lapel pin on white coat: appropriate? tacky?

[Lucca]

I feel like people haven’t really drilled the point home that broadcasting LGBTQ+ allyship *is* relevant in a healthcare setting and some keep alluding that it’s this purely ideological thing that’s totally weird to broadcast in a hospital. Queer and trans folks have specific healthcare needs and challenges. My challenge to anyone who thinks otherwise is to go on any LGBTQ+ online community and listen to people talk about how difficult it is to find a provider that gets that and is well informed about the issues.

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[Osminog]

I feel like people haven’t really drilled the point home that broadcasting LGBTQ+ allyship *is* relevant in a healthcare setting and some keep alluding that it’s this purely ideological thing that’s totally weird to broadcast in a hospital. Queer and trans folks have specific healthcare needs and challenges. My challenge to anyone who thinks otherwise is to go on any LGBTQ+ online community and listen to people talk about how difficult it is to find a provider that gets that and is well informed about the issues.

Obviously, if a physician has exceptional competence in LGBT health matters (e.g., extensive knowledge about the side effects of hormone therapy), then he should advertise himself as an expert on LGBT health. He should tell his LGBT patients that he is an expert on these matters so that they can pass that information along to others in their community, and he should tell his colleagues so that they can redirect their patients to him if LGBT-related concerns arise. He can even have his online professional profile changed to include that he is an expert on LGBT health.

But advertising oneself as an expert on particular health-related matters is completely different from morally advocating for a lifestyle/subculture. The former isn't going to be a problem, because none of your patients, even the most conservative Christians, is going to tell you that LGBT people don't deserve healthcare and shouldn't receive competent care. The latter is going to be a problem, though, because millions of Americans (including people who will end up being your patients) passionately believe that LGBT people behave immorally and stray from God's wishes—and whether you agree or disagree with these millions of Americans has nothing to do with your role as a physician. Leave the LGBT Pride pin at home and wear it when you're not at work.

 

[deleted407021]

passionately believe that LGBT people behave immorally and stray from God's wishes—and whether you agree or disagree with these millions of Americans has nothing to do with your role as a physician

That’s your opinion and it’s not universal.

 

[Osminog]

That’s your opinion and it’s not universal.

Here's the first line from the Wikipedia page for "Physician":

A physician [...] is a professional who practises medicine, which is concerned with promoting, maintaining, or restoring health through the study, diagnosis, prognosis and treatment of disease, injury, and other physical and mental impairments.

If you think that part of a physician's professional role is to promote his personal opinions on theological and non-health-related social topics, then I don't know what to tell you. Most people don't share your fringe perspective on this subject.

 

[deleted407021]

Here's the first line from the Wikipedia page for "Physician":


If you think that part of a physician's professional role is to promote his personal opinions on theological and non-health-related social topics, then I don't know what to tell you. Most people don't share your fringe perspective on this subject.

What do you think my perspective is on this subject?

 

[mehc012]

A person generally wears a yarmulke to fulfill a personal obligation that he feels he has to God, and he would do so even if he were surrounded only by blind people who couldn't even see the yarmulke—because it's something that's strictly between him and God, and it is not meant to be a promotional activity. Meanwhile, a person wears a Pride pin to promote LGBT pride and to show support for the LGBT community; it is a symbolic statement, meant to convey a message and to be recognized by others.

Again, it's unprofessional for a physician to engage in non-healthcare-related promotional activities in the workplace, whether his motivations are religious or not, especially when what is being promoted is controversial and divisive in modern-day America. And if you think that people generally wear Pride pins for non-promotional reasons, then you're just being disingenuous; the point of the LGBT Pride movement is to promote public acceptance of the LGBT community.



It's unprofessional to not be inclusive when you're in a human-centered profession.

I would legitimately wear a rainbow cadeuceus when surrounded by blind people. It's not about being seen by others, it's about how I see myself.

Again, you're making a LOT of assumptions about the motivations and meanings behind these choices, and then judging based on those (inaccurate) assumptions.

 

[Lawpy]

Obviously, if a physician has exceptional competence in LGBT health matters (e.g., extensive knowledge about the side effects of hormone therapy), then he should advertise himself as an expert on LGBT health. He should tell his LGBT patients that he is an expert on these matters so that they can pass that information along to others in their community, and he should tell his colleagues so that they can redirect their patients to him if LGBT-related concerns arise. He can even have his online professional profile changed to include that he is an expert on LGBT health.

