Is there any Rad Onc program which is categorical?

[peach12]

Hi everybody,
Anyone can mention programs which are offering categorical rad onc positions?
Thank you

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[Carlin]

Beaumont is categorical

 

[peach12]

Beaumont is categorical

Thanks a lot Carlin

 

[metallica81788]

Kentucky was categorical as of 2014

 

[peach12]

Thank you Metallica81788

 

[deleted774703]

Hi everybody,
Anyone can mention programs which are offering categorical rad onc positions?
Thank you

Wisconsin x 1 spot
Rush x 1 spot

 

[peach12]

Wisconsin x 1 spot
Rush x 1 spot

Thank you radoncdoc16

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I believe Penn is entirely categorical (someone, please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[medgator]

Emory mskcc?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

CCF
penn
Emory
Beaumont

 

[Neuronix]

Hi everybody,
Anyone can mention programs which are offering categorical rad onc positions?
Thank you

Word of caution: the categorical programs tend to have intense medicine internships.

I personally don't that think an intense medicine internship (often focused on general medicine of inpatients and ICU) is valuable for rad onc (an outpatient specialty that primarily works with other specialists), but opinions vary on this point.

 

[taserlaser]

Word of caution: the categorical programs tend to have intense medicine internships.

I personally don't that think an intense medicine internship (often focused on general medicine of inpatients and ICU) is valuable for rad onc (an outpatient specialty that primarily works with other specialists), but opinions vary on this point.

They may prepare you and instill a future sense of comfort though should you ever decide to switch specialties.

 

[RadRadRad]

Also gives you potential exit strategy from radonc residency

 

[DukeNukem]

Also gives you potential exit strategy from radonc residency

Who leaves a rad onc residency? You have a chill time in most residencies. Maybe you write a dozen or more papers with a few faculty. You make connections at ASTRO and otherwise. You get known a little bit in the community. You make great connections with patients. You enjoy the technology and learning about cancer. It's all fun and games.

It's not until PGY-5 that you realize that you're screwed. The faculty you personally wrote several manuscripts for won't lift a finger to write an e-mail or pick up a phone on your behalf. Your chair whose ass you personally kissed and whose bidding you did for years offers you a fellowship. All the people you "connected" with over the years aren't hiring or would love to hire you but their own resident is in a similar position so they're hiring them instead... You thought you were different and special. You thought this couldn't happen to you. Your patients loved you, your attendings heaped praise, you were good at research and with patient care. So what if the job market is bad? I've been networking and productive. I'm good at this. I'm not that picky about location. I'll be fine. Job market? That's someone else's problem. That's what I told myself.

So you apply all over the country and get few interviews. A few private gigs without partnership tracks and with pathetic $/RVU reimbursements or low straight salaries with no clear path to raise it. Or academic satellite jobs with the same $200-$300k straight salaries you get offered in private that seem more stable and hey, maybe I can do some academic stuff? You're in your 30s now and you figure, eh, I'll make the best of it. Another residency isn't worth it. Besides I like being a rad onc and a job is a job right? So what if it's not in the region I wanted? I'll be the best darn attending they've ever seen. Then I can just jump to another job in a few years if it doesn't work out.

Then you get to your new job and find out you were lied to about pretty much every facet of your highly malignant 100% clinical "academic" job, now have a non-compete for basically the entire state, and they will never raise your pay. You look for a new job for years just like everyone at this churn and burn job before you, except now there is no job market. So after 100+ applications on every website and calling every friend you have, you get nowhere. Why is this guy looking again so early? I thought he was academic, so what's wrong with him that he's failing in academics? Now you're even further into your 30s, with a family, and with nowhere to go. So your wife tells you to get some anti-depressants and go back to work. Hey, at least I'm as busy as ever despite COVID-19. It gives me something to do I guess. Highest patient satisfaction scores in the practice. Hooray. I get a pathetic bonus every year when I'm over my private practice RVU target (like literally: go have a nice weekend kind of money), but this year they cut my salary 10% for COVID-19. Awesome.

Oh that medicine internship PGY-1 I did 5 or 6 years ago? Yeah, that was too long ago. Sorry, you're going to have to repeat internship if you want to switch to a specialty with a future like med onc.

Rad onc: the only winning move is not to play.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Word of caution: the categorical programs tend to have intense medicine internships.

I personally don't that think an intense medicine internship (often focused on general medicine of inpatients and ICU) is valuable for rad onc (an outpatient specialty that primarily works with other specialists), but opinions vary on this point.

in the current environment it might be nice to have a solid intern year to fall back on. Also, a good medicine year certainly helps in many scenarios. I have worked with people who did a “chill” TY and clinically they were not very strong. I know it is anecdotal and im sure plenty of great people who did TY but medicine year people are just more comfortable with antibiotics, pain management (morphine equivalent conversions), clinical medicine issues that come up if you have an active brachy practice. You’re just an all around better doctor. Of course, you can rely on your consultants for many of these questions but i have been told by these services that they really appreciate that i don’t dump it all on them.

