Just checking to see if anybody cares about off-duty marijuana use anymore

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

1.) Honestly just curious to see what premeds (or physicians) in 2017 think about it

2.) When it is legal will physicians probably or probably not be aloud (by licensing boards) to smoke or ingest marijuana off duty?

3.) Do non-employee physicians (has admitting privileges at the hospital) get drug tested? I can probably assume employee physicians do.

4.) Does this ever come up in interviews?

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[Tenk]

Hospitals care. The end.

 

[DocFarnsworth]

Just ask ole boy Jeff sessions


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[Kgizzle]

I don't...but your patients, your future employers and the state do care. So no doobies for you young sir/madam

 

[jqueb29]

As absolutely stupid as it may be, doctors will be the very last group of people to get the right to use it, if ever. It'll be at least a solid 20+ years until doctors at hospitals can use it off duty. I have no desire to use it myself, but as a libertarian and someone who believes in evidence-based decision making, it is really ridiculous to outlaw a victimless act that is not proven to cause any real harm. Certainly physicians might abuse it and compromise patient care, but the ones who are likely to do that are the same ones who are going to compromise patient care anyway, whether by abusing legal drugs such as alcohol or by abusing marijuana when it's still illegal. It's just a PR decision with no evidence.

 

[Frogger27]

Smoke all the trees you want until M1, then cut the habit

 

[Dr.Kat]

Smoke all the trees you want until M1, then cut the habit

ehhh maybe not. I think school's drug test students before they begin!

and who cares...just drink like the rest of us!

 

[Vrachika]

While I support legalization, I would also be against physician use, at least until we have a better way of defining intoxication and length since use. While someone who uses a little MJ on friday night then goes into work on Monday morning is good to go, I don't feel the same about someone who used the night before then comes in to do surgery at 6am the next morning. Chronic users also typically struggle with motivational and memory issues, which would be an issue for someone at any level of the game (including M1), though at that point they would be mainly hurting themselves.

Occasionally use during the first two years of medical school is probably fine (though you CAN get drug tested during medical school, so while it might be fine, is it a good idea? Probably not.) Once you're an attending (or resident, for that matter) I have always assumed that it is a huge no no.

Hospitals drug test all the time. Most employees of a hospital, even non-clinical ones, are typically drug tested. If you have ANY access to patient rooms, records, etc, you will be drug tested. I know this because my husband is a non-clinical employee (works in administration) and he got drug tested when hired (though I am not sure if he has been tested since, but I could ask)

Just don't do it.

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

2 people most will never want using: doctors and pilots. That's unlikely to change any time soon.

 

[raf1ki]

Drugs are bad. I'm sick of the libertarian political trend to get the population on mind altering substances.

 

[jqueb29]

Drugs are bad. I'm sick of the libertarian political trend to get the population on mind altering substances.

1. In what way does it directly affect you negatively? This is what should determine whether anything is legal or not. No harm to others = no need to be illegal.
2. How does supporting something being legal = trying to get everybody to do it? I support it being legal, but heck I don't even want to use it myself, let alone have the whole population doing it. But I don't want the whole population being alcoholic, or smoking cigarettes, or on a diet high in saturated fat either, yet I certainly don't think those should be outlawed either. It's just something that shouldn't be illegal and is a massive waste of taxpayer money to punish people for it. You are not the whole world's dad.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

1. In what way does it directly affect you negatively? This is what should determine whether anything is legal or not. No harm to others = no need to be illegal.

I'm at work so I'll have to do it later, but there are some recent studies (and a few older ones) showing decreased cognitive abilities and impaired memory that persists after marijuana use. You can look on pubmed or I can post them for you later.

That said, cigarettes and alcohol are horrible for you too, but they're legal. Personally, I voted in CA to legalize it even though I think it's stupid and would never smoke it myself.

2. How does supporting something being legal = trying to get everybody to do it? I support it being legal, but heck I don't even want to use it myself, let alone have the whole population doing it. But I don't want the whole population being alcoholic, or smoking cigarettes, or on a diet high in saturated fat either, yet I certainly don't think those should be outlawed either. It's just something that shouldn't be illegal and is a massive waste of taxpayer money to punish people for it. You are not the whole world's dad.

Agreed.

 

[jqueb29]

I'm at work so I'll have to do it later, but there are some recent studies (and a few older ones) showing decreased cognitive abilities and impaired memory that persists after marijuana use. You can look on pubmed or I can post them for you later.

Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly don't consider it a completely benign substance, which is why I have no desire to use it myself. I don't consider the harms to be major, but there is definitely evidence of stuff like you mentioned. What I was saying is that someone else's usage/legality in general does not cause a direct harm to someone else.

 

[Mclovin0351]

legalize it and tax the hell out of it. Sure some users might have some mild cognitive deficits but that's a small price to pay for the end of the "war on drugs"

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly don't consider it a completely benign substance, which is why I have no desire to use it myself. I don't consider the harms to be major, but there is definitely evidence of stuff like you mentioned. What I was saying is that someone else's usage/legality in general does not cause a direct harm to someone else.

Yeah. I still don't want my physician smoking MJ with those possible side effects. If I found out my doctor smoked weed, I would find a new doctor.

 

[ortnakas]

I'm pro-legalization, but also pro-drug-testing. Drink alcohol or get high on your own time (responsibly, don't drive), but you shouldn't be making medical decisions for patients while even potentially intoxicated with altered mental status. Hospitals and other employers have a right to care about this.

 

[deleted820760]

Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly don't consider it a completely benign substance, which is why I have no desire to use it myself. I don't consider the harms to be major, but there is definitely evidence of stuff like you mentioned. What I was saying is that someone else's usage/legality in general does not cause a direct harm to someone else.

Yes, and alcohol and cigarettes are legal even though their use does cause harm to others. I honestly think if we are concerned about harm to others, alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal and marijuana should be legal. I still don't understand how marijuana is a schedule I controlled substance but cocaine is a schedule II. Anybody know why?

 

[Mad Jack]

ehhh maybe not. I think school's drug test students before they begin!

and who cares...just drink like the rest of us!

I know plenty of people that went to various schools that were all about blazing it until M3. Most schools don't drug test, but some clinical sites do.

Never really got the appeal of the stuff myself, just makes me paranoid as all hell when I was younger. Just hits everyone's receptors differently I guess, but for me it was the opposite of a good time.

 

[freak7]

legalize it and tax the hell out of it. Sure some users might have some mild cognitive deficits but that's a small price to pay for the end of the "war on drugs"

I don't think that's what this thread is about.

 

[mw18]

2.) When it is legal will physicians probably or probably not be aloud (by licensing boards) to smoke or ingest marijuana off duty?

A Freudian typo

 

[jqueb29]

I'm pro-legalization, but also pro-drug-testing. Drink alcohol or get high on your own time (responsibly, don't drive), but you shouldn't be making medical decisions for patients while even potentially intoxicated with altered mental status. Hospitals and other employers have a right to care about this.

I fully agree, nobody intoxicated has any business being involved in patient care while intoxicated. The problem with current testing for marijuana is that a positive test can occur looong after a person was intoxicated. Someone who tries to perform patient care while intoxicated deserves the whole book thrown at them, but someone who was intoxicated a week ago shouldn't be penalized for whatever they want to do with their own time.

 

[yungspleen]

Had an IA because of this. It came up in most of my interviews but they didn't really seem to care. One dean of admissions told us his daughter (or niece?) uses it

 

[787593]

1.) Honestly just curious to see what premeds (or physicians) in 2017 think about it

2.) When it is legal will physicians probably or probably not be aloud (by licensing boards) to smoke or ingest marijuana off duty?

3.) Do non-employee physicians (has admitting privileges at the hospital) get drug tested? I can probably assume employee physicians do.

4.) Does this ever come up in interviews?

Allowed.
Bruh....

 

[787593]

Drugs are bad. I'm sick of the libertarian political trend to get the population on mind altering substances.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone but this came to mind when I read your comment.

 

[787593]

A Freudian typo

Guess I was late to the grammar nazi olympics

 

[Dr. Stalker]

1.) Honestly just curious to see what premeds (or physicians) in 2017 think about it

2.) When it is legal will physicians probably or probably not be aloud (by licensing boards) to smoke or ingest marijuana off duty?

3.) Do non-employee physicians (has admitting privileges at the hospital) get drug tested? I can probably assume employee physicians do.

4.) Does this ever come up in interviews?

"I'm not asking for me, I'm asking for my friend"

 

[mw18]

Guess I was late to the grammar nazi olympics

it's a joke because marijuana is called "loud"....

Edit: nm. I thought you were OP and were upset, but I didn't care about the grammar, just thought the loud part was kinda funny.

