Internships and COVID-19

[XCTFnba]

Hello everybody! Hope you guys are staying safe. I wanted to hear your experiences during the COVID-19 crisis how your vets are going about interning during this crisis? I have noticed some places are totally ok having people come in while other places I’ve emailed say that they can’t do anything til a particular time (like May or “til things calm down”). I know a few people who don’t have a lot of vet experience hours, or people, like me, who more than likely need to vary their experiences before next cycle. I’m just wondering about all this since the virus has changed the way society does things. Again, I’m doing my best to keep myself, family and society safe by not going out. That said, I also want to make sure I’m more competitive for next cycle so I want to be able to intern if it’s safe to do so. I know that seems like an inappropriate question considering that many people are dying and I’m thinking about this. I’m just curious because I think this can have a severe consequence on next years pool, as well as how society does most things. Anyways, hope everyone is staying safe and good luck to everybody!


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[K_Jaq94]

I know from my current experience of trying to get an internship/job as an actual DVM (pending May 2020 if the world doesn't end‍), a lot of places are on hold for various reasons. Some don't want people coming in because it means more people, more exposure, etc. Other places that have a financial compensation for internships are debating if they will be able to afford the intern after this is all over. I got into vet school with ~600 vet hours and I got them during 2 summers. If you think the lack of hours might be a problem, I think if you explain that the lack of hours is due to COVID19, I would hope they would understand. I feel like there might have to be some sort of forgiveness for the next 4 years because of this mess.

 

[DVMDream]

Internship is something you do after vet school. You either shadow or volunteer before vet school.

Personally if someone called up asking about this at a clinic I worked at during this time, I'd probably not consider them for any shadowing in the future either. This is a public health crisis, the need to limit exposure far exceeds anything else and as someone who wants to be in this field which is responsible for public health as well, you should recognize this.

 

[battie]

I'm with DVMD on this. There's so much going on and clinics are moving to emergency only across the country, if not flat out closing. Clinics are in a bad position to offer positions in shadowing, volunteering, etc. right now, or even guaranteeing it for the future. Everywhere is shelter in place until April 30. Virginia is until June 10. I would wait on contacting places until this actually does start to slow down later in the summer. We're at the point across the country where everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. Unfortunately, the most obvious sacrifice for pre-vets is going to be forgoing veterinary hours to add to their application for the upcoming cycle.

We also as a vet community need to keep in mind the long standing effects that this is going to have on the next cycle. Due to changes in the 3rd year curricula across schools, there will be ripple effects into the subsequent classes up to at least to the class of 2025, especially if clinics are cancelled through the summer. People applying in the upcoming cycle need to be prepared for the possibility of changes in admissions policies as a whole on the part of schools, as well as on the part of the applicants.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I read this and my first reaction was honestly to wonder what internships start in May. No worries, it's just a terminology thing that others have clarified.

Personally, if I was a practice owner, I definitely wouldn't let pre-vets shadow at this point...they need to protect their actual employees and pre-vets shadowing is definitely not "essential." Social distancing should be everyone's priority.

I recognize that it's stressful and seems like a huge deal right now, but I think veterinary schools will also recognize that people may not have been able to get the hours/diversity that they otherwise would have.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Internship is something you do after vet school. You either shadow or volunteer before vet school.

Personally if someone called up asking about this at a clinic I worked at during this time, I'd probably not consider them for any shadowing in the future either. This is a public health crisis, the need to limit exposure far exceeds anything else and as someone who wants to be in this field which is responsible for public health as well, you should recognize this.

On one hand, I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, you have to remember how it felt to apply to vet school...so much anxiety and hope and planning. I can see how this would be a question on a lot of prevets minds. While I hope most would recognize that it probably isn't appropriate for them to ask to be in a clinic right now, it also is something that they probably don't have clear perspective on due to that stress.

I find myself in a similar situation repeatedly having to remind myself of priorities and that "it'll all be okay" with regard to my clinical year, so I guess I can just empathize a little.

 

[XCTFnba]

On one hand, I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, you have to remember how it felt to apply to vet school...so much anxiety and hope and planning. I can see how this would be a question on a lot of prevets minds. While I hope most would recognize that it probably isn't appropriate for them to ask to be in a clinic right now, it also is something that they probably don't have clear perspective on due to that stress.

I find myself in a similar situation repeatedly having to remind myself of priorities and that "it'll all be okay" with regard to my clinical year, so I guess I can just empathize a little.

