if 275 people applied for 75 spots, what do the other 200 end up doing?

[johnster3982]

?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dry dre]

?

Maybe they stayed in their respective home countries?

Many stats regarding residency applications are skewed by the large number of FMGs applying (I don't know to which 275/75 you are referring). Some "competative" specialties like EM still match ~96% of the US grads who apply only to that specialty.

 

[DrDre']

THe OP is referring to the approx number of people who apply to integrated plastics every year and how many match. People always talk about Derm but integrated is probably as tough or tougher. These are not FMGs, they are US 4th years, primarily, who have 240s, AOA, great letters and research. It is an exceedingly tough match.

 

[carrigallen]

The 275 are US seniors. However, it is not as competitive as it seems.

I think it is important to remember that a good percentage of applicants double match for general surgery and integrated plastics.

After all, both gensurg and integplastic are routes to the same specialty, although the gensurg + fellowship path is somewhat longer. Through ERAS, applicants can apply to both, while remaining true to their future goal of becoming a plastic surgeon.

So I think the numbers are not as competitive as they appear. How many of the 275 are just trying their luck with the Integrated match, with 5-yr General Surg programs as 'backups'*? Maybe 100, 200?

* (GS became pretty competitive last year, so 'backup' may not be the best word.)

I will qualify the information above with an additional statement: plastics does produce a HUGE number of applicants who end up unmatched. I think that many US Seniors go through the process without much guidance, or without help from sites like SDN!

If you do choose to apply Plastics only (without doing a double match for GS), I have heard that it is important to have research lined up as a backup plan. It is undesirable to be stuck doing a surgery internship while you are reapplying...especially since your chances of cutting in for a PGY2 may be slim now.

 

[DrDre']

Excellent point Carri.
However, the subspecialty fellowship after gsurg is also extremely competitive with a match rate around 33%, I believe.
Dr. Oliver posted on this in March. In other words, it is tough to get into early or late. You don't want to go gsurg for plastics unless you would be happy not matching then either.

Many who attempt to match integrated actually use gas or EM as a back-up because they do not want to put in the work of going thru gsurg.

 

[ludakris]

You will notice that plastics surgery is not performed only by those who have been to med school, accepted to a plastics residency etc. There are other ways to get on this career path, Oral Max is a good way, ENT and sometimes even dentists will end up doing plastics. The field is so unregulated, and so many people think its do or die. Careers in plastics dont have to be make or brake based on ones residency. Yet I know that Medical students are over-anxious, neurotic, control freaks that cant stand not knowing the certainty of their future.

By the way can a med student get into a Oral Max residency or do they have to go to dental school??

 

[Celiac Plexus]

You will notice that plastics surgery is not performed only by those who have been to med school, accepted to a plastics residency etc. There are other ways to get on this career path, Oral Max is a good way, ENT and sometimes even dentists will end up doing plastics. The field is so unregulated, and so many people think its do or die. Careers in plastics dont have to be make or brake based on ones residency. Yet I know that Medical students are over-anxious, neurotic, control freaks that cant stand not knowing the certainty of their future.

By the way can a med student get into a Oral Max residency or do they have to go to dental school??

I think that you're referring to craniofacial plastic surgery... "plastic & reconstructive surgery" entails much more. E.g. - you won't find an OMFS type doing any free flaps, hand, breast, abdominal, etc...

 

[toofache32]

...Oral Max is a good way, ENT and sometimes even dentists will end up doing plastics....By the way can a med student get into a Oral Max residency or do they have to go to dental school??

All oral max guys are dentists by training, the MD is optional. So, yes, you have to go to dental school. It's a dental specialty and 95% of your referrals are from other dentists. Med school (at least mine) teaches absolutely nothing about occlusion or dental problems.

There are 2 programs I know of who have taken MDs into their 6-year residencies, but it turns into 7 because you have to do 3 years of dental school instead of 2 years of med school that regular OMFS guys do.

 

[River13]

Louisville's OMFS residency accepts med school graduates after 1 year Gen surg internship...its 5 years after the internship (2 dental), 6 years total...the same as most dual-doctorate OMFS programs

Sorry that's sorta off the thread subject

 

[bobby6]

Louisville's OMFS residency accepts med school graduates after 1 year Gen surg internship...its 5 years after the internship (2 dental), 6 years total...the same as most dual-doctorate OMFS programs

Sorry that's sorta off the thread subject

I don't why any MD grad would even consider the OMFS route. There is definate overlap between ENT and OMFS but ENTs definately have a broader scope of practice. ENTs treat Maxillofacial factures and trauma, oral cancer resection and reconstruction, sinus and skull base surgery. It is routine for ENTs in Academic institutions to do free flaps, microvascular and mohs reconstruction. Facial Plastics is a well recognized subsubspecialty of ENT (the official name is Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery). The Amercian Board of Medical Specialties allows the Board of Otolaryngology to award subspecialty certification of Plastic Surgery within the Head and Neck.

