IHS/PHS Pharmacists?

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spacecowgirl

spacecowgirl

in the bee-loud glade
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I just discovered this opportunity at APhA and sure wish I had heard about it earlier. I think it's too late now for me to apply for the SRCOSTEP (which gives you $2500/month plus benefits for your last year in school) but I am very interested in finding out more about these programs.

From what I have gathered so far, some locations are offering a $30K signing bonus for a 4-year commitment. Aside from that, high need areas will repay your student loans up to $20K/year. They also provide up to $4K/year to offset the tax implications of loan repayment; the minimum commitment is 2 years but you can continue as long as you want to pay off your loans. The base salary seems to be a lot lower, especially at first, but becomes very comparable after you've accrued experience. However aside from the tuition repayment benefits, you also get extra pay for BPS certification, non-taxable subsistence benefits ($175/mo), non-taxable housing allowance (depends on location and if you have dependents, ranges from $637-3135) and FREE health/dental. No premiums, deductibles or copays!

As for retirement, they offer contributory and non-contributory plans so you can draw 75% of your salary after retirement.

Sounds pretty great! Good pay, great benefits and helping an underserved population. Anyone know more about this or know anyone who is doing this? Am I missing obvious drawbacks (other than living in fairly remote rural areas, which doesn't bother me)? From the people I talked to at the Expo, you get to do a lot of clinical experience and less dispensing. It sounds like everything I want in a career...at least for now :laugh:
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spacecowgirl said:
I just discovered this opportunity at APhA and sure wish I had heard about it earlier. I think it's too late now for me to apply for the SRCOSTEP (which gives you $2500/month plus benefits for your last year in school) but I am very interested in finding out more about these programs.

From what I have gathered so far, some locations are offering a $30K signing bonus for a 4-year commitment. Aside from that, high need areas will repay your student loans up to $20K/year. They also provide up to $4K/year to offset the tax implications of loan repayment; the minimum commitment is 2 years but you can continue as long as you want to pay off your loans. The base salary seems to be a lot lower, especially at first, but becomes very comparable after you've accrued experience. However aside from the tuition repayment benefits, you also get extra pay for BPS certification, non-taxable subsistence benefits ($175/mo), non-taxable housing allowance (depends on location and if you have dependents, ranges from $637-3135) and FREE health/dental. No premiums, deductibles or copays!

As for retirement, they offer contributory and non-contributory plans so you can draw 75% of your salary after retirement.

Sounds pretty great! Good pay, great benefits and helping an underserved population. Anyone know more about this or know anyone who is doing this? Am I missing obvious drawbacks (other than living in fairly remote rural areas, which doesn't bother me)? From the people I talked to at the Expo, you get to do a lot of clinical experience and less dispensing. It sounds like everything I want in a career...at least for now :laugh:
Click to expand...

I was looking into the program the IHS has for p3s and p4s too. It seems like a pretty good deal (and there are a lot of sites in the northwest, where I want to be). I'm just worried that the pay is TOO low- isn't it in the $40,000 range? I suppose that with all the other benefits it may come out even in the end. I suppose that I have a while to wait until I can even make these decisions though.
 
The info I got from PHS said that with less than 2 years service, your monthly base pay is $3125 vs $7917 based on a $95K salary in the private sector. However this means you pay less taxes because you are in a lower tax bracket ($406/month federal taxes in IHS vs $1421/month on the private salary). Once you add in the nontaxable housing allowance and food allowance (not to mention the cost of insurance which isn't accounted for in this table) the take home pay for a new RPh in IHS is $3525-5474 (depends entirely on your housing allowance) per month and $4779 for the private sector. Add $20K/year in tuition repayment that essentially adds another $1700/month to your take-home pay (or rather subtracts it from the private sector pay) closing the gap even more. Not having to pay medical or dental adds another few hundred a month too.

I plan to talk to a recruiter soon, when I have time...haha. To see if I have all my facts straight and find out more about the different sites. I'll pass on what I find out.