 

[machete fred]

Reminder that virtually every argument against legalizing marijuana can be used against alcohol as well

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

"I'm not asking for me, I'm asking for my friend"

I'm asking for me.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Reminder that virtually every arguament against legalizing marijuana can be used against alcohol as well

I think if alcohol is legal, marijuana should be, but I don't partake in either.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

From what my brother tells me, drug tests are not actually testing for THC in your system, but for the metabolites which remain in your fat for weeks and your hair for months. When it's legalized I think the relevant question should be is THC in your bloodstream right now?

I don't smoke or drink very often, but when I do, personally I feel much worse in the morning after a night of drinking.

 

[787593]

it's a joke because marijuana is called "loud"....

Edit: nm. I thought you were OP and were upset, but I didn't care about the grammar, just thought the loud part was kinda funny.

Hahaha I am unfamiliar with that slang and I'm a grammar nazi until the end of days...

 

[787593]

Reminder that virtually every arguament against legalizing marijuana can be used against alcohol as well

So... you're saying people need better arguaments?

 

[freak7]

but for the metabolites which remain in your fat for weeks.

In chronic users, the metabolites (THC-COOH) can remain in your system adipose tissue for up to 60 days and will be detectable via urine

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

So, do non-employee physicians get drug tested? For example, a urologist that owns a private practice but has admitting privileges at a local hospital - does the local hospital drug screen "third-party" surgeons and other specialists. I ask because I have heard nurses complaining about how hospital policies don't apply to certain doctors.

 

[machete fred]

So... you're saying people need better arguaments?

Bruh

 

[SwordOfTheMorning]

A lot of hospitals now have no nicotine policies, as well, for all employees. So even if weed becomes legal at the federal level, I don't see hospitals letting up any time soon. Their argument is that the hospital and its employees are supposed to emulate healthy behaviors yada, yada. I think it's ridiculous to force these restrictions on your employees, regardless.

 

[libertyyne]

A lot of hospitals now have no nicotine policies, as well, for all employees. So even if weed becomes legal at the federal level, I don't see hospitals letting up any time soon. Their argument is that the hospital and its employees are supposed to emulate healthy behaviors yada, yada. I think it's ridiculous to force these restrictions on your employees, regardless.

I have worked in many hospitals and all of them were non nicotine campuses . But people/ employees can still smoke in their cars. Nicotine was never tested for . They do charge you extra on your health insurance if you are a self claimed smoker .

 

[hamburger55]

Just wanted to chime in here to say that I received a marijuana possession violation right before matriculating to med school (charge dropped). I disclosed it to my school, was honest about. They were very supportive and I was fine. Learned my lesson. Everyone (school admin, medical board lawyers) I talked to said it won't be an issue for licensure.

 

[BeddingfieldMD]

I am sure there are physicians (trainees and practicing) who use marijuana off-duty to varying degrees. And I know of some who have lost hospital privileges and been suspended/fired for such things.

But the short answer is it still matters and can seriously injure your career. Whether you agree or not, marijuana is still a Schedule 1 drug per the DEA. It's on the same level as meth, heroin, and LSD. Since most physicians who prescribe narcotics need a DEA license, violating federal drug laws is a bad idea--even if you live in a state that has liberalized marijuana rules.

Finally, maintaining board certification and licensure often requires signing documents on a regular basis indicating that you do not use illegal drugs, abuse alcohol, etc. You would be jeopardizing any of these requirements to practice by violating federal drug laws.

So yeah, I'd say if using pot is a big part of your life, becoming a physician may not be the best career fit for you. At least not as long as marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug.


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[BeddingfieldMD]

Just wanted to chime in here to say that I received a marijuana possession violation right before matriculating to med school (charge dropped). I disclosed it to my school, was honest about. They were very supportive and I was fine. Learned my lesson. Everyone (school admin, medical board lawyers) I talked to said it won't be an issue for licensure.

I could see that from many med schools. I guarantee you most hospital administrators would not be so forgiving. They are generally very risk averse and will dismiss or revoke privileges of a physician convicted of a drug charge in a heartbeat.


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[hamburger55]

I could see that from many med schools. I guarantee you most hospital administrators would not be so forgiving. They are generally very risk averse and will dismiss or revoke privileges of a physician convicted of a drug charge in a heartbeat.


