J1 Statement of Need Canada

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luvblue

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Hello everyone. I am a canadian IMg and i have been denied SON for IM residency since they capped. Can someone tell me the process to appeal further. I really appreciate it
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Likewise I was also denied a SoN for IM residency... I just emailed the J1 office back and try to appeal that way, doubt they will do anything...
 
Do u know if we could contest this via a lawyer
 
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No idea.. I am just crushed right now. There is this old SDN thread about what happens after being denied, but the government has become a lot stricter when it comes to extending extra J1s.
 
I was denied too, i don't know what to do now. And its freaking Friday so no office is open now and we have to spend the weekend just waiting.
 
help wanted said:
I was denied too, i don't know what to do now. And its freaking Friday so no office is open now and we have to spend the weekend just waiting.
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Yea it’s too frustrating , . I cannot believe it still . Do u know anyone who has appealed last year ?
 
Just emailing everyone from local MP to provincial reps, hopefully they can escalate the issue.
 
Hey guys, I was not issued a SON as well. Perhaps if there is a lot of us a petition can be started?
 
samsung2018 said:
Hey guys, I was not issued a SON as well. Perhaps if there is a lot of us a petition can be started?
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Can u please tell me how to do it ? They have reduced the number of SONs issued this year . Can v start based on that ?
 
I'm in the same boat. Looking into the possibility of getting an H1B visa instead. Please post if anyone makes any progress appealing. Thank you!
 
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Do you think if we can raise this issue at CBC news?
 
They made it very clear last year, that they will NO LONGER be "Flexible" with the limits, and offer any SONs by any "appeal" processes. Otherwise, what is the point of even putting a limit?

It sucks, but they made it very clear where they want people going into, and that is mostly FM.

Even last year, people did NOT get SONs for IM(and maybe 1-2 other specialties, but dont have the file open infront of me), and had to re-apply this year.

It absolutely sucks, but it is an expected outcome of their decision process. Until some students self-select more into FM. From a match perspective, irrespective of Visa.. its debatable how much of the IM hopeful cohort can be absorbed by FM..since there are way more IM programs than FM programs, and much so many that rely on IMGs to run the programs. Time will tell.

Your best bet is call your program director ASAP, explain the situation, and see if they will delay your start date and sponsor H1B. If you are an IMG (non US grad), you need STEP 3 done before you can get H1B. Explain the situation clearly.

IF you are a Canadian at a USMD/USDO program, and didn't get SON for J1, apply for OPTI ASAP(if you havent already done so). You can do your PGY1 on that visa(sorry carribeans, aussie, ireland, only US graduates can back up with this visa). Then you can re-apply for SON J1 next year, and make absolutely sure you are submitted at X:00:00 time stamp. Or hopefully your program may consider sponsoring H1B also. Be creative, some people have offered to put towards their educational stipend amounts towards the costs etc...(just dont go advertising this, as it may not be "allowed").

It is a ****ty process, but it seems they are being firm with things, and this was already the scenario last year..and they made it abundantly clear that would be the norm moving forward. As well they published the cut-offs for each specialty early also.

Lastly: IF you have an alternative citizenship other than Canada, it would be very useful to look into the specifics of using that to get a J1 instead...and how that all would pertain re: ECFMG etc etc. There may be ways to make that work for the lucky few who do have that option. Or marry a US citizen, easier said then done. But obviously this is more likely to be fruitful, if you do this WELL IN ADVANCE of matching, and likely may even need to do it before you got ECFMG certified etc.. This is all speculation, but you need to sort it out.

It is getting harder and harder for IMGs and it will only get worse. For future students reading and considering foreign programs, make sure you know the ins-and-outs of the process before you commit to it. Be sure you are comfortable with the level of risk. If you can get admitted into a USMD or USDO program, they have historically offered far greater security, and will very likely offer the same security in the future.

Those who didn't get a SON this year, may very well get it next year, or find alternative path outside of the J1(H1B, marriage etc). But unfortunately some may not, and that is the ugly outcome of the transition process.
 