ETA: I looked again and there is a $75/month deduction from the private sector wage for medical benefits so it is taken into account in the figures I posted previously. Sorry about that.
 
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What does PHS stand for?

We have a couple of professors that did IHS and they absolutely loved it!
 
pharmagirl said:
What does PHS stand for?

We have a couple of professors that did IHS and they absolutely loved it! It's definitely something I would consider if I was younger
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public health service
 
Anyone know what the work schedule looks like? is it a 5 day-work week 8 hours per day or is it like some chains 10-12 hours work week for less days per week?
 
Looks like in the IHS, the payscale looks like this:
GS-09: $56,940-$68,586
GS-11: $62,634-$76,728
 
If I don't do the pharmacology thing, I'm going to think hard about the PHS. Retire at age 45.....uh....yeah. Those prison jobs seem pretty damn interesting.
 
Personally, I don't think the locales are THAT remote.

Just go to usajobs.gov (which is a great resource for jobs, btw) and do a search for "Pharmacist Indian". Tuscon, AZ is a locale....along with some towns not too far away like Sells, AZ which is is 60 miles from Tuscon. There is one is Salem, OR and Billings, MT, too.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
Personally, I don't think the locales are THAT remote.

Just go to usajobs.gov (which is a great resource for jobs, btw) and do a search for "Pharmacist Indian". Tuscon, AZ is a locale....along with some towns not too far away like Sells, AZ which is is 60 miles from Tuscon. There is one is Salem, OR and Billings, MT, too.
Click to expand...

I promise you that the New Mexico locations are in bumf**k nowhere.

yes there is a site in Albuquerque proper and a couple within an hour or two, but then there are some that are 4+ hours from a decent town with a commercial airport.
 
njac said:
I promise you that the New Mexico locations are in bumf**k nowhere.

yes there is a site in Albuquerque proper and a couple within an hour or two, but then there are some that are 4+ hours from a decent town with a commercial airport.
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4 hours to a national/international airport? That's more or less my childhood. Really, nowhere in the country is "remote" as I think of remote, save parts of Alaska. 4 hours is nothing. Give me a book on tape and a 32 oz soda and I'm fine.
 
Caverject said:
yeah, thats to be a government employee pharmacist, not an active duty officer
Click to expand...

Hey Caverject,

you seem to know a lot about PHS and pharmacy in the government sectors.. I don't really know much about all those different active duty,uniformed officers, commission's corps.. all those are just words to me. Do you think you can shine some light, or anyone else for that matter...
 
If you work for the PHS (or in military pharmacy), you are a commissioned officer. It's all organized like the military. You wear a uniform and start out being paid and ranked as an "O-3" Lieutenant (plus "bonus pay" to bring it up to a competitive salary.) You get the perks of a military officer, too. You can get free travel as a hop-along on military flights, you can shop at commissaries, you get retirement benefits after 20 years of service (50% of last earned salary a year paid to you if you retire after 20 years, 80% (I think..) after 30 years), you get healthcare through TRICARE. You also get cost-of-living pay that isn't taxable.

It's actually a pretty sweet gig. The pay sucks for the first 3-4 years, but after that it is comparable to private sector pay and, after a decade or so, you actually get paid more than in private sector. Once you advance to the ranks of O-5 (Commander) or, if you are really good, O-6 (Captain), you get paid damn well.

I am strongly considering the Bureau of Prisons.

Here is a nice little pamphlet.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
If you work for the PHS (or in military pharmacy), you are a commissioned officer. It's all organized like the military. You wear a uniform and start out being paid and ranked as an "O-3" Lieutenant (plus "bonus pay" to bring it up to a competitive salary.) You get the perks of a military officer, too. You can get free travel as a hop-along on military flights, you can shop at commissaries, you get retirement benefits after 20 years of service (50% of last earned salary a year paid to you if you retire after 20 years, 80% (I think..) after 30 years), you get healthcare through TRICARE. You also get cost-of-living pay that isn't taxable.

