Is Caribbean Med school that bad?

[supsh17]

Hey guys, so its almost application time. I know there's a lot of bad stuff, like attrition rates, residency matching, and them being "for-profit."

I have a 3.6 cGPA and got a 501 MCAT first attempt (which I am retaking to improve). I'm apply this cycle, but hypothetically, if you're rejected from cause your GPA/MCAT isn't competitive enough for US schools, but are otherwise a good student, ready to work hard, and apply for one of the top Carib schools, is it still a bad idea to consider as a last choice cause you really want to do medicine?

Just wanna know your guys' opinions, experiences, if you know someone who took this route and did it work?

Thanks!

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[PreMedStudent55555]

 

[CCmetal94]

Yes, it is a bad idea (check preivous threads it's been explained ad nauseum). With your current stats you should apply DO or retake MCAT and apply USMD

 

[Lawpy]

Hey guys, so its almost application time. I know there's a lot of bad stuff, like attrition rates, residency matching, and them being "for-profit."

I have a 3.6 cGPA and got a 501 MCAT first attempt (which I am retaking to improve). I'm apply this cycle, but hypothetically, if you're rejected from cause your GPA/MCAT isn't competitive enough for US schools, but are otherwise a good student, ready to work hard, and apply for one of the top Carib schools, is it still a bad idea to consider as a last choice cause you really want to do medicine?

Just wanna know your guys' opinions, experiences, if you know someone who took this route and did it work?

Thanks!

You can apply to US DO schools. Regarding Caribbean, read the following:

gonnif's Analysis of the Caribbean Route (read this carefully and in detail to know why going to the Caribbean is a very bad idea)

WedgeDawg's Argument Against Going to Medical School in the Caribbean

Caribbean Cycle Theory

 

[Lozzo]

I'd personally look at DO schools before a Carib MD school...I think you'd have a decent chance at most of the DO schools! (I'm also pre-med though, so I could be wrong)

 

[YayPudding]

Yes.

 

[787593]

Hey guys, so its almost application time. I know there's a lot of bad stuff, like attrition rates, residency matching, and them being "for-profit."

I have a 3.6 cGPA and got a 501 MCAT first attempt (which I am retaking to improve). I'm apply this cycle, but hypothetically, if you're rejected from cause your GPA/MCAT isn't competitive enough for US schools, but are otherwise a good student, ready to work hard, and apply for one of the top Carib schools, is it still a bad idea to consider as a last choice cause you really want to do medicine?

Just wanna know your guys' opinions, experiences, if you know someone who took this route and did it work?

Thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

If they operated in the US, they would be closed and required to pay restitution to those defrauded.

 

[libertyyne]

It depends, do you consider a 50% of chance of getting burdened with 200k plus of debt that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy without the prospect of being a physician a bad thing?

 

[supsh17]

You can apply to US DO schools. Regarding Caribbean, read the following:

gonnif's Analysis of the Caribbean Route (read this carefully and in detail to know why going to the Caribbean is a very bad idea)

WedgeDawg's Argument Against Going to Medical School in the Caribbean

Caribbean Cycle Theory

Thanks that was actually very helpful. I know its so risky and not really a god option. On the other hand, my parents know people whose kids went there and got residencies and are now doctors and they encourage me try that route because of that..but of course I'm not sold, cause I know about the risk and that even their success is a matter of hard work, and much luck. Plus, I'd much rather stay in the states any chance I get, than go overseas...Such a hard thing when it comes to deciding what to do with your life -_-

 

[787593]

Thanks that was actually very helpful. I know its so risky and not really a god option. On the other hand, my parents know people whose kids went there and got residencies and are now doctors and they encourage me try that route because of that..but of course I'm not sold, cause I know about the risk and that even their success is a matter of hard work, and much luck. Plus, I'd much rather stay in the states any chance I get, than go overseas...Such a hard thing when it comes to deciding what to do with your life -_-

 

[cactusman]

Thanks that was actually very helpful. I know its so risky and not really a god option. On the other hand, my parents know people whose kids went there and got residencies and are now doctors and they encourage me try that route because of that..but of course I'm not sold, cause I know about the risk and that even their success is a matter of hard work, and much luck. Plus, I'd much rather stay in the states any chance I get, than go overseas...Such a hard thing when it comes to deciding what to do with your life -_-

Are they pressuring you because they want you to get an MD, or because you're worried that DO won't work out? Because you're definitely competitive for DO and it is definitely not worth taking on 200k in debt because you don't get into DO the first cycle, or because your parents want to brag about the MD.

