Job offer for private practice

[Shnurek]

You guys really don't get it and it's clear that we have a bunch of future Walmart vest wearers here.

I never seriously expected anyone to take me up on the offer, though it DOES stand. I actually expected these responses.

Instead of looking at this situation like "wow....this person is offering me the use of an established practice with well trained staff and with established REVENUE GENERATING SYSTEMS where I can come in straight out of school REGARDLESS OF MY DEBT LEVEL AND WITH NO INVESTMENT OF CAPITAL and not have to pay rent, not have to pay staff, not have to pay utilities, or marketing costs, or equipment costs or ANYTHING and have near unlimited earning potential....."

you look at like "I'd rather be guaranteed $55 an hour even if I see zero patients."

Respectfully, you guys are a bunch of God damned idiots.

I agree, most people on these forums and in optometry schools in general are either losers or are too pussi to do anything real with their degrees. A lot of the girls just want to work around 3 days a week. I'd say half the guys at my school are losers and about 1/5 of the class in general has some kind of anti-social ticks. I don't even get why admissions committees admit these kind of people. I mean who cares if you have a 3.9 GPA if you are ugly and cannot communicate with future patients effectively.

That's why I shadowed some 40 year old guy at the VA. I asked him why don't you have your own practice? All he said was that he thinks its "too much work" and that I should apply for DO school... More losers = better for people like KHE and I (hopefully in the future) that get stuff done.

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[KHE]

KHE said the following (SDN Interview):

Are you satisfied with your income?

Yes, more than satisfied, but it took becoming a practice 
owner to  achieve that. Working for someone else almost 
invariably left me less than satisfied with my income.

Given this and KHE's offer, the new associate would be working for KHE, which would invariably leave the associate with a less than desirable income. There will be days where you see zero patients, and there will be days where you will see 10 patients. As such, in the end, the pay would average out to $50/hr, not $132/hr.

If the ultimate goal is to be a practice owner, and for many it is not, then KHE's offer is not that bad, in the grand scheme of things. Of course, you would have to work hard and think outside of the box as someone just said.

Alternatively, however, the new grad could purchase an established practice right out of college, or maybe after working corporate for 1-2 years.

The latter scenario is a faster, more lucrative and less troublesome way of becoming an owner. Of course, there aren't that many established practices looking to sell, so that might be the only problem.

But that's the exact reason WHY I made that offer the way I did it! So that a new graduate could have almost all the benefits of ownership without the hassles and fear of a cold start up! You would not really be working for me in the classic sense. If you see zero patients, I'm not going to "fire" you. I would not say "you must work these days and these hours." You can set your own schedule. Come whenever you want!

You would essentially be working for yourself on a 100% commission basis, that commission being 22%. (Interesting how no one has tried to negotiate that number, or any other facet of the offer.)

Why would you think the pay would average out to $50 an hour? If it does, then it would be ENTIRELY YOUR FAULT, not mine. If you see zero patients in a day, that is your fault!

If you see one day with zero patients and another with 10, that's 5 patients a day. That's MORE than what original layout showed! You would in that scenario make MORE than the $132 per hour if you schedule them close enough together AND you would have the REST OF THE DAY FREE!

If you see 10 patients a day, if you can get them all scheduled in a morning, you could make over $800 JUST FOR THE MORNING.

 

[mjl]

But that's the exact reason WHY I made that offer the way I did it! So that a new graduate could have almost all the benefits of ownership without the hassles and fear of a cold start up! You would not really be working for me in the classic sense. If you see zero patients, I'm not going to "fire" you. I would not say "you must work these days and these hours." You can set your own schedule. Come whenever you want!

You would essentially be working for yourself on a 100% commission basis, that commission being 22%. (Interesting how no one has tried to negotiate that number, or any other facet of the offer.)

Why would you think the pay would average out to $50 an hour? If it does, then it would be ENTIRELY YOUR FAULT, not mine. If you see zero patients in a day, that is your fault!

If you see one day with zero patients and another with 10, that's 5 patients a day. That's MORE than what original layout showed! You would in that scenario make MORE than the $132 per hour if you schedule them close enough together AND you would have the REST OF THE DAY FREE!

If you see 10 patients a day, if you can get them all scheduled in a morning, you could make over $800 JUST FOR THE MORNING.

Offer this again in 4-5 years and im your man!

 

[q1we3]

KHE, would you be willing to take some risk? How about you guarantee a base salary during the first few months as the OD figures things out on how to generate patient volume. That is a fixed income regardless of number of patients seen. Again this is only temporary, if things take off and there is potential for more, then OD goes full commission base where OD makes money off number of patients seen.
In order help you feel better the OD pays for this initial financial security by starting at a slightly lower cut then moving to 22% or whatever the number may be. What do you think?

 

[east]

KHE is taking risk, he would have to hire you as an employee. Legally you can not be an independent contractor (point of fact almost every classified IC OD is incorrectly and therefore illegally hired as an IC when almost all of these relationships require employee status) this is a large risk simply due to the tax implications.

 

[KHE]

KHE, would you be willing to take some risk? How about you guarantee a base salary during the first few months as the OD figures things out on how to generate patient volume. That is a fixed income regardless of number of patients seen. Again this is only temporary, if things take off and there is potential for more, then OD goes full commission base where OD makes money off number of patients seen.
In order help you feel better the OD pays for this initial financial security by starting at a slightly lower cut then moving to 22% or whatever the number may be. What do you think?

Make an offer.

 

[optom123]

Make an offer.

How about you guarantee $400/day to the associate? This assumes that you want another associate because you are too busy (booked until January).

If you just want another associate to help grow the practice, then your original offer is the only fair offer as long as their is a partnership/buy-in agreement. I mean, I think that is fair for both parties. The associate, is ultimately growing his own practice since their is already a partnership/buy-in agreement, however, the owner would profit initially during the first couple of years of practice.

On the other hand, this guarantee pay would pose little risk for the associate, and more of a risk on you, since you are effectively guaranteeing the associate pay, even if they decide to take a few days "off". As such, how about $200/day guarantee + % of gross revenue over $2000. This could potentially motivate the associate to get new patients, because if he doesn't than he won't be making that much.


If you don't include some sort of partnership/buy-in agreement, then their are no long term benefits for the associate, which is what the associate was seeking in private practice. If this is the case, working at corporate might be a better option. Either that, or purchasing an established practice outright.

 

[Eyes Only]

If you don't include some sort of partnership/buy-in agreement, then their are no long term benefits for the associate, which is what the associate was seeking in private practice. If this is the case, working at corporate might be a better option. Either that, or purchasing an established practice outright.

Most ODs in commercial practice have a 30 day lease effectively since there is usually a 30 day out by the lessor. Is this your idea of a less risky venture than being responsible for bringing in patients?

