Hi everyone, this is my first ever post here. I made my decision to commit to my med school a few days ago and I have been regretting it every day since. I chose to go to a cheaper med school that would theoretically reduce my total debt after my 4 years by about 150k. However, the school is new and not that well established with practically no one matching into the competitive specialties that I am considering (neuro, derm, surgery). I have been losing sleep over it and the initial happiness and looking forward to the future I felt when I was planning to commit to my top choice is now gone. I don't know who else to really ask for advice other than on SDN. I feel like I'm trapped and won't do well in med school to be competitive for residencies. Does anyone have advice about how to get out of this mindset? I kick myself over it everyday.
I regret choosing the wrong med school.
- Thread starter bentobear
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If you’re seriously interested in competitive specialties, reach out to potential faculty mentors at your new school now. There may not be a ton you can do before school starts, but at least making connections and coming up with a plan for once you get on the ground may help you feel reassured that at least you’re going to put yourself in as good a spot as possible. Furthermore, you may not wind up being interested in those specialties after all—in which case you will definitely be glad to graduate with less debt.
There is a good chance you made the right call, and even if it was a slight mistake you still will have opportunities to prove yourself
There is a good chance you made the right call, and even if it was a slight mistake you still will have opportunities to prove yourself
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Im sorry you’re having these feelings, but they are pretty commonplace. I predict that in about one year you will be very, very thankful that you’re not 150k more in debt for medical school. After the smoke from the admissions cycle and starting med school clears, I think people are happiest if they are able to find community and support where they are, and work to have as healthy of a work life balance as possible.
As for matching, that you are interested in 3 radically different specialties simultaneously tells me that you have a lot of room to discover what you actually want out of your career. Your mind will likely change several times. The good news is setting yourself up to match is mostly on you. School can help, resources can help, but it’s mostly on you. Keep an open mind, and although this might be controversial I always say that the best thing that can happen to you in med school is discovering you will be happier with “less” (less competitive specialty, less work, less money) because other things matter to you more. IMO more people should be thinking “how the hell do i exit the rat race as soon as possible” rather than “how can I match neurosurgery at ucsf” if the objective is happiness. If happiness means neurosurgery to you, that’s great! But best to find that out sooner rather than later.
Luckily, step 1 is pass/fail so you dont need to jump on the boards grind right away. I’d suggest exploring during your first few months of med school by shadowing and talking to people in various specialties that seem interesting. This will help you identify your interests and also potential mentors for research or other projects. Be the best med student you can be, and after you pass Step 1 you can focus on CK and performing well during rotations to stand out for the match. Won’t be an easy road because med school is tough, but you will in a much better position life-wise after the very, very short 4 years are over, trust me.
As for matching, that you are interested in 3 radically different specialties simultaneously tells me that you have a lot of room to discover what you actually want out of your career. Your mind will likely change several times. The good news is setting yourself up to match is mostly on you. School can help, resources can help, but it’s mostly on you. Keep an open mind, and although this might be controversial I always say that the best thing that can happen to you in med school is discovering you will be happier with “less” (less competitive specialty, less work, less money) because other things matter to you more. IMO more people should be thinking “how the hell do i exit the rat race as soon as possible” rather than “how can I match neurosurgery at ucsf” if the objective is happiness. If happiness means neurosurgery to you, that’s great! But best to find that out sooner rather than later.
Luckily, step 1 is pass/fail so you dont need to jump on the boards grind right away. I’d suggest exploring during your first few months of med school by shadowing and talking to people in various specialties that seem interesting. This will help you identify your interests and also potential mentors for research or other projects. Be the best med student you can be, and after you pass Step 1 you can focus on CK and performing well during rotations to stand out for the match. Won’t be an easy road because med school is tough, but you will in a much better position life-wise after the very, very short 4 years are over, trust me.
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it's not feeling short at the moment
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If the other school hasn’t rescinded their offer, you could potentially change at this moment. I don’t think the deadline is totally rigid.
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Disclaimer: Obviously take this with a grain of salt.
I go against the grain here. Most people on SDN seem to go with the 'cheaper is usually a better choice'. Depending on the situation, I often disagree with this.
I went to a top 30 school and applied derm. I struggled a bit to find good research opportunities and went with one that didn't work out very well. I applied derm. I had a rough time, but made it through. Other factors could have been involved and likely were, but optimizing chances if going for a competitive specialty is baseline in my opinion.