But advertising oneself as an expert on particular health-related matters is completely different from morally advocating for a lifestyle/subculture. The former isn't going to be a problem, because none of your patients, even the most conservative Christians, is going to tell you that LGBT people don't deserve healthcare and shouldn't receive competent care. The latter is going to be a problem, though, because millions of Americans (including people who will end up being your patients) passionately believe that LGBT people behave immorally and stray from God's wishes—and whether you agree or disagree with these millions of Americans has nothing to do with your role as a physician. Leave the LGBT Pride pin at home and wear it when you're not at work.

Here's the first line from the Wikipedia page for "Physician":


If you think that part of a physician's professional role is to promote his personal opinions on theological and non-health-related social topics, then I don't know what to tell you. Most people don't share your fringe perspective on this subject.

If patients have a problem with their physician wearing a pride lapel pin for showing solidarity with LGBT patients and seeking to address their health issues, they can see other physicians. There will be patients with racist, sexist, homophobic etc. views and they have the right to see whoever they want. That does not mean physicians/trainees/students displaying LGBT solidarity should suppress their beliefs and allyship just because of possibly fearing to offend patients with prejudiced views.

 

[Dave1980]

This has been an interesting topic. OP I hope you see that people have strong feelings on both sides of this topic and do not wear that pin.

In general the pre-meds and med students seem to think it's a good idea and those who have gone through medical training seem to think it's a bad idea. It might be a generational thing or it might be because those who have gone through training know what it's like to work in a hospital system with all different sorts of patients.

 

[mehc012]

This has been an interesting topic. OP I hope you see that people have strong feelings on both sides of this topic and do not wear that pin.

In general the pre-meds and med students seem to think it's a good idea and those who have gone through medical training seem to think it's a bad idea. It might be a generational thing or it might be because those who have gone through training know what it's like to work in a hospital system with all different sorts of patients.

Soooo...because people feel strongly both ways, you expect OP to go along with the side you agree with?

It's absolutely a generational thing, and it's the sort of generational thing I look forward to doing away with as more of us graduate. But sure, I'll be more than happy to update in a year when I'm no longer a med student and still wearing my pin.

 

[Dave1980]

Soooo...because people feel strongly both ways, you expect OP to go along with the side you agree with?

It's absolutely a generational thing, and it's the sort of generational thing I look forward to doing away with as more of us graduate. But sure, I'll be more than happy to update in a year when I'm no longer a med student and still wearing my pin.

If there is a topic that is very divisive it is best to avoid it altogether in the professional environment.

Also sorry to tell you this but you don't walk into the hospital on July 1st and get the respect of any Attendings. You need to earn it. See you in (a minimum of) 4 years.

 

[mehc012]

If there is a topic that is very divisive it is best to avoid it altogether in the professional environment.

Also sorry to tell you this but you don't walk into the hospital on July 1st and get the respect of any Attendings. You need to earn it. See you in (a minimum of) 4 years.

Didn't expect to. But I did expect you to keep moving the bar. In 4 years it will be 10, and so on.
I've worn a pin for the past 3yrs, and it hasn't been divisive or caused controversy at all. It's literally only on SDN where people make such a big deal over such inconsequential things.

 

[christiknow]

The crux of this thread seems to be that older/more conservative folks view things like climate change and LGBT issues to be inherently political and therefore unprofessional, whereas stuff like military support is fine because it's basic civics / patriotism. On the other hand, a whole different segment of the population views climate change as basic scientific fact and LGBT acceptance as basic human decency, and "patriotism" / military support as a very politically loaded concept. This thread ain't gonna resolve these worldviews and whether OP wears a rainbow pin or not isn't going to be the end of the world.

 

[Dave1980]

The crux of this thread seems to be that older/more conservative folks view things like climate change and LGBT issues to be inherently political and therefore unprofessional, whereas stuff like military support is fine because it's basic civics / patriotism. On the other hand, a whole different segment of the population views climate change as basic scientific fact and LGBT acceptance as basic human decency, and "patriotism" / military support as a very politically loaded concept. This thread ain't gonna resolve these worldviews and whether OP wears a rainbow pin or not isn't going to be the end of the world.