It's actually a pretty sweet gig. The pay sucks for the first 3-4 years, but after that it is comparable to private sector pay and, after a decade or so, you actually get paid more than in private sector. Once you advance to the ranks of O-5 (Commander) or, if you are really good, O-6 (Captain), you get paid damn well.

I am strongly considering the Bureau of Prisons.

Here is a nice little pamphlet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!!

how do can you go from lieutenant to commander/captain? is it just the years of experience or does it have to be a 'promotion" just like pharmacist/district manager type of deal?

also, what does 0-3 mean? is it 0-3 years as a lieutenant or it doesn't have anything to do with years of service?

is PHS considered active duty?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
If you work for the PHS (or in military pharmacy), you are a commissioned officer. It's all organized like the military. You wear a uniform and start out being paid and ranked as an "O-3" Lieutenant (plus "bonus pay" to bring it up to a competitive salary.) You get the perks of a military officer, too. You can get free travel as a hop-along on military flights, you can shop at commissaries, you get retirement benefits after 20 years of service (50% of last earned salary a year paid to you if you retire after 20 years, 80% (I think..) after 30 years), you get healthcare through TRICARE. You also get cost-of-living pay that isn't taxable.

It's actually a pretty sweet gig. The pay sucks for the first 3-4 years, but after that it is comparable to private sector pay and, after a decade or so, you actually get paid more than in private sector. Once you advance to the ranks of O-5 (Commander) or, if you are really good, O-6 (Captain), you get paid damn well.

I am strongly considering the Bureau of Prisons.

Here is a nice little pamphlet.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the info, the pamphlet answered a lot of my questions. I did an IPPE rotation with the Oregon prison system and it was interesting, the pharmacies for the prisons in Oregon are mail order pharmacies and the pharmacists only visit the actually prisons a few times a year to check medication room and make sure everything is running right. There is one pharmacy on the east side of the state and one on the west side of the state. IHS really interests me, need to look into JRCOSTEP.
 
Idesiretosling said:
Thanks a lot for the info, the pamphlet answered a lot of my questions. I did an IPPE rotation with the Oregon prison system and it was interesting, the pharmacies for the prisons in Oregon are mail order pharmacies and the pharmacists only visit the actually prisons a few times a year to check medication room and make sure everything is running right. There is one pharmacy on the east side of the state and one on the west side of the state. IHS really interests me, need to look into JRCOSTEP.
Click to expand...

With the BoP, pharmacists are all on site and are beginning to take in a more clinical role. I spoke with a few of the pharmacists that worked at the local prisons and they seemed excited by it.
 
greatdeals225 said:
Thanks for the info!!

how do can you go from lieutenant to commander/captain? is it just the years of experience or does it have to be a 'promotion" just like pharmacist/district manager type of deal?
Click to expand...

It's based on performace/participation in various things. Merit, more or less. It's not automatic.

also, what does 0-3 mean? is it 0-3 years as a lieutenant or it doesn't have anything to do with years of service?
Click to expand...

Officer pay grade 3. Just like for enlisted people it's, say, E-2.

is PHS considered active duty?
Click to expand...

"Active duty" just means that you are working for them as a commissioned officer.
 
there is a big difference between being "active duty" and a government employee. You can do both with the PHS just like any other military branch. The big difference is as an active duty pharmacist, you can be sent anywhere. Just keep in mind, the PHS rarely moves people around
 
Caverject said:
there is a big difference between being "active duty" and a government employee. You can do both with the PHS just like any other military branch. The big difference is as an active duty pharmacist, you can be sent anywhere. Just keep in mind, the PHS rarely moves people around
Click to expand...

o wow... do you know if the pay is the same for active duty and govt employee? i'm guessing not.. i find some salary tables online.. but the categories does'nt mean anything to me....:p
 
greatdeals225 said:
o wow... do you know if the pay is the same for active duty and govt employee? i'm guessing not.. i find some salary tables online.. but the categories does'nt mean anything to me....:p
Click to expand...
The pay is not the same...you get paid more being a government employee but you get a lot more benefits being an active duty officer
 
Caverject said:
there is a big difference between being "active duty" and a government employee. You can do both with the PHS just like any other military branch. The big difference is as an active duty pharmacist, you can be sent anywhere. Just keep in mind, the PHS rarely moves people around
Click to expand...