From the perspective of someone who is an internist or pediatrician, cheaper probably is better. However if someone is thinking a more competitive specialty or even unsure and has a choice between a more expensive school with better opportunities and clout vs a cheaper school with lesser opportunities and clout, I usually would recommend the former.
While you can never truly know your parallel self, I feel you just have to think of it as investing in setting yourself up for best chance at success. A parallel self going to expensive vs cheap could very well end up in the same hospitalist position with less money to pay back. I feel that chance of ending up in a similar position is less likely in the case of something like neurosurgery or plastics.
I go against the grain here. Most people on SDN seem to go with the 'cheaper is usually a better choice'. Depending on the situation, I often disagree with this.
I went to a top 30 school and applied derm. I struggled a bit to find good research opportunities and went with one that didn't work out very well. I applied derm. I had a rough time, but made it through. Other factors could have been involved and likely were, but optimizing chances if going for a competitive specialty is baseline in my opinion.
From the perspective of someone who is an internist or pediatrician, cheaper probably is better. However if someone is thinking a more competitive specialty or even unsure and has a choice between a more expensive school with better opportunities and clout vs a cheaper school with lesser opportunities and clout, I usually would recommend the former.
While you can never truly know your parallel self, I feel you just have to think of it as investing in setting yourself up for best chance at success. A parallel self going to expensive vs cheap could very well end up in the same hospitalist position with less money to pay back. I feel that chance of ending up in a similar position is less likely in the case of something like neurosurgery or plastics.
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1. Nothing has happened since you accepted the spot. Nothing has been done to alter your ability to obtain these residencies
2. if 100 people in a class wants to family medicine and no one wants to do surgery, so they don't match anyone for surgery, does this mean people can't match into a competitive specialty? Match list isnt an end all. Neuro for example, you could easily do that from any US med school..
You need to find ways to build resilience now- im being direct with you because you took a small piece of info and spiraled; medical school is full of ups and downs and you dont want to spiral during the down periods.
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In addition to these wise words, remember OP that by the time you graduate, the school will have sent out four more Classes, and so the reputation of the school should grow.
And looking at match lists is a fool's errand anyway. Matching is more on the student than the school.
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I had this experience when I bought a car recently...losing sleep over another car I thought I should have bought instead and feeling trapped with a car I didn't really want. Once I started driving the car and got used to it, I realized I was overreacting and the car I bought was fine. I think once you get to school and get engaged in the med school process, you will adjust and realize you are fine where you are at and will make it to a good place. Celebrate your accomplishment of getting in at all, too! And with less debt!
Thanks for the kind words everyone. I am definitely grateful to have the opportunity to do medicine at all, and intellectually I know whatever happens it will work out in the end. Emotionally, I just need some time to process everything so I'm thankful everyone is talking some sense into me.
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OP, whether or not you should be losing any sleep over this depends on what sort of sacrifice you made for that $150K.
You have control of your own fate within tiers of med schools. In general, med schools can be broken down into top 5, top 20, top 50, top 100, Unranked MD, Unranked DO, and IMG.
Unless you gave up a solid top 50 MD to attend an unranked DO school, I really wouldn't sweat it. If people from your school aren't matching, it's likely not due to stigma against the school from PDs. It's probably due to selection bias from students themselves or a lack of emphasis on opportunities that would make you competitive for those specialties, which you can easily overcome by seeking out opportunities yourself.
You have control of your own fate within tiers of med schools. In general, med schools can be broken down into top 5, top 20, top 50, top 100, Unranked MD, Unranked DO, and IMG.
Unless you gave up a solid top 50 MD to attend an unranked DO school, I really wouldn't sweat it. If people from your school aren't matching, it's likely not due to stigma against the school from PDs. It's probably due to selection bias from students themselves or a lack of emphasis on opportunities that would make you competitive for those specialties, which you can easily overcome by seeking out opportunities yourself.
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Remember OP, to get accepted to a competitive residency, you need to create a competitive application. This will be more about you than your school. You need to be a standout amongst standouts. You will need to have all the boxes checked. Research, high class rank, competitive board scores, great recommendations, preferably from a Dept Chair, and a solid interview. My wife was an elite student, top 10% in her class without much effort. These are the people you are competing with. If you meet the criteria for a competitive applicant, your school choice will matter much less. So get an early start with a mentor, involved with some research, and get the grades. Good luck and best wishes!
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OP if need be you can (and probably will feel the pressure to) take a research year for the super competitive specialties. That's an opportunity to go to a high power institute and really build your network. But lay the groundwork once you get used to the pace of the course load.
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Wise words
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I assume by "neuro" you mean neurosurgery.
