Is HSPS worth it?

[JoHar]

Looking for advice from peeps that are currently considering, have applied, or have accepted the HPSP scholarship.

Obviously the dollar value of the scholarship is essentially unmatched. I am considering going into a surgical speciality and I don't think that is likely to change over the course of medical school. I spoke to a recruiter today and am thinking about applying.

Does anyone have any advice? pros vs cons?

My concerns are residency options which the navy recruiter told me that you are allowed to do a civilian residency and the time repayment. The recruiter estimated that most who go through the program serve for about 6-8 years. Many do more.

Thanks for the help!

JoHar

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[BigBoss]

No, unless you want a career in the military.


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[JoHar]

No, unless you want a career in the military.


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I wouldn't consider it if I knew forsure that I did not want a career in the military. I am willing to have a short military stent (6-8 years) with no debt and then a longer civilian career afterwards.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Compilation - Read Next: Essential Wisdom from your Military Medicine Colleagues

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You are not guaranteed a civilian residency. Many specialties are not sending very many people civilian deferred. If you are not okay doing a military residency, don’t sign.

Military life is different from civilian life. If you’re not okay missing stuff from your family and friends, being gone for months at a time (like 7-10) in ****ty places, don’t sign.

If you have a real desire to serve your country that is equal to your desire to be a physician, then sign. Don’t do it just because the financial incentive seems good, and you think you could tolerate the pay back. Those are the people who end up miserable.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Looking for advice from peeps that are currently considering, have applied, or have accepted the HPSP scholarship.

Obviously the dollar value of the scholarship is essentially unmatched. I am considering going into a surgical speciality and I don't think that is likely to change over the course of medical school. I spoke to a recruiter today and am thinking about applying.

Does anyone have any advice? pros vs cons?

My concerns are residency options which the navy recruiter told me that you are allowed to do a civilian residency and the time repayment. The recruiter estimated that most who go through the program serve for about 6-8 years. Many do more.

Thanks for the help!

JoHar

If you plan on getting out, the amount you save in tuition will be less than your potential earnings in a surgical field as a civilian. It basically evens out for primary care.

Since you make no mention of really wanting to serve, but talk about the commitment timeframe for getting out and only the $$... you should NOT do it. Military life can be very hard at time, and the amount you will make is minimal compared to your civilian counterparts (save for some primary care fields as stated).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I declined HPSP this year. The reasons were family and concerns about being able to specialize. Fellowships exist in the military but they extend your contract. As others have stated, you likely wont end up saving all that much money if you end up in PC, and will lose a lot if you specialize in anything or do surgery.

In the Navy, most docs do a GMO tour before residency. Basically they are an all purpose PC assigned to a Navy or Marine unit for these 4 years. When the 4 years is up the commitment is over and you can get out and apply to residencies if you so choose. I know someone who did that and loved it, and someone who like you was told that civilian residencies were possible and was disheartened to find out he was going to be a GMO. In the Navy, most HPSP students do GMO tours before residency, and most who do end up doing residency at some point do them through Navy programs. It is highly unlikely (though possible) that you would be given the opportunity to do a civilian residency right after graduating. More likely you're headed out to the fleet for 4 years, after which you can get out of the military and do residency wherever you want.

I wouldn’t call a third of interns doing GMO tours “most.” But yes, civilian residencies are not common.

 

[MusicDOc124]

^ I'll also add the unmentioned caveat to doing residency after a GMO.... If you do a military residency after a GMO, as suggested as one of the paths.... you then RE-OWE time back for the during of how long the residency was. For instance: 4 years of school with 4 year scholarship, then 4 years GMO. You're done if you go back to civilian, but if you do say a 4 year military residency, you owe another 4 years AFTER residency. Total active time after school ends at that point is 12 years compared to 4 (GMO) or 8 (residency immediately per the example).

 

[CUatthefinishline]

I just wanted to say this was really informative. I am strongly considering the HPSP as well for mainly financial reasons so thanks for all the info!

 

[JohnnyKnoxville]

Going to med school alone isn’t worth it...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

^ I'll also add the unmentioned caveat to doing residency after a GMO.... If you do a military residency after a GMO, as suggested as one of the paths.... you then RE-OWE time back for the during of how long the residency was. For instance: 4 years of school with 4 year scholarship, then 4 years GMO. You're done if you go back to civilian, but if you do say a 4 year military residency, you owe another 4 years AFTER residency. Total active time after school ends at that point is 12 years compared to 4 (GMO) or 8 (residency immediately per the example).

Just to clarify this in case it's not obvious: you don't owe 4 more years just for doing residency. If you did a 4 year scholarship, you wouldn't owe 8 years if you do residency--you would DO 8 years after medical school if you do a 4 year residency because residency time does not count for payback.

You incur a commitment for every year of residency, but it is served concurrently with your HPSP payback, not after.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Just to clarify this in case it's not obvious: you don't owe 4 more years just for doing residency. If you did a 4 year scholarship, you wouldn't owe 8 years if you do residency--you would DO 8 years after medical school if you do a 4 year residency because residency time does not count for payback.

You incur a commitment for every year of residency, but it is served concurrently with your HPSP payback, not after.

To be clear, I specifically state of a GMO is done. If you do a GMO for the amount of your scholarship/longer, your time is paid. If at that point you stay in and do a military residency, the amount of time spent in a military residency after a GMO re-incurs a service obligation equal to the length of training.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To be clear, I specifically state of a GMO is done. If you do a GMO for the amount of your scholarship/longer, your time is paid. If at that point you stay in and do a military residency, the amount of time spent in a military residency after a GMO re-incurs a service obligation equal to the length of training.