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I am an Indian citizen. Does anyone know how to move forward in this situation. I will be contacting ECFMG soon.
 
UBC2014 said:
They made it very clear last year, that they will NO LONGER be "Flexible" with the limits, and offer any SONs by any "appeal" processes. Otherwise, what is the point of even putting a limit?

It sucks, but they made it very clear where they want people going into, and that is mostly FM.

Even last year, people did NOT get SONs for IM(and maybe 1-2 other specialties, but dont have the file open infront of me), and had to re-apply this year.

It absolutely sucks, but it is an expected outcome of their decision process.

Your best bet is call your program director ASAP, explain the situation, and see if they will delay your start date and sponsor H1B. If you are an IMG (non US grad), you need STEP 3 done before you can get H1B. Explain the situation clearly.

IF you are a Canadian at a USMD/USDO program, and didn't get SON for J1, apply for OPTI ASAP(if you havent already done so). You can do your PGY1 on that visa(sorry carribeans, aussie, ireland, only US graduates can back up with this visa). Then you can re-apply for SON J1 next year, and make absolutely sure you are submitted at X:00:00 time stamp. Or hopefully your program may consider sponsoring H1B also. Be creative, some people have offered to put towards their educational stipend amounts towards the costs etc...(just dont go advertising this, as it may not be "allowed").

It is a ****ty process, but it seems they are being firm with things, and this was already the scenario last year..and they made it abundantly clear that would be the norm moving forward. As well they published the cut-offs for each specialty early also.

Lastly: IF you have an alternative citizenship other than Canada, it would be very useful to look into the specifics of using that to get a J1 instead...and how that all would pertain re: ECFMG etc etc. There may be ways to make that work for the lucky few who do have that option. Or marry a US citizen, easier said then done.

It is getting harder and harder for IMGs and it will only get worse. For future students reading and considering foreign programs, make sure you know the ins-and-outs of the process before you commit to it. Be sure you are comfortable with the level of risk.

Those who didn't get a SON this year, may very well get it next year, or find alternative path outside of the J1(H1B, marriage etc).
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Have you gone through this process before, or are you going through this now?
 
luvblue said:
I am an Indian citizen. Does anyone know how to move forward in this situation. I will be contacting ECFMG soon.
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i don't think ecfmg will do anything as it's the canadian government that is placing the restriction. what province are you from?
 
hctz9 said:
i don't think ecfmg will do anything as it's the canadian government that is placing the restriction. what province are you from?
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The point is that you may be able to put your alternative citizenship down as where you will do your "2 year home req" for the J1. Maybe. Maybe not. Like i said this is more likely an avenue for those with dual citizenship IN ADVANCE of this whole process, not after its already happened and you've already gotten the process rolling.
 
UBC2014 said:
The point is that you may be able to put your alternative citizenship down as where you will do your "2 year home req" for the J1. Maybe. Maybe not. Like i said this is more likely an avenue for those with dual citizenship IN ADVANCE of this whole process, not after its already happened and you've already gotten the process rolling.
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I have only Indian citizenship .. n a Canadian PR ., so hope it helps .. but I ll try my best to approach local MP.. But it’s really cruel .. 165 SON will never b enough for IM n it’s very less for other specialities ...
 
luvblue said:
I have only Indian citizenship .. n a Canadian PR ., so hope it helps .. but I ll try my best to approach local MP.. But it’s really cruel .. 165 SON will never b enough for IM n it’s very less for other specialities ...
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This was clear last year also, so it is nothing new.

You're going to want to contact the ECFMG asap and see what you can do. You may be able to change your country back to India and go through whatever process India has to get a J1. I am not familiar with how that country manages things.

Dont bother wasting your time contacting MPs. You have a more pressing option of potential viability with your indian citizenship, that may or may not be helpful.
 
Thanks a lot for your advise. I have put Indian citizenship even in the application but my mailing address is Canadian one. I will contact ecfmg asap
 
The J visa process in the US requires that your SoN come from the last country of residence. Even if you have a second citizenship, it won't help (theoretically).