Ugh

 

[Lawpy]

This has been an interesting topic. OP I hope you see that people have strong feelings on both sides of this topic and do not wear that pin.

In general the pre-meds and med students seem to think it's a good idea and those who have gone through medical training seem to think it's a bad idea. It might be a generational thing or it might be because those who have gone through training know what it's like to work in a hospital system with all different sorts of patients.

If there is a topic that is very divisive it is best to avoid it altogether in the professional environment.

Also sorry to tell you this but you don't walk into the hospital on July 1st and get the respect of any Attendings. You need to earn it. See you in (a minimum of) 4 years.

I'm trying to understand how exactly it's a bad idea. The leading answer is to avoid offending patients with prejudiced views. That isn't an issue because those patients are free to choose whoever they want. That's not enough for physicians/trainees/students to suppress their solidarity for LGBT community.

 

[Osminog]

I'm trying to understand how exactly it's a bad idea. The leading answer is to avoid offending patients with prejudiced views. That isn't an issue because those patients are free to choose whoever they want. That's not enough for physicians/trainees/students to suppress their solidarity for LGBT community.

It's unprofessional to needlessly alienate people in your workplace by expressing views that have nothing to do with your job. Airing opinions that have nothing to do with your role as a physician and thereby causing breakdowns in your relationships with patients is an issue. A major part of being an effective physician is being able to build relationships of comfort and trust with a wide variety of people, including those who might disagree with you on religious, political, and philosophical matters.

As a physician, you're at work to serve as a medical expert, not to serve as a moral authority on non-healthcare social issues. If you have pet social causes, fight for them outside of work. At work, the only thing you should be fighting for is your patients' health, whether they're gay atheists or conservative Christians. Any controversial non-healthcare-related opinions you may have, as important as they may be to you, aren't relevant when you're at work and need to be set aside.

 

[SawyerMoccassin]

It's obviously okay to tell LGBT patients that you are able to support their health-related needs. That being said, it's not okay to engage in pro-LGBT advocacy in front of all of your patients; this would include sporting politically provocative attire.

Imagine if a physician came to work wearing a MAGA hat, effectively ruining his relationship with most of his minority and LGBT patients. Would your "the choice to be offended or not is theirs" reasoning still fly in this case? No. Would an appropriate justification for this behavior be, "Oh, I'm just trying to signal to Christians and conservatives that I can suit their needs and teach their kids about God and abstinence"? No. It's inappropriate, plain and simple, because physicians shouldn't be engaging in non-health-related social advocacy in front of all of their patients. Such behavior serves to alienate people, and it breaks down the physician-patient relationship.



Not wearing a rainbow pin is much more reasonable and less burdensome than changing one's name or abandoning one's personal religious obligations (e.g., wearing a yarmulke or hijab). Please note that people who wear yarmulkes don't do so for advocacy purposes; they do it because they have a deep belief that that's what God wants them to do.

I'm not saying that physicians have to proactively alter fundamental parts of their identities in order to accommodate patients. I'm saying that, when possible, physicians should avoid non-health-related social advocacy in the workplace; the goal should be to appear as unbiased as possible when interacting with patients and colleagues.

the fact that a pride pin is being compared to a MAGA hat has me ROLLING.

 

[Osminog]

the fact that a pride pin is being compared to a MAGA hat has me ROLLING.

Roll all you want. They're both symbols that are meant to promote certain sociopolitical causes, and they're both viewed unfavorably by millions of Americans. I'm guessing you support one of these causes but not the other, so it annoys you to see them being compared... but that's too bad, I guess. My analogy is still apt.

 

[SawyerMoccassin]

Roll all you want. They're both symbols that are meant to promote certain sociopolitical causes, and they're both viewed unfavorably by millions of Americans. I'm guessing you support one of these causes but not the other, so it annoys you to see them being compared... but that's too bad, I guess. My analogy is still apt.

One assumes MANY (controversial) ideas, one is simply supporting a marginalized group of people.

