I need help: when to apply for a UK reseidency spot..

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

gattasultetto

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hi! My name is Sere, I'm a last year medical student in Milan (Italy). I'm trying to find as much information as possible on UK medical training. I'm interested in a surgical residency and I'd like to know how hard is it for a foreign graduate to find a spot in general surgery. My DREAM is to become a trauma surgeon and there is no such fellowship in Italy. That's why I'd like to move to the UK, and I'd like to do it now, because honestly surgical training in italy is very poor. I have some difficulties understanding UK medical system. Can you help me? Will it be easier:
1) Start searching for a F2 (second year foundation programme) position and then apply for a general surgery residency?
2) Start residency in another country and then try to move to the UK after my first year of surgical residency? Will it be impossible?

PLEASE HELP. :confused: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Hi! My name is Sere, I'm a last year medical student in Milan (Italy). I'm trying to find as much information as possible on UK medical training. I'm interested in a surgical residency and I'd like to know how hard is it for a foreign graduate to find a spot in general surgery. My DREAM is to become a trauma surgeon and there is no such fellowship in Italy. That's why I'd like to move to the UK, and I'd like to do it now, because honestly surgical training in italy is very poor. I have some difficulties understanding UK medical system. Can you help me? Will it be easier:
1) Start searching for a F2 (second year foundation programme) position and then apply for a general surgery residency?
2) Start residency in another country and then try to move to the UK after my first year of surgical residency? Will it be impossible?

PLEASE HELP. :confused: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

You would have to apply for F1, not F2 unless your course includes an intern year? The national process for foundation is in October/November (can't quite remember) so that is when you apply. You have just as good a chance as any UK applicant, in theory anyway, if your language skills aren't perfect you are likely to score less well on the application than a UK grad. Surgical training is after 2 years and again you would be considered equal to a UK grad. It is very competitive at that stage but after another 2 years you reapply, at which point it is extremely competitive, most people wont get a job at that stage. We don't have a specialty called trauma surgery either you know?
 
Thank you very much. We have a sort of F1 in Italy and I've been told that it's easier to do the F1 in Italy (it starts right after graduation) and then move to the UK for the F2. But I'm wondering, does you or anybody know a resident in surgery (or another specialty as well) who managed to move to UK after having started his/her residency in another UE country? Is this possible?
Is surgery a very competitive residency? I'm asking you because in Italy it's not extremely competitive (due to the lifestyle, I suppose).
Trauma surgery is not a residency, it's a fellowship: it's something you do when you finish your general surgery residency.
It's not so easy to find information about UK medical schools and residencies. Is there any other forum like this one where I can talk to UK med students?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Thank you very much. We have a sort of F1 in Italy and I've been told that it's easier to do the F1 in Italy (it starts right after graduation) and then move to the UK for the F2. But I'm wondering, does you or anybody know a resident in surgery (or another specialty as well) who managed to move to UK after having started his/her residency in another UE country? Is this possible?
Is surgery a very competitive residency? I'm asking you because in Italy it's not extremely competitive (due to the lifestyle, I suppose).
Trauma surgery is not a residency, it's a fellowship: it's something you do when you finish your general surgery residency.
It's not so easy to find information about UK medical schools and residencies. Is there any other forum like this one where I can talk to UK med students?

You have to have done something equal to our F1 and be able to prove it is as good to apply for F2. There are very few stand alone F2 jobs anyway, you would be better off applying for F1 but you can only do that if you haven't completed equal training at home. I don't think it is very common to move half-way through training, why would you want to, it's disruptive. I'm pretty sure we don't have trauma surgery fellowships either, you can't do a fellowship if the specialty doesn't exist, who would you be doing it with? It's not called residency by the way. Surgery is incredibly competitive here and honestly if you are going on about wanting to do your F1 equivalent in Italy because it's easier then you shouldn't be a surgeon.

There isn't a site like this exactly for the UK, the only thing remotely similar is filled with 17 year olds applying to med school who will have no idea what you are talking about, you are probably better off here.
 
I didn't mean that I want to do my F1 in Italy because in UK it would be more difficult, it's just a matter of time schedule: in Italy it begins right after graduation. I'm going to get my degree in september and, even if you told me that I should apply in October/November in order to get an F1 spot, I don't know when exactly the F1 begins. I just don't want to stay with nothing to do for months. It's exactly the opposite of what you are thinking. Don't misjudge me: it's just not that easy when you have to decide whether or not to quit your country and family for work reasons and you don't have any information at all. Anyway I thank you for your advice. You've been kind.
 