Do you really think anyone will pay you $100 grand a year to see their excess patients?

 

[itek2OD]

bump

 

[SilhouetteSight]

KHE's offer is a near dream scenario and I would encourage all pre-optometry students to shadow more OD's in the field to get more information before considering optometry.

I have to agree with KHE and Jason K that we are baffled by the response from some of the pre-opts on this site.

 

[KHE]

How about you guarantee $400/day to the associate? This assumes that you want another associate because you are too busy (booked until January).

That's not why I want an associate, so offer declined.

If you just want another associate to help grow the practice, then your original offer is the only fair offer as long as their is a partnership/buy-in agreement. I mean, I think that is fair for both parties. The associate, is ultimately growing his own practice since their is already a partnership/buy-in agreement, however, the owner would profit initially during the first couple of years of practice.

AAAHHHHHHH.......a partnership offer. So what are the terms of your partnership offer? When should you be allowed to buy in?

On the other hand, this guarantee pay would pose little risk for the associate, and more of a risk on you, since you are effectively guaranteeing the associate pay, even if they decide to take a few days "off". As such, how about $200/day guarantee + % of gross revenue over $2000. This could potentially motivate the associate to get new patients, because if he doesn't than he won't be making that much.

That would be a possibility.

If you don't include some sort of partnership/buy-in agreement, then their are no long term benefits for the associate, which is what the associate was seeking in private practice. If this is the case, working at corporate might be a better option. Either that, or purchasing an established practice outright.

The long term benefit to the associate is the ability to make as much money as possible and just walk away from it.

But if you feel you want to be partners, ok.....we can talk about that. Under what circumstances would you want to be a partner?

 

[nicmc]

KHE's offer really is a dream. Those of you who don't, what do you think Optometry is like? It's a business. You have to grow a practice, and do the work to do so. Patient's are not just going to waltz in the door. The environment he is offering is really a very safe environment to try to grow your business- no rent, already have the staff, etc. If this was a few years from now, I would be all over this.

 

[optom123]

The long term benefit to the associate is the ability to make as much money as possible and just walk away from it.

But if you feel you want to be partners, ok.....we can talk about that. Under what circumstances would you want to be a partner?

I'd say 10 years would be fair, where the associate would now be a 50% partner. Expenses/profits would be split equally between the two partners.

If the long term benefit was just to make money, I would rather just work at different opticals/corporate. Here you are virtually guaranteed at least 5 patients/day without all the tedious work that would be needed to see 5 new patients at your practice. Also you get to keep 90%-100% of your exam fees. It doesn't sound too bad...5 patients @ $100/exam etc.

 

[optom123]

KHE's offer really is a dream. Those of you who don't, what do you think Optometry is like? It's a business. You have to grow a practice, and do the work to do so. Patient's are not just going to waltz in the door. The environment he is offering is really a very safe environment to try to grow your business- no rent, already have the staff, etc. If this was a few years from now, I would be all over this.

Right...and where will you be getting 5 new patients everyday?

Anybody who thinks KHEs deal is the best doesn't understand what it takes to get in new patients through the door, and have them spend hundreds on materials. Of course, I don't mean to imply that I know what it takes to see new patients

 

[Jason K]

Right...and where will you be getting 5 new patients everyday?

Anybody who thinks KHEs deal is the best doesn't understand what it takes to get in new patients through the door, and have them spend hundreds on materials. Of course, I don't mean to imply that I know what it takes to see new patients

Holy Christ - what are you people smoking? In what "good" optometry position will you NOT going to have to get patients to come in to see you? In what "good" optometry position are you NOT going to have to get patients to buy materials from you instead of 1800Contacts or some other online garbage? Do you think you won't have to sell materials in a corporate position? Really? Are you aware that when you don't sell "enough" to your patients, the rest of you week can vanish like a fart in the wind? I'll tell you where you can do away with any need to recruit patients, though; Sterling Ploptical, Walshart, America's Worst, Sam's, and Lenscrappers. Do you just want to work in some place where patients are supplied to you with now effort? Does anyone one here want MY job? For those of you who think you can do better than 22% of gross revenue with no overhead cost whatsoever, where - where do you think you can do better in optometry? For those of you who think you'll just take the corporate track, I'll let you in on a little secret - IT SUCKS @SS! And not just a small one, I'm talking a big, Oprah style, monster @ss, the kind that can only fit in XXXXXL sweatpants.

You guys are heading for "Jason K Syndrome" and you don't even seem to care. If there were offers like this all over the place, there would be nothing to complain about. I think OD programs should add courses in "Cash Register Science" and "How to Do Inventory While Refracting" because when you work corporate, you're going to be expected to do those things. Wake up, people - you're time is coming, and few of you even realize it. The SDN server should be shutting down with all the attempts to take this offer. Instead, you've got people saying "Uhhhhhh.....I don't know man, I'm going to have to get patients and everything......I can't be in a position in which I'm actually expected to bring in patients, right? Patients should just appear from thin air, that's the optometry I want. After all, I have an OD so patients should be provided for me."

You guys don't even realize what you don't know. SDN is going to have to expand its server capacity since there's going to be a large increase in the number of Jason Ks out there - very soon.

 

[optom123]

Holy Christ - what are you people smoking? Where are you NOT going to have to get patients to come in to see you? I'll tell you; Sterling Ploptical, Walshart, America's Worst, Sam's, and Lenscrappers. Do you just want to work in some place where patients are supplied to you with now effort? Does anyone one here want MY job? For those of you who think you can do better than 22% of gross revenue with no overhead cost, where - where do you think you can do better in optometry? For those of you who think you'll just take the corporate track, I'll let you in on a little secret - IT SUCKS @SS! This is what I've been saying all along. You guys are heading for "Jason K Syndrome" and you don't even seem to care. If there were offers like this all over the place, there would be nothing to complain about. I think OD programs should add courses in "Cash Register Operation" and "How to Do Inventory" because when you work corporate, you're going to be expected to do those things. Wake up, people - you're time is coming, and few of you even realize it. The SDN server should be shutting down with all the attempts to take this offer. I wonder which ones of you I"ll be interviewing for your awesome corporate jobs.

Simmer down JasonK. Nobody said it would be permanent.

Corporate optometry is more lucrative initially, and this would be the best route for a new grad. Or working as an IC at an optical/pp where patients are supplied to you. At least until they can start cold or buy a practice.

 

[KHE]

I'd say 10 years would be fair, where the associate would now be a 50% partner. Expenses/profits would be split equally between the two partners.

What if at the end of the ten years, you are not pulling in approximately 50% of the revnue or doing 50% of the work?

