Is it impossible to start a private practice these days?

[Taven7755]

Commando....I would 200% percent agree that experience is not an indicator of expertise. As I am fond of saying, just because someone gets older doesn't make them any less an idiot .

With this said, there ARE limits to that principle. Especially in the case of our profession, there are certain nuances that for me, require someone to at least have some experience in the field, even if that is 2 years of op school. In other words, experience is not everything, but it does count for something when all else is equal. In the case of this argument, which was poisoned by Socal, you are talking about the opinions on one hand of ZERO field experience (i.e. not in op school, not a doctor) vs someone that has gotten their name into disease textbooks in the profession....clearly, any rational person would say that these two cannot be judged equally. They certainly would not be in any other profession. (I come from engineering, and the guy in his 1st year of engineering school wouldn't dare tell a 40 year old that's done it since they were in diapers how the game works. That is called being an arrogant punk.)

As for the issue at hand that the question posed, DILLIGAF and others (KHE, Visionary,etc) that it IS still possible to make it privately, but that it requires a lot of homework and a new angle. The fact that a 40 year old business man would notice that a lot of the problems of this profession draw back to national economic issues, and these exacerbate an already bad situation, is simply the experience talking; anyone that does so should not be ridiculed for not pining everything to this simpleton argument on oversupply, insurance, etc. That is the INexperience talking, because the words on forums like this are all most of us (including the malicious) have to go on. I for one will always factor that in, that being WHERE one's experiences are coming from....and in the case of a profession like ours, I will generally choose someone that has at least spent one day of their life actually doing that which they are analyzing.

So yes, an OD out for 2 years vs one out for 30 = VERY slight advantage to the experienced, but only if their ideas reflect it.

Not one hour of op school (or 1st year) vs OD with 15 years = no contest

Just my two cents. Anyone can see who the clueless one is anyway.

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[Commando303]

Commando....I would 200% percent agree that experience is not an indicator of expertise. As I am fond of saying, just because someone gets older doesn't make them any less an idiot .

With this said, there ARE limits to that principle. Especially in the case of our profession, there are certain nuances that for me, require someone to at least have some experience in the field, even if that is 2 years of op school. In other words, experience is not everything, but it does count for something when all else is equal. In the case of this argument, which was poisoned by Socal, you are talking about the opinions on one hand of ZERO field experience (i.e. not in op school, not a doctor) vs someone that has gotten their name into disease textbooks in the profession....clearly, any rational person would say that these two cannot be judged equally. They certainly would not be in any other profession. (I come from engineering, and the guy in his 1st year of engineering school wouldn't dare tell a 40 year old that's done it since they were in diapers how the game works. That is called being an arrogant punk.)

As for the issue at hand that the question posed, DILLIGAF and others (KHE, Visionary,etc) that it IS still possible to make it privately, but that it requires a lot of homework and a new angle. The fact that a 40 year old business man would notice that a lot of the problems of this profession draw back to national economic issues, and these exacerbate an already bad situation, is simply the experience talking; anyone that does so should not be ridiculed for not pining everything to this simpleton argument on oversupply, insurance, etc. That is the INexperience talking, because the words on forums like this are all most of us (including the malicious) have to go on. I for one will always factor that in, that being WHERE one's experiences are coming from....and in the case of a profession like ours, I will generally choose someone that has at least spent one day of their life actually doing that which they are analyzing.

So yes, an OD out for 2 years vs one out for 30 = VERY slight advantage to the experienced, but only if their ideas reflect it.

Not one hour of op school (or 1st year) vs OD with 15 years = no contest

Just my two cents. Anyone can see who the clueless one is anyway.

Yes, experience counts, but that impossible point is trying to determine how much is enough to have a valid thought; the cut-off seems always to move with the person making the consideration. Someone who's been around two years will feel, without a couple of years under the belt, a person really doesn't know enough to have reasonable thoughts; the girl who's spent ten years in practice might feel, until you've worked for maybe at least eight good ones, you really don't have a sound sense of what's going on; and the "noob" will believe however much he's gleaned bouncing around over the Internet, is all that is requisite to making a contribution.

I'm not really disagreeing with your point that one must know some background before being equipped to properly analyze an issue; I'm just suggesting how arbitrary seems to be the definition of the amount of this background.

 

[socal2014]

Dilligaf is just wrong, people.

A doc with over 9,000! years of experience thinks that:

a) oversupply is not an issue because its prevalent in all other professions

b) managed care works for optometrists (how clueless can you be!?)

c) corporate influence on optometry is not an issue

among other comical ideas, which I am too lazy to mention.

At the end of the day, facts hold more value than opinions, even if you have contributed to some random disease journal that only academics would consider worth opening or even if you have a billion practices opened worldwide. Ultimately, experiences are dynamic and are arbitrary, whereas facts are static and universal.

 

[Taven7755]

This argument is as old as discussions themselves, and it happens in almost anything. Here it is: One person speaks up and says something that is not "party line", that being little slogans and hyperbole, and instead gives an argument that tries to give nuance to something they feel is being grossly oversimplified.....then a "slogan man" takes them down for not saying what everyone else is saying, and for being irrational, all for trying to make people think a little harder about something.

The fact that you took what dilligaf said as meaning what you wrote is astounding.
1) When I read it, I see the whole "70% of the people you graduate with will be disappointed" and "I believe there is a massive oversupply in most every major city." That is hardly an argument for it not being as issue. He is just saying that there is an over-exaggerated trend of oversupply due to the economy, and that people should recognize that business in many areas has changed in the US. That you took it to mean "oversupply is not an issue" is ridiculous.

