I don’t want to do ECs and the things I’m passionate about aren’t tangible. Am I screwed?

[Latteandaprayer]

I know there are probably 3,000+ posts about ECs in med school and here’s mine. I’m an M1 and not involved at all. I literally just do class. Outside of that I spend time with boyfriend, volunteer at a soup kitchen at most once a month (hard to get in, lottery system), and watch movies/read books. None of these can really go on my ERAS. We start clinicals next year (program is 1 year didactic and 3 on the wards), which means this is my main shot to get involved and I didn’t.

I go to a higher-tiered school in the Midwest, and I say that for context. Im not in research now, but I did research before med school and have two first-authors in basic science research. Are those even relevant when I apply?

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[GoSpursGo]

The answer to your latter question is yes, the first author pubs are definitely valuable.

I can't comment without knowing the specifics, but in general a major draw for these 1 year pre-clinical/3 year clinical schools is the flexibility that gives you to take a number of electives. Presumably that includes the option to take research electives, if you decide you're interested in a specialty that values research. You still have plenty of time

Finally, the very most important thing on your residency application is that you succeeded academically. As long as you're checking that box, you're fine.

 

[Styrene]

The only substantial EC I did in medical school was research. Published a full manuscript during med school but was work carried over from undergrad (third author in the end, long story), unrelated abstract and poster at a national meeting, and numerous other experiences/IRB that ended up becoming nothing other than experience and niche knowledge unfortunately. Then I did some teaching electives in MS4. And a med student mentoring program. That's it.

Did very well on Step 1, mediocre clinical grades relatively (around 45%ile, based all on shelf score), excellent comments, multiple very strong LORs. A lot of hobbies.

Red flag of DWI in 2010 (sober 11 years now).

Matched at top choice (higher mid-tier psychiatry).

So I tend to think someone will match in most fields with strong academic performance and testing and good LORs.

On the other hand, everyone I know who matched at "top" places or in very competitive fields (ENT, ortho, nsgy) had either multiple/many publications during medical school, numerous ECs (committees, student government, study abroad summer M1, etc), and/or perfect grades.

Just what I've seen.

 

[Lawpy]

I did research before med school and have two first-authors in basic science research. Are those even relevant when I apply?

Yes and list them for sure because basic science papers are absolute gold

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

volunteer at a soup kitchen at most once a month (hard to get in, lottery system), and watch movies/read books. None of these can really go on my ERAS.

All of these things can go on your ERAS!! Soup kitchen is a volunteer experience, and there’s a hobbies section for a reason

 

[Mass Effect]

It depends on the specialty you choose. In many specialties, you're fine. In some, you're screwed. Just depends.

As to your ECs, what kinds of books do you read? Almost any EC can be spun to to be valuable. Can you start a book club among your classmates. Even if they're non-medical books, this could be a wellness thing.

 

[HopelessMS]

Don't mean to hijack OP's thread, but can pre-matriculation volunteer experiences that were not continued while in medschool be placed in ERAS also or is ERAS only limited to ECs done while in medschool?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ex

Don't mean to hijack OP's thread, but can pre-matriculation volunteer experiences that were not continued while in medschool be placed in ERAS also or is ERAS only limited to ECs done while in medschool?

Except for research, pre med school is meaningless.

Non research ECs done in med school is also almost meaningless anyways.

 

[Lawpy]

Ex

Except for research, pre med school is meaningless.

Non research ECs done in med school is also almost meaningless anyways.

Eh i wouldn’t go that far. It’s regularly reported that work experiences from high school and college days are pretty highly valued at several programs. Even Eagle Scout is highly praised at several programs in some specialties

 

[GoSpursGo]

Eh i wouldn’t go that far. It’s regularly reported that work experiences from high school and college days are pretty highly valued at several programs. Even Eagle Scout is highly praised at several programs in some specialties

I wouldn’t really consider a job to be an EC, but point well taken—work history is relevant. Eagle Scout is also fine. I mostly meant the nonsense volunteering things that every premed does, but there are a couple of exceptions.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Nobody cares that you flipped burgers and can make the best skinny mocha Frappuccino enema on the planet…

 

[Ganon]

One of my largest EC's is totally non-medical, but it was a huge connection with multiple interviewers. I've said it a million times on this site, but being notable is more important than being excellent when you're trying to stand out in a pile of amazing applicants.

 

[deleted1106140]

Are EC's done before medical school weighed a lot less than EC's done during medical school?

 

[ortnakas]

All of these things can go on your ERAS!! Soup kitchen is a volunteer experience, and there’s a hobbies section for a reason

This. Research is key if you want something competitive but honestly it felt like interviewers were happy to have other things to talk about instead of just academics. I’m a few years out of residency apps (thankfully) but I remember getting asked about something in the hobbies section pretty much every interview.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

What is weighed more by PDs: a career changer with significant job history with extensive leadership in said jobs or research pre-med/in medschool regardless of residency competitiveness?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

What is weighed more by PDs: a career changer with significant job history with extensive leadership in said jobs or research pre-med/in medschool regardless of residency competitiveness?

