Jefferson vs. UVM vs. Georgetown (WL)

[hughmonstah]

Just to get it out of the way: shared cons and pros:

I think being a Californian, they both share the cons of being far from home, having a high cost of attendance, and neither really seemed to emphasize research as much during their interview day talks/tours.

That said, they both had the pros of being pretty good programs, being P/F (AFAIK), having an atmosphere I feel like I can succeed in and have faculty that seem to be dedicated to their students. I like Burlington and Philadelphia equally for different reasons and don't think location will play too big a role in my decision (despite the big weather difference).

I'm also WL at Georgetown, but I have doubt I'd get off, but if someone thinks that's the better choice, then I'd like to get opinions on that, too.

I know people at both schools, so I'll be asking them for input, but I just want some more opinions on both programs. If you have anything to add to pros and cons, I'd love all the input I can get.

Current interest: I've been interested in radiation oncology or medical oncology for a while and the lifestyle specialties . That said, I don't really know what I want yet, so I'm keeping my options open.

What I want out of my school: My biggest priority is matching back into California or just being able to go back home and be closer to my family. Based on match lists, both schools seem to send equal numbers of people to California, though almost none in the specialties of interest (outside of IM if I go med onc I guess).

Jefferson

Pros:

• Public transportation seems to be better and necessities (grocery stores) seem to be more accessible by bus, walking, etc.
• Great location - lots of historical landmarks, seems pretty diverse, and is in a good part of town
• Staff seem very open to input

Cons (potential):

• Larger class size - twice the size of UVM's (unsure if that'd be good or bad for me)
• Lots of nearby medical schools - does that affect rotations at all?
• New curriculum for 2021 class - more of a wildcard than a con

UVM

Pros:

• Smaller class size (again, unsure if this is truly a pro or con)
• School overall seems to be very open to change

Cons:

• Less diverse than Philly (I know that there's a fairly large refugee population in VT, but it'll feel weird being one of very few SEA people there)
• I think I read somewhere about VT's rotations being more spread out throughout NE?

I know I need to do some more research, but while I do, I'd appreciate all the input I can get! Thanks!

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[deev04]

Not a med student but I was just had a conversation with a friend who's at UVM so I'l take a stab.

From what he was saying, the fact that people can (i.e. don't have to) do rotations all over New England and across the US might actually be a huge plus and counterbalance potential concerns over VT's lack of diversity. UVM is very OOS heavy and self-aware and knows that VT/rural medicine isn't where most it's students want to land. The flexibility in the clinical curriculum reflects this and is specifically designed to accommodate any and all interests of students.

Found this description on the website if you haven't already come across it:

Advanced Integration Rotations: Go Where You Wanna Go
Beginning in March of the third year, UVM students begin Advanced Integration, which allows students to shape their own professional development. Students design their own rotations in specialties and geographical areas they want to explore further---from urban hospitals to international locales. And because these rotations begin in April and May of the third year, UVM students have a broader array of clinical rotations across the country from which to choose than their counterparts in more traditional curriculums. Clinical Experiences - Student Affairs | College of Medicine | University of Vermont

UVM is also the only game in town (really the main game in the state). My friend seemed to think this creates a monopoly of sorts on a lot of cool programs/ECs/research with the community. Not sure how much this actually matters, but Philly is one of the most saturated cities in terms of med schools, so this might be a point of comparison.

 

[tarheelpenner]

Jefferson being in Philly does not affect rotations at all. If anything, it gives you opportunities to do away rotations at other schools. Jefferson has their own hospital, so does Drexel, Temple, and Penn. Unsure about PCOM, but there are plenty of rotations to go around from what I understand. Ask Dr. Strange if you have concerns.

 

[deev04]

I'd agree. I don't think it affects rotations at all. My friend's point was about opportunities for programs and research in the community. Obviously Philly is huge and all of the schools have various opportunities to engage with the community. My friend just felt being the only game in town presented an enormous opportunity to either have first dibs on community programs or for students to create their own research/programs since if its not already being done by UVM, it's not being done.