That’s exactly why I asked the question. Everybody’s getting affected by this. It’s sad to see so many people losing their jobs and other things like that over this whole situation. And it’s hard to imagine the impact it’s going to have on everybody. I just wanted to ask that question because, as a prevet, I’m going to be entering my second cycle. I wanna make sure I can get in my second try, so I want to be competitive. It may seem like an out of place question, but it comes from exactly what you said:anxiety about the future. I’m just trying to be as proactive as I can now so I can have as successful a future as I can have, even with this whole thing. And I know I’m probably not the only one thinking that right now. And yeah, I could definitely not imagine being somebody going into their clinical year right now. That sounds extremely rough!


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[mmmdreamerz]

That’s exactly why I asked the question. Everybody’s getting affected by this. It’s sad to see so many people losing their jobs and other things like that over this whole situation. And it’s hard to imagine the impact it’s going to have on everybody. I just wanted to ask that question because, as a prevet, I’m going to be entering my second cycle. I wanna make sure I can get in my second try, so I want to be competitive. It may seem like an out of place question, but it comes from exactly what you said:anxiety about the future. I’m just trying to be as proactive as I can now so I can have as successful a future as I can have, even with this whole thing. And I know I’m probably not the only one thinking that right now. And yeah, I could definitely not imagine being somebody going into their clinical year right now. That sounds extremely rough!


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I understand. I can imagine I would be stressed if I was applying this year as well. And I can also understand coming here to look for some advice and reassurance. But like I said, these times are definitely unique and schools will recognize that most prevets will likely not be getting the experience this summer that they otherwise would have. At this point, I suggest taking it a day at a time and not stressing too much (I know, easier said then done). As long as you have some degree of experience, it'll be okay. Everyone is anxious about what comes next for a variety of reasons. It's a situation no one imagined because no one has experienced it. Vet schools are learning to change standards and be flexible in ways they never had to before.

It will be okay for everyone. We just need to focus on social distancing so we can all come out on the other side with a story to tell our grandkids

I keep joking with my friends that generations of vet students will come after us complaining about vet school and we'll always brush them off with a "oh you think you have it rough? we had to survive a pandemic to get our DVM!"

 

[Frozenshades]

Yeahhhh, I'm in a few DVM and medical professionals groups and there's definitely been some "Someone actually called in the midst of this to shadow? wtf." Type posts.

It's not a good time. You may make yourself look bad to potential future colleagues.

 

[that redhead]

If experience hours were the only weak point on your previous application, you might consider taking a gap year as I don’t imagine you’ll be able to significantly bulk your hours up before applying. Yes, admission committees will understand lower hours but if that’s the one thing holding you back I’m not sure I’d take that leap right now.

 

[DVMDream]

Yeahhhh, I'm in a few DVM and medical professionals groups and there's definitely been some "Someone actually called in the midst of this to shadow? wtf." Type posts.

It's not a good time. You may make yourself look bad to potential future colleagues.

This. I get the anxiety that comes with applying and needing hours, but now isn't the time. Most of the vets out there dealing with this are going to respond with a wtf is this person thinking if you ask about shadowing during this time. It just...it isn't a good look to be asking about shadowing right now. Most clinics are laying off staff or going to "teams" in an attempt to reduce spread. They're short handed and stretched very thin, an email or call about shadowing now while clinics are stressed and exhausted, will leave a very bad impression. Yes, we get the anxiety of applying but the impression that will be left behind if you ask now won't be a good one.

I know that sucks, but that's the reality. There comes a point where it is appropriate to be anxious, disappointed, etc about missed opportunity. Throwing punches at a pillow, crying, ranting about the situation here, all fine. Grieve the fact that you're not going to be able to get experience right now, by all means. Just don't cross that line and actually ask about shadowing during this time, it won't be well received.

 

[JaynaAli]

On the “good(ish?)” side...this isn’t something that only you (OP) are facing. The same thing is happening for most applicants. Yes some may be paid employees and are still working, but most volunteers are in a similar boat so I really don’t feel like this is that big of a deal. Yes, yes, easy to say that when I’m not the one applying but this is a nationwide/worldwide problem. Hours may be down for all applicants. And really the 50-200 hours you’d earn in the next month or two as a part time shadow are minimal in the grand scheme of things when you think about all the parts that go into an application (grades, extracurriculars, etc.). Maybe start or find a community service project or something that shows leadership (but doesn’t spread COVID19) as a way to boost your application?

