MD IMG Non US opt for PGY R or PGY 2

[PSL108]

Can an IMG Non US opt for PGY R or PGY 2 positions with a prior graduation in a foreign medical college?

If yes, then on the long run will it effect during board certification say anaesthesiology board or to practice in US?

If not applicable to those positions, why not?

TIA

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[GoSpursGo]

Not eligible. Because you need prior graduate medical education (ie a PGY-1 intern year) at a US institution.

 

[PSL108]

Thank you Sir. But even with a 3 year MD degree (that is after a 5 year MBBS) and a 3 year super speciality degree (within the speciality), amounting to 6 year clinical experience - still an IMG needs to do an intern year?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thank you Sir. But even with a 3 year MD degree (that is after a 5 year MBBS) and a 3 year super speciality degree (within the speciality), amounting to 6 year clinical experience - still an IMG needs to do an intern year?

Yes. Also anesthesiology is becoming competitive and thus increasingly unlikely as an FMG. Look into family medicine, internal medicine, paediatrics, emergency medicine

 

[Just D.O. it]

Thank you Sir. But even with a 3 year MD degree and a 3 year super speciality degree, amounting to 6 year clinical experience - still one needs to do an intern year?

Yes, any training from a foreign nation beyond the MD or its equivalent degree is not recognized or credited in the US. ALL post medical school training must be repeated for one to be eligible for US license. So any foreign physician, no matter how experienced or any extra diplomas or certifications back home, MUST begin here as a PGY-1 intern regardless.

 

[PSL108]

Thank you! Can a program have both Advanced PGY 2 and Intern PGY 1 positions?

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Thank you Sir. But even with a 3 year MD degree (that is after a 5 year MBBS) and a 3 year super speciality degree (within the speciality), amounting to 6 year clinical experience - still an IMG needs to do an intern year?

Unfortunately Yes. Applicants like you are more qualified than most other even from the Top 20 for PGY 1 from competency or experience. however, the requirement is very clear- graduate medical education (ie a PGY-1 intern year) at a US institution. However I will say, you will qualify for some most competitive residencies with great scores. many schools (even top ones) on and off will offer IMG for competitive residency like derm , ortho etc...

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Thank you! Can a program have both Advanced PGY 2 and Intern PGY 1 positions?

this answer depends on the specialty you want to apply. some specialty has created integrated programs. most categorical positions like Internal medicine, have intern year combined. more competitive, like derm may offer you a choice for pgy1 within the same institute or even outside one. within some competitive ones also many have become integrated programs to finish pgy 1 in the same institute.

 

[PSL108]

Unfortunately Yes. Applicants like you are more qualified than most other even from the Top 20 for PGY 1 from competency or experience. however, the requirement is very clear- graduate medical education (ie a PGY-1 intern year) at a US institution. However I will say, you will qualify for some most competitive residencies with great scores. many schools (even top ones) on and off will offer IMG for competitive residency like derm , ortho etc...

Can you tell me the chances of getting in with regards to Anaesthesia?

TIA

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You're asking a very vague question that is difficult to answer. The best data is in one of the NRMP data reports: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-IMG-2022_Final.pdf This one is focused on IMG's.

First, I assume you are a non-US IMG (i.e. you will need a visa here in the US). If I'm wrong about that, my apologies and the following will not be correct but you can get the correct data from the report.

In 2022, 62 non-US IMG's got an anesthesia spot and 85 did not - 42% got a spot. They had mean USMLE scores of 234/243 and 9 publications. 10% had PhD's. The data for Anesthesia starts on page 17 (page 22 of the PDF file)

No one can tell you what your chances really are. Will depend on your exam scores - which are very important, you need to study and do as well as you can on them, not just try to "pass" (although Step 1 is now Pass/Fail, so all you need to do is pass it). US clinical experience is highly valued and difficult to get. A visa definitely makes the process more difficult.

 

[PSL108]

You're asking a very vague question that is difficult to answer. The best data is in one of the NRMP data reports: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-IMG-2022_Final.pdf This one is focused on IMG's.

First, I assume you are a non-US IMG (i.e. you will need a visa here in the US). If I'm wrong about that, my apologies and the following will not be correct but you can get the correct data from the report.

In 2022, 62 non-US IMG's got an anesthesia spot and 85 did not - 42% got a spot. They had mean USMLE scores of 234/243 and 9 publications. 10% had PhD's. The data for Anesthesia starts on page 17 (page 22 of the PDF file)

No one can tell you what your chances really are. Will depend on your exam scores - which are very important, you need to study and do as well as you can on them, not just try to "pass" (although Step 1 is now Pass/Fail, so all you need to do is pass it). US clinical experience is highly valued and difficult to get. A visa definitely makes the process more difficult.

Thank you Sir/Madam!