If you actually mean neurology, you can match neurology coming from a school that does not have a neurology rotation; it'll take some advanced planning, though. If you do in fact decide to pursue neurology, post about it here during third year; people will help you.
As far as the other specialties go: it'll be tougher, but my class at a (mediocre) med school matched ~10% of graduates to derm, ortho, ophtho, plastics, and neurosurgery, as well as ENT, a specialty my med school doesn't have. Nothing is off the table. It'll take work, but you can do it.
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I’m a D.O. I have classmates who are now in surgery, neurology, and dermatology. It’s not impossible. You won’t regret saving $150K plus interest.
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Maybe it happened for a reason.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to change if it’s still possible, but if you can’t for some reason, try going into school with a positive attitude.
Even when applying for residencies, it may be difficult to determine which specialties will be in demand and which will not when you will be practice. For example, some have mentioned dermatology in earlier posts. Right now it is very competitive and tends to require a research year. However, this doesn’t mean it will have the same level of attractiveness in the future. At my derm appointment the other day (major academic hospital), I didn’t even have the opportunity to see a physician.
For another example, look at rad onc matches 10 years ago compared to today (unfilled). In less than a decade, an the outlook for an entire competitive specialty deteriorated. Same is true for EM to a lesser extent
The point of this comment is more to encourage you to pick a specialty that aligns with your interests rather than choosing something just because it is competitive.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to change if it’s still possible, but if you can’t for some reason, try going into school with a positive attitude.
Even when applying for residencies, it may be difficult to determine which specialties will be in demand and which will not when you will be practice. For example, some have mentioned dermatology in earlier posts. Right now it is very competitive and tends to require a research year. However, this doesn’t mean it will have the same level of attractiveness in the future. At my derm appointment the other day (major academic hospital), I didn’t even have the opportunity to see a physician.
For another example, look at rad onc matches 10 years ago compared to today (unfilled). In less than a decade, an the outlook for an entire competitive specialty deteriorated. Same is true for EM to a lesser extent
The point of this comment is more to encourage you to pick a specialty that aligns with your interests rather than choosing something just because it is competitive.
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The way out of this anxiety is acceptance that you may or may not have made the right choice. And that's okay. Now that I've made this choice, what can I do now to achieve my goals?
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There is a phenomenon I’ve seen in medicine where those who get to pick their destinations (whether its medical school, matching their number 1, etc) often feel some form of regret, “what if,” and “I made the wrong pick.”
Just trust you made your decisions for a sound reason and that things will work out. The worst thing you can do is let your feelings hurt your performance, because THAT will impact your ability to match competitively far more than the a school you’re going to.
Just trust you made your decisions for a sound reason and that things will work out. The worst thing you can do is let your feelings hurt your performance, because THAT will impact your ability to match competitively far more than the a school you’re going to.
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I will say, if you had chosen the other school you'd then be in the dilemma of "did I choose the wrong school? I'm 150k more in debt"
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You will be the 1st to match to a competitive specialty. Settle down, geez. Take life as it comes. YOu cant control every freakin thing.
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Also if by surgery, you mean general surgery then it is probably students opting to not Apply rather than not matching.
I thought general surgery was accessible to any USMD student who puts in a reasonable amount effort (ie average student)
I thought general surgery was accessible to any USMD student who puts in a reasonable amount effort (ie average student)
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Are they in programs that exclusively accept DO students?
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I am the only DO in an academic surgery program. I interviewed at many academic surgery programs, each of them with varying numbers of DO's. No, they aren't only in programs that exclusively accept DO students.
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As a recently graduated MD entering residency with 300k debt, I can say that there is sound logic to choosing to save 150k. Sure, that 150K difference isn't a life changing deal on an attending salary, but medical school involves substantial risk of taking on debt w/o ability to pay back. I know quite a few classmates who failed, quit, mental health challenges etc left with tremendous debt but no MD. I know others who hated medicine and dropped out. Some people quit or are fired from residency. As somebody who has their own doubts about medicine and would like the ability to quit, my debt keeps pushing me through. Having debt that can be managed without the MD and board certification is such a great thing.
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No (and that hasn’t existed for a few years now).
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General surgery, neurosurgery, and dermatology are vastly different. Which one are you interested in the most?
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Perhaps not explicitly, but the holdover programs primarily accept DO students in many cases.
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DOs may have entered Ortho, NSG, and more so in Dermatology, General Surgery, etc and I'm not talking 1 NSG/Ortho in the country but perhaps a handful per DO school...but just wanted to make sure no one took this as reason to choose DO school vs. an MD school even if cost difference is 150K especially if your interest is something like Ortho, NSG, etc. If your interest is FM, IM, Peds, Neuro, then that's a different question.