 

[battie]

The thread on the pre-allo side is saying more of the same.

Only in a, ya know, pre-allo kind of way

 

[XCTFnba]

On the “good(ish?)” side...this isn’t something that only you (OP) are facing. The same thing is happening for most applicants. Yes some may be paid employees and are still working, but most volunteers are in a similar boat so I really don’t feel like this is that big of a deal. Yes, yes, easy to say that when I’m not the one applying but this is a nationwide/worldwide problem. Hours may be down for all applicants. And really the 50-200 hours you’d earn in the next month or two as a part time shadow are minimal in the grand scheme of things when you think about all the parts that go into an application (grades, extracurriculars, etc.). Maybe start or find a community service project or something that shows leadership (but doesn’t spread COVID19) as a way to boost your application?

Oh I totally get it. I just had to ask the uncomfortable question on many of our minds. It’s honestly the least of concerns for vets right now because of course they have so much more on their minds. I only asked because it’s just mind boggling how confusing these regulations really are. I mean, people going on spring break to all these beaches, or 100s of people in grocery stores , and, at the same time, rules stating 10 or less people at a time in a place. Stuff like that really gets a person like me wondering what can and can’t we do. Some people are treating this like full lockdown and other people treat this like it’s the perfect time to do even more than usual. That’s why I asked the question, because at this point it seems like nobody knows what to do, so I was just curious. I’m trying to be respectful of people’s time, and, again, I’m only asking because of the two vastly different responses.


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[XCTFnba]

If experience hours were the only weak point on your previous application, you might consider taking a gap year as I don’t imagine you’ll be able to significantly bulk your hours up before applying. Yes, admission committees will understand lower hours but if that’s the one thing holding you back I’m not sure I’d take that leap right now.

What would you consider to be a lack of hours? I’m just curious because I want to avoid taking two gap years since I’m about to take one this upcoming year. I appreciate your input again!


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[that redhead]

What would you consider to be a lack of hours? I’m just curious because I want to avoid taking two gap years since I’m about to take one this upcoming year. I appreciate your input again!


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There really is no hard and fast number to go by. Some people with thousands of hours get rejected and some with only a couple hundred are accepted.

Did you do a file review at schools that rejected you? They would be able to offer you advice on your entire application, including their opinion of the quality and quantity of your hours. Another thing to consider is that too few experience hours can lead to lukewarm letters of rec as you haven’t had time to build a strong relationship with that person over time. I understand avoiding a gap year is ideal but you really need to reach out to schools who have rejected you to get specific feedback that you can work toward addressing; ask them about your hours as well to see if it’s something you need to devote time to improving or if there are other areas that need more attention.

 

[DVMhopefulof???]

I am applying this upcoming cycle and my clinic had to let a few people go (including myself) and I had about little over ~500 hours so I completely understand where you're coming from. Like the people who posted above me said, right now is definitely a bad time to be looking for clinics. I completely understood why my vet had to make the decision because of the public health safety and the fact that he can't afford to pay us due to the sudden decrease of clients. I attended the VMCAS virtual fair this week and the schools that I was interested in (CSU, Purdue, etc.) have told us that they have to adjust the application process when it comes to vet experience and MAYBE the GRE. I can't find other clinics or vets to shadow because of this same reason that so many are facing so honestly, there is nothing that we can do. I will apply this year anyways but there may be a possibility I may have to take a gap year. I am prepared to do whatever it takes. Remember good things come to those who wait!

 

[XCTFnba]

There really is no hard and fast number to go by. Some people with thousands of hours get rejected and some with only a couple hundred are accepted.

Did you do a file review at schools that rejected you? They would be able to offer you advice on your entire application, including their opinion of the quality and quantity of your hours. Another thing to consider is that too few experience hours can lead to lukewarm letters of rec as you haven’t had time to build a strong relationship with that person over time. I understand avoiding a gap year is ideal but you really need to reach out to schools who have rejected you to get specific feedback that you can work toward addressing; ask them about your hours as well to see if it’s something you need to devote time to improving or if there are other areas that need more attention.