Oh, I see. I missed the part where you said if you do a GMO and THEN a residency. I actually don't know anyone who's done 4 years of GMO and then went back to residency if they were HPSPers. I'm sure they exist, but at that point your commitment is up, and signing on with the hopes of matching on what is at least your third attempt seems pretty ballsy.

I swear, I'm really good at CARS lol.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I don't know what CARS is lol @Matthew9Thirtyfive

 

[MusicDOc124]

Oh, I see. I missed the part where you said if you do a GMO and THEN a residency. I actually don't know anyone who's done 4 years of GMO and then went back to residency if they were HPSPers. I'm sure they exist, but at that point your commitment is up, and signing on with the hopes of matching on what is at least your third attempt seems pretty ballsy.

I swear, I'm really good at CARS lol.

I know a few people who did. Mostly has to do with competitiveness and some fields/locations preferring a prior or a GMO over a brand new HPSP'er (i.e. emergency, uro, and I think something else). Obviously the competitiveness of a given field changes year to year within the military as well, much more so than civilian.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don't know what CARS is lol @Matthew9Thirtyfive

Oh, sorry old timer. It's the new and improved verbal section.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Oh, sorry old timer. It's the new and improved verbal section.

oh ok haha what's it stand for? "Can't Actually Read S***?" lol

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I actually don't know anyone who's done 4 years of GMO and then went back to residency if they were HPSPers

One of our incoming radiology residents did this. Not a preferable path IMO.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

oh ok haha what's it stand for? "Can't Actually Read S***?" lol

It stands for "cantankerous a$$holes rambling saucily.”

 

[Stagg737]

Rule of thumb for HPSP is that if you're only in it for the money, don't do it. There are some exceptions, like if you attend an insanely expensive school where you would rack up huge debt (think $500k+) and want to go into a lower paying field like peds or path. However, for most people it's either a financial wash or is worse in the long run (assuming you're not a financial *****), especially for higher paying surgical fields.

The White Coat Investor has some good posts on his website about HPSP and military medicine in general that are worth reading for those considering those routes. There's also an older thread on SDN that has a VERY in-depth financial breakdown of HPSP finances vs. the traditional route, though it may be outdated by now.

 

[JoHar]

Thank you all for the useful information. The GMO year sounds like a huge turn off in my case (considering surgery).

I think that I am going to look more into FAP if I still find my desire to serve in the military to be strong after medical school.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thank you all for the useful information. The GMO year sounds like a huge turn off in my case (considering surgery).

I think that I am going to look more into FAP if I still find my desire to serve in the military to be strong after medical school.

GMO is what you make of it. I know quite a few GMOs who enjoyed their time. It’s only 2 years (3 if you do DMO/FS). Not sure about the other branches though.

 

[JoHar]

GMO is what you make of it. I know quite a few GMOs who enjoyed their time. It’s only 2 years (3 if you do DMO/FS). Not sure about the other branches though.

I am sure that it has the potential to be awesome. I could also envision it being very frustrating if I wanted to begin my residency training in any surgical speciality but was required instead to interrupt or place on hold this training to be a GMO.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I am sure that it has the potential to be awesome. I could also envision it being very frustrating if I wanted to begin my residency training in any surgical speciality but was required instead to interrupt or place on hold this training to be a GMO.

Yep. If you don’t want to risk that, definitely don’t do HPSP. You can do fap. But depending on the branch, you might still get put in an operational billet.

 

[Medic741]

Thank you all for the useful information. The GMO year sounds like a huge turn off in my case (considering surgery).

I think that I am going to look more into FAP if I still find my desire to serve in the military to be strong after medical school.

Army doesn’t do GMO unless you choose it (if you’re a competitive app). Army did civilian deferments for gen surg this year. Downside is having to do DCC + BOLC in separate summers but ah well.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Army doesn’t do GMO unless you choose it (if you’re a competitive app). Army did civilian deferments for gen surg this year. Downside is having to do DCC + BOLC in separate summers but ah well.

And having to do a BS tour after you’re already an attending. No thanks.

 

[JoHar]

Army doesn’t do GMO unless you choose it (if you’re a competitive app). Army did civilian deferments for gen surg this year. Downside is having to do DCC + BOLC in separate summers but ah well.

Does Airforce have GMO? Just curious, don’t want to start a branch war in here. I love all the branches, my main reason for starting with navy was base locations.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Does Airforce have GMO? Just curious, don’t want to start a branch war in here. I love all the branches, my main reason for starting with navy was base locations.

Don’t join the Navy for base locations. First tour doctors often go to Japan, and there are even docs in Diego Garcia. I’m Navy and love it, but base locations are only a small part of why.

The Air Force has GMOs. The Army does not have GMOs. They do have battalion surgeon tours that attending physicians from every specialty can get tasked with. The current CO of USUHS is an ob/gyn, and when we met for our orientation, he talked at length about his battalion surgeon tour where he was essentially a GMO for several years and experienced significant skill atrophy. When he went back to his specialty, he had to go back to being essentially a resident for 4-5 months to get back into it—something that is apparently par for the course.

Not every army doc does those, but they are definitely there and someone has to do them. Also not going for a branch war here. I love the Navy and have cousins in the Air Force as docs who love it.

 

[deleted647690]

If I join the new space force branch, can I become the first zero gravity space surgeon? XD