 

[supsh17]

View attachment 216017

Touché. I definitely saw that typo before I posted and I forgot to fix it. LOL

 

[supsh17]

Are they pressuring you because they want you to get an MD, or because you're worried that DO won't work out? Because you're definitely competitive for DO and it is definitely not worth taking on 200k in debt because you don't get into DO the first cycle, or because your parents want to brag about the MD.

My parents dont really know much about this stuff, which is why I don't take too much merit to their advice (for something like this, at least). DO v. MD isn't a big deal for me cause I want to do what I love and they dont mind that either. But yeah, I am asking cause I'm worried about not even making DO, much less MD.... My parents just dont want me to "waste time" because theyre convinced by the caribbean med success stories.

 

[CCmetal94]

My parents dont really know much about this stuff, which is why I don't take too much merit to their advice (for something like this, at least). DO v. MD isn't a big deal for me cause I want to do what I love and they dont mind that either. But yeah, I am asking cause I'm worried about not even making DO, much less MD.... My parents just dont want me to "waste time" because theyre convinced by the caribbean med success stories.

You have a VERY good shot at DO. Average gpa for DO matriculants is 3.55 and MCAT is 502-503. It is absolutely worth applying in my opinion. Just shadow a DO.

 

[Goro]

Ahhh, parents. Doing their best out of love and ignorance to destroy your medical career. Get them accounts on SDN and we'll educate them on the error of their ways.

Thanks that was actually very helpful. I know its so risky and not really a god option. On the other hand, my parents know people whose kids went there and got residencies and are now doctors and they encourage me try that route because of that..but of course I'm not sold, cause I know about the risk and that even their success is a matter of hard work, and much luck. Plus, I'd much rather stay in the states any chance I get, than go overseas...Such a hard thing when it comes to deciding what to do with your life -_-

 

[Lucca]

Your plan of retaking the mcat with a better study strategy and applying DO is a good idea. Depending on the mcat score you could be competitive for MD with that GPA as well.

Don't do Carib

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

Ahhh, parents. Doing their best out of love and ignorance to destroy your medical career. Get them accounts on SDN and we'll educate them on the error of their ways. [/QUOTE]


Could you imagine?

Edit: GO AWAY END QUOTE

 

[Lawpy]

@prehealthadvisor55 you could simply edit your post and delete "[/QUOTE]"

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

@prehealthadvisor55 you could simply edit your post and delete "

"[/QUOTE]
I did that several times. It won't go away.

 

[Lawpy]

Ahhh, parents. Doing their best out of love and ignorance to destroy your medical career. Get them accounts on SDN and we'll educate them on the error of their ways.

Could you imagine?

I did that several times. It won't go away.

Works for me. Try deleting your post and requoting it.

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

Could you imagine?



Works for me. Try deleting your post and requoting it.

I tried it a few times different ways. Kept screwing up. Didn't want to make an entirely new post for it. It's fine. Thanks though.

 

[DoctHouse]

Well look at it like this. Put your career on the line for residency.
Flip a coin, tails = accepted ... heads = rejected with tons of debt. Better flip wisely!!

 

[libertyyne]

Well look at it like this. Put your career on the line for residency.
Flip a coin, tails = accepted ... heads = rejected with tons of debt. Better flip wisely!!

Also, better score a 240 on step one.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But yeah, I am asking cause I'm worried about not even making DO

Apply to around 15ish DO schools. You will be fine.

 

[floatingribs]

Also you should read up on the match rate for the Caribbean, atm it's about 40% I believe but there are projections that by 2020 it'll be as low as 10% because there will be more DO schools.

 

[mistafab]

Q: "Is carribean med school that bad?"

A: Wherever there are suckers, there are scammers.

 

[Medic741]

Esp w residency merger coming up... consider that now is *not* the time to be playing with the Caribbean.

None of us is a special flower, if you don't make the cut for American med school, wont get easier for residencies. Do the work and make it happen to be stateside

 

[Sardinia]

Hey guys, so its almost application time. I know there's a lot of bad stuff, like attrition rates, residency matching, and them being "for-profit." I have a 3.6 cGPA and got a 501 MCAT first attempt (which I am retaking to improve). I'm apply this cycle, but hypothetically, if you're rejected from cause your GPA/MCAT isn't competitive enough for US schools, but are otherwise a good student, ready to work hard, and apply for one of the top Carib schools, is it still a bad idea to consider as a last choice cause you really want to do medicine? Just wanna know your guys' opinions, experiences, if you know someone who took this route and did it work? Thanks!