My friend seemed to think this creates a monopoly of sorts on a lot of cool programs/ECs/research with the community

 

[tarheelpenner]

I'd agree. I don't think it affects rotations at all. My friends' point was about opportunities for programs and research in the community. Obviously Philly is huge and all of the schools have various opportunities to engage with the community. My friend just felt being the only game in town presented an enormous opportunity to either have first dibs on community programs or for students to create their own research/programs since if its not already being down by UVM, it's not being done.

I was responding to OP's question about rotations.

As to yours: each school conducts their own research, so theres plenty of research opportunities. Idk about the other EC's/cool programs but I interviewed at all 4 of the Philly schools and it just seemed to me like they all worked together. (an example being Puentes de Salud clinic was mentioned at three of my interview days). More students could also mean more programs have been created. None of the students I talked to mentioned feeling like there wasn't enough research/community outreach to go around at all. They actually stressed the opposite--that philly is a city dense in resources and programs such as this, and because its such a big city there are so many diverse opportunities to take advantage of. Only reporting what the students on interview day said though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[hughmonstah]

Thank you both for your input @tarheelpenner and @deev04

 

[greys1284]

I'd agree. I don't think it affects rotations at all. My friends' point was about opportunities for programs and research in the community. Obviously Philly is huge and all of the schools have various opportunities to engage with the community. My friend just felt being the only game in town presented an enormous opportunity to either have first dibs on community programs or for students to create their own research/programs since if its not already being down by UVM, it's not being done.

I have actually heard the same thing, not necessarily at UVM but at other medical schools that are alone in their city. Most of the students I have talked to about it say its a really big plus.

 

[deev04]

As to yours: each school conducts their own research, so theres plenty of research opportunities. Idk about the other EC's/cool programs but I interviewed at all 4 of the Philly schools and it just seemed to me like they all worked together. (an example being Puentes de Salud clinic was mentioned at three of my interview days). More students could also mean more programs have been created. None of the students I talked to mentioned feeling like there wasn't enough research/community outreach to go around at all. They actually stressed the opposite--that philly is a city dense in resources and programs such as this, and because its such a big city there are so many diverse opportunities to take advantage of.

Ya, I'd agree that I can't imagine there would be a scarcity of opportunities in Philly, even with all the schools. Philly is a big city, so it makes sense that there would be more opps for students (compared to say if Burlington, VT spread its community/resources over four schools). Jefferson has great and plentiful research opportunities. Sounds like there are also ample opportunities to get involved in the incredibly diverse Philly community. Going there will not limit you in any way.

I was trying to add the perspective of a current student, particularly since I had never really thought about the potential advantages of being the only school in a city/state. Again, I don't think going to a city where there are other medical schools limits you in any way. But, it does seem as though there could be some cool advantages to being the only school driving community initiatives/programs and research in the entire state. Not sure how much this should weigh in a decision, but thought it might be cool to think about.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Feel free to reach out with specific questions. Outgoing MS4 at Jefferson.

Jefferson being in Philly does not affect rotations at all. If anything, it gives you opportunities to do away rotations at other schools. Jefferson has their own hospital, so does Drexel, Temple, and Penn. Unsure about PCOM, but there are plenty of rotations to go around from what I understand. Ask Dr. Strange if you have concerns.

I should be auto-tagged whenever Jefferson comes up. Haha

 

[tarheelpenner]

Feel free to reach out with specific questions. Outgoing MS4 at Jefferson.


I should be auto-tagged whenever Jefferson comes up. Haha

ha! I'll be sure to actually tag you from now on, instead of just mentioning you

 

[hughmonstah]

Feel free to reach out with specific questions. Outgoing MS4 at Jefferson.


I should be auto-tagged whenever Jefferson comes up. Haha

Thanks! Expect another tag later this week, so others can benefit, too (unless you prefer to answer through PMs of course)

 

[hughmonstah]

@Doctor Strange Here's my list of questions. Thanks in advance and sorry for some of the broader ones!