I hope one of you guys don't get an MMI question that's like this lmao

 

[Dave1980]

Roll all you want. They're both symbols that are meant to promote certain sociopolitical causes, and they're both viewed unfavorably by millions of Americans. I'm guessing you support one of these causes but not the other, so it annoys you to see them being compared... but that's too bad, I guess. My analogy is still apt.

Agreed. I don't support Trump/MAGA and I do support all LGBT people/rights but neither of those 2 symbols belong in the hospital.

I am just imagining Lawper in the ED taking care of a hemiplegic born-again Christian having a stroke and explaining that they may want to seek out a different doctor.

 

[Lawpy]

It's unprofessional to needlessly alienate people in your workplace by expressing views that have nothing to do with your job. Airing opinions that have nothing to do with your role as a physician and thereby causing breakdowns in your relationships with patients is an issue. A major part of being an effective physician is being able to build relationships of comfort and trust with a wide variety of people, including those who might disagree with you on religious, political, and philosophical matters.

As a physician, you're at work to serve as a medical expert, not to serve as a moral authority on non-healthcare social issues. If you have pet social causes, fight for them outside of work. At work, the only thing you should be fighting for is your patients' health, whether they're gay atheists or conservative Christians. Any controversial non-healthcare-related opinions you may have, as important as they may be to you, aren't relevant when you're at work and need to be set aside.

Do you realize that the LGBT community has specific health issues that physicians/trainees sympathetic to their concerns would be able to address personally and empathetically? People are drawing up weird comparisons with MAGA to make a sociopolitical point, but LGBT allyship and solidarity are pertaining to unique healthcare issues specific to the community. This is why recognizing sociocultural aspects of healthcare are critical here.

Also, I think SDN is massively exaggerating the problem here because I sincerely doubt even patients with prejudiced views would hold them so extreme that a pride lapel pin would lead to breakdown in professional relationships that would compromise their care.

Agreed. I don't support Trump/MAGA and I do support all LGBT people/rights but neither of those 2 symbols belong in the hospital.

I am just imagining Lawper in the ED taking care of a hemiplegic born-again Christian having a stroke and explaining that they may want to seek out a different doctor.

There wouldn't be a need for that unless the patient/family specifically demands it despite the explanations. But again I think SDN is exaggerating the issue if a pride lapel pin would go so far to compromise professional relationships.

 

[deleted980662]

my school's official instagram and facebook pages just featured dozens of students, administrators, and faculty wearing rainbows at a pride parade. apparently they've also launched an LGBT healthcare equality campaign (featuring quite a few rainbow-colored posters) throughout their associated hospital.

this discussion gave me a lot to consider, but after seeing that, i'm likely to wear the pin. can't wait to attend this school!

 

[Osminog]

Do you realize that the LGBT community has specific health issues that physicians/trainees sympathetic to their concerns would be able to address personally and empathetically? People are drawing up weird comparisons with MAGA to make a sociopolitical point, but LGBT allyship and solidarity are pertaining to unique healthcare issues specific to the community. This is why recognizing sociocultural aspects of healthcare are critical here.

I addressed this point in my response to Lucca. Again: advertising oneself as an expert on particular health-related matters is completely different from morally advocating for a lifestyle/subculture. "LGBT Pride" pins don't convey a message specific to healthcare; they are conveying the message that it is okay to be LGBT and that the LGBT community ought to be embraced; this is a message that millions of Americans disagree with, and it is one that is outside the bounds of what is relevant to the role of a physician in a patient care setting.

Also, I think SDN is massively exaggerating the problem here because I sincerely doubt even patients with prejudiced views would hold them so extreme that a pride lapel pin would lead to breakdown in professional relationships that would compromise their care.

One, it's really a matter of principle. The entire mentality of "Oh, I'll go to work with my personal opinions clipped to my chest, and if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere!" is extremely immature and egocentric. Two, there are people who have very strong Biblical worldviews and would be far less comfortable being treated by a physician who openly promotes lifestyles that they believe are wrong. Have you ever worked in a rural Bible belt community?

 

[Lawpy]

I addressed this point in my response to Lucca. Again: advertising oneself as an expert on particular health-related matters is completely different from morally advocating for a lifestyle/subculture. "LGBT Pride" pins don't convey a message specific to healthcare; they are conveying the message that it is okay to be LGBT and that the LGBT community ought to be embraced; this is a message that millions of Americans disagree with, and it is one that is outside the bounds of what is relevant to the role of a physician in a patient care setting.