Perhaps poster is trying to maintain a positive outlook, but I just wanted to make sure people are clear on that and that DO bias exists.
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I agree with this. If you're that worried about debt, just do PSLF and work in an academic setting for 5 years after residency, problem solved. Just make sure to not take out private loans which are ineligible for PSLF. A few extra grand in cost isn't worth losing your specialty of choice.
As for OP, you are in the situation, all you can do at this point is maximize your chances. Find mentors, crush the boards, work as hard as possible, do aways when you can. It's not impossible, it's just a bit harder to get where you need to be.
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Agreed. i think you are better off going to PCOM than a new MD school. controversial i guess
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It’s ok. Just do a lot of research for those specialties try to get your name on some published studies and rock your exams and steps. You’ll be fine if you do that
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I’m sorry….I have zero sympathy for you. Every year thousands of students who are qualified motivated and dedicated to any specialty failed to get accepted to medical school despite being outstanding candidates. Apparently you were given multiple schools and acceptances to choose from and for that congratulations; however, I feel you made a great choice in choosing a less expensive option for your education no one needs to be in debt half million dollars when they graduate medical school.
As far as being worried about what specialty you are going to match into, you are going to be a first year medical student. Stop whining and focus on being a first year medical student and if you do well and make the right connections you will absolutely match into the competitive specialties that you want to match into. That has very little to do with the school and very much to do with you and only you.
I’m sorry if my comment stings a little, but I think you need to sit back and be grateful and not wine on a public forum about choosing a cheaper school and now worrying about not matching into a competitive specialty. Be grateful that you got excepted be grateful that you have an opportunity to graduate with less debt and now work your butt off to become the best residency candidate you can become!!!!
I would look at the fact that you’re attending a new school as an opportunity to help that school grow and help the future of that student body. You had every opportunity to make a different decision you didn’t now you’re stuck with it so move forward be the best student you can be and you will absolutely be successful. If you continue to get stuck in your head and focused on residency and you haven’t even started medical school yet that is absolutely a set up for failure.
(This message was created by voice to text…please excuse grammatical errors.)
I always hear school matters when matching, but I look at the Dermatologists, Cardiologists, Surgeons, ... near me, not too many of them came from top schools. I suspect that top schools help but not zero chance for average school students.
Personally, I think there must be a reason why you committed to that one school. At that moment, you wanted it. However, if you really regret it, I don’t think it’s not too late to reach out to the AAMC/AACOMAS and ask if you can make changes.
Some good advice re: don’t go into more debt than necessary, make your own specialty-based connections.
As someone on multiple adcoms, however, I strongly advise against the attitude that you don’t need to grind because “Step 1 is now P/F.” This is atrociously bad advice, because the people you’ll compete against *absolutely will grind* and you’ll be behind if you don’t take Step 1 very, very seriously.
A good longterm investment for the DO profession, but not necessarily good for individual DOs in shorterm.
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Let it sit. Having interests is not the same as knowing the day to day, the pros and cons. You want to be a surgeon with call or work in a clinic. Very different lifestyles.
Most surgeons would be incredibly bored with Derm. As a first year, remember, you don’t know what you haven’t experienced. Be open. Pave the way for the school.
Personally, I would take $150k debt over anything at a US school. Simple. Most schools are on the same level. You make your own destiny if you meet the metric.
Many student’s change, many. Not everyone want’s to live to work so they take different paths. Some people cannot work outside an OR. Other’s cannot stand the OR.
I had a classmate go from neuro surg to neuro. Many from surg to IM (with sub spec), several from fam/im to surg. Your experiences change your view.
Your experience, personality (which translates to great recs), ability to score well, and determination to open doors, will determine your path.
When you can pay off your loan in the first 6 years (including residency) you will be relieved.
However, it is your path, your gut instinct, your life. You make the call and make the most of it.
Most surgeons would be incredibly bored with Derm. As a first year, remember, you don’t know what you haven’t experienced. Be open. Pave the way for the school.
Personally, I would take $150k debt over anything at a US school. Simple. Most schools are on the same level. You make your own destiny if you meet the metric.
Many student’s change, many. Not everyone want’s to live to work so they take different paths. Some people cannot work outside an OR. Other’s cannot stand the OR.
I had a classmate go from neuro surg to neuro. Many from surg to IM (with sub spec), several from fam/im to surg. Your experiences change your view.