I'll make you a better deal.....you can buy into the practice when you consistently bring in approximately 50% of the revenue. If you can do that after three years, you can buy in.

If the long term benefit was just to make money, I would rather just work at different opticals/corporate. Here you are virtually guaranteed at least 5 patients/day without all the tedious work that would be needed to see 5 new patients at your practice. Also you get to keep 90%-100% of your exam fees. It doesn't sound too bad...5 patients @ $100/exam etc.

That statement says to me that you are not partnership or owner material and you would be much better off at Walmart.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

Simmer down JasonK. Nobody said it would be permanent.

Corporate optometry is more lucrative initially, and this would be the best route for a new grad. Or working as an IC at an optical/pp where patients are supplied to you. At least until they can start cold or buy a practice.

You say that oh so willingly. Unfortunately, once you're in a corporate setting its a sink hole. So hard to pull yourself away from the spiraling descent. Smh.

 

[Jason K]

Corporate optometry is more lucrative initially, and this would be the best route for a new grad. Or working as an IC at an optical/pp where patients are supplied to you. At least until they can start cold or buy a practice.

"At least until they can start cold or buy a practice????" Tell me, how do you suppose you'll be in a better position to start cold or buy a practice after working as an IC at Walfart or an employee at Sterling Ploptical? Do you think you'll be able to save up some giant cash store with your "huge" salary?? Maybe you could work for 2 years so you can make a 2% deposit on your loan Remember, with all those new ODs out there, salaries are sure to be dropping for new grads. Good luck with that.

You guys still don't get it - this is the best you'll ever come across......ever. If you think you can do better, you're in for a real treat. The fact that you guys are basically saying, "Well....I don't know, I think I'd rather work at a corporate mill for a while than actually be expected to have to go get my own patients...." is unbelievable. Reality is going to hit you guys like a sprinting Carnie Wilson in football gear.

 

[nicmc]

Right...and where will you be getting 5 new patients everyday?

Anybody who thinks KHEs deal is the best doesn't understand what it takes to get in new patients through the door, and have them spend hundreds on materials. Of course, I don't mean to imply that I know what it takes to see new patients

Why are you even Pre-Optometry? You do realize that you have to pull in new patients in ANY setting? So, if you don't know what it takes, then why are you criticizing the rest of us who see the benefit of KHE's arrangement? I am starting to understand why some of the O.D.s on here think that Pre-Optometry students today are idiots. There are new people becoming patients every year- whether they have developed glaucoma, diabetes, myopia, presbyopia, etc. I do not claim to know the exact numbers of new patients every year to each O.D. in America, but there are new patients in the system. The key is being able to get them to come see YOU, which is why KHE has repeatedly stated the need for a plan. If you think that getting 5 new patients is such a horribly impossible task, I suggest that you change career paths.

 

[optom123]

"At least until they can start cold or buy a practice????" Tell me, how do you suppose you'll be in a better position to start cold or buy a practice after working as an IC at Walfart or an employee at Sterling Ploptical? Do you think you'll be able to save up some giant cash store with your "huge" salary?? Maybe you could work for 2 years so you can make a 2% deposit on your loan Remember, with all those new ODs out there, salaries are sure to be dropping for new grads. Good luck with that.

You guys still don't get it - this is the best you'll ever come across......ever. If you think you can do better, you're in for a real treat. The fact that you guys are basically saying, "Well....I don't know, I think I'd rather work at a corporate mill for a while than actually be expected to have to go get my own patients...." is unbelievable. Reality is going to hit you guys like a sprinting Carnie Wilson in football gear.

Walfart, ha that's a new one.

KHE's deal is far from great. I talked to an OD a couple months ago, whom I was shadowing. They paid the associate 21%, but the associate would not have to get new patients on his own. Patients were already supplied as the practice was too busy. I would consider this a good deal. Oh, part-timers at this office get $400/day and their is no revenue sharing for them.

Also, I shadowed at an Optical which belongs to my friends father. The OD they had in the back was paid all of his professional fees, but was charged rent etc. But he was usually busy seeing 10-20 patients everyday. There was no need for him to go looking for patients to bring into the optical.

I have not yet shadowed at corporate, but I expect their pay to be just as good, if not better than most PPs due to their marketing power.

If we are strictly talking about money, the above examples are clearly better for a new grad, or someone who is interested in making money.

 

[Eyes Only]

I'd say 10 years would be fair, where the associate would now be a 50% partner. Expenses/profits would be split equally between the two partners.

If the long term benefit was just to make money, I would rather just work at different opticals/corporate. Here you are virtually guaranteed at least 5 patients/day without all the tedious work that would be needed to see 5 new patients at your practice. Also you get to keep 90%-100% of your exam fees. It doesn't sound too bad...5 patients @ $100/exam etc.

You'll never get $100 for a commercial eye exam, you'll be lucky to get $50. Are you getting free rent, how do you net 90-100%?

You really have no idea what this profession is all about or what is going on out in the real world.

 

[Jason K]

Walfart, ha that's a new one.

KHE's deal is far from great. I talked to an OD a couple months ago, whom I was shadowing. They paid the associate 21%, but the associate would not have to get new patients on his own. Patients were already supplied as the practice was too busy. I would consider this a good deal. Oh, part-timers at this office get $400/day and their is no revenue sharing for them.

Also, I shadowed at an Optical which belongs to my friends father. The OD they had in the back was paid all of his professional fees, but was charged rent etc. But he was usually busy seeing 10-20 patients everyday. There was no need for him to go looking for patients to bring into the optical.

I have not yet shadowed at corporate, but I expect their pay to be just as good, if not better than most PPs due to their marketing power.

If we are strictly talking about money, the above examples are clearly better for a new grad, or someone who is interested in making money.

You're going to end up in corporate and/or commercial for your career, just like I'm certain that most new ODs will. There probably are a few "go-getters" out there who will avoid the trap somehow, possibly by getting involved in a high-momentum practice like this one. If one of you were to take this offer and build yourself into an ownership position in the practice after expanding it sufficiently (assuming that was ever on the table for you), you might be one of those people. But apparently, optometry is in such good shape right now, you don't need a highly successful private practice to work in, you just need a corporate hell hole to spin dials and make the "big bucks." You're gonna to be me in about 10 years.

I"ll be out of optometry soon enough, but you can have my username "Jason K." I'll need someone to take over for me after my early retirement from this profession which is being transformed into something it was never intended to be

 

[Ben Chudner]

Given this and KHE's offer, the new associate would be working for KHE, which would invariably leave the associate with a less than desirable income. There will be days where you see zero patients, and there will be days where you will see 10 patients. As such, in the end, the pay would average out to $50/hr, not $132/hr.