Everything in the UK starts in August. If you switch countries at any point you will likely have to take time out. If you started F1 in Italy in September you wouldn't finish until September right? So that's too late to start a UK job, you absolutely couldn't start a foundation post a month late, it just wouldn't happen. If you want to stay in Italy then switch but don't want to take time out your only option would be to save up all your holidays and take the August off and then start in the UK. I'm not sure if that would be possible, or even legal to be technically employed by 2 hospitals in that way at the same time but I don't know how else you could do it.
 
F1 in Italy ends in february. It's not extremely useful, I don't think it would be like a UK F1 year so I wouldn't mind to retake my F1 in the UK since I don't think it would be a waste of time (but I don't know whether or not I can retake my F1 once I've already done it in Italy). Anyway briefly how do you apply for a F1 spot?
 
F1 in Italy ends in february. It's not extremely useful, I don't think it would be like a UK F1 year so I wouldn't mind to retake my F1 in the UK since I don't think it would be a waste of time (but I don't know whether or not I can retake my F1 once I've already done it in Italy). Anyway briefly how do you apply for a F1 spot?

If it ends in Feb we wouldn't consider it equal to ours so you would have to repeat it.

There is a national process for foundation, all are 2 year jobs now (a few years ago some weren't). At some point in the next couple of months you would have to confirm eligibility to apply. As a UK student it's not really something you need to think about, the school mostly takes care of it. I don't think it would be hard to sort out you just need to figure out who to talk to in your school about it.

Either just before or after this you generally register on the system online which just involves entering basic info, name, address etc.

After that a few months later the application form is released and you have a set time to do it in, it used to be a month, now it's about 10 days. The first couple of sections are for things like additional degrees, national presentations, national (first place only) prizes - if you have that stuff you enter the details.

Then there are the white space questions which count for half the points (50) of the whole application. There are 5 questions and you have to answer in either 150 or 200 words, I can't remember. The questions are pretty long. There might be a statement about something - like team working, you then have to use a clinical example to explain why it's important. That might sound easy but each question will have about 5 parts and there will be a lot more to it than that, I just can't really remember. In at least one question there will be a problem, maybe a colleague will have done something wrong, and you will have to say how you would deal with it, again there would be about 5 parts to each question.

The rest of the points come from your quartile - where you rank in your year, your school puts it on the system.

You then rank all the deaneries (areas) in the UK in order of preference.

No-one gets 100, it's not even possible without a PhD which most people don't have. Anything in the high 70s/80s or above was a good score this year, the highest I have heard of is 94. 59 was the minimum to get a job in the first round this year, below that you had to hope people dropped out to get a job.

Results are announced in December I think, online. At this point you get your overall score and find out your deanery. After this, the rest of what happens varies by deanery. Some will make you then rank hospitals and you will be allocated according to your score. Then you would rank individual jobs within an individual hospital. Other deaneries make you rank every job in every hospital in the deanery in preference order which is hundreds.
 
If it ends in Feb we wouldn't consider it equal to ours so you would have to repeat it.

I know a CT1 in surgery who finished her F1 in February at her homeland. It was accepted and she proceeded directly to F2 when she came to the UK.
 
I know a CT1 in surgery who finished her F1 in February at her homeland. It was accepted and she proceeded directly to F2 when she came to the UK.

Er... I Imagine there were some additional circs there, like she did twice the hours we do in the UK or something. Here if you take more than 4 weeks off in a year (on top of your holiday time) you fail, you are not allowed to pass the year, regardless of competency. We in fact had a huge lecture about it the other day, it is the GMC regulations, no way around it.
 
Ciao Sere,

I am from Milan too and moved to the UK to do Med School and I am now finishing F1. Who knows, I might know you from back home : )

My advise is to apply for F1 via MTAS - deadline is I think early October. The form consists of 8-10 questions relating to clinical scenarios (not testing your medical knowledge but more on the lines "I would need to show good communication skills/team work etc..". Then you rank deanerys. Once you have been accepted you can rank your jobs according to your score.

My advise is to get someone whose English is spotless to proofread it. Everyone here has consultants and junior doctors to check it.

Bear in mind that London and Severn (Bristol area) deaneries are usually the most competitive but this varies every year.

I think is ideal to start F1 because you get immediately in the system and start understanding from the very beginnning what you have to do to obtain a position in trauma & ortho. Most of the guys who apply for it will have done some kind of audit/research/pubblication/presentation related to the specialty. Therefore you have to ensure that you are competitive from the very begininning.

Then you have to think of taking your MRCS part A by Dec of F2 year (date of core surgical training application) + ensure you have done ATLS, ALS, BSS courses.

Hope this helps.
 
The form consists of 8-10 questions relating to clinical scenarios (not testing your medical knowledge but more on the lines "I would need to show good communication skills/team work etc..".

It's 5 questions.
 
Top