There are no standards when it comes to accepting students into a Caribbean medical program. Many people on this site are concentrated on only GPA/MCAT scores and the view that these schools accept "medical school rejects". These are the most innocuous and innocent variety of Caribbean students. Look to your left, now look to your right. Neither of those classmates would become doctors. But would you want to become a doctor when the "institution" also extended the same acceptance that they gave to a registered sex offender and a tabloid millennial who crashed into an elderly couple and then asked a judge to be excused from parole so he could go to the Grammy's. If that's the value that you ascribe yourself, then by all means.

 

[studentdocftw]

Caribbean schools are a joke. No requirements...just a pulse and a paycheck. They routinely accept more students than rotation spots for $$$ by kicking out students who fail their exams. I wouldn't be surprised if they arbitrarily increased the required cutoff based off the class performance to guarantee they don't oversaturate their rotation spots..which basically means they are intent on failing students. Further, transparency is non-existent with these places...they claim xx% match rate without providing a full picture of what % of the initial class even made it to that point. Finally, the merging of residencies and increased enrollment of MD/DO schools will ultimately squeeze more and more IMGs out of the match. There couldn't be a worse time to go to the Caribbean for medical school.

The end.

EDIT: I just re-read your post and realized you already know all of this, so why is this even a question for you? Seems like you are looking for one person to suggest you go.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just posting again because I just saw you are thinking of retaking the MCAT. If you are absolutely MD or bust then go for it but you need to significantly improve. If you are fine with DO then don't retake and just apply. A 3.6/501 will get a number of interviews from DO schools if all calibers.

 

[libertyyne]

Just posting again because I just saw you are thinking of retaking the MCAT. If you are absolutely MD or bust then go for it but you need to significantly improve. If you are fine with DO then don't retake and just apply. A 3.6/501 will get a number of interviews from DO schools if all calibers.

I always thought that the 3.6 503-507 was the sweet spot for DO apps. Do they publish any data besides the unstandardized school specific pages?

 

[Astra]

View attachment 216017

That picture is scary af

 

[piii]

Caribbean schools are meant for students who can't use the search bar, like OP

 

[libertyyne]

http://www.aacom.org/reports-programs-initiatives/aacom-reports

Thanks!
502-3 is the average.

 

[samantha1982]

Shots of getting residency placement from Carribean schools will get better - with the new H1B visa process, IMGs will take the spots of FMG

 

[libertyyne]

Shots of getting residency placement from Carribean schools will get better - with the new H1B visa process, IMGs will take the spots of FMG

What is the volume of fmgs? To IMGs?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thanks!
502-3 is the average.

Yeah I would say a 3.5/502-503 is the sweet spot for being able to essentially guarantee an acceptance, just more a matter of where that will come from. A 3.6/501 should have no issues with a decent school list, although probably will be passed up by the MCAT lovers. Also remember that while a 502ish is average one SD is more than 5 points.

Shots of getting residency placement from Carribean schools will get better - with the new H1B visa process, IMGs will take the spots of FMG

Why do you say this? A lot of programs actually prefer FMGs because they are usually of higher caliber than the Carib IMGs, were docs in their home country, and there are some FMG applicants from foreign schools that are in HMS, JH level of quality.

 

[Shams al Deen]

I simply know way too many successful Carrib MDs (some VERY successful) to ever buy into the utter disrespect given to top Carribean medical schools on SDN.

I've personally heard of just 2 carribean fails (and 1 seemed to have a decent excuse regarding his dropout), whereas I know well over a dozen successful ones.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I simply know way too many successful Carrib MDs (some VERY successful) to ever buy into the utter disrespect given to top Carribean medical schools on SDN.

I've personally heard of just 2 carribean fails (and 1 seemed to have a decent excuse regarding his dropout), whereas I know well over a dozen successful ones.

Lol utter disrespect? Numbers don't lie man.... also go ask them if they were applying right now if they would recommend it, none of the successful Carib docs that work at our hospital say they would.... one exact quote, "that island was hell on earth, in this day and age with DO schools having greatly increased their quality no applicant should look at the Caribbean."

 

[Stagg737]

I simply know way too many successful Carrib MDs (some VERY successful) to ever buy into the utter disrespect given to top Carribean medical schools on SDN.

