The only true way to make a custom molded functional orthotic is with a device like an F-Scan, which is a VERY expensive way to do it. It will map your foot in motion and depending on how advanced the F-Scan is and the computer software you use, the Scan will then be used to extrapolate the true gait and the correction required.

Gimmick is right. There is no scientific data to suggest that ANY orthotic does what we say it does btw. There are degrees, however. If you want relief and knowledge, visit an expert. There is no way a simple machine can provide this level of care, even it helps "some" people.

 

[kvl1027]

Thanks for your comments. You ask an excellent question, and I can tell you as a matter-of-fact, that at the present time, unfortunately Dr. Scholl makes no product that I know of that I can honestly recommend.

I do visit the pharmacy and/or grocery store on a regular basis to see what is available OTC. I've visited my local CVS, small pharmacy, grocery stores, Target, WalMart, etc., since I believe I really need to know what is available for my patients.

As a pharmacist, I must ask you that when a patient walks in and asks you for a recommendation for a foot problem, prior to recommending a specific problem, have you asked that patient if they have already received a diagnosis from a podiatrist/orthopedist??

The problem I have with patients "shopping" for a foot product, is that they often are treating the wrong problem, and are making a self diagnosis.

Regardless whether or not Dr. Scholl or any other company makes a product that is beneficial, it is really of no use if the patient is treating the wrong diagnosis.

I had a patient who was "self treating" a wart for months with an OTC wart remover, when in fact the lesion was a cancerous growth.

Unfortunately, not every patient who has heel pain has plantar fasciitis though that's what they may believe because a friend had the condition, they read it on the internet, etc.

So, my recommendation is simple. If a patient was diagnosed by a doctor and the doctor recommended custom orthoses and can't afford the custom device and enters your pharmacy, the best OTC device in my opinion is the PowerStep. The next best product in my opinion is SuperFeet and way, way behind those, but carried in many pharmacies are Spenco products.

However, if a patient walks into your pharmacy and is asking for a product based on a self diagnosis, I would recommend you refer them to a local doctor for an accurate diagnosis prior to recommending a product.

I beleve that's truly in the best interest of your patients/customers.

I never make recommendations for OTC products without asking whether or not they have been seen by a physician or specialist. However, the truth is, that as a pharmacist we are often the most easily accessible health care practitioner available so patients seem to come to us first. Often time patients are looking for a free recommendation and will not leave without get some sort of advice regardless of what I tell them. In a case like this I would point them in the right direction and provide them with the limited knowledge I have regarding the subject and then always following up with recommending they see a specialist to make sure it is not something more serious or to see if there may be a better alternative.

I have worked with some Pharmacists who blindly recommended OTC products without the proper questions or counsel and also received prescriptions from physicians who simply throw medication at problems without doing a proper and complete clinical work-up. This is why I choose to practice pharmacy in a small independently owned pharmacy where I can practice how I see fit and not the way some corporate suit would prefer.

Based on your recommendation, I will start recommending the powerstep inserts for my patients who are looking for an OTC option. I am sure with your experience, you are aware that there are some patients who will self diagnose and treat regardless of how many times they are told they need to be seen. They are going to grab something off of the shelf, regardless of what I say, so I want to be able to give them the best advice possible.

 

[PADPM]

I never make recommendations for OTC products without asking whether or not they have been seen by a physician or specialist. However, the truth is, that as a pharmacist we are often the most easily accessible health care practitioner available so patients seem to come to us first. Often time patients are looking for a free recommendation and will not leave without get some sort of advice regardless of what I tell them. In a case like this I would point them in the right direction and provide them with the limited knowledge I have regarding the subject and then always following up with recommending they see a specialist to make sure it is not something more serious or to see if there may be a better alternative.

I have worked with some Pharmacists who blindly recommended OTC products without the proper questions or counsel and also received prescriptions from physicians who simply throw medication at problems without doing a proper and complete clinical work-up. This is why I choose to practice pharmacy in a small independently owned pharmacy where I can practice how I see fit and not the way some corporate suit would prefer.