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I totally agree. There is a difference between one blip before your medical career and either a history of issues or an issue during med school/residency and beyond. I would never dream of using drugs as a physician. I just wanted to point out my situation involving a dismissal of a violation (not a even misdemeanor). My school was very upfront with me, if they thought this would hinder my career, I wouldn't be in school anymore.

 

[787593]

Bruh

 

[NotASerialKiller]

Come to Canada. No drug tests, you can choose to do whatever what you want. Maybe one day freedom will come to America, but for now you have to head north.

 

[raf1ki]

Reminder that virtually every argument against legalizing marijuana can be used against alcohol as well

Alcohol has been used since the dawn of time, and thus, the effects are well known and documented. The status of marijuana research is still somewhere between that it cures cancer and it causes schizophrenia.

 

[raf1ki]

1. In what way does it directly affect you negatively? This is what should determine whether anything is legal or not. No harm to others = no need to be illegal.
2. How does supporting something being legal = trying to get everybody to do it? I support it being legal, but heck I don't even want to use it myself, let alone have the whole population doing it. But I don't want the whole population being alcoholic, or smoking cigarettes, or on a diet high in saturated fat either, yet I certainly don't think those should be outlawed either. It's just something that shouldn't be illegal and is a massive waste of taxpayer money to punish people for it. You are not the whole world's dad.

It's a massive waste of taxpayer money to take care of lazy bums who smoke marijuana and can't find jobs. How does meth use by others affect me negatively? Drugs are associated with crime (other than the crime of using/selling drugs), and mind-altering substances are dangerous to the individuals that use them. There is an idolizing culture towards marijuana use that ignores any potential harmful effects (and I'm not talking about just minor cognitive impacts, there are serious mental illness associated with marijuana.) Why should a society want to condone any mind-altering substances? Brave New World? The effects of marijuana use are not well studied. 50 years is a drop in an hourglass, and it has been studied under proper conditions for what, about 5 years? Alcohol has been documented and studied since the dawn of time. Alcohol abuse is a detriment to society but is too ingrained to human life to be punished. I drink but that doesn't mean I think it's good for me. I have probably smoked more marijuana that anyone in this thread, period. Yes, it is authoritarian as opposed to libertarian to support criminalization of drug use. I don't care. Drugs are a detriment to productivity healthy relationships.

 

[freak7]

Alcohol has been used since the dawn of time,

Dang... No wonder they called it the Big Bang.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

It's a massive waste of taxpayer money to take care of lazy bums who smoke marijuana and can't find jobs. How does meth use by others affect me negatively? Drugs are associated with crime (other than the crime of using/selling drugs), and mind-altering substances are dangerous to the individuals that use them. There is an idolizing culture towards marijuana use that ignores any potential harmful effects (and I'm not talking about just minor cognitive impacts, there are serious mental illness associated with marijuana.) Why should a society want to condone any mind-altering substances? Brave New World? The effects of marijuana use are not well studied. 50 years is a drop in an hourglass, and it has been studied under proper conditions for what, about 5 years? Alcohol has been documented and studied since the dawn of time. Alcohol abuse is a detriment to society but is too ingrained to human life to be punished. I drink but that doesn't mean I think it's good for me. I have probably smoked more marijuana that anyone in this thread, period. Yes, it is authoritarian as opposed to libertarian to support criminalization of drug use. I don't care. Drugs are a detriment to productivity healthy relationships.

The main reason drugs/the sale of drugs are surrounded by crime is because it is illegal. Like during alcohol prohibition. You make it illegal and a usually violent, unregulated underground industry surrounds it. I also don't think you can so broadly say "drugs are....." because it really depends on the drugs. Non-addictive drugs, with a nonexistent fatality like marijuana and LSD (real LSD) shouldn't be placed in the same category as cocaine, meth, heroin, and molly. Methylene blue is a drug and it just makes me think a little more clearly.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I worked at the Cleveland Clinic, and they do test for nicotine in addition to the campuses being smoke-free. Lots of my fellow pre-meds purposely avoided research opportunities there because they didn't want to quit smoking.

For those kinds of opportunities I would give up all my vices in a heartbeat, forever.

 

[cactusman]

But the short answer is it still matters and can seriously injure your career. Whether you agree or not, marijuana is still a Schedule 1 drug per the DEA. It's on the same level as meth, heroin, and LSD.

Methamphetamine is Schedule II and still approved to treat ADHD, although it is rarely prescribed.