Thank you. I just have to wait til May til I hear back from my instate for file reviews (that’s part of the reason I’m asking this question, because I won’t know what’s up til then). Like I’ve said I’m already taking a gap year this upcoming year, but I don’t need to be taking anymore than I have to. I had to take 5 years to get through college because I was a college athlete for 4 years and redshirted my first year. Again I totally understand and appreciate what everybody’s been saying. In my honest opinion I feel the only reason I didn’t get in was because this year was incredibly competitive. My stats honestly weren’t bad in anyway, I just think they maybe didn’t stand out enough to warrant getting in my first time. That’s why I wanted to get more experience. However, I also know that vets need to be more focused on this Coronavirus issue than people shadowing so I respect it. Thank you guys again for your input. I think it really helped


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[LyraGardenia]

A suggestion I've seen on the APVMA Facebook group is to work on online certifications during this time, so you have something to add to your application even if you aren't able to build experience hours. Fear Free is one example, although unfortunately it isn't free for pre-vets.

 

[XCTFnba]

A suggestion I've seen on the APVMA Facebook group is to work on online certifications during this time, so you have something to add to your application even if you aren't able to build experience hours. Fear Free is one example, although unfortunately it isn't free for pre-vets.

Yeah I was definitely thinking about doing some online stuff during the time being once I know for sure what was up. Do you have any good suggestions? Thank you!


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[molesperliter]

Going off of what a lot of other people are saying, I had to call a clinic I was supposed to shadow this summer for my capstone credit. I really had no choice because I had to approve my plans with the department head, but hadn't heard anything from the clinic since March. It was definitely NOT well received. And it sort of shocked me how rude the receptionist was on the phone because I've been working as an essential employee in another clinic since it all started, and I really just needed a definitive answer. So yeah... not a good time.

 

[XCTFnba]

Going off of what a lot of other people are saying, I had to call a clinic I was supposed to shadow this summer for my capstone credit. I really had no choice because I had to approve my plans with the department head, but hadn't heard anything from the clinic since March. It was definitely NOT well received. And it sort of shocked me how rude the receptionist was on the phone because I've been working as an essential employee in another clinic since it all started, and I really just needed a definitive answer. So yeah... not a good time.

I agree, it is definitely a confusing time. Some states are opening up now and it really makes it confusing now if everybody’s returning to “normal life”. That’s definitely unfortunate in your case to hear something like that. I’m just trying to find something to do this summer that’ll be productive since I just graduated


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[britzen]

I agree, it is definitely a confusing time. Some states are opening up now and it really makes it confusing now if everybody’s returning to “normal life”. That’s definitely unfortunate in your case to hear something like that. I’m just trying to find something to do this summer that’ll be productive since I just graduated


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Here's some training that leads to a preventative care certificate:

Partners for Healthy Pets | Certificate Program

“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” is the adage from Benjamin Franklin. This is as true today as it was over a hundred years ago. We, as a veterinary profession, want to improve the lives of our patients and their owners. To accomplish this, prevention is key! Knowing how to...

www.partnersforhealthypets.org

The training was suggested by one of our clinical instructors. It's not a ton of hours, but is something you can do from home for free.
I haven't done it yet so can't attest to anything in the training and how relevant you might find it as a pre-vet.

 

[britzen]

Also, vetfolio made some of their Continuing Education courses for veterinarians free. Again, not sure all of what's in there and what level you are at vs. what level the content is being produced for, but maybe worth trying out:

VetFolio

VetFolio Online Learning

www.vetfolio.com

I registered for an account and it didn't seem to limit their site to vets/vet students only (some do).

Not as good as shadowing in a clinic, but if you're just sitting at home, worth exploring a bit.

 

[BigCats]

Here's some training that leads to a preventative care certificate:

Partners for Healthy Pets | Certificate Program

“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” is the adage from Benjamin Franklin. This is as true today as it was over a hundred years ago. We, as a veterinary profession, want to improve the lives of our patients and their owners. To accomplish this, prevention is key! Knowing how to...

www.partnersforhealthypets.org

The training was suggested by one of our clinical instructors. It's not a ton of hours, but is something you can do from home for free.
I haven't done it yet so can't attest to anything in the training and how relevant you might find it as a pre-vet.

Also, vetfolio made some of their Continuing Education courses for veterinarians free. Again, not sure all of what's in there and what level you are at vs. what level the content is being produced for, but maybe worth trying out:

VetFolio

VetFolio Online Learning

www.vetfolio.com

I registered for an account and it didn't seem to limit their site to vets/vet students only (some do).

Not as good as shadowing in a clinic, but if you're just sitting at home, worth exploring a bit.