Based on your recommendation, I will start recommending the powerstep inserts for my patients who are looking for an OTC option. I am sure with your experience, you are aware that there are some patients who will self diagnose and treat regardless of how many times they are told they need to be seen. They are going to grab something off of the shelf, regardless of what I say, so I want to be able to give them the best advice possible.

I completely understand your situation, and there will always be "shoppers", those patients looking for a quick fix, without seeking proper advice, whether it be from a pharmacist or a doctor.

Unfortunately, in the long run, those patients are simply doing harm to himself/herself and end up spending more money.

 

[BioBS]

I am a CPhT and have been working in the field of pharmacy for 6 years. I am currently studying for the PCAT and would like to become a Pharmacist.

I completely agree with kvl1027 that some people just want a recommendation right then and there even when the Pharmacist tells them they need to see their doctor. The general public self medicates incorrectly all too often.

PADPM after reading through these posts I don't understand how anyone would think they had the right to slander you and your ways of practicing in your field of study. You are perfectly within your right to give your analysis of this new product by Dr. scholl's. I think you are right on the money about this new product.

I feel this machine is just a glamorous way of buying basically the same thing they have always offered... comfy inserts for your shoes. I am on my feet for about 9 hours a day 5 days a week behind the pharmacy counter and I have found that by wearing Birkenstock's my feet feel good at the end of the week. Birks are not made of gel or foam they are made of cork and they support my feet not trick me into thinking I am "gelling".

I have been trying to get my girlfriend to go see well... one of you guys about her flat feet. She was looking into maybe buying some of these Dr. S. "orthos" but I was skeptical of how much support these could actually offer. After reading through this forum I will be informing her not waste her money.

 

[vikingroovin]

I have been hardly able to walk for the last 6 months. I saw the ad for the dr scholls foot pressure machine and went to try it out it was spot on as I have flat feet nearly no arches at all exactly what the machine said and recommended the cf440. for 50 bucks I am very pleased to say my feet felt better before I even took a step. my first steps which normally are akward and stumbly went off without a hitch. I am very impressed with this product. I normally walk about 3 miles a day on cement floors so if this lasts I will definately buy more when needed. so far look like no more stretching and bs for my supposed plantar faciitis. good product dr scholls!!!

 

[347932]

I have been hardly able to walk for the last 6 months. I saw the ad for the dr scholls foot pressure machine and went to try it out it was spot on as I have flat feet nearly no arches at all exactly what the machine said and recommended the cf440. for 50 bucks I am very pleased to say my feet felt better before I even took a step. my first steps which normally are akward and stumbly went off without a hitch. I am very impressed with this product. I normally walk about 3 miles a day on cement floors so if this lasts I will definately buy more when needed. so far look like no more stretching and bs for my supposed plantar faciitis. good product dr scholls!!!

Why not go see a Podiatrist for a full and thorough biomechanical evaluation? I assure you'll get much more useful information about what is going on with your feet as well as long term goals for treatment and pain free ambulation. Just saying...

 

[dtrack22]

Another poster who registered for the sole purpose (get it?) of promoting Dr. Scholl's?

I'd bet a lot of money that these one-and-done posters work for Dr. Scholl's PR, Marketing, Social Networking, etc. Departments. They google "Dr. Scholl's" to see what is being said about their product, and when they find out their is a community forum discussing superior products and the BS behind their "custom fit" machine, they register and make a post about how WONDERFUL and life changing Dr. Scholl's products really are.

Just a theory...

 

[347932]

Another poster who registered for the sole purpose (get it?) of promoting Dr. Scholl's?

I'd bet a lot of money that these one-and-done posters work for Dr. Scholl's PR, Marketing, Social Networking, etc. Departments. They google "Dr. Scholl's" to see what is being said about their product, and when they find out their is a community forum discussing superior products and the BS behind their "custom fit" machine, they register and make a post about how WONDERFUL and life changing Dr. Scholl's products really are.

Just a theory...

I support and second your very astute and observant theory!

 

[Foot Doc]

I prefer PowerSteps to SuperFeet, but both of these products are superior to the Dr. Scholl garbage.