It always fascinates me how someone can think they know more about your practice than you do. I'm not sure where you came up with this scientifically proven number of $50/hr, but I would tend to believe Ken when he states how many patients will be seen per hour. There are factors that no one seems to be taking into account, such as times when patients need to be seen but Ken is already booked. If there is another doctor available at the time they need to be seen, they will usually choose to be seen. I have never seen a doctor added to a successful practice fail to at least fill the schedule to 50% without any effort.

If the ultimate goal is to be a practice owner, and for many it is not, then KHE's offer is not that bad, in the grand scheme of things. Of course, you would have to work hard and think outside of the box as someone just said.

This is true for anyone that wants to be successful. Nothing will be handed to you. You will have to work hard in any scenario.

Alternatively, however, the new grad could purchase an established practice right out of college, or maybe after working corporate for 1-2 years.

The latter scenario is a faster, more lucrative and less troublesome way of becoming an owner. Of course, there aren't that many established practices looking to sell, so that might be the only problem.

This is very naive. Let's start with your admittedly false premise that a new grad could find a practice to purchase. Just how successful do you think a new grad with 1-2 years of corporate experience will be at owning a private practice? There are a lot of things to learn with respect to running a private practice, and there isn't a lot of room for making mistakes as you learn. What Ken is proposing is a no risk way to earn a decent living and learn how to successfully run a practice. Let Ken either make the mistakes or show you how to avoid them so that when you are ready to become an owner (either within his practice, or on your own), you will have a better chance at being successful.

 

[Wilkesu12]

I can only hope job offers even close to this one are around in 4 years...

 

[optom123]

It always fascinates me how someone can think they know more about your practice than you do. I'm not sure where you came up with this scientifically proven number of $50/hr, but I would tend to believe Ken when he states how many patients will be seen per hour. There are factors that no one seems to be taking into account, such as times when patients need to be seen but Ken is already booked. If there is another doctor available at the time they need to be seen, they will usually choose to be seen. I have never seen a doctor added to a successful practice fail to at least fill the schedule to 50% without any effort.
This is true for anyone that wants to be successful. Nothing will be handed to you. You will have to work hard in any scenario.
This is very naive. Let's start with your admittedly false premise that a new grad could find a practice to purchase. Just how successful do you think a new grad with 1-2 years of corporate experience will be at owning a private practice? There are a lot of things to learn with respect to running a private practice, and there isn't a lot of room for making mistakes as you learn. What Ken is proposing is a no risk way to earn a decent living and learn how to successfully run a practice. Let Ken either make the mistakes or show you how to avoid them so that when you are ready to become an owner (either within his practice, or on your own), you will have a better chance at being successful.

The $50/hr is the market rate for an OD. Well, except in california and other super-saturated areas.

The point is, there is a good chance of seeing 0 patients on a given day.

On average,working at corporate, then moving on to own a practice is still a better way of earning maximum income. Yes, there are risks associated with doing this, but with great risks come great rewards.

Personally, I would rather take a risk of purchasing a practice without experience, rather than working for someone else. That is unless there is a partnership agreement in place etc.

 

[Ben Chudner]

The $50/hr is the market rate for an OD. Well, except in california and other super-saturated areas.

If that's true (I have no idea), it would still be for a standard employee contract. Ken did not offer that, so I will point out again that you have no idea what the salary would average out to in this situation.

The point is, there is a good chance of seeing 0 patients on a given day.

Without ever seeing Ken's practice, you are not in the position to make this claim. Furthermore, as an optometry student, I doubt you have a full understanding of how an office really works. For example, when I was in private practice, I was booked solid about one week out. Since we pre-appointed a year in advance, after 1 week out the schedule was busy but there were spots that needed to be filled. Everyday however, we got calls from people that wanted to be seen either that day or within a week. Until I brought on my associate, those patients could not be seen and many of them found other places less busy. Once my associate was there, she would see them without having to do any of the work required to find them. I can assure you that there were no days that my associate saw zero patients. On top of that, many offices like mine have a cancellation list for patients that are willing to come in on an hour or two notice because they really want or need to be seen.

On average,working at corporate, then moving on to own a practice is still a better way of earning maximum income. Yes, there are risks associated with doing this, but with great risks come great rewards.

You forgot "with great power, comes great responsibility" If you are really an optometry student you have no idea if this is a better way of earning maximum income. I would argue over a career, this may actually cost you money. One other thing to think about, and I believe this is where new graduates get in trouble, is that people get used to the salary of working in corporate right out of school and buy new toys. It can be very hard in the first couple of years after buying a practice or starting cold. Many people find they are unwilling or unable to take the salary hit and decide to stay corporate. I'm not say that's a bad thing, nor am I saying everyone ends up this way.

Personally, I would rather take a risk of purchasing a practice without experience, rather than working for someone else. That is unless there is a partnership agreement in place etc.

This is probably the most naive statement I have heard in a long time. There is a couple of things about what you just said. First, take it from someone that watched an ophthalmologist with no experience buy a practice from a retiring doc. Within 3 years, the retiring doc had to come out of retirement to purchase the practice back because the new doc was on the verge of bankruptcy. Owning a practice takes more than being a great doctor and unless you have a business degree, your optometric education did not prepare you, nor will being in a corporate location. The best way to gain that experience is to join a successful practice and sponge every bit of information you can off the owner. This brings me to the second part of your statement. Very few docs are willing to have an partnership agreement in place before working with you. What you may get is an agreement to consider partnership after a certain period of time if both parties agree. No one wants to be locked into having to take on a partner that they may not be able to work with, or isn't very good. These are also less common now since there are many more graduates than job opportunities in private practice. If you won't take the job without an agreement, someone else will.

 

[optom123]

I appreciate your wisdom but I am still not convinced that working for someone else is the way to go if you want to earn the most income. Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie. (I always wanted to say this!)

Running a business is not rocket science as you make it out to be...there are headaches, but delegation/prep can take care of that. The story about the Omd going bankrupt is important, but I will never invest money in a downer practice.

There has to be an option for partnership, for me to work for someone. If that isn't offered, than I would have no future secuity.

You say several times that someone who is not a optometrist doesn't have a clue on how to run an optometry practice. What did you learn that has been so important for your success, that you would have not learned by working corporate? Are you suggesting that an optometry practice is not just like a regular small business?