Next year, they have lowered the cap to 150.
 
aProgDirector said:
The J visa process in the US requires that your SoN come from the last country of residence. Even if you have a second citizenship, it won't help (theoretically).

Next year, they have lowered the cap to 150.
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Yes, that was the missing piece to my thought process. I recalled something to that effect, hence why its probably more so of help for someone who is embarking on the IMG pathway as a Canadian, where you can do some paperwork and maneuvering to make your 2nd country of citizenship your "last country of residence" etc.

Hard to have that help at this point..but if you have a clever lawyer and some paper trails..maybe? But very unlikely if its patently obvious you were last in Canada as your permanent residence.
 
sidefx said:
Wow, didn't realize so many people were missing out on visas this year... kind of shocking. Canada is really one of the only countries that puts caps on their J1 physician sponsorships. Australia, UK, most other countries have unlimited caps for whatever specialty you wish to pursue...

After working so hard and taking on so much debt I didn't want to let my future hang on whether or not I got my SoN paperwork in fast enough, that is complete BS and also ridiculous that there are even caps seeing as many who get J1 visas wont even return to Canada anyways, but will get a J1 waiver and continue practicing in the US.

But anyways, some advice to any applicants in future years reading up on statement of need... Have all the paperwork filled out before the match, including multiple copies of the application form (fill one out for every possible program you could match to), have an email pre-drafted as well so that all you have to do when the match comes out is take a screenshot of NRMP webpage, attach it and hit send. My SoN app was submitted at 1:00 on the dot, not a minute later. Do yourself a favor and have everything ready to submit instantly so that you aren't the one who gets burned by this absurd policy. It takes about 1-2 hours to have copies of all the forms filled out and ACGME documentation pre-downloaded for every program you ranked so that you are 100% ready to smash the submit button as soon as the match gets posted. If you are on rotation or at work or something on match day, take a bathroom break before the match is released or just call in sick for the day. Seriously. Do not underestimate the stakes here or the ridiculous lengths to which other people will go to make sure they beat you to the punch. It might seem overkill to fill out 10 separate application forms, one for each permutation of match results you might receive... but believe me, this is one instance where you don't want to leave anything to chance and I guarantee you there are dozens of people out there who have their applications sent at 1:00 on the dot.
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This is great advice. I think even given that people should realize that at some point, if everyone is submitting at 1:00 on the dot, some people will STILL lose out. Obviously currently, the case is the most diligent people are getting the SONs in those specialties where the # of matches is greater than the # of Statements. Its sad to see some people get denied TWICE in a row, but when you look into the specifics you see that the 2nd time they still applied 20 mins late. At that point, you can't feel sorry for them for their given situation. Now, once the system pushes towards everyone being diligent and applying at 1:00pm, then, that there will be the ****ty situation of truly getting screwed.

Not that the situation isnt already a mess, it is, but you can only play within the confines of the rules at this point. No one forced people to apply to IM, when FM has way more SONs etc. However that said, I can understand why many people want IM, other than the job prospects, it may very well actually be easier for an IMG to match IM given that there are significantly more IM spots as a whole than FM spots, and also a substantial portion of IM spots that take alot of IMGs/FMGs.
 
sidefx said:
After working so hard and taking on so much debt I didn't want to let my future hang on whether or not I got my SoN paperwork in fast enough, that is complete BS and also ridiculous that there are even caps seeing as many who get J1 visas wont even return to Canada anyways, but will get a J1 waiver and continue practicing in the US.
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To be honest, I have yet to see a robust analysis of the the actual # of J1 waivers available by a reputable source. Really, SGU or Ross or one of those schools should hire a consultant to draft a report to show students what is TRULY available in the way of J1 waivers. Then in turn, the schools and/or students could show this report to Health Canada to show that many in fact ARE staying in the US...and dont necessarily need to be accounted for in the resource planning...and *maybe* just *maybe* they would increase the SON numbers.