 

[Surfing4Answers]

Hi I thought I'd register to post my opinion in this thread. Just so you know, I searched "Dr.Sholls Review" on Google and this was the first result that appeared so congratulations on getting to page one.

Thank you residents and physicians for posting your opinion on this product. It is valuable for a consumer like myself that doesn't have the money to go to a specialist for this information and listen to the self-serving promoters for products on the internet.

After reading this thread, I have opted to go check out the other insoles mentioned in the thread (like PowerSteps). I have used Dr.Scholl's insoles in the past but I haven't found anything especially helpful for them. They do work for a few hours but like someone else mentioned, it's probably just because they're so padded.

But before I leave this alone I'd like to mention a few things that bothered me about this thread. Considering this is a student doctor network forum, I was expecting professional demeanor and insightful advice. I did get that but for the most part, but this thread is by immature bickering that serves to undermine it's authority.

While I don't have a problem with PADPM's opinion on the Dr.Sholl's insoles, I did find these comments pretty condescending toward another individual's post

First of all, this forum is not a forum for "anecdotal" stories of someone's individual failure or success with a particular treatment or product.

It isn't a "chat room".

Secondly, there will ALWAYS be exceptions. I don't deal with the "one or two" exceptions, I deal with my experience after treating thousands and thousands of patients over a career greater than 20 years.

[....]
So does that mean I should now recommend my patients start wearing Kotex maxi-pads in their shoes??? (I'm sure they're very absorbent)

To me it gives off an elitist vibe that screams,

"Good for you in your experience but shut up and get out. No one wants your unprofessional and uneducated opinion on this product in this thread. You are only one person and possibly an exception for this product, like this maxi pad example I'm giving you. See how stupid your post was. We don't care about personal opinion. This is not the place to post that.

You don't have the knowledge you gain from interacting with a larger sample of people who have actually used it. If it did work, I'd recommend it. But it doesn't. Even though I have not used it myself, my professional opinion based on the experience of patients and knowledge of the foot says so.

Your personal opinion does not compare with "my 'only' 20+ years of experience in a very busy practice." So in the future, don't post here because you don't belong here. In the bigger scheme of things, it just doesn't work so don't even try giving your point of view in this place. If you want, go to a chat room for that kind of stuff. That's the type of place your comment would be taken seriously.

But then again, I am only one person reading an internet forum. Maybe, I'm being overly sensitive. People can interpret things in different ways. To be honest, all I saw was ScottyDoo commenting on your quote regarding "no one [PADPM] ever met purchases them twice." I read his comment as, "well now you've met 1 person because I love them!" Nothing sinister, nothing self-fulfilling, just a basic "personal perspective" as he kindly stated in his post. I understand that personal, rather than professional, opinions are not welcome in this forum but it was nice to know.

While I agree that the people questioning or undermining your years of experience as a doctor are also unappreciated in this situation, I would say I agree with greenal6's assessment that

The attitude with which you have addressed the previous poster is the attitude that turns many people away from discussing issues with their physician.

I know that it turns me off. Do not make a mistake in thinking I agree with the statement that you probably act like this towards them in real life. I also think that suggestion is a low-blow. But, the attitude given off in that post is the type that would turn me away from physicians.

I would rather have a physician tell me "I'll be straight-forward with you. I recommend Product A because I've had many patients have success with it. In my opinion, Product B rarely works, wastes money, and is purely a gimmick. I've heard that some people have had success with Product B but it's rare. So I really recommend using Product A." than one that says "Use Product A not Product B. I'm a doctor, so I know the facts. So don't even try it. If it did work for you, then you'd be the exception. Hell, I even had someone have Product Z (an obscure and unrelated product) work. But it won't work just use Product A."

Maybe, it sounded differently in your head (ie. not condescending, sarcastic, unwelcoming). Maybe, you felt you could voice your opinion in that manner due to the anonymity of the internet. Maybe, you haven't been on the receiving end of a doctor's opinion lately. Who knows? Should consumers stay out of this thread? Perhaps.