One, it's really a matter of principle. The entire mentality of "Oh, I'll go to work with my personal opinions clipped to my chest, and if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere!" is extremely immature and egocentric. Two, there are people who have very strong Biblical worldviews and would be far comfortable being treated by a physician who openly promotes lifestyles that they believe are wrong. Have you ever worked in a rural Bible belt community?

There are also many Americans who have strong racist and sexist views and would probably not be okay with having physicians who are women or from minority backgrounds. They are free to choose whatever physicians they want because that's their right. Just because people are prejudiced doesn't mean physicians/trainees should suppress their views and solidarity. Doing so would only reinforce existing prejudices while compromising care of patients from marginalized communities.

 

[Lawpy]

my school's official instagram and facebook pages just featured dozens of students, administrators, and faculty wearing rainbows at a pride parade. apparently they've also launched an LGBT healthcare equality campaign (featuring quite a few rainbow-colored posters) throughout their associated hospital.

this discussion gave me a lot to consider, but after seeing that, i'm likely to wear the pin. can't wait to attend this school!

Congrats! It's a good decision. SDN has the unfortunate tendency to exaggerate things irrationally and turn a trivial issue like lapel pins into a major crisis.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Definitely take a bit to feel out your schools culture, OP, but I will say that a tasteful pride pin would not be out of place at all at many schools, including mine.

My school library has had a giant bowl of rainbow stickers for ID badges on one of the front tables for most of the year, at this point a pretty large number of students have these stickers on their IDs, to the point that at least one person I know was convinced that our entire class was queer (some actually are, but others just wear them to demonstrate support). They have generally been well received, or just not noticed. The only time I've heard a comment from faculty was from an attending who himself is quite openly gay, and he was just curious about where all the stickers were coming from.

I also know many people who wear lapel pins other than those provided by the school, representing various causes/identities/beliefs/interests. Pins are definitely a bigger thing in our school culture than at other schools though (up until this year we had a "pinning" ceremony for our school pin instead of a white coat ceremony, although that's changing this year). Lots of student groups have pins of their own, and many people choose to add their own pins (generally tasteful, and can be good conversation starters). I get the sense that people often wear fewer pins as they get further into clinical years, but it seems to be more of an issue of practicality (taking them off to wash the coat, etc can get annoying) than disapproval.

Also, re: MAGA hats - I'd say that a red trucker hat of any kind (regardless of the message on it) is inappropriate in the hospital, just because its an ugly hat.

 

[deleted407021]

@Osminog, answer my question.

 

[mehc012]

I addressed this point in my response to Lucca. Again: advertising oneself as an expert on particular health-related matters is completely different from morally advocating for a lifestyle/subculture. "LGBT Pride" pins don't convey a message specific to healthcare; they are conveying the message that it is okay to be LGBT and that the LGBT community ought to be embraced; this is a message that millions of Americans disagree with, and it is one that is outside the bounds of what is relevant to the role of a physician in a patient care setting.



One, it's really a matter of principle. The entire mentality of "Oh, I'll go to work with my personal opinions clipped to my chest, and if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere!" is extremely immature and egocentric. Two, there are people who have very strong Biblical worldviews and would be far less comfortable being treated by a physician who openly promotes lifestyles that they believe are wrong. Have you ever worked in a rural Bible belt community?

And again, there are people who are very NON religious and the entire phenomenon makes them uncomfortable. Are you fervently advocating against all religiously-associated hospitals and medical schools? Because there are a LOT of them.

 

[Osminog]

And again, there are people who are very NON religious and the entire phenomenon makes them uncomfortable. Are you fervently advocating against all religiously-associated hospitals and medical schools? Because there are a LOT of them.

If physicians or hospital administrators were promoting a particular religious agenda in front of patients, then I'd surely be opposed to that.

Do you seriously not see a difference between having a personal identity and promoting a viewpoint? An LGBT Pride pin is really saying, "The LGBT lifestyle ought to be accepted and embraced by society at large," because that's the underlying purpose of the LGBT Pride movement. Wearing a yarmulke is a matter of fulfilling a religious obligation; it's not about telling people how things ought to be in the world. Likewise, a hospital's identifying itself as Catholic isn't meant to be prescriptive in nature; it's just the hospital's stating the fact that its parent organization is Catholic. How could you not see this distinction?