This is a tough question and I think you will get a lot of questions why you changed jobs. That being said, if you spin it right, it can be viewed as a unique strength that demonstrates maturity.

 

[Lawpy]

What is weighed more by PDs: a career changer with significant job history with extensive leadership in said jobs or research pre-med/in medschool regardless of residency competitiveness?

This is a tough question and I think you will get a lot of questions why you changed jobs. That being said, if you spin it right, it can be viewed as a unique strength that demonstrates maturity.

Honestly i’d say the job/career changer wins out pretty handily but that’s largely because most med student research (even including research done as premed) is pretty much crap. At least with a job, there’s a lot of interesting and unique things to talk about

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

What is weighed more by PDs: a career changer with significant job history with extensive leadership in said jobs or research pre-med/in medschool regardless of residency competitiveness?

I think both of these candidates could do very well, but it will depend on the specialty and type of program. Very research focused academic programs will likely favor the latter, but many other programs may favor the former (or both equally).

 

[Chelsea FC]

I did every EC under the sun and had great research . My favorite dish to cook from my culture that I briefly mention on my application was hands down the most common question I got next to “why X specialty” or “why our program”. All that work and all they were interested in was my dish hahahaha 😅

 

[GoSpursGo]

Are EC's done before medical school weighed a lot less than EC's done during medical school?

Except for research, ECs done prior to med school are irrelevant (with the same caveat as above that a job isn't an EC in my book, and there are certainly some exceptional experiences which could still carry weight--my point is that the vast majority of your run of the mill ECs like soup kitchen volunteering become irrelevant)

What is weighed more by PDs: a career changer with significant job history with extensive leadership in said jobs or research pre-med/in medschool regardless of residency competitiveness?

No doubt, prior work history with leadership experience is hugely valuable. But my question would be why is this an either/or proposition? The competitive specialties that require research as a way to "proving your commitment" to the field would still expect you to jump through the hoops. and if the career-changer would take some time like other med students to check that box then I imagine they would be a highly competitive applicant.

I also agree with @Ganon 's point that once you have checked all of the requisite boxes (grades, step scores, research, etc), then having something notable or memorable definitely elevates an app. Prior work/real-world experience is an excellent example.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Well, I posed the question as an either/or because as a career-changer myself, my main goal is to become a physician and residency competitiveness is not high on my list of factors to consider. I didn't do research in medschool so was concerned whether not my upcoming app will be discounted sans research...

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well, I posed the question as an either/or because as a career-changer myself, my main goal is to become a physician and residency competitiveness is not high on my list of factors to consider. I didn't do research in medschool so was concerned whether not my upcoming app will be discounted sans research...

It just depends on the specialty you're applying to. You won't get into derm/surgical subspecialty without research, but for sure you can get a good IM residency if the rest of your app is solid.

 

[mvenus929]

Well, I posed the question as an either/or because as a career-changer myself, my main goal is to become a physician and residency competitiveness is not high on my list of factors to consider. I didn't do research in medschool so was concerned whether not my upcoming app will be discounted sans research...

Though I'm now 8 years out from MS4 (so grain of salt and all that), I didn't do any research in medical school, and actually didn't start any meaningful projects until my second year (of 3) in residency.

Research is very important to top programs. If your goal is to be a clinician (or clinician educator), then you'll likely go to a program that itself is not focused on research, so you should be fine.

 

[labtech312]

It just depends on the specialty you're applying to. You won't get into derm/surgical subspecialty without research, but for sure you can get a good IM residency if the rest of your app is solid.

I am kind of in the same boat. I am a career changer that is about to be a father and start medical school at the same time. I imagine I will not have much time for research or other ECs. However, I will participate in some service learning opportunities and my usual hobbies to maintain my sanity. If I excel academically and do the minimal ECs that I can, I should be good to match into a respectable IM or IM-Peds residency?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am kind of in the same boat. I am a career changer that is about to be a father and start medical school at the same time. I imagine I will not have much time for research or other ECs. However, I will participate in some service learning opportunities and my usual hobbies to maintain my sanity. If I excel academically and do the minimal ECs that I can, I should be good to match into a respectable IM or IM-Peds residency?

Sure. Though I would only do the volunteering if you legitimately enjoy it. It does very little to elevate your app.

 

[calivianya]

Well, I posed the question as an either/or because as a career-changer myself, my main goal is to become a physician and residency competitiveness is not high on my list of factors to consider. I didn't do research in medschool so was concerned whether not my upcoming app will be discounted sans research...

You've got good responses already but I thought I'd just mention that it's not too late to check the box if you still want to or think you need to for whatever reason.

You can knock out a case study in one weekend, and follow it up with 10 minutes of googling to see what virtual conferences you could possibly present at so you can get credit for the case study and a presentation without ever leaving your house. I got one of mine in March of third year - had it written up and slapped in premade powerpoint template in two days with a friend who needed to pad her CV, and she presented it for us virtually since I already had a presentation on my CV. The nice thing about virtual conferences is that they often give you a specific time that you need to present, so you really only have to be logged on for an hour or less unless you just want to attend the rest of the conference.