But, the need to reaffirm your expertise (ie. quantifying your career/experience) and your belittlement of his "anecdotal experience" (ie. chat room reference) undermines your voice as an authority and makes me question your "professional opinion." There are many scientific studies that are based upon case studies (aka anecdotal experience) so I personally don't see why it should be written off. If he was a promoting or advertising Dr.Scholl's in a blatantly obvious way then I'd agree. But, I read his post as harmless not hostile.

::TL;DR::
As I said, I'm just person that happened upon this forum while seeking advice on insoles since it was at the top of the search results for "Dr.Scholl's review" on Google. I thought some of PADPM's advice was good concerning the insole was appreciated. However, I didn't appreciate the tone in that particular post, which is just 1 out of many. And I cannot speak for his past advice either.

Personally, the maxi pad comment just makes me want to try it out myself. I mean if it worked for one person, maybe I could be an exception also. So thank you for mentioning that because I would've never attempted to wear maxi's under my feet. Maybe, not trying Dr.Scholl's will cause me to waste money on recommended products that don't work with me because I'm an exception. Who knows? I do know that I have other recommended products I will waste my money on before I try the Dr.Scholl's since insoles only last a fixed amount of months. So if I try out something cheaper and like it before spending money on the other one, then I say "yay."

That said, I also think it's nice to hear from people that actually used the product. If they are "exceptions," it's valuable to hear both consumer and professional opinions. Ultimately, it's up to the person reading if they want to recommend/use it. Even though this is a medical forum and wants to deal with strictly professional opinions, you did come up first on the search engine for Dr.Scholl's reviews. Maybe the forum needs to be private to keep out consumers?

Anyways, feel free to disregard my "consumer-ish" viewpoint if you'd like. This thread just rubbed me the wrong way a little bit so I though that I would voice my own opinion on the matter. I have no qualms with anything else PADPM said really. Anyways, it's not like it matters anyways since I'm neither a resident nor a physician. I'm just an average person surfing for answers (haha... do you get it - sorry for being corny)

 

[vridaw]

I hate to be one of those first time posters...

But I was just wondering where a Canadian like myself can get their hands on PowerSteps ?

I was about to buy Dr. Scholls - so I searched for Google for reviews and this thread came up. I've read every post in here and I've def. learnt a lot and I've appreciated all PADPM time and effort hes put into this topic.

For myself - I've recently have had major foot pain and now pain in my thighs as well that correlate with what I think is a flat foot problem. I am planning on seeing a podiatrist but the earliest appointment I was able to get was in late October. I was hoping I'd be to get a OTC solution for the time being, as I am in a lot of pain.

I'll keep on searching for PowerSteps, but if someone can guide me that would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[PADPM]

The company has a website, www.powersteps.com. I don't know if they ship to Canada, but I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Disclaimer: I have NO financial interest in PowerSteps.


Edit: I was just on their website, and went through the menu to "order" a pair and in the address section, and did not see any country choice other than United States. However, I did see a "contact us" phone number 1-888-237-3668, so you may want to call them after you see which product you want to see if they can send to Canada or if there is a doctor or store in your area that sells the product.

 

[Feli]

Lesson for the day: get my practice's website ranked high on Google

 

[347932]

Lesson for the day: get my practice's website ranked high on Google

Absolutely!!!! You can pay to have that done as well, although it is rather easy to do on your own.

The other way to get free PR like that is get yourself all over the web and when people search for you online they get a HUGE list of locations to browse.

 

[RETROJOKE]

Hello my name is Brayan and this will be my first and last post. Some of you questioned the 1 posters; to fill your ignorance, people are google searching everyday to learn more about these Scholl custom inserts and this thread appears in the hits. That is why im here. My feet were killing me and i have chronic PF.
As far as the reviews i have read here. I am not convinced that these inserts are bad. I am going to go buy them at bed,bath, and beyond in about 15 minutes. Other reviews have been cut down the line 50/50 and this particular website has mostly negative things to say about this product. I will buy the inserts and if they are bad i will not use them. However, most of the scholls soles i have worn have provided at least some comfort above regular shoe soles so this is not going to be a devastating buy that ill regret. Buying 350 dollar inserts that dont cure my problem would.