If that's true (I have no idea), it would still be for a standard employee contract. Ken did not offer that, so I will point out again that you have no idea what the salary would average out to in this situation.Without ever seeing Ken's practice, you are not in the position to make this claim. Furthermore, as an optometry student, I doubt you have a full understanding of how an office really works. For example, when I was in private practice, I was booked solid about one week out. Since we pre-appointed a year in advance, after 1 week out the schedule was busy but there were spots that needed to be filled. Everyday however, we got calls from people that wanted to be seen either that day or within a week. Until I brought on my associate, those patients could not be seen and many of them found other places less busy. Once my associate was there, she would see them without having to do any of the work required to find them. I can assure you that there were no days that my associate saw zero patients. On top of that, many offices like mine have a cancellation list for patients that are willing to come in on an hour or two notice because they really want or need to be seen.You forgot "with great power, comes great responsibility" If you are really an optometry student you have no idea if this is a better way of earning maximum income. I would argue over a career, this may actually cost you money. One other thing to think about, and I believe this is where new graduates get in trouble, is that people get used to the salary of working in corporate right out of school and buy new toys. It can be very hard in the first couple of years after buying a practice or starting cold. Many people find they are unwilling or unable to take the salary hit and decide to stay corporate. I'm not say that's a bad thing, nor am I saying everyone ends up this way.This is probably the most naive statement I have heard in a long time. There is a couple of things about what you just said. First, take it from someone that watched an ophthalmologist with no experience buy a practice from a retiring doc. Within 3 years, the retiring doc had to come out of retirement to purchase the practice back because the new doc was on the verge of bankruptcy. Owning a practice takes more than being a great doctor and unless you have a business degree, your optometric education did not prepare you, nor will being in a corporate location. The best way to gain that experience is to join a successful practice and sponge every bit of information you can off the owner. This brings me to the second part of your statement. Very few docs are willing to have an partnership agreement in place before working with you. What you may get is an agreement to consider partnership after a certain period of time if both parties agree. No one wants to be locked into having to take on a partner that they may not be able to work with, or isn't very good. These are also less common now since there are many more graduates than job opportunities in private practice. If you won't take the job without an agreement, someone else will.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Running a business is not rocket science as you make it out to be...there are headaches, but delegation/prep can take care of that. The story about the Omd going bankrupt is important, but I will never invest money in a downer practice.

I ran my practice for 10 years before I sold it. How many years have you run a practice? The OMD bought a successful practice and drove it into the ground because he had no experience running a business. Within 2 years of the original owner returning, it was doing as well if not better than when he sold it the first time. A new owner has since bought the practice and it continues to do well.

There has to be an option for partnership, for me to work for someone. If that isn't offered, than I would have no future secuity.

You are correct, there would be no future security, but that's true for any employment including corporate. I'm not saying you shouldn't look for that kind of opportunity. I wish you luck in finding it.

You say several times that someone who is not a optometrist doesn't have a clue on how to run an optometry practice. What did you learn that has been so important for your success, that you would have not learned by working corporate? Are you suggesting that an optometry practice is not just like a regular small business?

Yes, I am suggesting that an optometry practice is not just like a regular small business. I don't believe the owner of the local coffee shop would be able to run an optometric office just because they've been successful running the coffee shop. I've worked corporate, so I know what it's like. Things like frame, lens, and contact lens inventory, staff, advertising, rent, utilities, equipment, etc are just a few of the issues that private practice OD's deal with that corporate OD's do not.

 

[KHE]

I appreciate your wisdom but I am still not convinced that working for someone else is the way to go if you want to earn the most income. Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie. (I always wanted to say this!)

Every optometric survey out there shows that working for yourself is the way to make the most money.

There has to be an option for partnership, for me to work for someone. If that isn't offered, than I would have no future secuity.

I have no problem offering partnership. What are you offering in exchange? What do you bring to the table besides being a "fine doc?"

You say several times that someone who is not a optometrist doesn't have a clue on how to run an optometry practice. What did you learn that has been so important for your success, that you would have not learned by working corporate? Are you suggesting that an optometry practice is not just like a regular small business?

Wow...that list is incredibly long. lol

 

[optom123]

Even if there is no security in corporate, the pay is much more attractive compared to PP. PP is only a better option than corporate if you are the owner or are a partner. I think this is a fact, if we are only talking about money.

Since KHE's offer did not include an optional partnership clause, than it isn't a great deal. However, if you were to give me the option than I would think the offer is good, provided that my income is not entirely dependent on how many patients I attract. As far as getting patients in through the door, I have a couple ideas, but I will never go out of my way to bring in a patient. Even if it was for my own practice...OD's provide a service to the public. It's up-to the public to realize that a service is available, and if an OD can make that more clear then that's good for their business. This is what I would do at most to bring in new patients.

What bothers me is that the same ODs who blame corporate optometry are the ones offering little pay to their associates, whilst taking home a multi six figure income. Not saying this is you, just a thought I had.

I ran my practice for 10 years before I sold it. How many years have you run a practice? The OMD bought a successful practice and drove it into the ground because he had no experience running a business. Within 2 years of the original owner returning, it was doing as well if not better than when he sold it the first time. A new owner has since bought the practice and it continues to do well.You are correct, there would be no future security, but that's true for any employment including corporate. I'm not saying you shouldn't look for that kind of opportunity. I wish you luck in finding it.Yes, I am suggesting that an optometry practice is not just like a regular small business. I don't believe the owner of the local coffee shop would be able to run an optometric office just because they've been successful running the coffee shop. I've worked corporate, so I know what it's like. Things like frame, lens, and contact lens inventory, staff, advertising, rent, utilities, equipment, etc are just a few of the issues that private practice OD's deal with that corporate OD's do not.

 

[KHE]

Since KHE's offer did not include an optional partnership clause, than it isn't a great deal.

If you read it again, you will see that I did in fact include an offer of partnership.....when you can generate an equivalent amount of revenue as me and my partner.

However, if you were to give me the option than I would think the offer is good, provided that my income is not entirely dependent on how many patients I attract. As far as getting patients in through the door, I have a couple ideas, but I will never go out of my way to bring in a patient. Even if it was for my own practice...OD's provide a service to the public. It's up-to the public to realize that a service is available, and if an OD can make that more clear then that's good for their business. This is what I would do at most to bring in new patients.

Based on that statement right there I would never in a million years offer you partnership or any sort of employment in my office and I can say with absolute certainty that if you were ever to own a practice or a business of ANY kind whatsoever, you will fail miserably.

What bothers me is that the same ODs who blame corporate optometry are the ones offering little pay to their associates, whilst taking home a multi six figure income. Not saying this is you, just a thought I had.

What associates have to understand is that their salary and income does not happen in a vacuum and if they feel that they don't want to go out of their way to bring in a patient then their chances of success in any private office whether it's optometry or ophthalmology is zero. The blue vest of Walmart is waiting for them. Enjoy your career next to the 50 pound bags of dog food.

 

[optom123]

If you read it again, you will see that I did in fact include an offer of partnership.....when you can generate an equivalent amount of revenue as me and my partner.



