Kimberly Cox

[MoeDaMan]

Just wanted to say u have such a cool name, sounds like Kimberly Fox

anyway, important question....

how long does it take to become a:

1) Orthopedic surgeon, and how competitive is it? how can you become one? etc etc
2) plastic surgeon same questions
3) Neurosurgeon


Also, how do u break bad news to relatives....epsecially if god forbid a patient dies and one is responsible for his/her death (not necessarily through incompetence but rather difficulty of surgery)

do u give an optimistic prognosis before surgery even if u know the patient might not make it through the surgery? or are u cold and just blurt out the facts.....40% chance of recovery, 20% etc etc....thanks

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[ghettobird]

According to the quote area of her messages, Kimberli started her PGY1 in surgery on 7/1. "She is in her own hell, and quite unreachable." (Hellraiser)
Goodbye, Kimberli.

 

[tidy_kiwi]

I'll apologise for hitching a ride on this post but just wanted to say thanks to Kimberli for all her extremely helpful info on SDN and other forums in regards to med school in Oz, it has been a big help.

Keep on trucking!

 

[mcwmark]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•

how long does it take to become a:

1) Orthopedic surgeon, and how competitive is it? how can you become one? etc etc
2) plastic surgeon same questions
3) Neurosurgeon


•

Ortho- 5 year residency, very competitive. Do well in med school, score very well on your boards, and do very well in clerkships.
Plastics- same as ortho.
Neuro- same as ortho, except 6-8 year residency.

Each person has their own "style" on delivering bad news, but I feel the best way is to say, "I'm sorry, but I have some bad news..." so you prepare them--it's of no use, and perhaps detrimental to try to start off with small talk and then get into the bad news.

As for prognosis, I would be frank, but optimistic with survival rates. "Everything will be all right" is not something I would say...but again, everyone has their own way of delivering the news.

 

[MoeDaMan]

Thanks mark I really appreciate your response

couple of follow ups...

if I get enrolled in med school and it is on a pass/fail system, then what constitutes "doing well in med school"? Don't we all just pass

what do you mean by clerkship?

and with boards, does the UCLME matter, or is it just the medical board that is important?

thnx not in med school yet, but curious

how comepetitive is med school? is it worse than undergrad? are pple after each other?

 

[lilycat]

1) P/F schools -- these schools will sometimes have more thorough evals for your last two clinical years, which will carry a lot of weight for residency, as I understand it. Also, your board scores will factor in significantly.

2) clerkships are essentially your clinical rotations during 3rd and 4th years of med school

3) USMLE = "the boards." I believe there are three steps. Step 1 of the USMLE is usually done after the second year of med school, and most residency programs will want to see/require that score. For more competitive programs (such as the ones that you mentioned), you generally need a higher score on the USMLE. It's kind of like the MCATs and applying to the "top 5" schools in the country -- higher scores will definitely help you.

4) Not sure about the competition in med school yet, but it sounds like it varies a lot from school to school.

If anyone has more accurate information, please feel free to correct me, or add to what I've mentioned.

 

[AJM]

lilycat gave you good information. I'll just add a couple more things:

As far as the P/F schools -- most of them have honors/pass/fail in the clinical years, or they have more extensive clinical evaluations, or both. Many P/F schools still rank their students -- that's shown by students getting into AOA (the med school honor society), although more and more schools are designating AOA after students get their residency match. Also, with the P/F schools, it becomes more important for the med students to make themselves a little more unique by doing some extracurricular's, research, etc.

As far as competition in med school -- it does vary a lot between schools. The best way for you to get a feel for the competition at a school you're applying at it to see what the school is like on your interview. In general, though, I think most med students are more cooperative and help each other out more than the average pre-med. Most schools that I interviewed at, students all were in study groups, tutored each other, made study guides for their classmates, etc. So while med school classes are more work than the pre-med req's, it's a much more friendly learning environment. (but again, there's huge variability...)

 

[MoeDaMan]

thanks lilycat and ajm....

another follow up...so if I want to get into those competive programs...is it in my best advantage to go into a school that isn't as competive so I could get better ranking and maybe a better residency? confused?

or if I do get in a tough school (crossing fingers...like columbia, nyu or stanford) do I have a better chance of getting into a competitive program since I would be graduating from a top ten school?


thnx so much!!!

 

[EricCSU]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•Just wanted to say u have such a cool name, sounds like Kimberly Fox

•

It's because she is a fox.

Your faithful love slave/court concubine.

Eric

 

[TheThroat]

another follow up...so if I want to get into those competive programs...is it in my best advantage to go into a school that isn't as competive so I could get better ranking and maybe a better residency? confused?

or if I do get in a tough school (crossing fingers...like columbia, nyu or stanford) do I have a better chance of getting into a competitive program since I would be graduating from a top ten school?