 

[RickyScott]

in the current environment it might be nice to have a solid intern year to fall back on. Also, a good medicine year certainly helps in many scenarios. I have worked with people who did a “chill” TY and clinically they were not very strong. I know it is anecdotal and im sure plenty of great people who did TY but medicine year people are just more comfortable with antibiotics, pain management (morphine equivalent conversions), clinical medicine issues that come up if you have an active brachy practice. You’re just an all around better doctor. Of course, you can rely on your consultants for many of these questions but i have been told by these services that they really appreciate that i don’t dump it all on them.

You can receive good IM training with prelim year at an affluent community hospital. Will also have time to read. Place like UPenn would be incredibly intense and at least in past a lot of scut.

 

[Neuronix]

I rotated at Penn for rad onc as a medical student. The resident I was mostly with had a little self-made plaque posted above their desk that read "I survived the Penn internship." That resident was totally honest with me that the internship year was horrible. I ran into one of the categorical rad onc interns on the floor looking really run down, dirty crooked glasses, hair a mess. Not for me, folks! I guess I'll just be a "not very strong" clinician (though I don't think that's true, others will be the judge).

I personally spent all my time on my sub-I seeing stuff like COPD flares and CHF and wondering how the heck I'd use that as a rad onc. Hint: I don't. If they're actually sick I call a specialist in that area and/or send them to the ER. In my TY I did a lot of outpatient medicine and specialty electives that I think have made me a better rad onc. I certainly understand the surgeries ENT and urology do much better. I learned how to do cystos and prostate biopsies. I started doing laryngoscopies. I saw the inside of the OR to observe surgeries, not just hanging out on the floors writing SOAP notes and managing constipation like I saw the surgery interns doing. But even in outpatient medicine, it's learning to recognize who needs to go to the ED, how to manage outpatient issues like antibiotics and other medications... That's what I actually do in practice. The medicine internships were heavily inpatient based, which I don't think are so helpful. YMMV I guess.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

You can receive good IM training with prelim year at an affluent community hospital. Will also have time to read. Place like UPenn would be incredibly intense and at least in past a lot of scut.

yea this is the way to do it. There are also academic places with one month on and off of wards with clinic rotations in between. Penn medicine is terrible

 

[scarbrtj]

I chose a surgical intern year because my program let me and surgery was way more appealing to me than IM, and way more appropriate. Got to see a ton of mastectomies and lumpectomies and APRs and what not. You get to wind up doing some minor things like draining cysts, starting chest tubes, doing bedside sterile venous access procedures. Got to rotate on plastics, neurosurg, urology, gyn onc, and ped surg which was a lot of cancer. All that is really helpful on the off occasion you have to go to OR as a rad onc. I recommend anyone wanting to become a "brachytherapist" to do a surgical internship for sure, and for general rad onc it's still very helpful.

 

[deleted774703]

I chose a surgical intern year because my program let me and surgery was way more appealing to me than IM, and way more appropriate. Got to see a ton of mastectomies and lumpectomies and APRs and what not. You get to wind up doing some minor things like draining cysts, starting chest tubes, doing bedside sterile venous access procedures. Got to rotate on plastics, neurosurg, urology, gyn onc, and ped surg which was a lot of cancer. All that is really helpful on the off occasion you have to go to OR as a rad onc. I recommend anyone wanting to become a "brachytherapist" to do a surgical internship for sure, and for general rad onc it's still very helpful.

Point well taken

Does anyone still want to be a brachytherapist?

I guess if it comes down to homelessness or Brachy as a primary career, I would do that

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Point well taken

Does anyone still want to be a brachytherapist?

I guess if it comes down to homelessness or Brachy as a primary career, I would do that

better keep up your brachy skills. When the breadlines come, it might differentiate you from some.

 

[medgator]

Point well taken

Does anyone still want to be a brachytherapist?

I guess if it comes down to homelessness or Brachy as a primary career, I would do that

I've seen several brachy positions lately looking for either fellowship or significant clinical experience

 

[deleted774703]

I've seen several brachy positions lately looking for either fellowship or significant clinical experience

Im guessing this makes most new grads ineligible?

As much as I hate on job market that is one flaw of mine that I don’t want a brachy heavy job

Occasional is fine

 

[scarbrtj]

Point well taken

Does anyone still want to be a brachytherapist?

I guess if it comes down to homelessness or Brachy as a primary career, I would do that

It's a thing. Their adorable quirkiness reminds me of gold bugs.

 

[metallica81788]

Im guessing this makes most new grads ineligible?

As much as I hate on job market that is one flaw of mine that I don’t want a brachy heavy job

Occasional is fine

I would argue that new grads from brachy-heavy programs would be better suited for a brachy-heavy job than most practicing radoncs in the country. They haven't had as much time for their skills to diminish.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Im guessing this makes most new grads ineligible?

As much as I hate on job market that is one flaw of mine that I don’t want a brachy heavy job

Occasional is fine

Having applied for all those 'brachy heavy jobs' all that means is that a person is 1) willing to do it and 2) one of your attendings is either well-known nationally or buddies with somebody in the hiring department. No program actually cares about case volume or ability when evaluating candidates. That's usually because the chairs themselves have no idea what actually makes a good job candidate. They just need a willing participant and beyond that, the stuff that wins out is, as always, who you know, not what you know.