1. Have you ever felt like the large class size has affected your experience at Jeff (for better or for worse)? I can imagine it being harder to connect with professors/doctors for letters and stuff.
2. Are lectures video or audio recorded?
3. Do you feel like there are a lot of opportunities at Jeff (ie research)?
4. How are the faculty/student relations? Do you feel like faculty are very supportive? Since class size is so big, do you think that professors aren't as close as they could be (my friend at UVM said most of them knew his first name before he even knew them)?
5. Do you think the student body as a whole is more collaborative than competitive (cut-throat)?
6. Another class size question: On rotations, do students get a lot of time with their preceptors or the residents?
7. Has the large number of medical schools in the area affected your experience at Jeff?
8. How well do you think Jeff is doing at prepping you for Step 1/2 and for the match/how invested is the school in seeing its students succeed?
9. What do you and your friends do for fun? What are your impressions of the area?
10. As a general last question, would you mind sharing what you've liked/disliked about your experience there now that it's been 4 years?

 

[Doctor Strange]

@Doctor Strange Here's my list of questions. Thanks in advance and sorry for some of the broader ones!

1. Have you ever felt like the large class size has affected your experience at Jeff (for better or for worse)? I can imagine it being harder to connect with professors/doctors for letters and stuff.
2. Are lectures video or audio recorded?
3. Do you feel like there are a lot of opportunities at Jeff (ie research)?
4. How are the faculty/student relations? Do you feel like faculty are very supportive? Since class size is so big, do you think that professors aren't as close as they could be (my friend at UVM said most of them knew his first name before he even knew them)?
5. Do you think the student body as a whole is more collaborative than competitive (cut-throat)?
6. Another class size question: On rotations, do students get a lot of time with their preceptors or the residents?
7. Has the large number of medical schools in the area affected your experience at Jeff?
8. How well do you think Jeff is doing at prepping you for Step 1/2 and for the match/how invested is the school in seeing its students succeed?
9. What do you and your friends do for fun? What are your impressions of the area?
10. As a general last question, would you mind sharing what you've liked/disliked about your experience there now that it's been 4 years?

1) Not really. If anything, the larger class size allows you to better find a group of classmates that you can really get along with. The classes are extremely diverse, with people from every walk of life and from different backgrounds. It's an asset, in my opinion. When it comes to getting letters, you will never get letters from a professor; that's just not something you need for residency. As far as doctors, it's pretty much going to be the same as any other medical school: your performance will be evaluated from the 4-6 weeks you're on a rotation. Faculty at most medical schools are very familiar with writing strong letters based off of 1-2 weeks of experience with a student, if need be. It's just the way it works.

2) Audio recorded and synced with the Powerpoint slides.

3) I have almost no interest in research, and even I found that some research opportunities would just fall into my lap. This is an academic hospital (a large one at that), and there is plenty of research going on. An attending or fellow could always use an extra medical student hand to due some data mining or number crunching.

4) Faculty/student relations are good. The faculty are very receptive to feedback that they are given. I wouldn't say that students are that "close" to faculty, as most students don't really go out of their way to introduce themselves or talk to professors during office hours. Heck, a good number of students stop going to lecture altogether. That being said, if you are one of those people, the faculty here are very friendly.

5) Yes, definitely. It's a P/F system with no curve. There are resources (outlines, Anki decks, books, etc.) that are passed down from generations of medical students here and will inevitably be made available to you.

6) It depends. Most of your time will be with your residents. You'll mainly see your attending on rounds, and then they'll be off doing other things like co-signing notes or seeing outpatients. I've been on some specialty services where the attendings are more hands-on and will have small chalk talks when rounds are over.

7) Not really. Pretty much all the medical schools have their own hospitals. We do have some outside students rotating at Jefferson and some of our affiliate sites, but I have never felt like I was being edged out.