So helpful, thank you!! As an aside, I was able to register fine for the first one as a pre-vet student, but vetfolio wanted proof of being a current vet/tech/assistant student for the free student membership. Sad because they have a lot of cool CE!

 

[britzen]

Hm, it didn't ask me for anything when I signed up for an account.

Try googling vetfolio free CE and registering from there? It didn't ask me for anything other than basically an email + basic info for the free CE, but did want me to make a real account if I clicked on other content that wasn't free.

Most of the sites want proof of vet/tech student status, that's the only one I've signed up for that didn't.

Glad the first site worked at least.

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[britzen]

VetFolio

VetFolio Online Learning

www.vetfolio.com

Don't click in the Learn More link - that will take you to the paid subscriptions page.

Scroll down to one of the "featured classes"
Click on the picture

For example: scroll down to the "Feline Vaccination Program" picture and click on it

Scroll down and click on Register Now

It only asked me for name, email, and phone # to register.

Then scroll down to "start course"

Hope that is clear enough to get you in. It let me start some of their free courses without registering for a real account.

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[BigCats]

Hm, it didn't ask me for anything when I signed up for an account.

Try googling vetfolio free CE and registering from there? It didn't ask me for anything other than basically an email + basic info for the free CE, but did want me to make a real account if I clicked on other content that wasn't free.

Most of the sites want proof of vet/tech student status, that's the only one I've signed up for that didn't.

Glad the first site worked at least.

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Oh, you're right! It wanted me to put in proof originally to get the free student membership but with just a regular account I'm able to access CE, just no subscription. Thanks!!

 

[Kota1000]

A suggestion I've seen on the APVMA Facebook group is to work on online certifications during this time, so you have something to add to your application even if you aren't able to build experience hours. Fear Free is one example, although unfortunately it isn't free for pre-vets.

Also, vetfolio made some of their Continuing Education courses for veterinarians free. Again, not sure all of what's in there and what level you are at vs. what level the content is being produced for, but maybe worth trying out:

VetFolio

VetFolio Online Learning

www.vetfolio.com

I registered for an account and it didn't seem to limit their site to vets/vet students only (some do).

Not as good as shadowing in a clinic, but if you're just sitting at home, worth exploring a bit.

I read through this post as it applies to a lot of things for me this summer. For the people that are doing certifications, will certifications through a veterinary CE site be considered veterinary experience? I have been looking for digital ways to get veterinary experience, with no luck. I have been self-studying from veterinary books, but I highly doubt that counts especially since no one can vouch for it except family.

 

[battie]

For the people that are doing certifications, will certifications through a veterinary CE site be considered veterinary experience?

This is a question for the schools. They probably wont all agree and this is a unique situation.

I have been self-studying from veterinary books, but I highly doubt that counts especially since no one can vouch for it except family.

Does not count.

 

[britzen]

I think that veterinary hours have to be done under the supervision of a veterinarian, so I doubt anything you do on your own would count under that category. I agree with Bats that you could ask the schools you are applying to about anything CE/certificate related, but that studying you do on your own won't count.

You can certainly mention anything that you do, whether official courses or just self-motivated studying, in your essays or elsewhere in your application (explanation statement, supplemental apps, etc as appropriate).

 

[eddie26]

I know from my current experience of trying to get an internship/job as an actual DVM (pending May 2020 if the world doesn't end‍), a lot of places are on hold for various reasons. Some don't want people coming in because it means more people, more exposure, etc. Other places that have a financial compensation for internships are debating if they will be able to afford the intern after this is all over. I got into vet school with ~600 vet hours and I got them during 2 summers. If you think the lack of hours might be a problem, I think if you explain that the lack of hours is due to COVID19, I would hope they would understand. I feel like there might have to be some sort of forgiveness for the next 4 years because of this mess.

you would hope they understand but I doubt they will. I applied last cycle even though my experience hours were low. I was advised by MSUCVM admissions to apply and explain my circumstances. They gave all sorts of examples of single dads and stuff with less experience or poor grades being admitted because they took their circumstances into account. I explained I had less than 200 hours due to being disabled and unable to do both school and volunteering at once. I also had to work for my parents for 2 summers due to financial trouble. I was told that if I explained that they would take it into account but was subsequently told I was rejected based on inexperience. I doubt if they have enough applicants with the hours that they will care about us lowly immunocompromised folk.