 

[PoppaG]

Just a comment on statistics. 100 people have foot pain. 90 of them will try a product from Company X. 50 of the 100 try Product A from Company X and feel relief. 20 of the 100 try Product A and don't get relief, so then try Product B, also from Company X, and do get relief. 20 of the 100 try both Products A and B but get no relief. 10 of the 100 didn't bother to try any product.

In total 70 people got relief from products sold by Company X. Of the remaining 30, 20 go to Doctor P, 14 of whom had tried Products A and B and 6 of whom had never tried any product. The other 10, 6 of whom had tried Products A and B and 4 of whom had never tried any product, just lived in pain without visiting a doctor and without trying another OTC product.

From Company X's perspective, they helped 70 of the 90 people (78%) who tried their products. From Dr. P's perspective, 14 of the 20 people who came to him in pain (70%) had already tried two of Company X's products.

The fact that 70% of the people who come to Dr. P have already tried two products from Company X without getting any relief says nothing about what fraction of the people who didn't come to Dr. P got relief from Company X's products.

 

[347932]

Just a comment on statistics. 100 people have foot pain. 90 of them will try a product from Company X. 50 of the 100 try Product A from Company X and feel relief. 20 of the 100 try Product A and don't get relief, so then try Product B, also from Company X, and do get relief. 20 of the 100 try both Products A and B but get no relief. 10 of the 100 didn't bother to try any product.

In total 70 people got relief from products sold by Company X. Of the remaining 30, 20 go to Doctor P, 14 of whom had tried Products A and B and 6 of whom had never tried any product. The other 10, 6 of whom had tried Products A and B and 4 of whom had never tried any product, just lived in pain without visiting a doctor and without trying another OTC product.

From Company X's perspective, they helped 70 of the 90 people (78%) who tried their products. From Dr. P's perspective, 14 of the 20 people who came to him in pain (70%) had already tried two of Company X's products.

The fact that 70% of the people who come to Dr. P have already tried two products from Company X without getting any relief says nothing about what fraction of the people who didn't come to Dr. P got relief from Company X's products.

What does "relief" mean?? The fact of the matter is that yes, some people might feel "better", but if their pain continues somewhat to a "tolerable" level they feel the product is worthwhile. This is dead wrong.

Many times I see patients who got "better" using these products, but have a relapse of significant pain and then they come see us. The problem with this scenario is that if they had come to us in the first place we could have gotten them pain free MUCH sooner and long term. Also, the longer they have pain of any kind, the harder it is to improve their symptoms conservatively.

A very, very small percentage of the patients I see end up in the OR for "Heel Pain Syndrome". Of that very small percentage, the majority have had pain for over a year and have tried those OTC products, that made them "better" but then they had a relapse of pain that was worse than it was before they started using the product.

So which scenario would you prefer? Better for awhile with an OTC product without the direction of a foot and ankle expert and then get drastically worse? Or would rather see that expert FIRST and then progressively get better and eventually have no pain at all with a custom product that will most likely cost you less total than all of those OTC products you've tried all together and eventually end up in our offices anyway?

I don't think that's a difficult choice.

 

[Podfather]

Hello my name is Brayan and this will be my first and last post. Some of you questioned the 1 posters; to fill your ignorance, people are google searching everyday to learn more about these Scholl custom inserts and this thread appears in the hits. That is why im here. My feet were killing me and i have chronic PF.
As far as the reviews i have read here. I am not convinced that these inserts are bad. I am going to go buy them at bed,bath, and beyond in about 15 minutes. Other reviews have been cut down the line 50/50 and this particular website has mostly negative things to say about this product. I will buy the inserts and if they are bad i will not use them. However, most of the scholls soles i have worn have provided at least some comfort above regular shoe soles so this is not going to be a devastating buy that ill regret. Buying 350 dollar inserts that dont cure my problem would.

Look I think most doctors do not care if you want to try something off the shelf. I recommend Spenco orthotics to my patients and many do well with them. I believe the issue is the implication that these devices are somehow customized. If they were, they would not be taken off a display.