I've personally heard of just 2 carribean fails (and 1 seemed to have a decent excuse regarding his dropout), whereas I know well over a dozen successful ones.

If you want to trade anecdotes we can do that. 4 kids I went to college with went to a Carib med school. 2 of them dropped out/were kicked out, one of them is on year 6 of med school (had to take a full year off to pass step 1 and took 3 years to get all his clinical rotations lined up), and one of them graduated and is applying for residency for the 3rd time. Meanwhile, none of my friends that I knew in pre-med that got into U.S. schools have dropped out or had problems matching. Only one of them took more than 4 years to graduate, and that's because she got an MPH dual degree.

Can people go to Caribbean schools and be successful? Sure, but there are too many horror stories of people dropping out or getting screwed over by the administration to make it a valid option imo. Not to mention even the "most prestigious" of them has too many lawsuits against them.

http://www.challengestudentdebt.com/ross-university-of-medicine-fraud-and-lawsuit-complaints/

There was also a thread that had a few blogs of Carib dropouts on here that were some of the most depressing stories I think I've ever seen. Basically, kid busts his butt to get into med school, goes Carib, takes on 200k+ in debt, and 15 years later is working in some other health field making 30k/year and still in 200k of debt because he can't even pay off the interest. Plenty of horror stories like that, more than should be considered acceptable.

 

[Sardinia]

It would be nice if there was a regular poster on sdn that disagrees with the notion of Caribbean programs after having attended one.

 

[Medic741]

It's amazing to me that the US government still shells out federal aid to SGU

 

[Mikkus]

It would be nice if there was a regular poster on sdn that disagrees with the notion of Caribbean programs after having attended one.

I try! But finding and then replying to each of these threads is a bit crazy, especially when most op's refuse to listen.

 

[Goro femme]

I try! But finding and then replying to each of these threads is a bit crazy, especially when most op's refuse to listen.

I just read your original thread. It was excellent. Thank you for your candor. How is IM residency going?

 

[Mikkus]

It's going, half way through the year! I'm watching the match closely this year for those who did not match the first time, curious to see how that plays out. Glad my thread was helpful, I tried to put as much into it as I could.

 

[bananafish94]

Just to add a slightly dissenting opinion, I do think that there are extremely specific situations in which a Caribbean medical school would be a reasonable choice. For example, if you had academic qualifications that indicated you could succeed in medical school (like a 32+ MCAT and a good GPA) but had something on your record that would make it impossible for you to ever get into a real medical school (i.e. getting kicked out of college for cheating or something like that). In that situation, I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that you would be amongst the students who are capable of getting past the academic barriers of medical school and can pass Step 1, thus giving you a somewhat viable path to becoming a doctor. Of course, it would still be a considerable financial risk and at that point I would probably advise just picking a different career.

 

[mwsapphire]

I would have said a decade or two ago, the hard work would have had a reasonably good chance of getting you a residency somewhere. The issue now is the decreading opportunity obtain any residency. The simple reason is the number of US graduates in both MD and DO are increasing (30% increase projected for the decade ending in 2019), However, residency slots havent appreciably increased. So more graduates competing for the same number of slots . This will squeeze the IMGs the most. And if you dont get a residency slot, you dont practice medicine.

as I've said often, before considering any offshore school applicant must go through at least two application cycles for both MD and DO with at least a year break in between (ie skip a cycle) for application repair and/or enhancement. the break is necessary to analyze and understand the weaknesses in an application. Repair may be as simple as reorganizing rewriting application or it may require postbacc, SMP, MCAT, or additional extracurricular such as clinical volunteering and other items. I strongly advise that no student should consider off shore schools until the above has been done.

Shouldn't you just not consider them at all?
Goro mentioned that they really are a total waste of time and money.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Shouldn't you just not consider them at all?
Goro mentioned that they really are a total waste of time and money.

They still produce doctors, it's just an amount of risk that a lot of people wouldn't want to consider. For anyone who wants to send one last Hail Mary they can be the avenue to reaching their dreams.

 

[Shams al Deen]

They still produce doctors, it's just an amount of risk that a lot of people wouldn't want to consider. For anyone who wants to send one last Hail Mary they can be the avenue to reaching their dreams.

It's not a Hail Mary if you go to the top 3-4 Caribbean medical schools (unless you're Aaron Rodgers). Rather, it's more like a free-throw, 70% success.