I was told that "Active Duty" in the PHS just meant that you were on their roster as a commissioned officer. For instance, if you go here and choose "List all active duty pharmacists" from the drop down menu, it lists all of the pharmacists they have working for them in the country. Including the ones I know that work around Morgantown. I thought the whole "moving you around" thing was mostly a military pharmacy thing and not really a PHS thing. I could be wrong, I'm just going by what I was told.
 
Caverject said:
The pay is not the same...you get paid more being a government employee but you get a lot more benefits being an active duty officer
Click to expand...

do you know if there's a website or a chart/tables that compares active duty vs government employee? or just like a job description/benefits description or brochures/information we can get? i went to www.phs.gov.. but i guess the website there has really general information
 
Man, wait a minute....are we talking active duty as a synonym for being a commissioned officer and then in comparison that whole "civil service" thing?
 
greatdeals225 said:
do you know if there's a website or a chart/tables that compares active duty vs government employee? or just like a job description/benefits description or brochures/information we can get? i went to www.phs.gov.. but i guess the website there has really general information
Click to expand...

If you do it, you'll want to go the commisioned officer route, IMO. The benefits are waaay better. $30,000 for 4 years in the beginning? If you do want to go the civil service route, you might want to look into the VA, too...
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
If you do it, you'll want to go the commisioned officer route, IMO. The benefits are waaay better. $30,000 for 4 years in the beginning? If you do want to go the civil service route, you might want to look into the VA, too...
Click to expand...

what's the difference between being a commissioned officer and the civil service route? :p.... do both require us to be called for 'active duty'?
 
greatdeals225 said:
what's the difference between being a commissioned officer and the civil service route? :p.... do both require us to be called for 'active duty'?
Click to expand...

"Active Duty" means you are a commissioned officer with the PHS. Otherwise you are a civil serviceman, or whatever. I don't know anybody working in a PHS facility that isn't a commissioned officer so I have little idea what it's all about.
 
Active duty = commissioned officer

You are NOT active duty when you are a civil service/government employee. WVU posted a good chart between the two...
 
BTW the commissioned corps of USPHS is now paying 15K annually for pharmacist retention bonus...that's basically your 401K paid for each year.
Can't beat that.
 
to make sure I get this straight,

commissioned corps = active duty officer = uniformed services = can be deployed to war areas = great benefit (no cost health insurance, ....)


Government employee = civil service = no deployment = less benefits (health insurance at cost...)

so if I am correct, working for civil service is not that great compared as their benefits are not that much different from retail....
 
A "deployment" for the USPHS pharmacy officer is conus i.e. katrina type incidents....there is always a potential for oconus deployment but highly unlikely for combat or war zone....more likley to be stationed on the mercy or comfort for humanitarian missions
 
They aren't going to deploy PHS pharmacists to active warzones unless nuclear winter hits and all the pharmacists in all of the branches of the military die first. In other words, no, you aren't going to be deployed to Iraq.
 
Parsox said:
BTW the commissioned corps of USPHS is now paying 15K annually for pharmacist retention bonus...that's basically your 401K paid for each year.
Can't beat that.
Click to expand...

Is that separate from the 30k/4 year sign on bonus? If so, f' it, I might join up right now. Sadly the job opening I really wanted is gone. (Prison at Fort Dix...Philly suburb.)
 
Parsox said:
BTW the commissioned corps of USPHS is now paying 15K annually for pharmacist retention bonus...that's basically your 401K paid for each year.
Can't beat that.
Click to expand...