 

[radsisrad]

Then I guess they're out of luck, then, because unfortunately there are very few straight, white, older men in the medical profession and...wait, what was I saying again?

>quoted post refers specifically to sexual orientation

> you bring in race, age, and biological sex


Nope... no bias showing at all here!

 

[radsisrad]

I'm trying to understand how exactly it's a bad idea. The leading answer is to avoid offending patients with prejudiced views. That isn't an issue because those patients are free to choose whoever they want. That's not enough for physicians/trainees/students to suppress their solidarity for LGBT community.

The issue isn't (mainly) the patients. The issue is that all but the most politically-vocal attending physicians (on either side of the political aisle) will view such adornment of the white coat as unprofessional.

While my view is that all political messaging should stay out of the clinic/hospital, I would find it far less objectionable if a physician wore a pin *without* a white coat. It's the combination that creates a medical-political connection where one ought not to exist. Plus, it's 2019... white coats are for nurses. Hehe.

 

[siliso]

It is encouraged officially in my place of work (VA), for anyone who is willing, not only members of the group. Pin or lanyard or posters in office, with rainbow and message “we serve all who served.” For conveying welcome to people who have often felt unwelcome or alienated in healthcare settings, a professionalism objective. Other people unlikely to notice or take offense at all, in my observation.

 

[deleted407021]

The idea that health and politics aren’t connected lol

 

[siliso]

Politics = who gets what, when and how. Of course connected.

 

[siliso]

Also - “You are welcome to get respectful, professional medical care in my office” is an important message that conflicts not at all with my orthodox Catholic religious beliefs. They are welcome and for good reason may have doubts about whether they are welcome, so some reassurance could be powerful. Trump supporters, vegans, leftists haven’t been historically and currently alienated by and excluded from respectful professional care, so I don’t think the comparison is relevant.

 

[mehc012]

>quoted post refers specifically to sexual orientation

> you bring in race, age, and biological sex


Nope... no bias showing at all here!

Quoted poster understands my joke, which is all that was intended.
I cited all of the above factors in my first in-depth response to this thread ages back...everything since is just chattering for fun, I made my point on page 1 and haven't seen anything that contradicts it yet.

 

[mehc012]

The issue isn't (mainly) the patients. The issue is that all but the most politically-vocal attending physicians (on either side of the political aisle) will view such adornment of the white coat as unprofessional.

While my view is that all political messaging should stay out of the clinic/hospital, I would find it far less objectionable if a physician wore a pin *without* a white coat. It's the combination that creates a medical-political connection where one ought not to exist. Plus, it's 2019... white coats are for nurses. Hehe.

First, it's more like "none but the most nitpicky physicians, regardless of side of the political aisle"...you're drastically overestimating how many people care about what I've got on my coat.

Second, why should I care about what those other attending physicians think? What makes their opinion matter more than mine? I've got no professional obligation to them. I won't be a jerk, but if they don't like my clothes or my comportment, well...I don't want to work in their employ anyway, and otherwise we're just coworkers.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Likewise, a hospital's identifying itself as Catholic isn't meant to be prescriptive in nature; it's just the hospital's stating the fact that its parent organization is Catholic. How could you not see this distinction?

Have you spent much time in a catholic hospital? Many of them have very obvious religious symbols in patient care spaces that are much more intrusive than a small, unassuming pin on a medical student's lapel. I understand the point of having a cross on the wall in a patient room (to identify the organization's catholic roots, as you said), but that feels much more "prescriptive" than a small pin or a physician's personal choice to wear a yarmulke. The cross on the wall isn't fulfilling any personal religious obligation that I am aware of, and isn't limited to a single person.

 

[mehc012]

Have you spent much time in a catholic hospital? Many of them have very obvious religious symbols in patient care spaces that are much more intrusive than a small, unassuming pin on a medical student's lapel. I understand the point of having a cross on the wall in a patient room (to identify the organization's catholic roots, as you said), but that feels much more "prescriptive" than a small pin or a physician's personal choice to wear a yarmulke. The cross on the wall isn't fulfilling any personal religious obligation that I am aware of, and isn't limited to a single person.