Have gone through the data. What do they mean by ''Number of Work Experiences of International Medical Graduates''?
Is it specifically within the states of America? Does our work experience in our own country count as experience?
Also there is no specification on what counts as a volunteer experience.

TIA

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you Sir/Madam!

Have gone through the data. What do they mean by ''Number of Work Experiences of International Medical Graduates''?
Is it specifically within the states of America? Does our work experience in our own country count as experience?
Also there is no specification on what counts as a volunteer experience.

TIA

I wouldn't get too far into the weeds of the report (ie specific number of work or volunteer experiences) beyond what the exam scores show. Beyond that, you absolutely need US-based clinical experience, which as mentioned above is difficult to obtain. The point is not just that you know how to practice medicine, but also that you have some idea of how the US medical system works.

 

[PSL108]

I wouldn't get too far into the weeds of the report (ie specific number of work or volunteer experiences) beyond what the exam scores show. Beyond that, you absolutely need US-based clinical experience, which as mentioned above is difficult to obtain. The point is not just that you know how to practice medicine, but also that you have some idea of how the US medical system works.

Thank you Sir/Madam

Got it. For intake into only PGY-1 programs or categorical programs will US clinical experience matter? I am planning to give all 3 steps (will try to) before applying as I will have an MD degree in few months. Would that improve my chances to these programs if I don't have prior US clinical experience?

TIA

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you Sir/Madam

Got it. For intake into only PGY-1 programs or categorical programs will US clinical experience matter? I am planning to give all 3 steps (will try to) before applying as I will have an MD degree in few months. Would that improve my chances to these programs if I don't have prior US clinical experience?

TIA

Yes you need USCE

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thank you Sir/Madam

Got it. For intake into only PGY-1 programs or categorical programs will US clinical experience matter? I am planning to give all 3 steps (will try to) before applying as I will have an MD degree in few months. Would that improve my chances to these programs if I don't have prior US clinical experience?

TIA

Without US clinical experience there is no chance of matching

 

[PSL108]

Thank you!

Without US clinical experience there is no chance of matching

 

[PSL108]

Yes you need USCE

Thank you!

 

[PSL108]

Yes you need USCE

Thank you Sir/Madam

What are the USCE options for post MD Non-US IMG wanting to do Anaesthesiology residency in US in the coming future? I heard about observer-ships, any info on that? I am not eligible for electives as I am already doing my post graduation (MD) in Anaesthesiology in a foreign country.

TIA.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you Sir/Madam

What are the USCE options for post MD Non-US IMG wanting to do Anaesthesiology residency in US in the coming future? I heard about observer-ships, any info on that? I am not eligible for electives as I am already doing my post graduation (MD) in Anaesthesiology in a foreign country.

TIA.

The answer is likely observerships, and you'll need to find this information directly from individual institutions. There's no centralized listing so you likely just need to look around

 

[PSL108]

US Clinical Experience (USCE): What Counts and What Doesn't? | Match A Resident

Whether you’re a brand new International Medical Graduate (IMG) who is fresh out of medical school or a practicing doctor with 30 years under their belt, all IMGs must face the matter of US Clinical Experience (USCE). Out of the many factors you will have to consider for your residency...

blog.matcharesident.com

Sadly the above website (attached) content scathingly rejects that observerships are part of USCE. This is a lot to process given that plans were made and mails were sent. Can a faculty please respond to confirm if observerships are considered as part of USCE? Coz I don’t see there is any other way around it for Non US IMG with Post MD to get USCE. Thank you !

 

[GoSpursGo]

US Clinical Experience (USCE): What Counts and What Doesn't? | Match A Resident

Whether you’re a brand new International Medical Graduate (IMG) who is fresh out of medical school or a practicing doctor with 30 years under their belt, all IMGs must face the matter of US Clinical Experience (USCE). Out of the many factors you will have to consider for your residency...

blog.matcharesident.com

Sadly the above website (attached) content scathingly rejects that observerships are part of USCE. This is a lot to process given that plans were made and mails were sent. Can a faculty please respond to confirm if observerships are considered as part of USCE? Coz I don’t see there is any other way around it for Non US IMG with Post MD to get USCE. Thank you !

Observerships are not ideal, but as you note it is frequently all that non-US IMGs are able to get. If you get a good score on USMLEs, then as long as you have SOME amount of USCE you may get some attention.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agreed. There is no "offical" definition of USCE. Each program will assess your application and determine if you meet their standards. Some will have these published on their websites - i.e. whether observerships "count" or not. In general, the more competitive fields / programs are likely to have stricter requirements.

 

[PSL108]

Thank you. What all is included in the definition of work experience & volunteer experience ?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you. What all is included in the definition of work experience & volunteer experience ?

Work would be anything you're paid to do. Volunteer is anything you do for free.