I think IHS has a Loan Repayment Program where for each year you work they will pay back up to 20,000 in loans per year. Not sure if they are still doing it or not but something to ask about.
http://www.ihs.gov/jobscareerdevelop/DHPS/LRP/lrpsc.asp

It all sounds like a pretty sweet deal...Clinical practice, they pay back your loans, retirement in 20-30 years, 30 vacation days/year plus holidays and the pay is close to the private sector after few years.
I wonder if there is overtime work available...

I am sure I will change my mind few times over next couple years, nice to have the info though, I never really considered working for the Feds before.
 
Idesiretosling said:
I think IHS has a Loan Repayment Program where for each year you work they will pay back up to 20,000 in loans per year. Not sure if they are still doing it or not but something to ask about.
http://www.ihs.gov/jobscareerdevelop/DHPS/LRP/lrpsc.asp

It all sounds like a pretty sweet deal...Clinical practice, they pay back your loans, retirement in 20-30 years, 30 vacation days/year plus holidays and the pay is close to the private sector after few years.
I wonder if there is overtime work available...

I am sure I will change my mind few times over next couple years, nice to have the info though, I never really considered working for the Feds before.
Click to expand...

You will work plenty of overtime, although this will vary greatly by where you are stationed, who is in command (The CIC makes a HUGE difference on this one), and the type of work you will be doing - but let me make this clear - you will NEVER be paid extra for your overtime. That is one of the fundamental principles the services work from - You are trading your 'service' for pay - not 'hours' for pay like in the civilian sector.

You really have to understand that the joining a uniformed service (which the PHS / IHS is one of) is not like having a regular job. You are bound by a separate and more confining constitution known as the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" AKA the UCMJ.

To highlight this difference - if you are told (= command) to be at work at 0700, and you stroll in at 0800 - you have just disobeyed a direct order. This is cause for a 'write up' at a regular job - in the service, this is breaking the law - Which is punishable under the UCMJ. Think minor felony... Severe? Maybe, but discipline is something that all services require - and if you do not have it, your time in the service will not be an easy one.

All in all - I enjoyed my time in the service, and I am seriously looking into serving again - but everyone should be WELL aware of what it means to SERVE. You do NOT belong to yourself - your life will be dictated by the needs of the service, and that does not sit well with everyone.

~above~
 
aboveliquidice said:
You will work plenty of overtime, although this will vary greatly by where you are stationed, who is in command (The CIC makes a HUGE difference on this one), and the type of work you will be doing - but let me make this clear - you will NEVER be paid extra for your overtime. That is one of the fundamental principles the services work from - You are trading your 'service' for pay - not 'hours' for pay like in the civilian sector.

You really have to understand that the joining a uniformed service (which the PHS / IHS is one of) is not like having a regular job. You are bound by a separate and more confining constitution known as the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" AKA the UCMJ.

To highlight this difference - if you are told (= command) to be at work at 0700, and you stroll in at 0800 - you have just disobeyed a direct order. This is cause for a 'write up' at a regular job - in the service, this is breaking the law - Which is punishable under the UCMJ. Think minor felony... Severe? Maybe, but discipline is something that all services require - and if you do not have it, your time in the service will not be an easy one.

All in all - I enjoyed my time in the service, and I am seriously looking into serving again - but everyone should be WELL aware of what it means to SERVE. You do NOT belong to yourself - your life will be dictated by the needs of the service, and that does not sit well with everyone.

~above~
Click to expand...


WOW, so it's just like being in grade-school all over again....except the punishment is much more severe... interesting...
 
greatdeals225 said:
WOW, so it's just like being in grade-school all over again....except the punishment is much more severe... interesting...
Click to expand...

not getting paid for overtime really sux....
 