Based on that statement right there I would never in a million years offer you partnership or any sort of employment in my office and I can say with absolute certainty that if you were ever to own a practice or a business of ANY kind whatsoever, you will fail miserably.



What associates have to understand is that their salary and income does not happen in a vacuum and if they feel that they don't want to go out of their way to bring in a patient then their chances of success in any private office whether it's optometry or ophthalmology is zero. The blue vest of Walmart is waiting for them. Enjoy your career next to the 50 pound bags of dog food.

I would refuse that offer and instead just work for a guarantee as an IC at another PP, or more preferably at a corporate location. Too much work for no guarantee, IMO.

I plan to purchase a pp where patients are already coming in. I will be in debt, but the cash flow will already be there. Sure, I can work with local schools/businesses/nursing homes etc. once in a while to attract new patients, but I will never make this a priority, because the practice is already established. I really have no plans of working for someone, without any benefits/guarantees.

With the recent influx of female Optometry graduates, and the fact that only OD's\OMD's can buy optometric practices, I feel the chances of buying a good practice are greater than ever. But in the rare case where I am unable to buy a PP, I will work for corporate. Sure I may work in a non-profesinonal environment, but at least I won't be misreable like SDN's optometry poster boy, Jasonk!

Also, just wanted to add that I completely understand how corporate optometry works and I am fine with it. I have no problem with working for corporate, as an OD. I will be using their marketing to supplement my income, which is a good deal for me.

 

[Eyes Only]

I would refuse that offer and instead just work for a guarantee as an IC at another PP, or more preferably at a corporate location. Too much work for no guarantee, IMO.

I plan to purchase a pp where patients are already coming in. I will be in debt, but the cash flow will already be there. Sure, I can work with local schools/businesses/nursing homes etc. once in a while to attract new patients, but I will never make this a priority, because the practice is already established. I really have no plans of working for someone, without any benefits/guarantees.

With the recent influx of female Optometry graduates, and the fact that only OD's\OMD's can buy optometric practices, I feel the chances of buying a good practice are greater than ever. But in the rare case where I am unable to buy a PP, I will work for corporate. Sure I may work in a non-profesinonal environment, but at least I won't be misreable like SDN's optometry poster boy, Jasonk!

Also, just wanted to add that I completely understand how corporate optometry works and I am fine with it. I have no problem with working for corporate, as an OD. I will be using their marketing to supplement my income, which is a good deal for me.

Emily,

If you represent the average pre-optometry student, private practice is doomed.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I would refuse that offer and instead just work for a guarantee as an IC at another PP, or more preferably at a corporate location. Too much work for no guarantee, IMO.

I plan to purchase a pp where patients are already coming in. I will be in debt, but the cash flow will already be there. Sure, I can work with local schools/businesses/nursing homes etc. once in a while to attract new patients, but I will never make this a priority, because the practice is already established. I really have no plans of working for someone, without any benefits/guarantees.

With the recent influx of female Optometry graduates, and the fact that only OD's\OMD's can buy optometric practices, I feel the chances of buying a good practice are greater than ever. But in the rare case where I am unable to buy a PP, I will work for corporate. Sure I may work in a non-profesinonal environment, but at least I won't be misreable like SDN's optometry poster boy, Jasonk!

Also, just wanted to add that I completely understand how corporate optometry works and I am fine with it. I have no problem with working for corporate, as an OD. I will be using their marketing to supplement my income, which is a good deal for me.

If you believe that, you're an idiot.

You don't think that patients will leave in fairly large amounts when the doctor they know and like retires?

There was a 2 month period between when dad died and the new OD owner started. Despite the fact that we had a commitment from the new guy within 3 weeks s/p funeral, we probably had 4-5 patients per day asking for their records. In addition, several months later, I was taking my grandmother to that office (she didn't leave) and whereas dad usually had 2-3 people in the waiting room either dilating or just waiting, in the 90 minutes I was there I never saw another person even pass through that room.

Then again, I'm sure you know much better than I do what happens when you transition owners.

 

[optom123]

The seller will work part-time, if needed. I'm fine with loosing a couple of patients; remember I do intend to add my own twist to the practice which will generate patients. This scenario is different from your scenario, where the owner did not tell his patients that he was retiring etc.

However, this is a great point I shall consider, but lets not kid ourselves; OD's aren't urologists.

 

[Wilkesu12]

Optom123 you are really giving pre optometry students a bad name =( . Why do act like you are so knowledgable about life as an actual practicing, private practicing owning OD? You should be on here taking in all the advice you can...

 

[Hoosier911]

Optom123,

I think you need to research a little more about business operations and also the profession of Optometry. Your comments of never making an attempt at gaining new patients (that this is a service to the public and they should realize this..) worries me that you don't understand how this field operates. Most of an OD's income will come from refractions and fittings. Glasses and contacts are the roots of this profession (in terms of income) and always need to be considered when looking at establishing a functioning practice. In order to give your practice the best edge and to build a highly successful practice, like KHE's, it will likely be important to always be thinking outside the box. Patients will not simply be constantly walking up to you and looking for your service, YOU must get their attention. Marketing and incentives can play a huge role in attracting new patients and to differentiate yourself from other OD's.
Like it or not, Optometry has (and is steadily increasing) a business side to it. There are no longer the days of being entitled a cushy job in PP with a high income, you must go above and beyond to earn that. The market it competetive and tough, but if you always have a business thought process in that back of your mind, you can be highly successful in this field. I have worked in healthcare(although not yet in Optometry) for over 4 years and majored in a business field (while taking the pre-reqs) in order to give me an edge when I become an OD. I fully realize what the current market looks like and the future of Optometry, but quite frankly, thats what is exciting about this field. If you have innovative ideas, work hard, and constantly market yourself, things can be great. Optomety is not doomed, like JasonK thinks (I have worked with several people of his type in other fields. The profession is not what he expected, always looks for negatives, surrounds themselves with people of similar taste and opinion, and turns to these forums to gain support for others with the same opinion.)
All in all, the profession has enormous potential if you are willing to recognize that Optometry will come with both business and healthcare duties. While I am not yet out in the field, I have been in contact and trying to network with as many OD's as possible on current prospects. There are plenty of jobs out there if you dig and put in the work, and that will not change any time soon. Anyone that thinks otherwise is either 1. unwilling to relocate 2. Expects a job to be given to them, without little work or 3. Lacks the skill set required (such as communication and personal skills) or wanted by a PP OD or comercial practice.

Done rambling now, I just think the profession needs to defended by what I feel are TRUE answers.

 

[optom123]

Good post

I never said that I would never make an attempt at gaining new patients...however, I will never actively dedicate time into finding new patients every day or week etc, unless the competition shoots through roof. This is what KHE's offer entails, and is simply not worth it.