8) All schools are invested in seeing their students succeed. Period. It's foolish for them not to. You get eight weeks of dedicated study time for Step 1. About 2 weeks of dedicated time for Step 2. We generally match very well.

9) There's lots to do in the area. Personally, my friends and I like to hang out at a favorite bar for a drink or two (or three). When the weather gets nice, there are some fantastic beer gardens around the area. I don't go clubbing as much as I used to, but there's definitely a great scene for that. There's also plenty of non-alcohol related things to do, as well. Numerous great restaurants, tourist-y stuff, museums, shows, pretty much anything you want to do, you'll be able to find. Philadelphia is truly a great city, and, although I'm happy with where I matched, it's going to be hard to leave.

10) I have no regrets coming to Jefferson. It has been a wonderful four years. I've made lifelong friends and feel like I've had amazing clinical training. Philadelphia is a wonderful city to live in.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

 

[hughmonstah]

1) Not really. If anything, the larger class size allows you to better find a group of classmates that you can really get along with. The classes are extremely diverse, with people from every walk of life and from different backgrounds. It's an asset, in my opinion. When it comes to getting letters, you will never get letters from a professor; that's just not something you need for residency. As far as doctors, it's pretty much going to be the same as any other medical school: your performance will be evaluated from the 4-6 weeks you're on a rotation. Faculty at most medical schools are very familiar with writing strong letters based off of 1-2 weeks of experience with a student, if need be. It's just the way it works.

2) Audio recorded and synced with the Powerpoint slides.

3) I have almost no interest in research, and even I found that some research opportunities would just fall into my lap. This is an academic hospital (a large one at that), and there is plenty of research going on. An attending or fellow could always use an extra medical student hand to due some data mining or number crunching.

4) Faculty/student relations are good. The faculty are very receptive to feedback that they are given. I wouldn't say that students are that "close" to faculty, as most students don't really go out of their way to introduce themselves or talk to professors during office hours. Heck, a good number of students stop going to lecture altogether. That being said, if you are one of those people, the faculty here are very friendly.

5) Yes, definitely. It's a P/F system with no curve. There are resources (outlines, Anki decks, books, etc.) that are passed down from generations of medical students here and will inevitably be made available to you.

6) It depends. Most of your time will be with your residents. You'll mainly see your attending on rounds, and then they'll be off doing other things like co-signing notes or seeing outpatients. I've been on some specialty services where the attendings are more hands-on and will have small chalk talks when rounds are over.

7) Not really. Pretty much all the medical schools have their own hospitals. We do have some outside students rotating at Jefferson and some of our affiliate sites, but I have never felt like I was being edged out.

8) All schools are invested in seeing their students succeed. Period. It's foolish for them not to. You get eight weeks of dedicated study time for Step 1. About 2 weeks of dedicated time for Step 2. We generally match very well.

9) There's lots to do in the area. Personally, my friends and I like to hang out at a favorite bar for a drink or two (or three). When the weather gets nice, there are some fantastic beer gardens around the area. I don't go clubbing as much as I used to, but there's definitely a great scene for that. There's also plenty of non-alcohol related things to do, as well. Numerous great restaurants, tourist-y stuff, museums, shows, pretty much anything you want to do, you'll be able to find. Philadelphia is truly a great city, and, although I'm happy with where I matched, it's going to be hard to leave.

10) I have no regrets coming to Jefferson. It has been a wonderful four years. I've made lifelong friends and feel like I've had amazing clinical training. Philadelphia is a wonderful city to live in.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks for your input! I ultimately decided on Jeff last week and paid the deposit and first month's rent for my apartment in Barringer. Definitely going to look at other 1BR options for after first year.. Barringer seems pricey haha.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Thanks for your input! I ultimately decided on Jeff last week and paid the deposit and first month's rent for my apartment in Barringer. Definitely going to look at other 1BR options for after first year.. Barringer seems pricey haha.

Welcome to Jefferson.