I visited a IHS site last semester. The DOP told me that no one goes the PHS route because the pay sucks... All of their pharmacists were "tribal hires", which meant they were hired directly by the tribe that ran the medical facility. She didn't give me specifics on salary differences, but she did say the benefits were similar, and you were still eligible for loan repayment. That was in Oklahoma.......
 
avgjoe1977 said:
I visited a IHS site last semester. The DOP told me that no one goes the PHS route because the pay sucks... All of their pharmacists were "tribal hires", which meant they were hired directly by the tribe that ran the medical facility. She didn't give me specifics on salary differences, but she did say the benefits were similar, and you were still eligible for loan repayment. That was in Oklahoma.......
Click to expand...

so do you mean we don't go thru PHS to be hired to work in the IHS but rather go directly to the IHS site and apply there to be hired by the medical facility running the it?
 
don't believe everything you hear on the internet...especially if it's from someone not directly related to it
 
avgjoe1977 said:
I visited a IHS site last semester. The DOP told me that no one goes the PHS route because the pay sucks... All of their pharmacists were "tribal hires", which meant they were hired directly by the tribe that ran the medical facility. She didn't give me specifics on salary differences, but she did say the benefits were similar, and you were still eligible for loan repayment. That was in Oklahoma.......
Click to expand...

Links... Sources... 1st thing = The IHS is a SINGLE portion of the PHS - so saying that no one goes that route makes very little sense.

It is important to note that the LRP (Loan Repayment Program) is specific to the IHS. Is that what you were referring to???

I would like to know more about "Direct Tribal Hires"... and how they would be eligible for the LRP - Considering that the LRP is only for those in the IHS, that are at a high priority (needy) site, that have applied for the LRP. Furthermore, there is a limited amount of funds, and not everyone will be accepted.

It sounds like you are talking about a government job - which is a GS paid employee - which does NOT have comparable benefits (most notably health)

Please elaborate on your post... else do not post simple hearsay...

~above~
 
avgjoe1977 said:
I visited a IHS site last semester. The DOP told me that no one goes the PHS route because the pay sucks... All of their pharmacists were "tribal hires", which meant they were hired directly by the tribe that ran the medical facility. She didn't give me specifics on salary differences, but she did say the benefits were similar, and you were still eligible for loan repayment. That was in Oklahoma.......
Click to expand...
I think somebody is full of crap...either you or your friend
 
I've worked for a number of years at FDA and have worked with a number of PHS Officers. First they are a "Uniformed Service" which means that they are not miltarized (ie: can't carry weapons). They carry a rank that is based on training and experience. Many PHS Officers have a actual rank and a temporary rank which is based upon your assignment. You recieve all the standard military benefits and retirement. But the big difference is that you are able to stay in one location or agency for your whole career. The only comment I can make a long time Army Reservist is that alot of their officers are not very military. In the military you salute rank-I've seen PHS officers fail to return salutes. Since they are an all officer corp majority of the military have to salute.
 
aboveliquidice said:
You really have to understand that the joining a uniformed service (which the PHS / IHS is one of) is not like having a regular job. You are bound by a separate and more confining constitution known as the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" AKA the UCMJ.
Click to expand...

This is inaccurate, for the most part.

UCMJ applies where appropriate depending on the Bureau a pharmacist or other CO (commissioned officer) is working. It actually does NOT usually apply to USPHS officers. If you're stationed with the Coast Guard- yes, UCMJ totally applies and you may be subject to Court martial wrt the UCMJ (that's how the USCG works, and you're bound by that law). If you're stationed on an Indian Reservation, or Health an Human Services, NIH, FDA, BOP, (you get the picture), etc, you're subject to Federal Law and will be tried in Federal court where necessary. There are legal responsibilities in all avenues of pharmacy, be it community pharmacy, hospital pharmacy, Federal pharmacy, military, etc, and each has pertinent systems of justice, rules, and regulations. But yes, you're required to conduct yourself appropriately as would a Uniformed officer.

The UCMJ is not some 'boogeyman' of regulations. It is quite needed and applicable in appropriate circumstances. But even in the military practice of pharmacy, I don't exactly see your point that it could be 'confining' unless you're doing something unethical, beyond the scope of pharmacy, and obviously wrong. I don't see how this issue even makes the list of possible Pros and Cons for most students and new practitioners embarking on pharmacy careers...
 
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