I have done my own research and anaylsis in the past, but i'm obviously not fully aware of all the information, but to the best of my knowledge, there doesnt seem to be enough J1 waivers for all potential IMGs/FMGs who want to stay in the US after residency. Remember, its not just Canadian IMGs, its also all the indians, pakistanis, chinese, iranian, etc who are mostly also on J1 visas, and unlike Canadians who generally have a well reimbursed system to potentially return to(given its own hurdles), the rest do not and disproportionately would want to stay in the US to earn a US income.

Conrad 30 is a big program, which as the name applies..has about 30 j1 visa waivers in primary care specialties per state. Now, not all states participate, and those that do, do not give out a full 30 waivers etc.

Then there is the veterans administration waiver program, and then the health and human services waiver program. I think there is the appalachian waiver program still in existence too.

Either way, I am not convinced that the vast majority of those matching are indeed staying in the US. I have no doubt a good portion are, but hard to know the exact numbers. I'd imagine more often than not, those that go into FM do want to come back, since Canada's reimbursements are generally much better. Not to mention the pull of having family and friends back home etc. Surely one of the reasons they implemented the GIM license requirement before subspecialization is allowed on the J1 is because they did have a lot of specialists returning from the US? And this was one way to curb an excess of supply when jobs arent as readily available in certain disciplines.

Either way, that is neither here nor there. I just regularly read people who are still in the training phases talk about the J1-waiver, but less commonly see a robust report of if it is truly as easy as people make it out to be.
 
I would like to know where i stand in the list..is it possible to obtain the information through health Canada SON contact number?
 
luvblue said:
Thanks a lot for your advise. I have put Indian citizenship even in the application but my mailing address is Canadian one. I will contact ecfmg asap
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Were you able to get in touch with ECFGM, and speak to about getting a SON from India
 
Hit a roadblock. I guess others found an alternative. Can you respond if you were successful with any approach? Don't think you are going to lose anything.
 
hello everyone, I talked with ECFMG and they told me that I could get the statement from India. I would mostly get it from there since I see no progress here. At least I have hope in this direction. Was anyone else able to get a positive reply from the canadian govt?
 
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Are we able to get a count of how many of us there are? (denied IM SoN as well)

Please sign a petition that I am unable to post the link for here. It is called Demand an END to Limitations on Medical Education. NOW. It is located on "thepetitionsite"

I have yet to receive any positive news that is Canadian. Spoke with the poc for SoN for Ontario--> re-iterated what was said in the letter I received of denial, which was the same thing I was told in my appeal for SoN and then for Exceptional Need. I am still having my letters sent to various MPPs/MPs so that we can make some noise around this.
 
Can you please tell me the procedure for the appeal process and how to contact Health Canada. They aren't attending the calls, nor replying to emails.
 
I have heard people who applied on March 16 got SON. if not please mail them
 
Has anyone heard back from Health Canada today?
Anyone successful in their appeal?
 
hctz9 said:
Has anyone heard back from Health Canada today?
Anyone successful in their appeal?
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Many people who applied March 16 and were initially denied, received it today.
 
I don’t understand either. Did they explain why?
What about the people that did not apply on the 16th, did they get denied?
 
sidefx said:
So wait, did they just do a complete 180 and decide to give everyone who appealed it a statement of need regardless of the stated limits now??
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Regardless of the appeal, people received it if they applied anytime on March 16th, a day to remember.
 
I was still denied because i applied late, but trying to sort it out.. keeping my fingers crossed. and yes , they have given to everyone who applied on 16th. I am very much happy for the doctors who got SON. Congrats and good luck
 
luvblue said:
I was still denied because i applied late, but trying to sort it out.. keeping my fingers crossed. and yes , they have given to everyone who applied on 16th. I am very much happy for the doctors who got SON. Congrats and good luck
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Sorry to hear that. What options are you pursuing? Any hope?
 
It is on CBC, I cannot post the link however, google
"Canadian medical student nearly loses residency over Health Canada red tape"
 
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