2) He simply stated that the dropoff is NOT due to managed care so much. (optometry has never really been a managed care favorite), but more to the fact that demand for a lot of things has taken a hit in the last 2 decades. Again, this is called NUANCE. Yes, managed care sucks for OD's...and ALSO yes, the demand drop has made people that used to be able to pay no longer can. Why does every opinion have to be said in one sentence? I always figure that is proof that it is just parotting.

3) In reading his last post, he talked about how he worked in corporate, and that their business model has poisoned the business. I am not trying to take sides here, but you are making up an opinion that was never expressed. It sounds like "I don't understand that. He must mean this thing over here that I can pack into a slogan and mock."

This needs to stop anyway. I don't feel like you are bringing anything but bitterness in, and I can get that anywhere. Just saying. Go do some homework and find proof of the things you speak of. Until then, it is just the same ignorant broken record that has made SDN a joke. Not anything most other people wouldn't tell you.

 

[IndianaOD]

I don't want to jump in here to pour gas onto this now-aimless fire, but I will briefly chime in to say, this idea one's opinions are invalidated in a room with someone who has more experience, is unsound. One can have been around for a long time, and have a stack of accomplishments on which to stand, but that should not preclude one's word from being challenged by a person with far less time in the arena. If it were the other way around, we wouldn't have to think about much of anything, at all: we could just find the oldest person in the room, ask him how he feels, then lean back in contentment that the answer has been revealed. (Again, if you intend to share it, save your complaint that I've taken anyone's side — that isn't what this post is.)

I agree with your point. You can have an academic with an alphabet soup after their name, OD, PhD, MS, FAAO Dipl and they are completely clueless about real world optometry. Experience doesn't always equal relevancy.

 

[Hoffy]

As far as experience in the field, I would say I have a generous amount of experience.

Care to elaborate? Really I tried to not to chime in but what is your experience since you really do seem to avoid the question. Not trying to take sides but it's peculiar to be so gung-ho about things without relating these experience directly to yourself. I'm curious

Seems like we have a lot of people with squeeky wheel syndrome on here!

 

[nc2tarheels]

Care to elaborate? Really I tried to not to chime in but what is your experience since you really do seem to avoid the question. Not trying to take sides but it's peculiar to be so gung-ho about things without relating these experience directly to yourself. I'm curious

Seems like we have a lot of people with squeeky wheel syndrome on here!

I've asked at least 5 or 6 times and he avoids it every time.

 

[mintyjulep]

Care to elaborate? Really I tried to not to chime in but what is your experience since you really do seem to avoid the question. Not trying to take sides but it's peculiar to be so gung-ho about things without relating these experience directly to yourself. I'm curious

Seems like we have a lot of people with squeeky wheel syndrome on here!

My guess: the extent of his "experience" is his yearly check-up to purchase glasses and contact lenses and his pile of rejection letters from optometry schools that has fueled his bitter hatred of the profession. Seriously, if he were actually an optometrist, he'd be rubbing it all up in our faces just to prove how knowledgeable he is. The fact that he withholds information regarding his so-called experience is evidence enough that he doesn't want to disclose any ammo against himself. Too embarrassing!

 

[Hoffy]

Haha look upon his posts for what they are to him/her - purely entertainment.

 

[Bioflare]

...blah blah blah...
Ultimately, experiences are dynamic and are arbitrary, whereas facts are static and universal.

I'll just pick on this, facts aren't static or universal, they are ever changing along with the world we are in. It was a FACT that the world was flat, it's also true that facts can be proven wrong and they change, so you're point is moot.

 

[Dr Gump]

When I become an OD, I would like to open my own practice in my home town. However, with the cost of schooling increasing and the salaries of ODs falling/not keeping up with inflation, what are most people doing now that have/had the same dream as me? I don't want to be 50 and just opening up a practice (since I will be 37 by the time I graduate, which is old).

I was almost in the same boat as yourself...35 when I graduated. Been out 10 years and own my own practice.

It is feasible to open your own practice cold, but you need to do lots of research. Look for smaller growing towns with a need for good medical management. Then make sure that you can get on the medical insurance panels. This is sometimes easier in a location of "need".

You can also look for existing practices with "older" docs looking for an out. They are out there, you just need to find them and analyze the situation.

I didn't do a residency out of school, but I did do a self imposed type of slave labor. I worked for a private practice doc, did fill in at several corporate locations and even worked for an Ophthalmologist my first year out. This gave me a broad perspective and taught me many things that will only be gleemed over in school.....how to file correct claims, how to manage staff, marketing, the importance of location and most important - longevity. Owning your own practice works just like compounding dividends. The longer you are in practive, the easier it becomes and the more rewards are appreciated.

Don't know where you are located, but to get the best results you must sometimes sacrifice. Smaller towns are great, but you will have to travel to find most restaraunts, points of interest and airports. This is not a big deal if you understand that you must figure in an extra hour or two with your plans.

Family, marriage, homes, schools and other things can be a barrier, but most of these things can be overcome.

I live in a small town in Texas and have expanded my practice to include two larger cities. We travel alot, but have no kids. Never will. This will, hopefully, accelerate retirement. Retirement should be what you strive for, especially if you will be 37 at grauduation. Look at the big picture and you will do fine.

Good luck and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Dr. Gump