The best advice is: if your pain is not eliminated, a doctor should be consulted. There are numerous causes of heel pain. Yes plantar fasciitis is the most common but I have seen everything from bone tumors, tarsal tunnel syndrome, neuropathy, rheumatoid arthritis, lumbar radiculopathy, stress fractures, psoriatic arthritis, achilles tendinopathy, etc. present as heel pain. If the maxi pad isn't working, let a professional diagnose and treat you.

 

[krabmas]

the other problem with these OTC inserts is that an "arch support" is only one part of the treatment plan for plantar fasciitis. I think most podiatrists treat plantar fasciitis w/ an arch support, anti-inflammatory (injection or PO or ice), and stretching.

When potential patients just go pick up an insert they are only treating one aspect of the pathology - the arch instability. They are not treating the inflamation or the tight gastroc.

And yet another problem is that they call themselves "custom". When they don't work and the patient presents in our offices we then have to "convince" the patient that they in fact did not have custom orthotics and the ones that we make, while expensive, may work better, because they are actually custom.

I have been finding that many insurance companies do actually cover custom orthotics.

 

[347932]

I have been finding that many insurance companies do actually cover custom orthotics.

Which insurances?? In my state 99% don't and specifically mention in the structure of their plans that they don't cover orthotics.

Very curious about this, as my understanding is that this is a nationwide issue. Unless you're military and get it from a military lab, you're SOL around here.

 

[dtrack22]

I know Premera BlueCross, Assurant, Kaiser NW, and Group Health do. I want to say Regence BlueCross Blueshield does too...but I'm not sure.

 

[krabmas]

Which insurances?? In my state 99% don't and specifically mention in the structure of their plans that they don't cover orthotics.

Very curious about this, as my understanding is that this is a nationwide issue. Unless you're military and get it from a military lab, you're SOL around here.

I'm in silicon valley and have not had one patient yet that was denied. They check their insurance for pre-auth and it has been covered so far. There are a few insurances out here that do not cover but I haven't had to deal with those yet. And I do not recall which insurances.

 

[347932]

I'm in silicon valley and have not had one patient yet that was denied. They check their insurance for pre-auth and it has been covered so far. There are a few insurances out here that do not cover but I haven't had to deal with those yet. And I do not recall which insurances.

Wow that's amazing. Only two insurance in the state cover orthotics. One is a very small CIGNA plan which no one in my area has, and the other is Blue Cross Blue Shield Federal, which also, a very small percentage of people where I am have. Interesting that some of the HMO type plans like Kaiser pay for those.

 

[PADPM]

It's really hit or miss where I practice, though I would say that it's probably 80% of the insurances do NOT cover orthoses and 20% do cover.

On a side note, I treated two patients today who came in with heel pain that had purchased the infamous Dr. Scholl inserts from the computerized kiosk at Walmart with no relief.

Yes, I know that doesn't "statistically" mean anything, but more importantly the inserts didn't even come close to fitting either patient properly. Both patients had a relatively high arch foot, and the computer system has no ability to translate a 3 dimensional foot via it's 2 dimensional mat (as I've previously stated). Therefore, all it "knows" is that there is no pressure point in the "arch" are, so you don't have a flat foot, but it can't determine if your arch is 1/8 inch off the mat or 2 inches off the mat, etc.

Needless to say, these patients wasted fifty bucks and weren't happy campers.

So for all of those "visiting" this site who decide that you are going to ignore the professional medical advice and ARE going to purchase the Dr. Scholl products, I would urge you to save your receipt, because there IS a money back guarantee IF you have your receipt. Unfortunately both patients I treated today threw away their receipts.

 

[347932]

It's really hit or miss where I practice, though I would say that it's probably 80% of the insurances do NOT cover orthoses and 20% do cover.

On a side note, I treated two patients today who came in with heel pain that had purchased the infamous Dr. Scholl inserts from the computerized kiosk at Walmart with no relief.