However as an ENT, you wouldn't pull wisdom teeth or do any dental stuff which is fine by me. I think for an OMFS to perform facial plastic surgery at this time is still pretty controversial. I heard from an OMFS resident at Houston that in some states, OMFS cannot cut skin without the combined MD degree.

 

[toofache32]

There is definate overlap between ENT and OMFS but ENTs definately have a broader scope of practice. ENTs treat Maxillofacial factures and trauma, oral cancer resection and reconstruction, sinus and skull base surgery. It is routine for ENTs in Academic institutions to do free flaps, microvascular and mohs reconstruction.

I'm not sure I agree with ENTs practicing a broader scope. In the old days this was true, but modern OMFS training encompasses a much broader scope than in the past. I agree that ENT does more in the areas you listed (in general), although my OMFS program does 5-10 mohs reconstructions each week and we do more face trauma than ENT & Plastics because we do all mandibles and associated injuries in addition to the rest of the face. But these procedures are not the only ones performed on the head & neck. While the current trend is for ENT to do much more in the area of cancer and skull base, OMFS does much more in the area of craniofacial deformities, orthognathic surgery, pre-prosthetic surgery, and TMJ surgery. Probably because these all require dental training. My guess is that ENTs are generally not exposed to these procedures because med students don't normally rotate through OMFS where these procedures are done. And they really have no reason to.

I agree that an MD grad is better off going to ENT than OMFS because it just seems like a headache having to go to dental school and learn general dentistry during your residency.

 

[omsres]

I think that you're referring to craniofacial plastic surgery... "plastic & reconstructive surgery" entails much more. E.g. - you won't find an OMFS type doing any free flaps, hand, breast, abdominal, etc...

I agree that there is more to plastics than the cosmetic surgeries, But the scope of OMS is much broader than most medical and dental professionals realize. At my program we routinely do head and neck cancer including thyroid and parathyroids. We also reconstruct with free flaps, mostly radial forearm and fibula. I will agree that all oms programs are not created equal but it is within our scope to do such procedures. There are also facial cosmetic, Head and neck cancer, craniofacial reconstruction, trauma and pediatric oms subspecialities via fellowships.

 

[GSresident]

Thats pretty awesome that they have you guys doing thyroids and parathyroids as OMFS. I just got out of the OR with a thyroid. My best friend is OMFS and he does mostly dental implants, wisdom teeth, jaw realignment stuff etc. He wasn't really trained to do the other stuff, although he did do a cleft lip in honduras. I guess I have no idea how broad the scope of an OMFS practice can be.

 

[bobby6]

"my OMFS program does 5-10 mohs reconstructions each week"

"At my program we routinely do head and neck cancer including thyroid and parathyroids. We also reconstruct with free flaps, mostly radial forearm and fibula."

Wow those most be awesome OS programs. I think thats the exception rather than the rule. Either those programs have weak or nonexistent ENT/plastics programs. I worked with the OS guys in Houston which is supposely the biggest OS program in the nation with 5 residents, they didn't do any Mohs, free flaps, or anything the realm of cosmetics such rhinos or blephros. I doubt that even most strong ENT/Plastics program get 10 Mohs a week. I've heard though that some OS programs in Canada do free flaps however.

 

[bobby6]

Let me add that 5 residents each year at houston with about 25-30 residents total.

 

[toofache32]

"my OMFS program does 5-10 mohs reconstructions each week"

Wow those most be awesome OS programs. I think thats the exception rather than the rule. Either those programs have weak or nonexistent ENT/plastics programs. I worked with the OS guys in Houston which is supposely the biggest OS program in the nation with 5 residents, they didn't do any Mohs, free flaps, or anything the realm of cosmetics such rhinos or blephros. I doubt that even most strong ENT/Plastics program get 10 Mohs a week. I've heard though that some OS programs in Canada do free flaps however.

I should add that these Mohs recons are at 2 different hospitals we cover, so it probably averages 3-5 per week for each one. They're a lot of fun in my opinion. My program doesn't do too much cancer. I'm very familiar with OmsRes's program because I did a rotation there. I was amazed at the volume of cancer going through that place. The director trained at my program, then did a cancer fellowship and runs their program. Sometimes I wish we did more cancer, but then again I'm glad to be home by 5 most days.

I'm not sure how this turned in to an OMFS type thread...sorry.