Anyways, I agree with you in all the points you have made, and I understand what Optometry entails and what it takes to be successful. This is one of the main reasons why I am pursuing the career.

I don't feel like I am entitled to a cushy job. But at the same time, new grads should be entitled to a decent job. If the od makes 200k a year, why not give the associate an extra 20k so that his earnings reach 6 figures? A happy associate will do much more for a practice than one who is not.

Optom123,

I think you need to research a little more about business operations and also the profession of Optometry. Your comments of never making an attempt at gaining new patients (that this is a service to the public and they should realize this..) worries me that you don't understand how this field operates. Most of an OD's income will come from refractions and fittings. Glasses and contacts are the roots of this profession (in terms of income) and always need to be considered when looking at establishing a functioning practice. In order to give your practice the best edge and to build a highly successful practice, like KHE's, it will likely be important to always be thinking outside the box. Patients will not simply be constantly walking up to you and looking for your service, YOU must get their attention. Marketing and incentives can play a huge role in attracting new patients and to differentiate yourself from other OD's.
Like it or not, Optometry has (and is steadily increasing) a business side to it. There are no longer the days of being entitled a cushy job in PP with a high income, you must go above and beyond to earn that. The market it competetive and tough, but if you always have a business thought process in that back of your mind, you can be highly successful in this field. I have worked in healthcare(although not yet in Optometry) for over 4 years and majored in a business field (while taking the pre-reqs) in order to give me an edge when I become an OD. I fully realize what the current market looks like and the future of Optometry, but quite frankly, thats what is exciting about this field. If you have innovative ideas, work hard, and constantly market yourself, things can be great. Optomety is not doomed, like JasonK thinks (I have worked with several people of his type in other fields. The profession is not what he expected, always looks for negatives, surrounds themselves with people of similar taste and opinion, and turns to these forums to gain support for others with the same opinion.)
All in all, the profession has enormous potential if you are willing to recognize that Optometry will come with both business and healthcare duties. While I am not yet out in the field, I have been in contact and trying to network with as many OD's as possible on current prospects. There are plenty of jobs out there if you dig and put in the work, and that will not change any time soon. Anyone that thinks otherwise is either 1. unwilling to relocate 2. Expects a job to be given to them, without little work or 3. Lacks the skill set required (such as communication and personal skills) or wanted by a PP OD or comercial practice.

Done rambling now, I just think the profession needs to defended by what I feel are TRUE answers.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Good post

I never said that I would never make an attempt at gaining new patients...however, I will never actively dedicate time into finding new patients every day or week etc, unless the competition shoots through roof. This is what KHE's offer entails, and is simply not worth it.

Anyways, I agree with you in all the points you have made, and I understand what Optometry entails and what it takes to be successful. This is one of the main reasons why I am pursuing the career.

I don't feel like I am entitled to a cushy job. But at the same time, new grads should be entitled to a decent job. If the od makes 200k a year, why not give the associate an extra 20k so that his earnings reach 6 figures? A happy associate will do much more for a practice than one who is not.

1) So as an prospective owner of a practice in the future, you will wait for the patients to come to you? (previous posters have also asked this). So my question to you really is how will you bring patients into your practice? Im pretty sure that "actively dedicating time to find new patients" is crucial.

2) Why should new grads be entitled to a decent job? Just because they spent all the money, studied hard for 4 years and got an OD? I doubt this means anything, I think new grads should have something to offer beyond an OD to get a "decent job"

3) KHE offered a new grad an opportunity that is more than decent in my opinion. If you have read things he has written on SDN over the years, its asking new grads what they have to offer. The requirement for his job is for a prospective OD to have the ability to bring in new patients and therefore generate income for the practice. If this is something you do not wish to do or even wish to learn, then obviously the position KHE wants to fill is not right for you. Im pretty sure whether someone takes his offer or not, he will go to sleep every night just fine.

4) I personally see this as a great experience for a new grad. I have no doubt that KHE would be a great mentor. Also, if i am understanding correctly, its not like he has you bind to some contract or is saying "i won't help you in any way, its all up to you." Im sure he will help you understand his practice, and how to utilize the tools he is offering for you to get patients. I think this would be a great experience for someone who wants to open up a private practice in the future. Also if you are doing a great job for his practice, i don't see why he wouldn't re-negociate the terms with you, after all, if you end up contributing significantly to his business why wouldn't he want to keep you around? I think this is what he means when he says he wants to "grow" his practice.

I also didn't really understand the last part of what you wrote. So you're saying if (assuming) KHE made 200k a year, and his associate made 80k...KHE should GIVE his associate 20k just to "help" him out? if so, then LOL.

 

[Jason K]

Optomety is not doomed, like JasonK thinks (I have worked with several people of his type in other fields. The profession is not what he expected, always looks for negatives, surrounds themselves with people of similar taste and opinion, and turns to these forums to gain support for others with the same opinion.)

"Surround myself with people of similar opinions? Where did ever claim to be actively surrounding myself with ODs who regret their decision to pursue optometry? They surround me - there's a difference. I know plenty of successful ODs - guess what - most of them are over 45, all of them are owners, and all of them own practices that could never be duplicated if started from scratch today. I know PLENTY of ODs, both young and old, who are getting pounded right now, and the poundings escalate as they get younger and younger. This is what you guys continue to miss - you don't understand that what you "see" right now with optometry's successful private practices is not going to be what you'll "get" when you're out of school. As I've said a million times, a very small number of you will find a way to slip through the cracks and land on something like KHEs lily pad. The rest, thousands upon thousands of bright-eyed ODs, will land on a pile of crap. There's too many of us out there - way too many. You guys will be the one's who get screwed the worst. But keep the faith, dude, if you want to think that somehow you'll avoid the plague that has infected the profession, have at it.

;11771167]Good post
I will never actively dedicate time into finding new patients every day or week etc, unless the competition shoots through roof. This is what KHE's offer entails, and is simply not worth it.

"Unless competition shoots through the roof?" Do you not understand that there are ODs on every street corner? Does it escape you that there's a very good chance that an OD is secretly hiding in your closet or under your bed because there's simply nowhere else for him to live due to competition that has "shot through the roof?"

Anyways, I agree with you in all the points you have made, and I understand what Optometry entails and what it takes to be successful.

This is the core of the problem. You think you understand what optometry entails and what it takes to be successful. Unfortunately for you and for the field of optometry, you don't. Your posts demonstrate that splendidly. You're another in a line of thousands who are awaiting the day in which they're fired out of the "New OD Cannon." You want to get into a practice that's already established and doesn't need any new patients? What???? What does that even mean? Do you honestly believe that there's some sea of private OD offices out there who are jammed to the hilt, refusing new patients? I think you might have confused optometry for well-established medical specialty offices. Good luck finding that office.

