interventional neurologist vs. neurointensivist

[pballa24]

quelle est la difference??

what does an interventional neurologist do that a neurointensivist doesn't and vice versa?? and it seems to me that becoming an interventional neurologist is more difficult..again not sure why cuz i dont know the difference.

any info would be awesome.

-T

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[Rite]

quelle est la difference??

what does an interventional neurologist do that a neurointensivist doesn't and vice versa?? and it seems to me that becoming an interventional neurologist is more difficult..again not sure why cuz i dont know the difference.

any info would be awesome.

-T

Neurointensivist does a neurocritical care fellowship (1-2 years). The interventional neurologist depending on the path does either a stroke(neurovascular) or neurocritical care fellowship followed by endovascular surgical neuroradiology fellowship(basically a neurointerventional fellowship). (3-5 years)

 

[pballa24]

Neurointensivist does a neurocritical care fellowship (1-2 years). The interventional neurologist depending on the path does either a stroke(neurovascular) or neurocritical care fellowship followed by endovascular surgical neuroradiology fellowship(basically a neurointerventional fellowship). (3-5 years)

wow ok yeah i have seen some fellowship opportunities for interventional neuro that offer a 2 yr endovascular fellowship after vascuar or NICU certification. But still, thats a very long time and extremely specialized. but sounds badass. i imagine since there are so few programs out there now, its a rather difficult fellowship to get..sounds like u have to be top of your game in med school, go to a good neuro residency, and continually get high marks...prob some research would help too...im wondering if this is any more challenging to get to than a neuroradiology fellowship would be comin out of a radiol. residency?

 

[Rite]

wow ok yeah i have seen some fellowship opportunities for interventional neuro that offer a 2 yr endovascular fellowship after vascuar or NICU certification. But still, thats a very long time and extremely specialized. but sounds badass. i imagine since there are so few programs out there now, its a rather difficult fellowship to get..sounds like u have to be top of your game in med school, go to a good neuro residency, and continually get high marks...prob some research would help too...im wondering if this is any more challenging to get to than a neuroradiology fellowship would be comin out of a radiol. residency?

Currently, getting into radiology residency is harder than getting into a neurology residency. Once an individual is in a radiology residency, the ability to obtain an interventional neuroradiology spot is easier than getting in from the neurology side. However, neurologists from good programs with focused interests in endovascular therapies are being given more opportunities to fill very solid programs across America.

 

[bluegold]

I've been fascinated by this whole neuroradiology/INR/endovascular thing. But could someone please comment on whether it is actually possible to do via neurology? Sure I've seen the websites, but have you ever met anyone who's done it?

Second do all the programs require a vascular fellowship first? It seems like NYU will take you straight out of Neuro residency.

Third, why is there so much confusion with terminology, are Endovascular, INR and neuroradiology the same?

Finally, is there a list of such programs that are open to neurologists? It certainly doesnt appear on the AAN website..

Thanks for the input...

 

[bustbones26]

I've been fascinated by this whole neuroradiology/INR/endovascular thing. But could someone please comment on whether it is actually possible to do via neurology? Sure I've seen the websites, but have you ever met anyone who's done it?

Second do all the programs require a vascular fellowship first? It seems like NYU will take you straight out of Neuro residency.

Third, why is there so much confusion with terminology, are Endovascular, INR and neuroradiology the same?

Finally, is there a list of such programs that are open to neurologists? It certainly doesnt appear on the AAN website..

Thanks for the input...

There is no board of interventional neurology. In essence, the people who do any of these fellowships, call them what you want, neurointerventional, endovascualr neurology, stoke medicine, neurocrit care, etc., none of them have a board exam waiting for them at the end of the fellowship. For this reason, there is no standard on what these programs must offer their fellows. Thus, every program is just a little bit different from the other and depends on the institution offering said program. hence why some programs are two years, versus three, four, etc.

Why do people do these fellowships if there is no board? Because it helps them get creditentialed to do the procedures they want to do. For example, if you perform a fellowship at a program that gives you the hands on experience to do say endovascular procedures, as long as you have good documentation that you performed this training, you can get creditentialed to do these procedures when you become an attending at a hospital and apply for staff privileges, no matter if you are a neurologist, radiologist, critical care doc, or neurosurgeon.

Can a neurologist do endovascular fellowships? It is possible, but not very easy to do. After neurology residency, most institutions would have you do at least one year of training in stroke, vascular, or critical care neurology before transitioning you into the endovascular world. A number of institutions combine the program, i.e. you start out as a stroke fellow and if you want to stay an extra year or two, then you go forward and get more training in the endovascular world. The neurologist does need this extra training to do endovascular if they have any hopes of competing for such fellowships with radiologist and neurosurgeons.

 

[Bonobo]

I've been fascinated by this whole neuroradiology/INR/endovascular thing. But could someone please comment on whether it is actually possible to do via neurology? Sure I've seen the websites, but have you ever met anyone who's done it?

I know of 3 people personally who have completed, or are completing INR fellowships as neurologists. 2 were trained in neurocritical care, and 1 in stroke/vascular. A newsletter on the AAN website says there will be about 20 neurology-trained neurointerventionalists by next year.

Second do all the programs require a vascular fellowship first? It seems like NYU will take you straight out of Neuro residency.

This is a complicated issue. Traditionally, a vascular or neurocritical care fellowship has been necessary. The programs that take you strainght from neurology typically enforce a year of vascular neurology anyhow. The ACGME has made requirements for credentialed "endovascular surgical neuroradiology" fellowships that requires neurology candidates to have done vascular fellowships. In the past, neurocritical care fellowships allowed you to sit for the neurovascular boards. The new guidelines for neurocritical care (approved by the UCNS), do not allow this anymore, however, so in the future, you would probably have to do 1 year of vascular, whether or not you do another 2 years in the NICU.

Notably, most INR fellowships are not, and will probably not try and get ACGME approval. What counts more is getting membership in the ASITN which requires senior member sponsorship (I think). So in the end, it depends on what fellowship you are looking at, and what they are willing to accept. My own take is that 1 year of vascular should be necessary since the main added benefit that a neurologist brings to the table (as compared to neurosurgeons or neuroradiologists) is their expertise in stroke. The ideal neurology candidate will have done 1 year of vascular and 2 years of neurocritical care (and have used their elective time to do sufficient diagnostic angio's) to really match up to the diagnostic neuroradiologists and neurosurgeons in terms of training.

Third, why is there so much confusion with terminology, are Endovascular, INR and neuroradiology the same?

This has to do with turf. The ridiculous name of endovascular surgical neuroradiology is political. Depending on your background, you may be a interventional neuroradiologist, an interventional neurologist, or an endovascular neurosurgeon. The trick is to come up with a professional name that includes all three groups and is easy enough for those outside of the field to understand and remember. Maybe neuro-interventionalist?

Finally, is there a list of such programs that are open to neurologists? It certainly doesnt appear on the AAN website..

You have to hunt for this. A website designed to instruct on interventional training for neurologists might be developed soon. Until then, the web is a great resource....

B

 

[bluegold]

Thanks so much for the info...