Yes, I know that doesn't "statistically" mean anything, but more importantly the inserts didn't even come close to fitting either patient properly. Both patients had a relatively high arch foot, and the computer system has no ability to translate a 3 dimensional foot via it's 2 dimensional mat (as I've previously stated). Therefore, all it "knows" is that there is no pressure point in the "arch" are, so you don't have a flat foot, but it can't determine if your arch is 1/8 inch off the mat or 2 inches off the mat, etc.

Needless to say, these patients wasted fifty bucks and weren't happy campers.

So for all of those "visiting" this site who decide that you are going to ignore the professional medical advice and ARE going to purchase the Dr. Scholl products, I would urge you to save your receipt, because there IS a money back guarantee IF you have your receipt. Unfortunately both patients I treated today threw away their receipts.

The only type of "scan" type device that can very accurately assess arch height is an F-Scan based on computer extrapolation. There is still nothing as accurate as a well done negative cast. I know...call me old school.

 

[PADPM]

I'm not sure I believe in "extrapolation" data, since they are all based on models, averages, etc. There are 3D laser scanners that DO scan the entire foot and capture a complete 3D image, which I believe are more accurate than an Fscan in that regard.

Though I agree that I have had the most consistent results with good old casting.

 

[krabmas]

I am certainly not old school but I also like negative casting and only with plaster. I do not think the fiberglass slippers work very well.

 

[347932]

I'm not sure I believe in "extrapolation" data, since they are all based on models, averages, etc. There are 3D laser scanners that DO scan the entire foot and capture a complete 3D image, which I believe are more accurate than an Fscan in that regard.

Though I agree that I have had the most consistent results with good old casting.

I would like to know more about this scan that is better than the F-Scan. I thought the F-Scan was the gold standard in foot scanning technology.

Cheers to the good old plaster negative cast technique! Dr. Kendrick Whitney would be proud!!

 

[347932]

I am certainly not old school but I also like negative casting and only with plaster. I do not think the fiberglass slippers work very well.

Oh, I don't know about that Krabmas. Plaster negative casting = Old School no matter how fancy you are in the OR .

 

[fksva]

I found this site searching for info on Dr. Scholl's inserts. I've never had success with their previous products, but was wondering if perhaps they were doing something similar now to a Lynco product.

I have severe back problems and have found the Lynco inserts to be effective for me. My first experience was the mapping machine at a Walking Store and I got their brand for use in a pair of RockSports when I was doing rep work in big box retail stores. They were a big help for me.

My back problems went from bad to worse (degenerative DD) and are now further complicated with arthritis. I had to use a shopping cart as a walker when I went shopping and still had to rest several times while in a store. I obviously became sedentary and gained a good 30 pounds.

After a good deal of research from desperation, I tried inversion therapy and have had miraculous results. I have to invert daily, but I now have a nearly normal life. I can't say enough about the benefits of inversion, but that's not why I'm posting.

I started walking (I couldn't walk before inversion) and got Lynco 405 inserts. They are more padded than the model that I got from the Walking Store, but they both have the metatarsal support and do a good job for me. I've lost 30 pounds and in addition to the inversion I do 10 pullups 2-3 times a day. I've tried some running, but that creates nerve root inflammation, so I have to stick with walking.



Regarding the comments on 'attitudes' of some of the posters, some patients respond to soft bed side manners and some need to be kicked in the ass. I think a good doctor tailors their approach depending on the patient. A forum doesn't allow interaction through body language and the ability to look into one's eyes, so criticism here is really pointless. I, for one, am very thankful for experienced, knowledgeable professionals taking their time on a forum like this to freely give of themselves for individuals like myself.

I've pretty well concluded that while the Scholls may work for a few individuals, it's not worth the time or money for me. I don't see it as being a contender to the more recognized products.

 

[PADPM]

I'm not sure this is the correct forum to search for advice on which is the best OTC insert, etc.

The real intention of this forum is for podiatric students, podiatric residents and practicing podiatric physicians to interact, it's really not intended to answer "consumer" questions or function as a medical advice forum.

So prior to answering any medical advice questions, I will defer that to the moderators of this site to see if that's the direction that want to head.