....why not give the associate an extra 20k so that his earnings reach 6 figures?

Why not? If you're going to call yourself someone who "understands the field of optometry," then you must understand supply and demand. If grads are available in grotesquely large numbers of excess, there is no incentive for anyone to "pay them an extra 20K so their earnings can reach 6 figures." Do you think people just like to give away 20 or 30K just to be nice.....just to help a sista out? If ODs were in demand, you might see financial incentives for associates being hired into private offices. That day will never come in the foreseeable future. You're dreaming, emily. You want optometry to fit into the little mold you have in your head. It doesn't. Your naive beliefs and those of many preops who share your misguided optimism will lead you down the path to an exciting career in commercial optometry.

Generally, you would expect to get paid well since as an Od you posses specialized skills, not because you spent so much money and time on a doctorate degree.

Wroooooooooooong! You get paid for specialized skills if, and only if, those skills are in demand. You just don't get it emily. An OD is about as difficult to find these days as a new attorney. Your expectations of optometry are drastically out of line with what you have coming to you. You're doomed, emily....you just don't realize it yet.

 

[optom123]

2) Why should new grads be entitled to a decent job? Just because they spent all the money, studied hard for 4 years and got an OD? I doubt this means anything, I think new grads should have something to offer beyond an OD to get a "decent job"

.

Corporate optometry says hi.
Opticals say hi too.

Generally, you would expect to get paid well since as an Od you posses specialized skills, not because you spent so much money and time on a doctorate degree.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Corporate optometry says hi.
Opticals say hi too.

Generally, you would expect to get paid well since as an Od you posses specialized skills, not because you spent so much money and time on a doctorate degree.

I hope you are working on responses to the other questions? i am definitely curious to hear your answers.

"You expect to get paid well because you possess specialized skills"....ok...so what? doesn't everyone who graduates with an OD have the "same" skill set?
In other words, what i mean is that the money you spent and the time invested in studying and gaining the skills to obtain the OD degree = the former part of your last statement.

This is why i said that KHE usually emphasizes the question, "Why should i hire you? what will you bring to my practice?" ...and by this I'm almost certain he means beyond the "specialized skills" you possess with your OD.

 

[optom123]

What questions?

There are some basic things that I could consider doing, which would bring in patients as mentioned before. Do I have anything to give to the practice besides what the owners are already doing or have done? No...but if I did, I would be working for myself, instead.

Or, I could choose to not do anything but show up to work and make more of a great income with minimal stress by working at corporate.

I hope you are working on responses to the other questions? i am definitely curious to hear your answers.

"You expect to get paid well because you possess specialized skills"....ok...so what? doesn't everyone who graduates with an OD have the "same" skill set?
In other words, what i mean is that the money you spent and the time invested in studying and gaining the skills to obtain the OD degree = the former part of your last statement.

This is why i said that KHE usually emphasizes the question, "Why should i hire you? what will you bring to my practice?" ...and by this I'm almost certain he means beyond the "specialized skills" you possess with your OD.

 

[Jason K]

Or, I could choose to not do anything but show up to work and make more of a great income with minimal stress by working at corporate.

Oh dear god.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

.....Or, I could choose to not do anything but show up to work and make more of a great income with minimal stress by working at corporate.

If you think corporate is minimal stress then you will be in for a BIG surprise!

 

[optom123]

If you think corporate is minimal stress then you will be in for a BIG surprise!

David Langford, OD, Walmart Vision Centre thinks otherwise!

I am still waiting for someone to post why KHE's offer is better than corporate optometry. Remember, its not just me...most graduates will want to pursue a higher paying job, i.e. corporate.

 

[xmattODx]

David Langford, OD, Walmart Vision Centre thinks otherwise!

I am still waiting for someone to post why KHE's offer is better than corporate optometry. Remember, its not just me...most graduates will want to pursue a higher paying job, i.e. corporate.

You do realize that most corporate optometry "jobs" are "independent", right? This means that you have to go out and find patients. They don't just show up. If there are no patients you make nothing. Kind of like KHE's offer!

I can tell you I've been in a lot of corporate locations where I've sat around doing nothing. Its ok if you are paid a guarantee by the leaseholder and you don't mind going to the mall every day but then you'll never make very much. You'll cap out at around 80K if you can find something full-time. The real money is being the leaseholder and finding a sufficient number of patients to come and pay you... kind of like a private practice except you have to walk into Wal-Mart/the Mall everyday and you'll make less.

I'm very confused by you.

 

[optom123]

You do realize that most corporate optometry "jobs" are "independent", right? This means that you have to go out and find patients. They don't just show up. If there are no patients you make nothing. Kind of like KHE's offer!

I can tell you I've been in a lot of corporate locations where I've sat around doing nothing. Its ok if you are paid a guarantee by the leaseholder and you don't mind going to the mall every day but then you'll never make very much. You'll cap out at around 80K if you can find something full-time. The real money is being the leaseholder and finding a sufficient number of patients to come and pay you... kind of like a private practice except you have to walk into Wal-Mart/the Mall everyday and you'll make less.

I'm very confused by you.

Not all corporate practices are like that though...the ones who have a vision center or whatever they call it and are not busy will more than likely shut down.

For the 8 or so hours you're working at wal-mart/corporate, about 3000 patients walk through the door. If EVEN less than 1% of these customers visited you for eye care, you would make more than KHE's offer. How many customers visit a PP every day? 10-30? That's nothing compared to what Corporate brings in.

I'm not saying corporate is the way to go, but its better than what most PP's offer.

 

[KHE]

Not all corporate practices are like that though...the ones who have a vision center or whatever they call it and are not busy will more than likely shut down.

For the 8 or so hours you're working at wal-mart/corporate, about 3000 patients walk through the door. If EVEN less than 1% of these customers visited you for eye care, you would make more than KHE's offer. How many customers visit a PP every day? 10-30? That's nothing compared to what Corporate brings in.

I'm not saying corporate is the way to go, but its better than what most PP's offer.

Even though it's painfully obvous that there's a blue vest with a smiley face on it in your future, I'm going to say this one more time....

My offer allows someone interested in starting a practice to do it without any investment. They don't have to pay rent, salary for staff, overhead, marketing, utilities, nothing. In order to make the "going rate" all they would have to see is an average of four patients a day which is a lot less than they would have to see in the corporate world or in most traditional private practice employment situations.

I can assure you that if you start a practice cold and you see four patients a day you will not be drawing a salary for a looong time. My offer takes care of that.

You say that if 1% of 3000 people walking into a corporate location see you, you could make more than you would with me. 1% of 3000 is 30.

Would you rather see 30 patients a day and get paid $350 or see 4 and get paid $350?