Exactly...I love how when it's Catholic, "it's just stating the fact that the parent organization is Catholic" which is somehow completely apolitical and non-controversial, but when it's a Pride pin, it's somehow a flagrant attempt to push political beliefs onto others.

Just because it's not uncomfortable for those posters, doesn't mean it's not uncomfortable to some patients. I have been a patient, and let me tell you, I would transfer out of a religious hospital as quickly as humanly possible. Worse, in that instance the marketing is alienating me from an entire population of care providers, not just one. But apparently that's not as justifiable of a discomfort as disliking an individual doctor for being openly welcoming to other people I dislike?

 

[penpenclown]

I don't really understand the argument that LGBTQ+ acceptance is irrelevant to healthcare. Go talk to some people in that community and see how many have lied about their sexual orientation/history to healthcare workers because they don't feel comfortable disclosing their sexuality to people they think won't be accepting/will judge them/will practice differently/etc. if they find out.

 

[chlorocruorin]

I believe that you absolutely have the right to wear the pin. Be cautious of people that aren’t exactly open to the idea OP. Whatever makes you the best physician. And I don’t believe it’s pushing a political agenda. To the people saying that...

 

[WedgeDawg]

Social Determinants of Health

SDOH are the conditions in which people are born, grow, work, live, and age.

www.cdc.gov

https://catalyst.nejm.org/social-determinants-of-health/

The Healthy People 2020 website has been archived.

www.healthypeople.gov

LGBTQ+ identity is a pretty important part of social determinants of health... which absolutely affect how patients do. So the argument that it's not "healthcare related" doesn't really work.

If physicians or hospital administrators were promoting a particular religious agenda in front of patients, then I'd surely be opposed to that.

Do you seriously not see a difference between having a personal identity and promoting a viewpoint? An LGBT Pride pin is really saying, "The LGBT lifestyle ought to be accepted and embraced by society at large," because that's the underlying purpose of the LGBT Pride movement. Wearing a yarmulke is a matter of fulfilling a religious obligation; it's not about telling people how things ought to be in the world. Likewise, a hospital's identifying itself as Catholic isn't meant to be prescriptive in nature; it's just the hospital's stating the fact that its parent organization is Catholic. How could you not see this distinction?

I can't really see any distinction important to your argument between a cross necklace implying "I am a Christian" and a pride pin implying "I support the health and personhood of LGBTQ+ individuals".

Additionally, in practice, you'll find that if someone asks you literally anything about the pride pin you're wearing (out of ignorance, fear, disdain, hatred, literally whatever), you can diffuse the situation by saying something like "I wear this pin because I want to make sure my LGBTQ patients feel comfortable so that I can properly treat and care for them" and you're done. If it offends a patient so much that it significantly impedes treatment, you can take it off when seeing that patient, but the likelihood of that happening is pretty much 0. No patient or family member is going to draw you into an argument about it. If an attending or admin is going to have a problem with it, it would have to be with wearing pins at all and not just the pride pin because otherwise that would be a huge potential HR headache for them.

Bottom line:

this thread is so incredibly hyperbolic even for SDN

 

[radsisrad]

Social Determinants of Health

SDOH are the conditions in which people are born, grow, work, live, and age.

www.cdc.gov

https://catalyst.nejm.org/social-determinants-of-health/

The Healthy People 2020 website has been archived.

www.healthypeople.gov

LGBTQ+ identity is a pretty important part of social determinants of health... which absolutely affect how patients do. So the argument that it's not "healthcare related" doesn't really work.




I can't really see any distinction important to your argument between a cross necklace implying "I am a Christian" and a pride pin implying "I support the health and personhood of LGBTQ+ individuals".

Additionally, in practice, you'll find that if someone asks you literally anything about the pride pin you're wearing (out of ignorance, fear, disdain, hatred, literally whatever), you can diffuse the situation by saying something like "I wear this pin because I want to make sure my LGBTQ patients feel comfortable so that I can properly treat and care for them" and you're done. If it offends a patient so much that it significantly impedes treatment, you can take it off when seeing that patient, but the likelihood of that happening is pretty much 0. No patient or family member is going to draw you into an argument about it. If an attending or admin is going to have a problem with it, it would have to be with wearing pins at all and not just the pride pin because otherwise that would be a huge potential HR headache for them.