If you are interested in a competitive residency, a higher ranked school will definitely be more beneficial than one you "think" you can rank higher at. Also, medical school may not be more competitive than undergrad, in that students are helpful to each other, but it DEFINITELY is more difficult. I would say that I averaged 4-5 times more studying in medical school than in college.

 

[Vader]

Moe,
"Nobody likes a kiss-ass!"
-Donkey from the movie "Shrek"

 

[MoeDaMan]

ehem Vader

Nobody was kissing ass sir?

of course, Kimberly never bothered to reply to my post I am so heartbroken...I will try to pick up the pieces as I go along, but I don't know if I can....snif snif

 

[Vader]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•ehem Vader

Nobody was kissing ass sir?

of course, Kimberly never bothered to reply to my post I am so heartbroken...I will try to pick up the pieces as I go along, but I don't know if I can....snif snif

•

Heh heh heh... that's because she doesn't moderate the "allopathic" forum. Try "Rotations and Residencies" and see if she replies.

 

[MoeDaMan]

aaaah no wonder...

naaah, it's ok, I just wanted to get my question answered and since she belonged to the surgery department I thought maybe she could help...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Sorry I missed your post - it wasn't until a friend alerted me via email that there was a post about me (although she neglected to mention WHICH forum, so I had to search).

At any rate, I haven't time now to answer your question, but it appears to have been dealt with by our oh so knowledgeable SDN Users. However, I will stop by later tonight and see what I can contribute if I have time (pager willing)!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•Just wanted to say u have such a cool name, sounds like Kimberly Fox

anyway, important question....

how long does it take to become a:

1) Orthopedic surgeon, and how competitive is it? how can you become one? etc etc
2) plastic surgeon same questions
3) Neurosurgeon


Also, how do u break bad news to relatives....epsecially if god forbid a patient dies and one is responsible for his/her death (not necessarily through incompetence but rather difficulty of surgery)

do u give an optimistic prognosis before surgery even if u know the patient might not make it through the surgery? or are u cold and just blurt out the facts.....40% chance of recovery, 20% etc etc....thanks•

I believe the first 3 questions have been answered although the Plastics & Reconstructive Surgery could be expanded upon. Currently there are 2 tracks for training in PRS: the traditional Independent Model and the newer, Integrated Model.

The Independent model requires at least 3 years of General Surgery training before embarking upon at least 2 years of advanced PCR training. These programs fill through the SF Match (http://www.sfmatch.org).

The Integrated is the new kid on the block, with approximately 25 programs matching students during their 4th year of medical school to a 5-6 year program. Typically the first 3 years are spent doing mostly Gen Surg, with varying amounts of Plastics, ENT and other electives of interest before moving onto solid PRS during the final 2-3 years. These are extremely competitive, but there have been some problems of late. If I am to believe PDs with whom I've spoken some of the concerns (ie, some programs have rescinded their Integrated tracks) deal with the 4th year candidates being untried with regard to surgical aptitude and "eye" - a quality especially important in a Plastic Surgeon and one much more easily assessed after 3 years of Surgical training (rather than a few months during medical school). Look for more of these programs to have trouble, IMHO.

Bad news: I am NOT a fan of hiding the truth or sugar coating it. I will not be blunt and cruel but I honestly believe patients want to and deserve to hear the truth. Families will tell you there is much more comfort in knowing the truth and what to expect than to be kept in the dark or be lied to. I'd say that a fair bit of my beeper calls have to do with families wanting more information - while it may be tempting to avoid uncomfortable issues or unpleasant patients/families you save yourself, the nursing staff and the familes a whole lotta grief by explaining things multiple times, by being honest but sympathetic and by encouraging them to ask questions.

Everyone develops their own style - some never grow accustomed to giving bad news. Most medical schools have lectures on "breaking bad news" which will give you the basics.

Hope this helps.

 

[MoeDaMan]

WOW thanks so much Kimberly...

I really appreciate it...especially wiht ur busy schedule and everything....

Ehem...on a side note.....assuming I got to penn state.....ehem...u know anybody I can kind of rub shoulders with (especially with the ortho department)

I know a very bright, enthusiastic, social guy ehem....I think his name is moe

of course, never too late to think about the future hehehehehehhe

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•WOW thanks so much Kimberly...

I really appreciate it...especially wiht ur busy schedule and everything....

Ehem...on a side note.....assuming I got to penn state.....ehem...u know anybody I can kind of rub shoulders with (especially with the ortho department)

I know a very bright, enthusiastic, social guy ehem....I think his name is moe

of course, never too late to think about the future hehehehehehhe•

Well I haven't been here too long yet, but have met some of the Ortho residents. Maybe we can work something out!

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'll move this over to Rotations and Residencies Forum as it seems more appropriate there.