Your experience, personality (which translates to great recs), ability to score well, and determination to open doors, will determine your path.
When you can pay off your loan in the first 6 years (including residency) you will be relieved.
However, it is your path, your gut instinct, your life. You make the call and make the most of it.
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I think there is a very high probability that you made the right choice. It's human nature to look back on every big decision you make and wonder if it's the right one, and frankly, there's no way for you make an accurate assessment about this particular one yet. You just need to accept that for now and do everything in your power to ensure it will have been he right choice when you look back on it years from now. And at the very least, you will have a very real $150k more in your pocket to make up for any hypothetical shortcomings about your decision you may perceive in the future.
Take those savings and get yourself a drink with friends to celebrate the fact you got into med school!!!
Take those savings and get yourself a drink with friends to celebrate the fact you got into med school!!!
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I disagree 100%. The people who keep the end goal in mind and work backwards are typically the ones who are more successful…
Wow, I was just reading this thread out of curiosity about others' responses. I will be attending medical school in the Fall and your message was incredibly motivating for me. Happiness has always been very important to me. Of course, I know this will be tried and tested during medical school which I am prepared for. However, I really like how you talked about being happy with less and I think this would help a lot during the next four years and in life, generally.
Your choice to minimize your post-med school indebtedness was the correct one, as the economics of not earning/spending/not accumulating interest wealth for 7-10 years is significant. Know that you may well change your mind regarding specialization choice during school, or even during your internship as many of us did as soon as we saw 'what was really out there' ! (And today given the whole US medical climate, you may opt out of patient care and into industry entirely.) Getting quite close to your professors during school and heeding advice will go far with respect to what happens afterward. Put your efforts toward being a very good academic for now, and I think the rest will fall into place.
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That is because MDs do not rotate there. Once they do. Look out!
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The only thing that matters is that YOU get to the end in 4 years and YOUR name is on the diploma. The institutions name that goes along side is nothing more than a foot note. To paraphrase another post I read recently "we all end up teaching ourselves through anki anyway".... the days of great doctors only coming from certain schools are long over. Although the so-called T-10/20 want you to believe otherwise.
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I just wanted to add that if you’re worried about money (seeing how the specialties have nothing to do with each other really), it mainly comes to how much you invest one you reach a certain threshold rather than how much you make. There are probably plenty of doctors in “uncompetitive” fields or GP that make a quarter of what a neurosurgeon does, but are more wealthy due to putting away more money and making smart investments.
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Nobody is saying that one should turn down Harvard or Hopkins (or really any T20) just to save 100k or so. However, the debate becomes more murky when you get outside of the top 30 or 40ish schools.
Based on what I have seen, going to a Tufts, BU, USC tier school doesn’t give a big enough advantage to justify taking on an extra 150k. These are good schools but the names aren’t impressive enough (especially given local competition) to allow students to coast on pedigree. Harvard, Hopkins , UCSF etc. might even be worth more than 200k depending on the other school because the worst student at these schools can still match IM at BIDMC/HUP/BJH and then coast into a cardiology or gastroenterology fellowship.
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As someone else has mentioned above, if the admissions offer from your top choice school is still valid, you may still be able to switch! You will be losing the deposit money though (paid towards the currently committed school). Putting down multiple deposits at several schools is not recommended, but if you tell them your intentions, I’m sure they can replace with someone from their waitlist. Probably won't offend them a bit.
If you are kicking yourself thinking, “what have I gotten myself into?” something is not right.
Hurry! Before time runs out.
If you are kicking yourself thinking, “what have I gotten myself into?” something is not right.
Hurry! Before time runs out.
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I'd say the 150-200K extra is definitely worth it for UCSF/HMS/Hopkins tier if you're:
1) wealthy or don't mind paying the premium
2) want a strong research career (note: you'll be likely taking a large pay cut and working more hours i.e., Cardiology makes 400K+ in private practice but only around ~200K in academics in my area)
3) reasonably sure you want to apply to more selective residencies (think I-6, NSG, derm, plastics) AND the alternative school doesn't have a good track record of matching applicants into your desired specialty or lacks a home program
Many can still match into a solid academic IM program (top 30-40) from most mid-tier MD schools, HMS/Hopkins tier schools would definitely make it easier to match into top 10 programs, but whether or not it's worth it depends on future goals. If you want to be at the cutting edge of research and have a name in academia, prestige will matter at every step.
The truth is most premeds don't really know what they want until later in the training, so it's easier to pay the premium and have more options.