Bottom line:

this thread is so incredibly hyperbolic even for SDN

See bolded text. You seem to have forgotten to mention curiosity. Your bias is also showing.

 

[mehc012]

See bolded text. You seem to have forgotten to mention curiosity. Your bias is also showing.

That would be covered under 'literally whatever'. It's also less relevant, as the entire argument against such pins in this thread is the risk of someone with a negative reaction noticing the pin, which goes more with the listed motivations.

Also, how does that negate the rest of his point?

 

[radsisrad]

That would be covered under 'literally whatever'. It's also less relevant, as the entire argument against such pins in this thread is the risk of someone with a negative reaction noticing the pin, which goes more with the listed motivations.

Also, how does that negate the rest of his point?

There's so much wrong with the post I quoted above that it's difficult to know on which parts to focus my time.

Perhaps the most egregious error is the implication that the "pride" rainbow has so innocuous and neutral a meaning as to "support the health and personhood of LGBTQ+ individuals."

It's also quite an interesting flourish to lump "LGBTQ+" patients (what on earth does the "+" mean, anyway?) together. Lesbians, male homosexuals, and transgender (i.e., gender-dysphoric) patients suffer from very different sets of medical and psychiatric issues. That lumping-together is a political move.

 

[mehc012]

There's so much wrong with the post I quoted above that it's difficult to know on which parts to focus my time.

Perhaps the most egregious error is the implication that the "pride" rainbow has so innocuous and neutral a meaning as to "support the health and personhood of LGBTQ+ individuals."

It's also quite an interesting flourish to lump "LGBTQ+" patients (what on earth does the "+" mean, anyway?) together. Lesbians, male homosexuals, and transgender (i.e., gender-dysphoric) patients suffer from very different sets of medical and psychiatric issues. That lumping-together is a political move.

You insist on projecting your own meaning onto this symbol despite multiple people who are actually using the symbol telling you what they mean by it. Your bias is showing.

As for the second half...what on earth are you even talking about? Referring to LGBT patients as LGBT is now inherently political in of itself?


You can google what the plus stands for, but generally it's just any variation in gender or sexuality that isn't sufficiently described by the preceding letters. Use your imagination.

 

[Osminog]

At the end of the day, this discussion is pointless. People who want to wear pins to support their pet political causes will wear pins regardless of what anybody tells them. They’ll even go as far as to repeatedly make the disingenuous claim that their views aren’t political at all but are rather innocuous, commonsense expressions of basic human decency. You see, they consider their political causes to be far more important than their capacity to form strong bonds with patients who happen to disagree with their views. After all, patients who don’t share their worldview are all “bigots.” If a patient dares to feel uncomfortable or alienated when being treated by someone who needlessly celebrates what the patient considers sinful right in his face, who cares? Let that evil bigot go find another doctor if he doesn’t believe in climate change, LGBT pride, immigration reform, Bernie Sanders’ 2020 campaign platform, etc.!

 

[mehc012]

At the end of the day, this discussion is pointless. People who want to wear pins to support their pet political causes will wear pins regardless of what anybody tells them. They’ll even go as far as to repeatedly make the disingenuous claim that their views aren’t political at all but are rather innocuous, commonsense expressions of basic human decency. You see, they consider their political causes to be far more important than their capacity to form strong bonds with patients who happen to disagree with their views. After all, patients who don’t share their worldview are all “bigots.” If a patient dares to feel uncomfortable or alienated when being treated by someone who needlessly celebrates what the patient considers sinful right in his face, who cares? Let that evil bigot go find another doctor if he doesn’t believe in climate change, LGBT pride, immigration reform, Bernie Sanders’ 2020 campaign platform, etc.!

And if I consider Christianity one of the worst scourges the Earth has faced? Are we gonna pull down all the Lutheran hospitals because they might offend me?

 

[Smurfette]

The original question has been answered and the OP has let us know what s/he is thinking.

Closing thread.

Those who wish to further discuss the ongoing argument are welcome to do so in SPF.